thats not what i said though

Um, Twisty's has a rating system and I believe the surfers vote for Treat of the Year? I figure they didn't always have their cms coded with that from the beginning, but that now gives them the data they need.

How do you think they decided which girls to pick for solo sites?? The popular ones. :)

and hey, I'm female... if *I* can sell porn to men as a straight female, anyone can figure it out. Stats ftw

Yes a rating system is good for fine tuning. Stats are good for fine tuning. But that's all. Relying on stats without the prior knowledge of what sells, leaves us in the situation of giving away to millions for 1,000s to buy.

Could a Steve Hicks glamor site sell better than a Joe Soap's glamor site. Given the same traffic and stats?

Quoted for truth!

Looks like she managed to escape from the basement ...

Barry there was a lot more around in the late 70s and 80s than the type of porn you talk about. Well there was where I lived. There was amateur, gonzo, girl next door, glamor. Styles have changed a bit, but the only real change was the teen market exploded as a whole niche itself.

Pre video, you had to know how to film. Because film was very expensive, it couldn't be put onto a monitor to check if the lighting was right, editing was a whole different field. Even loading an old time film reel was a pain, had to be done in the 100% black out or light would ruin the film. It was loaded onto cassettes. Getting porn film, was a lot of trouble as few labs would handle it. The whole thing was a big deal and cost a lot of money. And easy to fuck up.

Then duplication, do you know the problems involved duplicating a film reel as opposed to duplicating a Beta tape to VHS?

Therefore there was very little produced, compared with the video days that followed. A movie was pretty well guaranteed to make money if the hurdles were jumped. The returns on a single film would leave you breathless. Compared with Hollywood for dollars invested and dollars profit, it was on par with the block busters. Smaller market YES. Micro supply YES MOST CERTAINLY. This resulted in great returns.

The situation was that the people wit the skills to produce movies were not your amateur porn producers. They were trained people who wanted to hit the biggest market. Why spend the same amount of money on a film with a limited audience when for the sale money you can hit one with a much larger audience?

Still there were amateurs producing porn. On 8mm B/W and color. Read this to get an insight into the 60s porn business in the UK. There were lots of little people doing things on the QT that never made it into the big wider market. Many because it was illegal and the "professionals" had the top end dominated. Still the first Color Climax's would today pass as amateur. The photosets and films I was posing for were definitely amateur.

All this changed when Beta Cam cameras came down to a price, some who couldn't afford or shoot film, could afford to buy. Suddenly taps were cheap, 60 minutes I think were the first. screw up a scene, rewind and shoot that bit again, put the image on a monitor, edit on a reel to reel edit deck. No processing to get it developed. And duplicating was a breeze. Buy 100 VCRs, 1 beta cam player, 100s of leads and hit a button.

When I first started shooting video in 78/79. I used a video camera and trust me it was amateur. All of Astral Blue is amateur. Some of the models aren't. But the style was amateur.

The video camera caused an explosion in porn production. All of a sudden many could shoot and produce porn. Those who did it well and marketed themselves right, made money and prospered, those who didn't died a death.

Need I tell you about this man?



The only difference between this and today is what exactly? Walk up to a girl on the street, talk her into doing something naughty and sexy, film it, sell it. :thumbsup

And so it goes on.

The biggest difference between today and then? We didn't give it to a 1,000 so 1 would buy and call it marketing or selling. :1orglaugh

Boggles the fucking mind.

You see, you're expert enough to tell the difference and don't need stat to tell you she's not going to sell much. :1orglaugh

To cherrylula and ST.

Anyone can shoot a naked girl.
Anyone can make a banner.
10,000s can make TGP.
10,000s can make a site.
Anyone can drive traffic.
Anyone can put a video online.
Anyone can sell porn
Anyone can read stats.

Can anyone shoot a girl, make her look like she'll fuck the world and sell the set for $1,000s?
Can anyone make a banner that grab the viewer enough to make them click on it?
Can anyone design a really great TGP?
Can anyone make a great site?
Can Anyone can drive enough traffic to make a profit they can live on?
Can anyone can put a video online that will sell well?
Can anyone can sell porn well enough to make a living?

The answers to the above is no. not everyone can do this well enough to make a living or even a profit.

