d-null

like these guys do in Ukraine, are you allowed to put a video camera pointed at the cop and openly videotape in America when they pull you over?



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Quentin

By law, the answer to this question varies, state by state.

As a matter of what the U.S. Dept of Justice (a federal entity) thinks, the DOJ weighed in just about a week ago to say that the First Amendment does, in fact, ensure that citizens have such a right, at least when the police are conducting their actions in public.

When the police conduct is taking place outside of public view, it becomes a more complicated question.

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Ayla_SquareTurtle

Also, good luck finding a cop who knows the laws of the state he works in. You may find your camera taken and destroyed even if you were 100% in the right.

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seeandsee

Then use wireless cam and store in a "safe memory place" inside car, later you can use it on court even if they destroy cam...

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Tom_PM

I'm thinking that it's going to be hard to sell to a police officer who doesn't want to be videotaped that "hey it's my right".. You could be as right as rain but someone else has the baton, the tazer, the gun, and the sense of superiority to convince you otherwise.

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~Ray

inside a vehicle is private property... even if it is on public roads. That is why they cannot search your vehicle without your permission.

So, yes, you can film from inside your car.

~Ray
www.hardlinks.org

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garce

Cops know about as much about the law as my dog knows about physics. Actually, my dog knows a LOT about physics - just don't ask him to take a written test.

ottopottomouse

They love putting on a performance in front of their own dashcam, would be hypocritical to object.

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sperbonzo

You can video legally, but there are some cops that are just ignorant asshats. Best bet is to get the www.Qik.com app on your phone, then stream the video to the internet. That way, even if they do destroy or take your phone, they can't touch the video, and video showing them doing that kind of illegal strong arming makes for good court room drama....



.

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zerovic

of course you can..

http://www.mindcrap.com/index/video/...ty-compilation

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u-Bob

MrCain

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onwebcam

My friend just went to court today on multiple claimed traffic violations. He rides a motorcycle in a small town and the cops are always harassing him. He now rides around with a cam on his helmet. He videoed his last harassment stop where there were around 5-6 cops involved including the sheriff and Highway Patrol. The judge watched the video and tossed everything out. The cops always seem to "lose" their video's so judges actually love it when an "offender" brings one in.

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SilentKnight

Oddly enough - to avoid the need to videotape police officers - obey the laws and don't give them excuse to pull you over.

In an age of rampant stupidity that escalates geometrically on a daily basis - it's a novel approach many should try.

onwebcam

Yeah because we all know the cops are always in the right. The perfect citizens. They wouldn't pull anyone over without probable cause.

Are you aware that the lights on a police car are intended for emergencies only? Since when is a rolling stop an emergency?

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Robbie

Hell no they won't let you do that. It may or may not be legal from state to state...but here in the "free" United States of America, the govt. has given our cops complete control over us.

If a cop pulls you over and you question him...you're in trouble. If you "lie" to a cop you can be arrested! If you use naughty words...arrested.
They can search you and your car. If you don't OBEY every word they say...they can arrest you.
And if you took a video camera and started filming them? They will tell you to stop. If you don't...then you just broke the law that says you have to OBEY them.

It's no wonder that so many cops are beating people and killing people. They have way too much power.

Even back in the 1980's I stood and argued (loudly and with many curse words) with cops down in Miami and Ft. Lauderdale (where I lived at that time).
These days? I wouldn't dream of arguing with a cop. They will fuck you up.

It's total bullshit. And the cops here need to have some of their power reigned in.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

BIGTYMER

Hide the camera. Problem solved.

SilentKnight

Point to where I said cops were "perfect citizens".

They aren't. No one's saying that here.

I'm saying if you obey the laws you greatly diminish the chance of being pulled over.

"Intended"?

Is this based on your vast knowledge of policing and law enforcement?

Really? So cops can't use them to attract attention during road closures, parades and a host of other functions and reasons they need them for?

As a bylaw enforcement supervisor - I work with cops on a daily basis. I'm willing to wager they'd give you prompt contradiction.

I'm lost as to your attempted point here.

In 47 years I've only been pulled over for traffic stops on legit reasons. Guess I must be lucky.

