Sorry Internet Hippies: SOPA Vote NOT Delayed - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

stocktrader23 · 12-17-2011, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epitome

You can achieve the same today with DMCA. Send enough notices upstream and see how fast somebody gets pulled. You can do it now with Google, too.... Look at the links to chilling effects.

Not even close to the same thing. As long as they service provider forwards you the DMCA notice they are not liable for any lawsuits. If you don't answer in the correct amount of time you are personally liable. If you reply to the notice they put the content back up and YOU assume responsibility. They are immune, exempt, not in danger. The second you put the burden on them they will start blocking content.

Again, one amendment would fix this. They refuse to pass any of them.

scottybuzz · 12-17-2011, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Bingo! The only "Freedom" people will "lose" is the freedom to STEAL shit.

Their parents should have raised them better.

Robbie, you of all people, do you really trust me government to just do this and protect the adult industry?!

How many times have you moaned about drug policy?

Robbie · 12-17-2011, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

American Internet Firewall ostensibly as first to protect IP rights but more sinisterly creating the technology for censorship of other things, and of course, many people feel that Internet "hard core porn" is objectionable -- this creates the mechanism for its eradication.

Be careful of what you ask for -- you may just get it ... [/INDENT]

There's a pesky little thing called the U.S. Constitution which would prevent that kind of shenanigans.

I say the sooner that Pornhub and all of their sister sites, along with file share sites and bit torrents full of stolen content are BLOCKED from the U.S. porn market...the better.

Nothing will be "censored". People will just have to pay for it again.

If you took these theories that equate stopping people from stealing with "censorship" and applied them to the REAL world...then we would be arguing that making it a crime to break into your home and steal stuff is "censorship"

The only "freedom" being taken is the "freedom" to steal. And the only "censorship" is that people will have to PAY for porn again.

Doesn't matter what the thieves try to do...the U.S. market is THE most lucrative porn market in the world. Block stolen content and the whole thing changes.

And no...it doesn't matter if porn.com is full of full length porn scenes that they actually own...they will quickly find that they have slit their own throats by doing that when this law is passed because they will have devalued their library of content.

People like different stuff. And the guys who love the Naughty America sites will now PAY for it. The ones who like FTV will PAY for that. They aren't interested in Pimproll's sites...just like the guys who are interested in Pimprolls content (which is great by the way) could care less about Naughty America or FTV.

I see a lot of theories and "what if's" being discussed.

But how about what piracy has already DONE to this biz? It's time to stop it. And if it means that we lose our "freedom" to just take any goddamn thing we want on the internet for free? Then so be it.

I'd rather see you all making great money again and be able to AFFORD to pay for what you need.

MakingItPay · 12-17-2011, 05:12 PM

It is so interesting that we argue back and forth over this bill, when the outcome will be determined by money. Just like .XXX was. We screamed, shouted, doom and gloomed, and it passed. I believe this is just window dressing, and all the stuff in it that makes it weaker is getting left in it, so it will fail, and the politicians who are lobbied by studios and other content producers can say, well we tried. We will try again in a few years.

It is so nice that the people making money from illegal content are afraid that sites with legit content might get shut down. Thanks for caring guys! You rock!

stocktrader23 · 12-17-2011, 05:14 PM

You're right, the big tubes could never afford to go with 100% licensed content. They would just keep stealing, get themselves blocked and you'd make billions of dollars again.

Robbie · 12-17-2011, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottybuzz

Robbie, you of all people, do you really trust me government to just do this and protect the adult industry?!

How many times have you moaned about drug policy?

I don't trust the govt. for shit.

But I do realize that certain laws are necessary. No, I don't believe the govt. has the right to tell us what we can put in our own bodies.
Yes, I do believe the govt.'s JOB is to make laws that protect it's citizens from crimes like STEALING.

I am also in favor of laws that protect us from murder, rape, etc. I don't think that's hypocritical of me.

