Is the Affiliate Model Dead? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

signupdamnit · 04-24-2012, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

At the conferences, starting around 2007 or 2008, some of the affiliate program owners said more a less the same thing right to your face and on the panels. They could no longer continue to pay staff, and continue to reinvest while paying $75.00-100.00+ per sign up on $9.95/19/95/24.95/mo. memberships that did not rebill. They were simply going to have to bring more traffic in-house.

There were a lot of examples given of whales demanding this and that, which was putting a lot of pressure on the programs to just pay them to keep traffic rolling or lose it. Basically, they have become over dependent on the affiliate whales and the demands were getting harder to meet.

When it comes to memberships and pay outs to affiliates it was entertaining to see just how few managed to actually "think" about how their payouts were even being generated in the first place. It used to humor me when affiliates would be bitching about cross sales, upsells, or traffic leaks and shit after sending a sale to some sponsor. Um.... how in the fuck do you think they were affording to PAY YOU that $75.00/$100.00 sign up bonus?!!?

It does not take a rocket scientist to do simple math.

Nice post. To be fair there were and still are many affiliates who primarily do rev share and never did chase the $100 PPS bullshit and some sponsors did see the problem.

It's the same story in adult as it usually is offline the idiocy of the masses often tends to keep everyone down as a whole. If both pay site owners and affiliates were smarter they would easily be doing ten to twenty times what they are now on average. It's safe to say the same patterns will continue.

Barefootsies · 04-24-2012, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

12clicks covered that very well.

Indeed. Many adult affiliates are now working at fry-o-lator, or whatever 12clicks calls it.

Tofu · 04-24-2012, 11:28 AM

This is a fucking great thread...I know it's annual, but very interesting.

Carry on.

Socks · 04-24-2012, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberHustler

A moment of silence for Markham's wisdom please...

I gave him a very brief moment of almost silence, but my mousewheel clicks a little bit as his posts scroll by.

signupdamnit · 04-24-2012, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Indeed. Many adult affiliates are now working at fry-o-lator, or whatever 12clicks calls it.

The same is true for many old pay site owners and I think there will be many more affiliates and pay site owners in that situation in the coming years.

Barefootsies · 04-24-2012, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

The same is true for many old pay site owners and I think there will be many more affiliates and pay site owners in that situation in the coming years.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

If you do not keep up with the curve balls of this business, technology, and keep adapting to change,..... you're destined to be left behind. Or at minimum see your fortune dwindling with each passing year until you leave the business completely. Whether for the fry cook or other career choice.

Robbie · 04-24-2012, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roald

fuck I was just going to make a post about me moving to mainstream.

Would you be able to re-surface as successful in the adult biz in 2012 if you were to lose your job at Freeones?

Trust me...starting over from scratch (like I did in 2007) is not easy. Especially with piracy killing paysite sales.

globofun · 04-24-2012, 12:30 PM

Dear Mr Markham,

No matter what you write here......you are still an idiot!

Best regards

Z

tony286 · 04-24-2012, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

True dat fine sire.

You are left with a lot of "beer money barons" who claim to still be in the industry, but in truth are no longer full time. They instead don the paper hat for their 9-5 to shake down their nut.

I think Im going to buy the domain beer money barons , it would make a great part time webmaster resource board lol

signupdamnit · 04-24-2012, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Would you be able to re-surface as successful in the adult biz in 2012 if you were to lose your job at Freeones?

Trust me...starting over from scratch (like I did in 2007) is not easy. Especially with piracy killing paysite sales.

I've observed a growing trend of many reps shuffling from one company to another 2 - 5 times a year in the last year or two especially.

Freeones is basically a giant affiliate. They are feeling it too I am sure and they will feel it some more.
http://siteanalytics.compete.com/freeones.com/

MaDalton · 04-24-2012, 01:23 PM

i do not speak for Roald, but if you think he's just a rep you're terribly mistaken

signupdamnit · 04-24-2012, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i do not speak for Roald, but if you think he's just a rep you're terribly mistaken

Relax. I didn't say he was. It just shows volatility in the industry with so many having to switch employers all the time. I have nothing against Roald or FreeOnes but I think they are feeling the effects of this too to some degree just as most affiliates are.

Raja · 04-24-2012, 01:31 PM

to anybody fighting the fight against a 9 to 5! We do all we can to make our sites convert for our affiliates.
I don't mind being one of moons orbiting around planet Manwin, just don't make me sit in a cubicle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

The affiliate model isn't dead, just shrinking, leaving who's left to make whatever is left....

Re-sizing let's call it.

So if you're one of those "surviving" affiliates you may actually see your bottom line profits go UP since competition is less. Then again, work/profit/success is often tied to human effort and motivation, so if you don't see things going up over time you are less inclined to work at something.

I think, in a few years, adult will "stablize" and will reflect several huge companies (planets) with smaller companies (moons) and even smaller individual affiliates (asteroids?) left.

(Ah metaphors! I never met-a-phor I didn't like....)

Anyway, the idea is to be one of those last remaining celestial bodies in our ever-shrinking "adult universe". This will depend greatly, of course, on the stubbornness of the individual affiliate. Some people (bless them) will never, ever give up their freedom to "go mainstream" or "get a real job".

