Well done. :thumbsup

And that is exactly what happened. It keeps getting worse.

Yep. I've heard people saying the good old days are gone since I got into this business in '99. LOL It's all relative I suppose.

Traffic will always gravitate to free content. Someone will always provide that to attract/retain traffic.

This was true in 1997, it is true today.

There was never a bottle and never a genie.

I am not bashing you champ. You know I love both you and Robbie. That doesn't mean we always agree. I was just seeing a lot of celebrations of late, and with what I see out there in the marketplace, I am not sure there is a lot of diversity left.

:)

ADG

You have to be pro piracy posting shit like this, idiot!

Very true.

Ten years ago, there were a few real corporate sites, and a ton of porn. Now everyone, and everything is on the net. There is more things for a surfer to do in the limited online time they have per day. The credit markets and surfers mentality was different as well.

That is why I think that even if you COULD stop all of the Oron, forum, file locker type stuff, you still have so many other variables for the online market place, I am not sure it would make a dent in the grand scheme of things.

With all of that being said, I am not bashing anyone. I am really just curious in regards to all of the celebrations lately and what people realistically think it will bring to their bottom lines in the near future.

/sarcasm


:winkwink:

I think surfers would see something that might break their resistance, and they would scour the internet for it, and they'd be unable it find it for free, or anything very like it. After enough times, their resistance might break. Once broken, they have a better chance of buying again.

I suppose that depends on a lot of factors.

I will concede it's possible in the older demographic. If I see something that strikes my fancy, I will go check out their site or clip store and typically make a purchase. Sadly, there are many many many times where there is no watermark or details on the clip. So that person or company is losing out on those of us who are happy to pay for quality porn.

I would bet that if you had all the tube sites providing grainy, crappy, content for free... you would stand a better chance of enticing memberships. People would be more interested in the quality. Same if you pulled a real player every 30 seconds with "buffering". You would frustrate people into paying.

Now that is a novel concept I agree, as the next tube site owner down the line who is just selling traffic would provide 100% HD, full length, fast loading content because he doesn't give a shit about converting memberships. He's all about traffic.

I don't think so, specially with the free sites. Uniqueness is being lost, but some things can be changed to access new possible clients.

:thumbsup

The quality of the porn is better today than it's ever been. The deals available to customers today are the best they've ever been. The product you get for the price you pay is an attractive offer to customers I believe.

The only problem is that you can get much of the same thing from free sites, so the only people who are willing to pay are either very interested in quality, or feel some moral obligation to buy instead of pirate, or perhaps are scared of using free sites because of viruses and stuff. Also, the guy who has money and it's nothing to make a purchase.

People won't stop jacking off if the amount and availability of free porn decreases, and I think they'll buy once it becomes more work, hassle, or carries risk to pirate vs pay.

When that day comes, I truly believe we'll see a significant increase in sales.

Porn is not a utility. It's a luxury item. It's the first to go and first to come back. Free porn has been around since the dawn of the internet... You know, back in the BBS days? In fact, the free porn model has been around LONGER than the paid model. Don't think for a second that it's killing the industry. It INVENTED the industry!

Those of you who are sitting around sulking about the Good Old Days obviously haven't been inventing anything new that makes money or testing new markets. Good luck with that venture!

I agree with Rochard 110% on this. It will never be the same but i do think if the world would get back on its feet we should see some sort of a turn around in joins. Still this is just me hoping. Who knows whats really going to happen or the next new thing to make it easier to get free porn.

Put out quality content and you will get joins. Recycle it and suffer the life of tubes.

Will you ever return to the golden age of million dollar affiliates...

The glory days are long gone, that's why there are referred to as such. File lockers, free content and tubes are not the only reasons those days are gone, let us not forget the get rich quick billing schemes, card bangers, shitty member areas that haven't been updated since 1985.

However with the file lockers and such being killed off, sales will definitely increase, especially for those programs who proactively search out for and keep their content from being given out in full on tubes/torrents/forums ect... That and those who specialize in micro niches or offer unique content that isn't offered on 100 other cookie cutter pay sites.

By killing off the piracy business model, there will be a large number of seeders/uploaders who will no longer take their time to upload and provide the content as they are no longer getting paid by the file lockers for doing so and providing links/traffic and upgraded downloaders. It wouldn't surprise me if a large number of 'affiliates' were the ones uploading the pirated content themselves.