I don't think the govt. should be able to tell me what I can or can't see or read or think.
And this law doesn't infringe on any of those rights.

It just requires that I don't STEAL things. I'm completely free to pay for things I want. Just as it should be in a civilized society.

Robbie · 12-17-2011, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

You're right, the big tubes could never afford to go with 100% licensed content. They would just keep stealing, get themselves blocked and you'd make billions of dollars again.

Won't matter if they buy content all day long and post it.

The trick to all that traffic is the "community" of people stealing it and patting themselves on the back.

Go read Pornbb dot org and see how that works.

And again...the sites giving it away if this law passes will soon start losing money hand over foot.

The only reason it's profitable to give it away for free to gain traffic to sell ad space, is because the very act of piracy created that environment.

Let that shit stop and all the sites that produce content that is unique NOT have their stuff devalued by piracy and you will see that change very quickly. Why on Earth would I produce porn at high risk and overhead and then give it away for the peanuts of ad money when I could be making big money SELLING the porn again.

Just watch. Especially since you aren't even in this business. You have nothing to lose...and only look stupid even questioning what is going to happen.

mynameisjim · 12-17-2011, 05:22 PM

Why the sudden concern about false claims? Couldn't you say that about any law?

Making a false claim is illegal no matter what it is in regards to, not to mention it would open you up to huge civil liability. Showing someone made a false claim would be very easy in civil court.

There is no more of a chance of this law receiving false claims than any other of the millions of laws on the books around the country.

Not saying SOPA is right, but the "false claim" argument is not appropriate here.

BTW, before anyone brings up due process. If someone falsely accuses you of rape, you will get your due process, but you have to make bail, be a rape suspect for several months, and pay for your legal defense until your day in court. My point is that there is no due process before someone makes an accusation or prevents them from making a false accusation, so arguing that this law is somehow unique in that it lets people make claims without due process is just not accurate.

stocktrader23 · 12-17-2011, 05:31 PM

God damn I hope this stupid piece of shit law passes. Watching the fallout would be worth a busted ass internet. One day soon the last of the idiots hanging on to old ideas will be shaken out of this industry, SOPA or not.

Robbie · 12-17-2011, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

idiots hanging on to old ideas will be shaken out of this industry, SOPA or not.

And what do you do genius? Where are your "new ideas"?

You don't have any. You're nothing.

So keep "laughing" in your single wide trailer and talking shit on a message board. You will never live the lifestyle that I have.

And that makes me smile.

stocktrader23 · 12-17-2011, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

And what do you do genius? Where are your "new ideas"?

You don't have any. You're nothing.

So keep "laughing" in your single wide trailer and talking shit on a message board. You will never live the lifestyle that I have.

And that makes me smile.

I do a lot of stuff, none of which I share publicly. I've kept my main sites private since around 1 month after I started posting on GFY and my shit was ripped off a few hundred times. I have nothing to gain from posting it here, don't care to post it here and do just find without posting it here. None of that is relevant to the fact that you are hoping your sales magically improve from a bill that will have no noticeable effect on your conversion ratios regardless of what happens.

Robbie · 12-17-2011, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

I do a lot of stuff, none of which I share publicly. I've kept my main sites private since around 1 month after I started posting on GFY and my shit was ripped off a few hundred times. I have nothing to gain from posting it here, don't care to post it here and do just find without posting it here. None of that is relevant to the fact that you are hoping your sales magically improve from a bill that will have no noticeable effect on your conversion ratios regardless of what happens.

So you're just another clown who has nothing.

And YOU are trying to tell ME shit?

And there's nothing "magic" about what I'm saying. If the latest Naughty America scene is on a million fileshare, tubes, and torrents within an hour of it's release...sales will suck.

If it's only available in the members area...sales will increase.

If you don't understand that basic concept then it explains why you are where you are at in life.

Free advice to you: Stop being disrespectful just because you're on a message board. When I started out, I sought out people who were successful in this business. And instead of being a know-it-all smart ass and insulting them...I befriended them and LEARNED.