Can anyone can read stats. Yes, unless they truly dumb. Seeing one does 1-10,000 and the another one does 1-1,000 is pretty simple. And if you want to debate that come back with decent relevant points.

My point is it takes more than a technical guy reading stats to do very well at anything but getting the technical stuff right.

really? you gave it your best at all of the above and failed. go look at all your old threads.

you should stop talking and listen more. would do you a world of good, but at your age it's too late. maybe in another incarnation.

He's an aged Al Bundy still talking about scoring 3 touch downs in his junior year of high school football.. except he only scored one and it was just because he happened to be in the right place at the right time. Now he thinks he's a coach because at the end of it all, if he can't believe he achieved something, then he has to confront the horrible fact that he's been nothing but a failure.

http://alipuckett.com/blog/wp-conten.../Al_Bundy.jpeg

more trolling

http://emeraldislandphotography.com/...rs-720x542.jpg

This is the excuse given often but don't believe it. You do not troll with consistent 3000 word replies, links to 17 websites and by shooting some crappy content for the company you're jealous of to "prove you still have it". He really believes what he types and he tried damn hard in that video to do a good shoot that was ultimately boring as hell. :2 cents:

he's not trolling. he truly believes in the nonsense he posts while real trolls do it for the lulz.

Yep Markham is not a troll.

But if you treat him as a troll life is sooooo much easier guys. No in length replies you have to write, no head against the wall, no walls of text, no frustration about how dumb someone can be, etc.

win win win

There's an out house joke in there somewhere.

100 longwinded trolls.

Ugly George wasn't raunchy and real???

There was another reason film was dictating the style. Getting to see a movie like you watched, meant a theatre. At home all people had were 8mm movie projectors and the longest most of the movies sold were ten minutes. So what you were looking at was "movies" single scenes were for the home based market in countries where film theatres couldn't show full length porn films. However if you knew where to go, there were little operations where you could watch lots of the 10 minute movies. Amongst a group of 20 guys jerking off. :Oh crap

Yes it was scary, thanks for reminding me.

I don't know what it was like in the US, I have a very intimate knowledge of the market here in Europe and we did have more niches than glam. Maybe you are talking about that you saw in the US.

Well do you see anyone putting up a counter? Except little troll replies like yours. Who is pointing out why I'm wrong?

Maybe it's because all most of you can do is pour over stats to get the information a pornographer would know looking at the girl or picture or video or tour, or design or text link. You needs stats to point out the bloody obvious.

How many signups did you get on your "bloody obvious" link text, tour girls and everything else?

Magic links don't count. :1orglaugh

if your life's work of content wasn't crap you might have a point.

This is correct.

Most "mainstream" businesses are developed based upon solid business metrics, plans and verifiable financial Pro Forma's. A widget is a widget. Our second largest business has nothing to do with our core and quite frankly very few people in the organization are dedicated to anything other than exceeding projections.

This industry should pay attention to the history of Las Vegas. There are some intriguing parallels playing out. :2 cents:

It's almost like Manwin feels they don't have to answer to Paul. I wonder why that is?? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I'm glad to see someone bring this up. In the USA if you earn above $104,696 per year you are in the top 10% of wage earners in the country. The point being if you and your partner, spouse, friend etc can do something you enjoy and put yourself into the top 10% you are living a life most only dream of.

no idiot we need stats to make informed decisions regarding events that actually occur

diametrically opposed to your method which is to continually make outrageous comments and claims based on nothing more than your own lunacy

see the difference you mental fucking cripple ?

Exactamundo.

Additionally, if you are hitting six figures in the first place by yourself with your porn efforts (or in combination with your spouse), you are making more money that 99% of those currently posting on GFY.

:2 cents:

:thumbsup

But what Paul wrote here is true, although how good they can do it, matters somewhat. We can all do anything, just some better than others :2 cents:

Indeed, & looking at the above is pretty right.

or agree with Paul & don't want the beef :pimp

No one has countered this because they know it's right.

Stats rely on testing. Otherwise you only get the results from what you choose and do. If you know what to choose and do, you back my argument and are testing stats from a basis of knowledge and experience. If you don't know what to choose and do and relying on stats to tell you. You're stumbling around hoping to his the right formula.

