Gold just hit $1600 per ounce. How high can it go? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Agent 488 · 07-18-2011, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

I totally agree this will happen overnight. The next morning their will be a run for the banks just to find out all cash is long gone and this will cause a domino effect and all currency will not be worth the paper it's printed on.

You can be sitting on all the gold, silver, and diamonds you want, but you'd gladly trade all of that to have a 3oz lead bullet pointed away from you and your family. The best investment to buy now would be a gun, medication, and find a clean water source.

american's lean on hollywood for their collapse scenarios too much.

maybe i will put together a book on what really happens during a collapse and what to expect.

hint: after a quick dissolution the social body starts to self-organize.

Caligari · 07-18-2011, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

You can be sitting on all the gold, silver, and diamonds you want, but you'd gladly trade all of that to have a 3oz lead bullet pointed away from you and your family. The best investment to buy now would be a gun, medication, and find a clean water source.

yes. a clean water source is simple for anyone. buy a 1000 gallon tank (not expensive) and elevate it so you have running water source (not much power but at least its running).

4 people could get away with using 10 gallons a day so you have 100 days of water, if you have any land you have a garden along with canned goods etc, gas stove (with min 50 gal of propane stored somewhere) and of course guns and bullets. and as you say a variety of medicines.

The Demon · 07-18-2011, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wig

What was the point of the history of metals as money then? I'm sure Agent 488 is aware of that.

.

The fact that they were used and therefore had monetary value. Also, I never advocated a pure gold standard, only a fractional reserve commodity standard.

Caligari · 07-18-2011, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent 488

hint: after a quick dissolution the social body starts to self-organize.

that is the hollywood scenario, the real scenario in these times is far more bleak. you need only to read the news over the past few years.

the social body may self organize, but will do so in primitive tribal groups who largely understand politics like insects. in other words they don't.

just think in terms of these casey anthony mobs and imagine them without a leash.

Nikki_Licks · 07-18-2011, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

You can be sitting on all the gold, silver, and diamonds you want, but you'd gladly trade all of that to have a 3oz lead bullet pointed away from you and your family. The best investment to buy now would be a gun, medication, and find a clean water source.

Bingo

dyna mo · 07-18-2011, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

The best investment to buy now would be a gun, medication, and find a clean water source.

from what i've read and seen, a 72 hour survival kit is the best investment.

wig · 07-18-2011, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikki_Licks

OK. But lets say the person selling or trading has everything you mention, except the items I mentioned, do you think he will be interested in trading? I do.

I'm sorry, what items did you mention? The gold and diamonds? If that's what you meant I don't think they have much value in a "collapse". They have value as a commodity which increases as a hedge in uncertain times, but that is because investors, while uncertain, are not envisioning going back 200 years or they would be doing the compound/security/arms/water/food/off grid thing.

Quote:

The people with weapons and ammo will not bother with trading; they will simply shoot you and take what they want.

Agreed. In "collapse" mode this will be happening in areas. But, like has been mentioned, I can envision places like where I have my farm in North Georgia where people ban together and share/barter to get by and this includes security.

In Panama City, Panama where I live now, probably not a great place to be. lol

Quote:

When I think of collapse, I think of all out total ciaos and each man for him self?.. maybe I am understanding collapse differently than you folks ;)

Understood. I mentioned that it would come down to how you define "collapse". I'm operating of your basic definition here.

Quote:

I do understand your point, don't get me wrong, just seeing it from another angle. If in fact anything like this happens, we are all fucked in one way or another and no one can predict the outcome....

Agreed. But, this scenario that we are all wasting our time bantering on about I see as so remote that I'm betting no one here is actually following through on the compound/security/arms/water/food/off grid thing.

I guess my ass will be back in GA if this happens and I can get there. Might even have to bring my mule out of retirement!

.

Ethersync · 07-18-2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent 488

precious metals have no inherent value. can't eat gold, grow gold, build a house from gold.

if the economy did collapse sitting on your little pile will look silly.

6,000 years of history says you are wrong

wig · 07-18-2011, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

The fact that they were used and therefore had monetary value. Also, I never advocated a pure gold standard, only a fractional reserve commodity standard.

Which in earlier times I agree was the case. I don't think that is true today -- not in the developed world anyway.

There is no doubt that precious metals still have a value premium placed on them when times become uncertain. This uncertainty creates a demand and in a global economy the level of uncertainty that is still in the air has gold up in all currencies. So, contrary to what many people are fixated on, it is not completely US$ dependent. Personally, I think that while it still has years left to work higher, the opportunity in metals will pass. After all, they pay no dividend or return, so it is purely an asset appreciation play.

And I never made mention of what you advocated, so I'm not sure why you slipped that in there.

.

J. Falcon · 07-18-2011, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

from what i've read and seen, a 72 hour survival kit is the best investment.

So you can live 3 more days that the rest?

wig · 07-18-2011, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync

6,000 years of history says you are wrong

Only if you stopped the clock in the 1800's.

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Ethersync · 07-18-2011, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *******

The market in metals still has not hit the "irrational buying frenzy" stage.

Not even close. When gold haters start thinking they need some gold then it will probably be a good time to sell...

dyna mo · 07-18-2011, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Falcon

So you can live 3 more days that the rest?

not sure if serious.

kane · 07-18-2011, 01:30 PM

I hate to break it to people who are stock piling weapons and ammo, but there will be no collapse of modern society in the US. At worst we could have a day or two of unrest if we suffered a major power outage or something like that, but if the recession showed anything it showed that once and for all those with the money rule and they have far too much invested in and far to much riding on this country to just let it collapse.