BlackCrayon

You know its not always that cut and dry, you're smarter than that.

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SilentKnight

Again...we're not talking absolutes here.

Yes, there are exceptions...no denying that.

I'm saying the vast majority of the time - if you're obeying the law and not giving them reason to pull you over...they generally won't.

As for videotaping officers during a traffic stop - the video footage can easily be post-edited later with omissions to alter the context and reality of the incident. We see examples of that on YouTube all the time - footage that is selectively edited and/or taken out of context to intentionally make law enforcement look like the bad guys.

sandman!

in IL you cant...

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L-Pink

I don't believe that is correct any more.

.

raymor

Until recently, we understood that the whole friggin point of the first admendment was so the citizens could keep on eye on, and publicly discuss, government officials such as cops.

In the last few years, many people have been arrested for videotaping cops and courts have upheld convictions. I think it's part of a larger phenomenon of people forgetting who works for who, who is supposed to be in charge here. Government employees are supposed to work for the citizens, not the other way around. I think we forget that when we support government leaders who say they'll give us stuff. That implies that it's the government's stuff to "give". Thing is, we made it or earned it - it's OUR stuff. Government can't give us stuff, they can only take our stuff because it's OUR stuff. I try to keep that in mind, that any politician who proposes to give me stuff must have it backwards and think the politicians are in charge, not the people.

Nikki_Licks

Oh gawd, I love that....thanks for the link

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foulfowl

I mentioned before how I was shooting photos of a model for one of my sites and recorded the police officers roll up on us. They confiscated my vehicle and saw me recording them and confiscated my cameras as well. Laughed at me when I told them I've been earning my living solely from shooting porn for my websites over the past 2 years. https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1066...light=foulfowl



Here's just one of the many other times I was pulled over for DWB and let go. Bottomline is I record everything. I have an attorney handling the first situation and some media has started contacting me. http://foulfowl.net/pulledover1018.wmv

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d-null

did the cops say anything specifically about you recording them? or was it just that they confiscated the cameras due to the porn?

BIGTYMER

I record the Border Patrol all the time. They ignore it, hide or say please don't record my face and so I don't.

foulfowl

The assholes didn't tell me why they were taking my cameras. My porn isn't illegal. They really fucked up by fuckin' with me. I'm not letting this shit go. Been trying to reach Jesse & Al or Gloria. Watch for me in the news. Same shit happen to me in Miami but the cops there understood what the deal was when I showed them my websites on my cellphone. They were asking for free passwords and let me go. http://foulfowl.com/stopped.wmv
&
http://foulfowl.com/eleven10.wmv

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FOULFOWL.BIZ

galleryseek

Yeah, never question authority, accept the state, accept big brother, they're in the right because they have black uniforms, submit to them, etc...

Awesome pawn you've become.

EddyTheDog

Well that explains a lot....

"bylaw enforcement supervisor"

We call them anal retentives over here.

onwebcam

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AliceInBondageLand

Filming the cops is one of the only things we can do. Get good at slipping the data cards out of your camera when they roll up, confiscating cameras is just one more way they flex muscles.

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PR_Glen

who cares if its legal or not, you really want to go around pointing shit at cops? I would suspect it would be bad for ones health...

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The Duck

That is sad and funny at the same time

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d-null

the point of the thread is about recording the police when they pull you over, by putting a camera in plain view on the dash pointed at the window

Ron Bennett

If one is going to install cameras in their car for the purpose of recording traffic stops, install two! One that's clearly visible and another that's hidden aimed at the first. And of course both cameras should be auto-uploading to the net for extra security.

None of that will stop an officer from arresting someone / seizing the cameras, but will make taking legal action much easier - in particular, suing the department.

To digress a bit, many people don't realize the police officers personally often have legal immunity, including civil lawsuits for actions that occur in the course of doing their job (that can even include off-duty in some instances) - so trying to get an officer arrested / fired will likely be an exercise in futility. Something to keep in mind when determining how far to push the envelope - expect monetary damages from the department at best.

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Lykos

I don't think so...

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epitome

I swear I can't go a week without reading an article about one or more Broward cops getting in trouble. Last week it was one arrested for witness tampering to protect another officer.