As for your discovery of 100 sites with the same content, same text and same looks all pushing the same thing, hopefully google slaps them down and makes them irrelevant. This is something I have been guilty of myself and I'm currently working on a rebuild of my network using all hand written, unique updates and working with programs to get unique non saturated content samples to use. It's a slow process, but as I see my traffic, click thrus increase monthly, even if only by a small %, I know it will be worth the time and effort. My worse mistake ever in this business, was letting my personal network sit dormant for months.

i started in online porn last September and im only seeing my sale's increase, i don't understand why people moan all the time about the good old days fuck i dont even make that much per month. Also with the amount of money people spend on things like cams is crazy i don't think porn is dead.

I was around running at the beginning and I hope that i am here at the end.

Mobile devices, streaming and the cloud will end the internet as we know it today.

Just try and keep the pirates out of the cloud and you might survive the long-term; otherwise, I hope that I am still here to turn out the lights when there is nobody left.

Bingo. And the best way to sell luxury items is via lifestyle marketing. LELO gets it. They're doing some absolutely brilliant things with their marketing.

http://en.lelo.com/

That sounds nice. But "industrialization" isn't what happened. Everybodies content being stolen, given away, monetized by pirates, and thus DEVALUING paysites is what happened.

STEALING is NOT "industrialization" and it really isn't comparable in any way.

Just because Fabian popped up on the scene and magically had a hundred million dollars to buy up shit and use stolen content/piracy to continue bringing in the revenue does NOT mean "industrialization"

It's easy to do when you don't have to actually earn the money and then build something from the ground up. :)

Stealing isn't a business model.

When you turn out the lights...I'll be that cockroach still alive and kicking and scurrying across the kitchen floor making money. heh-heh

Long gone.

Even Manwin can't beat culture. And the culture today for porn is free.

Why should they, they're not important to them. The buyer is.

For 99% of this industry that's out of their scope.

"Traffic" was the most expensive and fucked up king this industry could of created. It was over priced, rules over customers and let affiliates run the selling of the product.

It resulted in for most sites a bad customer experience because the sites were more interested in a good affiliate experience. It also created the culture of free porn. Screaming at piracy is like screaming at the clouds. The freeloads on Oron will not start buying in huge amounts, they will go to Tube sites and the sales off ads from them won't increase that well.

To sell to a repeat buy market you have to have a product worth repeat and not a better customer experience from any free source.

As a content producer, I 1000 percent fucking agree! :2 cents::thumbsup:2 cents::thumbsup

For the 90% on this board peddling the same old shit sites yeah it is over.

For those selling new stuff.. mo money mo money.

I keep making more money each month so keep wishing we affils will die but in reality we will just leave your tired, lame ass progs behind for greener pasteurs.

Waaaaahhhhhhh my shit sites no longer sell LOL

I doubt if the 90% is high enough.

If it's the same new porn stuff as the old stuff it won't work.

For most in this business, greener pastures are in another line of work. Online adult supported too many lame for too long. Now the cull has started.

But yeah in general the vast majority of this biz is fucked in the ass.

YOUR shit no longer sells cause it is free on a TON of RIP sites.

So YEAH in general the affil has nothing to promote in adult but "no sell" SHIT that is priced at $12.99 for 1000 sites on RIP sites instead of $29.99 for YOUR few shit sites.

Which were mostly shit to begin with. The very best sites still sell in adult but that is MAYBE 10 % and they are also dieing FAST unless they have something that cant be given away easily.

I agree with all 3 points Paul.

There is still ways to make profit but it takes time and it is way harder to do in mass ie buying traffic. Putting up a link list or one size fits all site is dead. Has to be highly targeted in most cases which is a problem for Joe Affil.

Oh well move to the hinterlands, become an affil and live large for 2k a month :) like a king for 3K. That can still be done :)

I never forget when I joined a fetish site promoted on this board (recurring thru ccbill) and it had 100-150 vids LOL

No wonder!

:upsidedow :upsidedow :upsidedow :upsidedow

Yes this is a recession. Offline porn used to be recession proof, because it's a cheap bit of relief. Now it's a free relief so no need to pay for it.