Here's to the Winners - try and be one of them if you can.

Paul Markham · 04-24-2012, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sexdatesj

In 2001 Rand Pate from Epoch and I sat down at a show, he said.. you watch, the Per Signup model will slowly kill this industry, well.. he is right in my opinion!

It wasn't the model, it was the cost that's killing it. Like shooters, they need to bring down their price in the future or sponsors will find cheaper alternatives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Any jackass can push a button on a camera. A photographer needs a camera; An affiliate needs a computer, a connection, photoshop, Dreamweaver, HTML and grahpics skills, PLUS needs the ability to get traffic.

And any jackass can make a stupid post.

A porn shooter needs 2 cameras, model, money to pay them, ability to find them, indoors he needs, strobe lights, video lights, a computer to process the images. PLUS the skills to know what to shoot, know how to set the scene, know how to make models do as the shooter needs. Which is why there are few decent shooters with a clue and loads of affiliates.

Didn't you try to be a shooter with your own paysite?

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

I have a lot of experience in this business as an affiliate and have owned a pay site in the better days.

Also remember the tube discussions where people were claiming they were getting double or triple the amount of type ins as compared to people who clicked banners? Why would you think that only happens on tubes such as Pornhub? Practically every sponsor now has a url on their stuff. If the surfer doesn't click that link and types it in then the affiliate isn't getting anything.

The two things sponsors used to compete on were payouts and how much free content they could give away. If you were right, rev share would be a minimum of 80% or even higher.

Quote:

It's usually not cheaper because you aren't paying them 50%, you are paying them something like 20%.

On the flip side you have to remember that the affiliate can just sell their traffic too. I make more now selling traffic resources in many cases than I do from the sponsors. I still try to push the hell out of my sponsors and do everything legal. Don't get me wrong. But the conversions are less so it's created this scenario. I guess we might expect those rates to go down soon if the traffic is not profitable to someone but so far it seems it is. If everyone's conversions were like affiliates were seeing then that traffic would be selling for 1/5th of what it does now. Obviously that's just not the case.

Yes porn paysites are suffering and selling traffic pays better. Whether the rates on traffic remain as they are is anyone's guess.

Paul Markham · 04-24-2012, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

At the conferences, starting around 2007 or 2008, some of the affiliate program owners said more a less the same thing right to your face and on the panels. They could no longer continue to pay staff, and continue to reinvest while paying $75.00-100.00+ per sign up on $9.95/19/95/24.95/mo. memberships that did not rebill. They were simply going to have to bring more traffic in-house.

There were a lot of examples given of whales demanding this and that, which was putting a lot of pressure on the programs to just pay them to keep traffic rolling or lose it. Basically, they have become over dependent on the affiliate whales and the demands were getting harder to meet.

When it comes to memberships and pay outs to affiliates it was entertaining to see just how few managed to actually "think" about how their payouts were even being generated in the first place. It used to humor me when affiliates would be bitching about cross sales, upsells, or traffic leaks and shit after sending a sale to some sponsor. Um.... how in the fuck do you think they were affording to PAY YOU that $75.00/$100.00 sign up bonus?!!?

It does not take a rocket scientist to do simple math.

Yes the cost broke the model. But who was the dickhead who was telling me members rebill for a year?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

Expanding on this, I don't think most people can tell the difference if a photo was shot by an amazing skilled photographer with tens of thousands of dollars in equipment and decades of experience vs an amateur photographer with an iphone. Photographers can tell but the average consumer visiting our sites and converting into sales can't.

You're dead right. Truth is image quality won't get a dick hard. It's what a skilled pornographer can create on the image that separates raw meat from a sizzling steak.

Paul Markham · 04-24-2012, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

there used to be times where i deeply regretted not to be an affiliate.

looking at my numbers now, and the situation of the affiliate business model, i am quite happy to do what we do

Same here. Many say we should of switched from what we were doing to move over to paysites. Glad we stuck with what we did.

It's nice to dream of being an RK size. But, "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."

Roald · 04-24-2012, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Relax. I didn't say he was. It just shows volatility in the industry with so many having to switch employers all the time. I have nothing against Roald or FreeOnes but I think they are feeling the effects of this too to some degree just as most affiliates are.

Of course we do feel the effects but instead of crying all day long about the good old days we give it a bit more and work a bit harder. Years ago in 2008 the guys behind Pornhub told us to convert FreeOnes into a tube and we were like meh. Perhaps we should have done it, maybe not. I think we still do pretty well these days even though its not 2008 anymore which was our top year.

And to answer you Robbie, can I (since you talk about me and not the company) do it again these days? No idea, sofar im still having fun at FreeOnes ;)

Roald · 04-24-2012, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i do not speak for Roald, but if you think he's just a rep you're terribly mistaken

I wish I was "just a rep" sometimes, much easier ;)))

12clicks · 04-25-2012, 10:17 AM

I laugh at the guys who think selling to a broker is the answer.
That house of cards is just a windy day from its end as well.

foxyflesh · 04-25-2012, 11:00 AM

Ah bugger!