Robbie

It's that way in every town. The Supreme Court and the local govts have given them too much power.

If you put a gun and a badge on somebody and tell them they have absolute power over people...human nature will cause you to start abusing that power.

Yes, if they beat the shit out of you (or even kill you) and it goes to court they will be found to be in the wrong. But it doesn't help you if you are in the hospital or the morgue in the meantime.

And then...even if they DO kill you or hurt you badly...majority of the time they get a slap on the wrist. Suspended with pay. Or maybe even...~gasp~...lose their job!

If any of us pulled a person over, told them to shut up when they asked a question, ordered them about like children, detained them on the scene for several minutes, demanded they answer any question we asked, and then killed them...
We would be on death row.

Cops know that ain't gonna happen to them. The cops, the DA, and the Judges are all friends and work together every day on legitimate cases. When a cop beats the shit out of somebody (not on video) or shoots somebody...they close ranks to protect their own.

That's why they do NOT want citizens videotaping them. At that point it gets on the news and then the court is forced to take action against them.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

Tom_PM

Interesting
http://www.pixiq.com/contributors/248
stuff

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suesheboy

In many cases you can video with no sound legally.

One day dashboard cams will be required on all vehicles. I would assume insurance companies will push this point. Who knows, maybe a black box that records details.

Some states the secret recording of inhumane treatment of animals in order to expose abuse is illegal.

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brassmonkey

their public servants. yes you can film them on duty. dont follow them home.

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Tom_PM

Oh I think black boxes have been standard for quite some time. For instance used in cases where you hit a pedestrian and claim the brakes didnt work.. they'll simply pull the data and see if you ever hit the brakes, and at what time, and for what duration.

Insurance companies can install things too right? I see those commercials on tv for progressive's little black box dealie that shows your driving habits to get you a discount (and sold to advertisers?)

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u-Bob

That's a huge part of the problem. They're no longer accountable for their own actions, they get more power and hightech toys and are trained to see anyone who doesn't behave like a docile sheep as a threat.

Joe Obenberger

The weight of authority is shifting in the direction of a "YES" answer, but the dust hasn't finished settling. It's still risky.

A poster above said it's a "NO" in Illlinois - but a downstate judge ruled the other way not long ago - and just before the arrival of the NATO Summit this month, the matter was briefly litigated in federal court in Chicago, and the outcome was an announcement that the state statute prohibiting the recording of cops in public places would not be enforced during the Summit. The result was an ocean of cameras recording everything, and it seems to me that this had a profound effect on keeping both sides in line.

As another poster said, the US Justice Department now takes the official position that recording the cops doing their jobs in public places is now constitutionally protected. I think that this position will ultimately prevail. But it's not a sure thing yet. So there is some risk. The cops know it's up in the air, and that the smartest move for them is not to resist taping. There is risk to them too, of liability, they know it, and the smarter cops will act accordingly. This may prove to have a very profound affect on how justice gets administered in the US down the road. No longer the cop's word against a defendant, but objective proof of what was said. Another example of technology transforming the foundations of life and society. When you wear that mobile device, you are wearing the future.

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Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice. . . Restraint in the pursuit of Justice is no virtue.
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Joe Obenberger

I'm waiting for some cop to object to the use of a video showing him in the midst of extreme police brutality or copdom verbal abuse - because it's non-compliant with Section 2257. Sadistic and Masochistic abuse is included in the reach of the statute. 18 USC 2256 (2)(a)(iv). :-)

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Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice. . . Restraint in the pursuit of Justice is no virtue.
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epitome

Cops like to say things like you must be guilty of something if you are on a certain block at night.

I think they are guilty of something if they don't want a video of them working.

One thing I do not understand is how the NYPD can pat down anybody they want for no reason. Isn't that an illegal search and seizure? Maybe Joe will weigh in on that.

epitome

The other day I read an article about a college photojournalism major who was documenting the OWS movement in NYC.

The college student felt that the media was only showing when the cops were bad, so he decided to show the side of cops just doing the job they had to do and how they were mostly peaceful and even sympathetic. Lots of shots of standing around, simple observation and peaceful interactions with the public.

He got arrested for no reason. He was one of the first arrestees to get his day in court and he won.