Then it will be further fucked. Traffic follows content, make it free and it will go there. Pay out millions to make loads more free. :upsidedow :upsidedow :upsidedow

Also for some doing it in house is cheaper. 900+ employees. How much traffic does that generate?

Blaming piracy is a red herring. These guys downloading pirated site would just get their porn fix from Pornhub if there was no piracy.

Downloading 1000 or even 100 sites is enough porn for a life time. Pornhub makes the $12.99 a pointless spend. Unless you have to have HD.

Also figure this in. For $30 a moral member he can download a years supply of porn from one site, $30 a year?????

With hindsight we can all see how this business was fucked. Crap product, over priced product, customer experience secondary to affiliate experience, shady practices and tons and tons of free porn in any guise being given away every day.

Even today few have the money of the brains to really think like businessmen. There are a lot of DVD companies with an excellent unique product who are struggling. Yet sites continue to churn out the same cheap repetitive shit product day after day. When they could walk into one of these companies, put the money on the table and buy them out. But that needs brains and investment money. MW are starting to do it more than you think.

Anyhow, like that hasnt been said before but that is the facts Jack.

12.99 for entire rips from Kink to Naughty Am to EVERY major prog and every major site.

Strangely it is the major progs who are mostly ripped off. A few mom and pops are still avoiding these sites for whatever reason and fetish is still your best bet unless it is on YT which is most every thing but pissing hehe

foot, bondage and tranny used to be the BEST selling fetishes. Now they are the worse cause of one thing: YT

Folks would rather have lots of non nude amateur than a bit of staged, all shot in the same bedroom nude shit.

Simple economics. The buyer is buying (or not) the best deal on the shelf.

Guess it was all inevitable that code writers would find a way to fuck this biz in the ass and there would be those daring enough to risk the wrath of the adult industry in 2006.

Some wrath.

I cant disagree on any of that.

In 1999 I put up 10 pics on a site that I think belonged to Suze Randall. Cant remember for sure. Female producer from Florida. I got a c&d lol and removed them like now. Cause she wasnt kidding and back then I had something to lose. Now she can kiss my ass lol (for other reasons :) )

But yeah it is a sorry state for affils in general in porn. But someone is ALWAYS getting it done. Just not very damn many.

When the major progs let it all go for free it was then about over in general.

Type in "free yoursite.com rip" .. pretty rediculous. You dont think the young savvy gen today doesnt know it is all free?

So the major progs who all sold out (or cant police their content) still make money on tons of free traffic but for how long? While we the affil get fucked.

Yet I DONT blame them. We all do what is best for us and that is now best for them.

I almost joined a rip site myself the other day cause it is a way better deal.

So build a rip site I guess.

Only place I disagree :) Dl speeds are way faster with less hiccups. I find these big sites to be very surfer unfriendly which is good I guess except there are those ripping content like there was no tomorrow and putting up mega paysites with 1000 plus sites from 100 progs or more for maybe 10 bucks.

Which is why I feel a fairly large majority have indeed went to the $12.99 model for 1000 sites. Why wouldnt they? They want one thing: Videos. They get way more. all the same to them.

I should post the list of sites on one rip site I seen. I wont but many rip sites are actually networks making it even better for the $12.99 buyer. Yet noone seems to be doing shit to stop them.

No wonder EVERYONE hates everyone around here. Soilidarity is non existant in adult since about 1999.

Every dog (or cat) for themselves.

All content is just SHIT to be stolen I guess at this point IF an affil wants to "join the game".

Sure a few content owners here (maybe 10% of the industry) wont like me anymore but then most never did or could care less.

To play by the rules now days is a suckers game and a losing cause for Joe Affil.

one day, you'll look, to see i've gone

but tomorrow may rain so



i'll follow the sun

(just one :) after all this, gotta keep my Karma golden :) )

That wasn't directed towards you, as I know you just asked a question. It was directed to those who continually say people who fight piracy think the glory days will return. But the irony of it all is, THEY are the only ones talking about the glory days returning.


I don't fight them to make a difference in the grand scheme of things. I fight them to make a difference for me.


Porn is for guys to jack off to. Nothing more, nothing less. If they can get it for free, they will. If they have to pay, they will. Whatever is easier for them will win and whoever has their fantasy will get their click. It's not rocket science.