You'd be better off to stop posting on GFY and get your ass to Vegas for the Internext show and find me, introduce yourself to me, apologize for being a dick on the message board and then see if we could do business together that could benefit you in the future.

Just think about that for a second before you say anything. Are you in this to make money? Or to give yourself a chuckle on a message board?

I'd bet that if you're 1/2 as smart and good as you think you are...that I'd be able to sit down with you and together come up with ways we could make money together.
Just sayin'...

stocktrader23 · 12-17-2011, 06:05 PM

We could find a way to make money together, and I'll probably end up sending you traffic at some point in the future anyhow. I just don't run typical sites or do what 'normal' affiliates do so there's never been much to gain by working with others in the general sense. That doesn't mean I haven't / don't work with many from these boards, I met my best friend here in 2003 and we made truckloads of money together. In all the years we worked together maybe 2 other people from GFY actually knew what we did and one of them died recently.

I just don't see this bill fixing things like you think. You can share content without ever putting a website up, there will be piracy regardless of what laws pass and even if you wiped it out things wouldn't magically return to what you consider normal. The internet is evolving and at some point you will need to as well even if SOPA passed and put a temporary band-aid on your troubles.

Robbie · 12-17-2011, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

The internet is evolving and at some point you will need to as well even if SOPA passed and put a temporary band-aid on your troubles.

The only troubles I have are trying to sell memberships to paysites that I don't own.

I "evolved" right along with the internet and claudiamarie.com is making more money than it did 4 years ago.

But it's special...and it doesn't address the fact that almost 500 other programs that I promote are hurt badly by piracy. I'd like to regain that huge income I had as an affiliate again.

And my experience tells me that if piracy is held down to a dull roar again...then my work as an affiliate could have meaning and this business can start to revive.

By the way...I appreciate the tone of your last couple of posts. I took you off "ignore" to have this conversation. And I'm going to leave you off "ignore" now.

I can respect your opinions. I hope you're wrong and I'm right on this issue. If not, then nothing will change and I'll keep plugging along. But if this law does pass and the desired effect is achieved, we could all be making a lot more money.

stocktrader23 · 12-17-2011, 06:32 PM

Robbie, the problem is that I talk to everyone here in the same way I'd talk to my friends. I don't care if you tell me to go fuck myself anymore than I care if a good friend says it.

Anyhow, should it pass I hope you're right in the fact that it will help the entire industry and that it won't be abused. I just don't think that's how it would go down at all.

ClaudiaMarie.com is probably fine because you actually interact with customers, it's absolutely original content since there is only one of her and your fans will be fans for life. I fully believe you can be doing better year after year in that scenario. Most of the sites that are struggling sell garbage. Even if it's exclusive content it's not like there is anything to make it stand apart from everything else. I really don't see those recovering in any meaningful way at this point. Sure the economy might make a few more spend but until they have something that really gets a surfers attention they are going to decline to the point that they are unprofitable. There will always be exceptions of course.

Anthony · 12-17-2011, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stocktrader23

We could find a way to make money together, and I'll probably end up sending you traffic at some point in the future anyhow. I just don't run typical sites or do what 'normal' affiliates do so there's never been much to gain by working with others in the general sense. That doesn't mean I haven't / don't work with many from these boards, I met my best friend here in 2003 and we made truckloads of money together. In all the years we worked together maybe 2 other people from GFY actually knew what we did and one of them died recently.

I just don't see this bill fixing things like you think. You can share content without ever putting a website up, there will be piracy regardless of what laws pass and even if you wiped it out things wouldn't magically return to what you consider normal. The internet is evolving and at some point you will need to as well even if SOPA passed and put a temporary band-aid on your troubles.

Probably one of the best posts I've seen you make. Where you weren't going for the troll and gave back a well thought of response.

My thoughts that this bill might stop the random down loader, but it won't do anything for the guys who have private trackers, and peer to peer capability.

