ok, i understand now,... you are using the term pornographer not to just mean a photographer of porn such as the very word implies: "porno-GRAPHER" - but also those who profit from it,...doesnt it date back to "photographing prostitutes?" history wise only those who produce porn are called pornographers.

but if you mean anyone who makes money selling porn then that covers much broader spectrum of people. thats why i focused on those who use cameras.

interestingly the word "pornographie" dates back to my hometown of new orleans heheh

Understood kind sire.

I agree with your point in regards to the 'content shooter' versus those who actually do it all. or have in the past. If you've been in the trenches, it is a bit different ball game.

I also share mad respect for Robbie. I have talked to him both privately, and face to face at conferences. The dude knows his shit. I have always learned something in every conversation with him. It doesn't mean I use it all, but he will definitely give you some unique perspective and out of the box thinking to get your brain spinning on some new tweaks and twists. He is one intelligent mofo.

:thumbsup

So how do you know how to create, market, sell (in actually sell it and not dump 100s onto a site in the hope one buys), present it if you're not a into the product? You pick out glory hole sites. How do you know what's right if you don't know the product enough for a man to get his wallet out? As for confidence in your product. Why? Unless you know it will sell, you're relying on some sales blurb or reputation. Which in this business is often a site with 1000s already pushing it.

It's all very well adopting Squealers approach. And it will work. If you're selling baked beans. Selling porn is a little harder. You need to know some basics about your product, customer, niche, market and format you're selling it in. Otherwise you're left showing 500 and one buying.

Do you have that photo in a bigger format?

Pornography derives from Greek, it means "writing of whores".

As for making money selling porn. Well then you need to define how much money, for how much work and most of all what is "selling". Is the girl taking your cash at the check out "selling". Is someone showing 1000 people a sample for 1 to buy "selling"?

Convincing someone you have the solutions to his/her situation is selling. Handing out tins of baked beans is supplying.

By your definition of people who make money selling porn. It would be a very small group, affiliates, some designers, marketing people, etc don't sell. They present. The sale is made by the person who put the POS together. Point Of Sale.

A great designer sells, not just himself, his clients products as well. How many "designers" just put a page together on the instructions? IMO to make a great porn tour, you need to be a great designer and a pornographer or an intense interest in the product. To do it at it's best.

well all i know is even youve come to me for site design and ads so i must be doing something right, barefootsies too hehehe

good discussion.
:thumbsup

that reminds me - i need some banners - i'll be in touch shortly :1orglaugh

Is that why your site failed. You didn't have the right technology? :1orglaugh

I'm not a photographer by any means. I'm a pornographer, a camera is merely the tool I use to capture the illusion I want to present.

I can see how your method works, stabbing in the dark until you find the right formula. With a pornographer you don't need to mess around and waste money testing the wrong thing. Much faster and cheaper than technology.

Yes it can be honed by your method and Squealers. A steak eater doesn't need to test horse meat or oxtail or stewing steak to know the fillet is the best. You seem to think testing it to find out is a better way and Squealer will spend all his time on horse meat by using his method.

email me direct and ill reply as fast as possible

fletchxxx @ gmail.com

fitty..............Questions :Graucho

btw my comment about dating of word "pornography"- was specifically about the word ponography in English language. I idnt know New orleans imported the first mag, niiiice

"Pornographie" was in use in the French language during the 1800s. The word did not enter the English language as the familiar conjunction until 1857[5] or as a French import in New Orleans in 1842.[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography

sweet

sent! :thumbsup

replied.

:thumbsup

True once you get past a certain size it needs managers at the helm. Still needs engineers in the engine room, cooks in the galley, etc.

Does the managing director tell the cook how to feed people and the engineers how to fix the motors?

So let's go extreme to make your post look very wrong. So a guy using your method. Tests with these girls to find which ones work the best.

http://paulmarkham.com/temp/0276.jpg

http://paulmarkham.com/temp/ce6.jpg

http://paulmarkham.com/temp/datingsitescontent6.jpg

http://paulmarkham.com/temp/design9.jpg

http://paulmarkham.com/temp/2493a.jpg

http://paulmarkham.com/temp/glamour14.jpg

And don't tell me someone will like it or if it's in the right niche. One is stabbing in the dark, the other is knowing what niche to fit her into.

How about we go to another extreme.
You watch the whole video and try to understand what somebody else is saying?

Your designs were good and I liked them.

Think of this question like this. If you could look at a site and see what the main focus of it was, beyond it being just a teen, cuckold or leg site. Could you then know the way to make a banner or tour work better?

For instance with my sites, it's mostly about teens who are cute, teasing and naughty sexually. Would you see that and know how to make the design better to target the buyers who will most be turned onto that?

With BF it might be because I've never seen his work, amateurs who love to have their feet and toes played with. Just normal GND with a thing about having their feet played with. With Leg Sex it was more about upmarket women demanding men worship them at their feet. Cuckold can be GND who don't get it from hubby and out on the prowl. Or over sexed rich ladies who can never get enough.