Then there are those of you who bring up the "porn has always been free" theory. Yes, you could always find free porn somewhere if you knew where to look. But most people didn't know where to look back in the BBS days and search engines did not favor sites giving away porn. If you didn't know where to look, you were not finding large amounts of free porn. BBS guys are the same geeks who moved on to torrents and never paid for porn in the first place. I'm more concerned about the new people getting online for the first time and hitting google looking for something I sell, but they can't find it because of 10 pages of tubes giving away everything for free.

This is a massive difference than the "old days" of free porn.

Yea, they have. They turned to piracy, card banging, and other illegal or unethical ways of making money.

You started in September of last year and you don't understand what people moan about? How many sales did you make last month? How many hours did you have to to work to make them? Whatever that number is, it used to be incredibly easy to make that many and more in a single day, with only working 1/4 of the amount of time you did. That is why they moan.

It is now. :Oh crap

And not only has stealing become a business model, it has become a celebrated business model.


Many micro-niche and fetish sites are small and lower content amounts are fine with members so long as they update. They are the sites still selling and rebilling today. You can't compare them to BanBros with 1000s of videos, because with the exception of a few sites, most of the sites are small, and their customers know that.

100% true. Maybe why Currently Sober's thread on "making money on a micro niche" is in the top 30 most viewed threads ever. Just noticed that :)

There is a ton of fetish like foot and bondage not on the tubes or on file lockers so yeah IF you do fetish right as some of you do, yours is the only place to find true fetish done right. And folks will buy.

micro! micro! micro! :winkwink:

I guess just teens, tits and babes are mostly dead which I could never sell anyhow. :)

BTW, LOVE the quote. Whenever I feel like running and hiding I remember that quote seriously :)

To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.- Elbert Hubbard

one of the BEST guys in adult DWB :thumbsup

Seriously.

Which is why there are maybe as many as 100 million surfers on a few porn tube sites every day. :Oh crap

:upsidedow :upsidedow :upsidedow

Yes people were giving away free murals in the year 100 BC. :1orglaugh

Tell that to the mafia. Pirate Bay, etc.

Ya want to know the real secret of this biz? Since I am in a good mood :) Hasnt changed since 1997.

One secret: Build sites.

Simple as that. Give it your best and hope 2 of 3 stick which they should. I have never built a site and had it not make money.

Micro niche. Build sites and hope Google loves you soon and long time.

Build sites. Simple as that. Build like a mofo.

Go and sin no more.

And try (as I have) not to waste too much time here :) That's a hard fucker to do cause this shit's more fun :) and time consuming :( but necessary in this mostly solitary biz :)

Paul Markham + Vjo

/thread

Seems to be that way.
:Oh crap

There was a good decision going there for a spell on the different perspectives.

I hear ya. No doubt the major tubes have a ton. :( "why buy porn" as Howard Stern says. So I guess it isnt a "I dont have the money".

Fuck them dirty pornographers from making a living is the attitude YET he has every porn star in the book on his show. Maybe someone needs to explain where HIS bread is buttered.

Thank God for JD who buys cams LOL And Howard gives him shit for that. That is bad advertising I am telling you. Mr Skin gets some paid love but that is all. IF he stated he bought memberships to great sites (no commercial) it WOULD put millions more in the industry.

BTW on these rip sites the free link says "I dont have the money so let me DL free" Your waiting time is 4 mins.. then 30 mins.. then 2 hours. :) Smart marketing from these thiefs. Ballsy and smart. A winning combo :upsidedow

For the record, I still (since Suze Randall) have not published one stolen pic for profit.. still old school but that may soon change. Tired of being poor :)

Sorry man. Just the nightshift shooting the bull. Noone awake. The stage is all yours.

BTW I think Paul and I made some good points so fuck you asshole.

I already know you dont like affils blah blah which going back to my first post (and why I orig posted) shows that I AM making more every month in porn so fuck you again :)

Sorry to post in your thread.

God! Fucken dickheads.

I have been in this biz since Oct 1996 BF. How bout you. You as someone who goes back should apprce my perspective. Markham the same.

I hope it becomes cool to hate Vjo cause I will drill some asses if that happens. :)

Have a vid assholes.

I said one but that comment BF was uncalled for..



fuck you and fuck you too

like I care