The other language is what scares me as someone who does business on the web.

stocktrader23 · 12-17-2011, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

Probably one of the best posts I've seen you make. Where you weren't going for the troll and gave back a well thought of response.

My thoughts that this bill might stop the random down loader, but it won't do anything for the guys who have private trackers, and peer to peer capability.

The other language is what scares me as someone who does business on the web.

I found my Orbit gum.

Ann-Angelcom · 12-18-2011, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porno jew

who the hell do you think drove traffic and sales to you and paid for your lifestyle all these years moron?

i regret sending you sales years ago. and i stopped because your content got tired and no one wanted to buy it anymore. all the draconian privacy laws isn't going to make your irrelevant old sites sell any more.

Whoa! Aren't YOU getting defensive for absolutely no reason. I wasn't even directing comments to anyone I was simply defending what I think is a good bill.

Let's get something straight before I go on.....

Affiliate sales to any of my sites since 2003 has accounted for less than 20% of my sales. Again....less than 20%. So get off the high horse you're on with the fantasy that YOU made me lmao. And you can thank me later for dealing with models, shooting content, etc etc etc etc ALL THE BULLSHIT, that is involved in running a website so you can earn some cash from my hard work.

It was MY hard work that made me money and if you benefitted from that at some point, you're welcome. Don't regret sending me sales because it probably bought you some nice things. I didn't ask you to send me sales....matter of fact never asked anyone. If YOU chose to sign up it's because YOU wanted to make money from what I created. You are in no way the reason for my success so let's get that straight.

Regarding your comment about my sites.....my sites are the most commonly ripped sites on a weekly basis since 2008. Also have the largest threads and most view on many piracy forums. Not to mention COmments.....THE MOST comments! That is because people want what we put out. So yet again another stupid comment. The day these forums and shit stop ripping our sites we can get back to business. After all....without us (the producers) YOU my friend would not have earned a damn thing unless you would be able to sell some blank thumbnail boxes and perhaps some blank videos lol. The only reason a tgp even HAS any traffic is because you have content on it......and who created that? That's right....PRODUCERS. US BABY!! LOL WE WIN!! This is not a "which came first the chicken or the egg" argument because in our case it's clear. WE (Producers) MADE YOU!!!!!

God I regret letting you use my content...... lmao Just kidding....see what a DICKISH comment that is? I'm not mad at you though. Now we're even....You made a DICK remark, I put you back in your place....all is good. Friends?

Guys like you should be the first to support this kind of law since it is finally some much needed relief to the content producers whose content you've been using to earn a living.

Now back to the topic......
This law is a good thing!!!

DamianJ · 12-18-2011, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

Why the sudden concern about false claims? Couldn't you say that about any law?

Because your billing will get cut of within 5 days and your site taken offline without a judge or jury being involved.

HTH.

Barry-xlovecam · 12-18-2011, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ View Post

"section 104 of SOPA also allows payment processors to cut websites off voluntarily?even if they haven?t received a notice. Visa and Mastercard cannot be held accountable if they cease processing payments to any site, as long as they have a ?reasonable belief? that the website is engaged in copyright violations of any kind"

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/1...till-blacklist

I fail to see how this is so as this seems in reference of liability in executing "COURT ORDERS."

Quote:
SOPA §104(b) LIMITATIONS RELATING TO COURT ORDERS.?

However, what I see as objectionable is is the creation of an American Internet Firewall ostensibly as first to protect IP rights but more sinisterly creating the technology for censorship of other things, and of course, many people feel that Internet "hard core porn" is objectionable -- this creates the mechanism for its eradication.

Be careful of what you ask for -- you may just get it ...

SEC. 104. IMMUNITY FOR TAKING VOLUNTARY ACTION AGAINST SITES DEDICATED TO THEFT OF U.S. PROPERTY. is the correct title

I have to retract what I said; I had one of the amended bills offered whose amendments were defeated copied -- sorry about that.
SEC. 104. IMMUNITY FOR TAKING VOLUNTARY ACTION AGAINST SITES DEDICATED TO THEFT OF U.S. PROPERTY.