Should have spent some time on forums before I decided to branch out to an adult site!

Had a site up since January, but new to affiliate stuff so this thread is an interesting read!

Pretty much covering my hosting fees from 3rd party ads now (blacklabel, adxpansion) and have yet to get a signup! Even though I am approaching 1000:0 for this week alone....

Am sure its related to me being a newbie but at least I am respecting copyrights and not stealing my content

Barefootsies · 04-25-2012, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

That house of cards is just a windy day from its end as well.

Colmike9 · 04-25-2012, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

the best affiliates are basically search engine spammers using disposable domains and willing to rebuild over and over again as google changes. there aren't that many who can really do that on a long term basis.

That's what I do and works really well. And everyone bitches to me for using free hosts..

signupdamnit · 04-25-2012, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

I laugh at the guys who think selling to a broker is the answer.
That house of cards is just a windy day from its end as well.

Not much unlike the old days of those hidden cross sales eh? Sorry I couldn't resist.

You're right. Ultimately someone has to be able to convert the traffic for it to have worth. But if things get that bad there aren't going to be many pay sites standing either.

Paul Markham · 04-25-2012, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

I laugh at the guys who think selling to a broker is the answer.
That house of cards is just a windy day from its end as well.

Rarely do you and I agree, but on this we're together.

The problem is for most of them selling to a broker is all they can think of or afford. So many threads from people who clearly don't have anything to invest, in money or ideas.

And yes they built their businesses like a house of cards on quicksand. And wondering what the fuck is going wrong.

12clicks · 04-25-2012, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Not much unlike the old days of those hidden cross sales eh? Sorry I couldn't resist.

You're right. Ultimately someone has to be able to convert the traffic for it to have worth. But if things get that bad there aren't going to be many pay sites standing either.

I wouldn't know about hidden cross sales. is that where you used to send your traffic?
in my 14yr experience I've seen things and people come, and things and people go. The people all always thought they were smarter than the market.
they weren't.

12clicks · 04-25-2012, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Rarely do you and I agree, but on this we're together.

The problem is for most of them selling to a broker is all they can think of or afford. So many threads from people who clearly don't have anything to invest, in money or ideas.

And yes they built their businesses like a house of cards on quicksand. And wondering what the fuck is going wrong.

don't pretend to be intelligent by saying you agree with me.
you know nothing about this business

signupdamnit · 04-25-2012, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

I wouldn't know about hidden cross sales. is that where you used to send your traffic?
in my 14yr experience I've seen things and people come, and things and people go. The people all always thought they were smarter than the market.
they weren't.

No mainly revshare. I've been around a while as well. I remember you on Porncity BBS with much the same attitude. Many have fallen both giants and smurfs. The same pattern will likely repeat again. The giants only make the bigger thud.

12clicks · 04-25-2012, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

No mainly revshare. I've been around a while as well. I remember you on Porncity BBS with much the same attitude. Many have fallen both giants and smurfs. The same pattern will likely repeat again. The giants only make the bigger thud.

yeah, I don't have much time for people explaining how things work because they once made $50k in a year.

and yes, smurfs wink out entirely unnoticed.

unless they make a good bye post explaining how they're going to mainstream.

04-24-2012, 11:28 AM	#53
Tofu The Video Specialist Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: California Posts: 5,615	This is a fucking great thread...I know it's annual, but very interesting. Carry on. __________________ tofu916 video services - tofu916.com twitter: tofu916 \| skype: tofu916 \| tel: 916-672-TOFU \| e: tofu # tofu916.com

04-24-2012, 12:30 PM	#58
globofun Buk Lau Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Rangahan Titomangoyamteerumgae Posts: 2,651	Dear Mr Markham, No matter what you write here......you are still an idiot! Best regards Z __________________ Wanna Make Huge Profits? Listen to me carefully: I will not tell you how to make money in this business and I won't give you a Fucking Link to a sponsor so I can make 5% of nothing....get yourself a Fucking Plan, stick to it, don't be a Lazy Bitch, and you will make money!

04-24-2012, 01:23 PM	#61
MaDalton I am Amazing Content! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 39,829	i do not speak for Roald, but if you think he's just a rep you're terribly mistaken __________________ AmazingContent.com - providing only the best content and service since 2003 Monetize your content on Veegaz.com - one of Germanies largest VOD sites Got German traffic? We convert it into money for you! Skype: madalton02826 - Email: oltecconsult [at] gmail [dot] com

04-25-2012, 10:17 AM	#69
12clicks Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: God's right hand Posts: 19,789	I laugh at the guys who think selling to a broker is the answer. That house of cards is just a windy day from its end as well.

04-25-2012, 11:00 AM	#70
foxyflesh Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 54	Ah bugger! Should have spent some time on forums before I decided to branch out to an adult site! Had a site up since January, but new to affiliate stuff so this thread is an interesting read! Pretty much covering my hosting fees from 3rd party ads now (blacklabel, adxpansion) and have yet to get a signup! Even though I am approaching 1000:0 for this week alone.... Am sure its related to me being a newbie but at least I am respecting copyrights and not stealing my content