It's rather like me trying to design a TGP and using stats to see if I get it right. I'm going to find out from a selection of bad designs which works best. If I'm picking girls to shoot, I don't need stats, I can meet a girl and tell after 20 minutes if she's suitable.

Then I can tell by stats if scenes of solo, GG or BG will sell better and make a profit. ST could never rely on stats to do this. Therefore stats are really only of use to those who know what they're going and a tool to improve. So are they a tool for people not good at what they do to improve?

Only if their costs for testing and taking stats are extremely low, if not nothing. Because for most of us testing to take stats and getting it wrong. Is going to cost money. Shooting the wrong girl, in the wrong poses and handling her wrong so I can find out if it works, is like burning my wallet.

Same goes for designing banners, tours, sites, niches, places to advertise, etc. If that test to get the different stats costs you money getting it wrong, is an expense. How do you feel about split testing tours? Great if they are testing from a knowledge of what works, not so great if you send traffic to a tour that instead of converting 1-500, suddenly goes to 1-700. Or worse.

As Gary says it all comes down to your skills to choose what to test to get the stats you desire. In porn, a lot of that knowledge is your ability to see what someone will hand over $30 to see. A pornographer will know. Someone joining the dots won't.

We only have to look at the threads with pics of shooters asking if a girl's hot. The votes for yes are often astounding. It's not about would you fuck her of jerk off to her. It's whether people will pay to do it, in a quantity that will make a living. If you need stats to tell you this. You're in the wrong business.

If Manwin, RK, BB and BF AWC, DWB, don't have people who know their product like a consumer. They're loosing money they could be banking. The last 3 do know. I suppose if you're an affiliate working in the dark, then stats is all you have. Wouldn't you like to know before hand what's good or bad, what will sell and won't in a quantity that will make you a good living?

BF, you're making money 95% of those ever posting on GFY make or made. :1orglaugh

are you saying that Manwin and RK don't know?

It's nice Gary has chipped in with his educated view on this.

He has gymnastic and swimming awards. And is the only person agreeing with Markham.

You are all idiots.

HE HAS SWIMMING AWARDS.

FFS.

Your all morans.

Nice work on more trolling Paul. I'm laughing at you playing these fools.

Well if arsewithclass and paul agree then who are we to disagree.

you are rigth again paul!

No I'm not. Still this is a very good question and when it comes to the product a hard one to answer. Because many sites are started by porn lovers, in their favorite niche who learned the technical side or employed someone who did. And the examples are many and well known.

I'm going to assume you and your partner are very good at what you produce and do. For this example.

Would you have joined a big company worth 8 figures if you were paid a wage that was better than what you could earn on your own. Then would such a company spend that money to get someone at the top of their game in content production?

The answer to the first is very likely yes. We all have our price. The answer to the second is no. Because no company has done this.

Look around at the good and sites with great content. Your sites, Met Art, DDF sites, Sapphic, Alsscan, Bang Bus, Perfect Gonzo in the early days with their great shooter and many many more. The situation is clear, these guys were better off going on their own than working for a big program.

Does a top program have a guy in charge of Hardcore, as good as the shooter who left Perfect Gonzo to join Evil angel?

Does a top glamor site have a man as good as Steve Hicks, at producing the top glamor content?

And the list can go on. In fact what top leg fetish site can pay a top leg fetish shooter enough to make him join. Or an Asian program pay a top Asian niche shooter enough to make him join?

Of course there will always be people who will want to be self employed in their own box. But if one doesn't another would. Money buys anything. Still you know like me, people have very small pockets when it comes to the product.

Offline didn't adopt this method, many of the top names had in house shooters. Or self employed guys with one company to work for.

Paul, the problem is that reality proves you wrong over and over again on almost everything you're saying

Is it too late for a sig spot?

Can you show me where please.

Stats help improve, allow people to adjust. But relying on stats as a first option is stabbing in the dark.

The problem is no one so far has come up with examples of people who only rely on stats, except those who testing different options doesn't cost money. When your partner picks girls to shoot, do you shoot and rely on stats or his and your experience first?

Also how many online only programs employ the top shooters in the business?