No cause of action shall lie in any Federal or State court or administrative agency against, no person may rely in any claim or cause of action against, and no liability for damages to any person shall be granted against, a service provider, payment network provider, Internet advertising service, advertiser, Internet search engine, domain name registry, or domain name registrar for taking any action described in section 102(c)(2), section 103(d)(2), or section 103(b) with respect to an Internet site, or otherwise voluntarily blocking access to or ending financial affiliation with an Internet site, in the reasonable belief that?

(1) the Internet site is a foreign infringing site or is an Internet site dedicated to theft of U.S. property; and
(2) the action is consistent with the entity?s terms of service or other contractual rights.

This limits liability in the event of extra-judicial closing of server accounts, forfeiture of domain names and the closing or denial of merchant accounts on the basis of "reasonable belief" actions -- actions by private parties without proof and a Court order.

If you want to eliminate most of the theft of content do not allow the content to be downloaded and copied easily -- use secure streaming that will eliminate 90% of the problem. Yeah, buy a better lock for your backdoor. Costs more up front to do this maybe but it is proactive https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1047788

DVD Ripping is a separate issue. There are ways to make stealing harder but all the laws and policemen in the world haven't stopped breaking and entering and burglary -- nor will they ever. At is core, this is a similar issue but the problem is that Internet theft is an acceptable practice in a lot of people's minds.

So, if you are doing nothing about protecting your content digitally don't cry when it gets ripped off. You left the door unlocked and they stole your stuff -- this is surprising?

Actually, this SOPA law would be a big threat to advertising networks located in the USA but many of the major players are located offshore so the law would have little effect anyway -- classic showboating in an election year.

Maybe, the denial of payment processing would have some effect.

But looking to a US Law and the US Courts to be the pornographer's savior is wishful thinking at best.

DamianJ · 12-18-2011, 02:20 AM

Barry, the way you format your posts gives me no idea what you mean, if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing and I really have trouble comprehending you. Do you think you could drop the odd colours, the indenting, and just quote and reply in a standard manner?

Barry-xlovecam · 12-18-2011, 02:32 AM

I am in agreement with you as I said I had saved and amended copy offered -- it had the same title. (And these morons are making laws ...) Sorry you find my styles confusing ... I have never been "standardized"

stocktrader23 · 12-18-2011, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

I am in agreement with you as I said I had saved and amended copy offered -- it had the same title. (And these morons are making laws ...) Sorry you find my styles confusing ... I have never been "standardized"

Yellow freak. They should make some laws so that you have to conform.

gideongallery · 12-18-2011, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakingItPay

It is so nice that the people making money from illegal content are afraid that sites with legit content might get shut down. Thanks for caring guys! You rock!

Hey then why not support an ammendment that would void the all the copyrights of the complaining copyright holder IF they make a bogus rogue site complaint.

that would do nothing to protect the sites making money from illegal content

only those sites with legit content (fair use or owned outright) from abuse of the law.

12-17-2011, 05:12 PM	#54
MakingItPay Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,920	It is so interesting that we argue back and forth over this bill, when the outcome will be determined by money. Just like .XXX was. We screamed, shouted, doom and gloomed, and it passed. I believe this is just window dressing, and all the stuff in it that makes it weaker is getting left in it, so it will fail, and the politicians who are lobbied by studios and other content producers can say, well we tried. We will try again in a few years. It is so nice that the people making money from illegal content are afraid that sites with legit content might get shut down. Thanks for caring guys! You rock! __________________ Giant Boob High Def Trifectas http://www.TrifectaBucks.com 3D Super Sites that Sell http://www.ThrillBucks.com Giant Boobs Anyone? http://www.MakingitPay.com ICQ me at 213177906