This knowledge of your product allows you to aim to the market you supply better. And you're testing is just fine tuning ad not some search in the dark to get it right. In terms of getting things like text and "Calls to Action" it's essential. A call to action that says "Buy here" is never going to work as well as one that appeals as much as "Susan's husband is away and she's waiting for you." Extreme and the last one off the top of my head, still it shows how knowledge of the product and the market works.

No but he makes sure the cook is feeding the people to their liking and that the engineer is keeping the motors running smooth.

None of the above by the way.

The girls above, not the poll.

Don't you know that Paul knows everything about everything? People like Fabian could learn a lot from this retired player.

i'll say less then 1%.

but hey what matters is CRO and data which are facts, not some pornographer guru to say hey this works and this doesn't - data is everything

why do you care though or are you making a statement that they need a pornographer on staff as a point?

just curious...

to sell 'product' you need 'users of product' in the staff
therefore
to sell porn you need viewers of pornography in the staff.

otherwise your quote should be 'To sell meat you need butchers in the staff'


Continuing your meat products example.

you make 15 types of sausage
the spicy one sells the most
the 1980's flavored boring english sausage made by the old butcher that's not really up to it anymore sells the least.

your customers have spoken, they want more spice.

Or to another extreme. Show me the video and try to understand what I'm saying.

"Testing in the dark is harder than testing in the light."

Now you can take that literally and do more trolling. :1orglaugh

No Paul, it is not.

1) Data can tell you anything.

2) The more traffic you have the faster that data comes in.

3) Manwin has enough traffic to know more about what converts in 24 hours than you've learned in 24 years.

Same reason online poker players run circles around the old schoolers, more data.

I always wondered why everyone on GFY always calls Markham a crazy old codger... now I get it.

When you fail at doing something you don't tell the company that does it best what they are doing wrong?

I'm sorry for asking this. Were you in the porn business during the 70s and 80s? Because if you were you wouldn't make that statement.

Why do you all keep letting him troll you?

Markham is clueless about most subjects...and will die being clueless...but until he does he will continue to post his clueless babble.

Now I get what you're saying and it's spot on.

Give free movies to millions and eventually the data will tell you what one works the best. :1orglaugh

I suppose you're spot on right here and if that's how it's done today then no wonder the buyers don't buy like they used to. Because by the time you've finished testing the buyer has become a freeloader.

Here's the way us old codgers did it in the days before you bright young things. We took a person like Steve Hicks or Lindsay Honey and listened to their thoughts and ideas of how to put together a site for glamor or Gonzo site. We put them in charge of building the product to what ever level we wanted. We ended up testing whether a girl in black stocking worked better than a girl in white stockings or a picking up a girl on the street or in a train worked best.

Usually we found they both worked. :thumbsup

OK extreme example. A marketing term that has been used for a long time is this one.

During WW2 the best way to bring down a plane from the ground was to pepper the sky with Ack Ack. Today they use a guided missile. WW2 had a 1-100 chance of a shell hitting a plane. Missiles are 90% effective, if a lock can be acquired.

Yes it's technology, it illustrates the point a guided missile is better than a blanket tactic.

It didn't take me 24 years to learn. It took about 16. From 0 to 16 years of age. :1orglaugh

Now if you take a guy who knows his niche, style, the problems of presenting it in today's business world. Then you're testing a great product. Not throwing up 100,s of free samples to millions of consumers to find what works where and for what.

Think about what I'm trying to say to you, then look at where your traffic converts best. A site put together by a guy who knows what he's doing. Or a site where the guy is still testing?

Then why are you trying to tell me how to do it?

This is nothing to do with Manwin. Just Fabian's statement about going towards a more technical based company.

Your last post showed me obvious flaws which I pointed out. Counter them with a reasoned debate. And include this;

Would a Manwin glamor site put together be person like Steve Hicks, Viv Thomas convert the same traffic better than put together by a technician who was into technical things?

Horses for courses, round pegs for round holes, if the cap fits, etc. OR Jack of all trades master of none? One/two man bands have no options. Big companies do and use them.

Manwin bought Twistys which is run by content people who know pretty well what their users want

well this is done by countless companies every single day in the form of surveys, taste tests, and product samples giving out by the..... millions. in fact, some PAY YOU TO SAMPLE ther stuff or pay you to take a survey or pay you to watch commercials and tell them which is best. Have you never been paid to do this? I have, plenty when young, used to do it for beer money in teens. lol

they send out samples of millions of products every day via mail then collect data. products range from cereal, to coffee, etc... i get them in mail constantly.

As i said, marketing is not photography. ;)

and seriously when it comes to "movies" - they test movies now to see which ENDING they want to put in the movie

LOLOLOL

they let people watch the movie for free then see which ending works best

yep, data is everything when it comes to MARKETING.

so very true...

I actually thought of replying to ST but his reply is so dumb and easy to shoot down, I couldn't be bothered.

Madalton comes up with the answer for most of us. Shap built something that met the needs of his customers, so met the needs of his affiliates. Built it to a size that Manwin bought it.

He wasn't fapping around testing to see if Jana Cova converted better than some girl who just looks nice. Used good shooters, not people who could point a camera. Because he knew the difference and didn't need to guess.