12-17-2011, 05:14 PM	#55
stocktrader23 Let's do some business. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The dirty south. Posts: 18,781	You're right, the big tubes could never afford to go with 100% licensed content. They would just keep stealing, get themselves blocked and you'd make billions of dollars again. __________________ Hands Free Adult - Join Once, Earn For Life "I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

12-17-2011, 05:22 PM	#58
mynameisjim Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,985	Why the sudden concern about false claims? Couldn't you say that about any law? Making a false claim is illegal no matter what it is in regards to, not to mention it would open you up to huge civil liability. Showing someone made a false claim would be very easy in civil court. There is no more of a chance of this law receiving false claims than any other of the millions of laws on the books around the country. Not saying SOPA is right, but the "false claim" argument is not appropriate here. BTW, before anyone brings up due process. If someone falsely accuses you of rape, you will get your due process, but you have to make bail, be a rape suspect for several months, and pay for your legal defense until your day in court. My point is that there is no due process before someone makes an accusation or prevents them from making a false accusation, so arguing that this law is somehow unique in that it lets people make claims without due process is just not accurate. __________________ jim (at) amateursconvert . com Amateurs Convert Last edited by mynameisjim; 12-17-2011 at 05:31 PM..

12-17-2011, 05:31 PM	#59
stocktrader23 Let's do some business. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The dirty south. Posts: 18,781	God damn I hope this stupid piece of shit law passes. Watching the fallout would be worth a busted ass internet. One day soon the last of the idiots hanging on to old ideas will be shaken out of this industry, SOPA or not. __________________ Hands Free Adult - Join Once, Earn For Life "I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

12-17-2011, 06:05 PM	#63
stocktrader23 Let's do some business. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The dirty south. Posts: 18,781	We could find a way to make money together, and I'll probably end up sending you traffic at some point in the future anyhow. I just don't run typical sites or do what 'normal' affiliates do so there's never been much to gain by working with others in the general sense. That doesn't mean I haven't / don't work with many from these boards, I met my best friend here in 2003 and we made truckloads of money together. In all the years we worked together maybe 2 other people from GFY actually knew what we did and one of them died recently. I just don't see this bill fixing things like you think. You can share content without ever putting a website up, there will be piracy regardless of what laws pass and even if you wiped it out things wouldn't magically return to what you consider normal. The internet is evolving and at some point you will need to as well even if SOPA passed and put a temporary band-aid on your troubles. __________________ Hands Free Adult - Join Once, Earn For Life "I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

12-17-2011, 06:32 PM	#65
stocktrader23 Let's do some business. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The dirty south. Posts: 18,781	Robbie, the problem is that I talk to everyone here in the same way I'd talk to my friends. I don't care if you tell me to go fuck myself anymore than I care if a good friend says it. Anyhow, should it pass I hope you're right in the fact that it will help the entire industry and that it won't be abused. I just don't think that's how it would go down at all. ClaudiaMarie.com is probably fine because you actually interact with customers, it's absolutely original content since there is only one of her and your fans will be fans for life. I fully believe you can be doing better year after year in that scenario. Most of the sites that are struggling sell garbage. Even if it's exclusive content it's not like there is anything to make it stand apart from everything else. I really don't see those recovering in any meaningful way at this point. Sure the economy might make a few more spend but until they have something that really gets a surfers attention they are going to decline to the point that they are unprofitable. There will always be exceptions of course. __________________ Hands Free Adult - Join Once, Earn For Life "I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

12-18-2011, 02:20 AM	#71
DamianJ Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land Posts: 15,808	Barry, the way you format your posts gives me no idea what you mean, if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing and I really have trouble comprehending you. Do you think you could drop the odd colours, the indenting, and just quote and reply in a standard manner?

12-18-2011, 02:32 AM	#72
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	I am in agreement with you as I said I had saved and amended copy offered -- it had the same title. (And these morons are making laws ...) Sorry you find my styles confusing ... I have never been "standardized"