In short there is a lot more money to be made in keeping Americans fat, happy and watching TV than having the government collapse and letting chaos rule.

More likely what we will see is an election cycle where every few years we throw out the party in power and replace it with the other only to get sick of them and toss them in exchange for the ones we didn't like a few years ago. We are already seeing it. Eventually, that may change and more independents will take office, but it will likely be a slower process that takes 15-20 years and starts at a grass roots level that changes this country not some collapse where things turn into the Road Warrior.

Caligari · 07-18-2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync

Not even close. When gold haters start thinking they need some gold then it will probably be a good time to sell...

Therein lies the folly of gold.
99% of the people who buy it don't need it, they just want it.

wig · 07-18-2011, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethersync

Not even close. When gold haters start thinking they need some gold then it will probably be a good time to sell...

I thought it would be when the barber, the hair dresser and yes, GFY started touting it en masse!

.

DWB · 07-18-2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wig

You are missing the point entirely.

No one is going to trade for gold (or diamonds) under your scenario for exactly the reason Agent 488 stated.

If someone has chickens, I have corn, Agent 488 has water, Nikki_Licks has ammunition and TheDemon has gold, the first four of us are going to barter but TheDemon is going to have a hard time finding someone to accept his gold until such time that there is enough order that a monetary vehicle becomes efficient.

This is simply not true. Gold was bought and sold during the Argentina collapse (and probably in every other collapse). Black markets sprung up and they were buying specifically gold in large quantities. It was also used for general trading. They even bought, sold, and traded gold jewelry.

Will your neighbor trade for it? Probably not. But can you sell it and trade it at the markets? If history repeats itself you will be able to.

But a smart person isn't only going to have gold. They are going to have real life items that people will want and need.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wig

Worrying about this scenario should only be for those attired with tin foil hats.

So said the people in:

China
Germany
Russia
Argentina
The United States Of America
... and so on.

All have fallen on their ass before. No one has to have a tin foil hat on to know that it can and probably will happen again. It's only a matter of when.

Shit happens. History doesn't lie and always repeats itself.

Ethersync · 07-18-2011, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

I hate to break it to people who are stock piling weapons and ammo, but there will be no collapse of modern society in the US.

I agree 100%. I fully expect there will eventually be some kind of monetary "reset" and I am sure there will be some civil unrest (maybe even a substantial amount of it), but those expecting things to go Mad Max are going to be disappointed.

Agent 488 · 07-18-2011, 01:37 PM

fuck gold i'm going with bitcoins.

dyna mo · 07-18-2011, 01:42 PM

mr. bernanke, are bitcoins money?

DWB · 07-18-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

I hate to break it to people who are stock piling weapons and ammo, but there will be no collapse of modern society in the US. At worst we could have a day or two of unrest if we suffered a major power outage or something like that, but if the recession showed anything it showed that once and for all those with the money rule and they have far too much invested in and far to much riding on this country to just let it collapse.

Depends on the level of collapse and what part of the USA you're standing in.

If everyone wakes up tomorrow and the USD is worthless and they can't buy food, good luck with your theory of peace and love. It will probably turn into chaos pretty quick until the local authorities and National Guard step in. Americans are generally pussies these days so I doubt if Joe and Clara from Indiana are going to get out of line, but in the cities where you already have a high crime rate, I wouldn't want to be there.

wig · 07-18-2011, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

This is simply not true. Gold was bought and sold during the Argentina collapse (and probably in every other collapse). Black markets sprung up and they were buying specifically gold in large quantities. It was also used for general trading. They even bought, sold, and traded gold jewelry.

Will your neighbor trade for it? Probably not. But can you sell it and trade it at the markets? If history repeats itself you will be able to.

But a smart person isn't only going to have gold. They are going to have real life items that people will want and need.

So said the people in:

China
Germany
Russia
Argentina
The United States Of America
... and so on.

All have fallen on their ass before. No one has to have a tin foil hat on to know that it can and probably will happen again. It's only a matter of when.

Shit happens. History doesn't lie and always repeats itself.

The point I was making, which you seem to have not appreciated, is that if the US experiences a hyperinflation like Argentina did, the version of "collapse" that we'll be dealing with will not be the same version of "collapse" that Argentina or Zimbabwe went through.

The world didn't miss a beat then. On the other hand, if you apply the same economics to the US as the worlds reserve currency issuer, in a global economy and where systemic risk is attached to the world, you end up with a scenario where gold doesn't mean shit because as was said, you can't eat it, sleep under it, etc.

We are talking past each other because we've widened the distance between the definitions of "collapse".

.

DWB · 07-18-2011, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

from what i've read and seen, a 72 hour survival kit is the best investment.

Food storage (3 - 12 months), water supply, medicine, weapons, anything else you think you'd miss if the store was closed, and some gold / silver if you are in a position to have it.

What do you WANT everyday?

Cigarettes
Coffee
Snacks

What do you NEED every day?

Food
Clean Water
Medicine
Batteries
Matches / Lighter
Fuel
Toilet Paper

Stock up on what you can't do without.

It's also cheaper to buy in bulk, so do so and rotate your stored food and save some money along the way.

JFK · 07-18-2011, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caligari

that is the hollywood scenario, the real scenario in these times is far more bleak. you need only to read the news over the past few years.

the social body may self organize, but will do so in primitive tribal groups who largely understand politics like insects. in other words they don't.

just think in terms of these casey anthony mobs and imagine them without a leash.

Mad Max

DWB · 07-18-2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wig

The point I was making, which you seem to have not appreciated, is that if the US experiences a hyperinflation like Argentina did, the version of "collapse" that we'll be dealing with will not be the same version of "collapse" that Argentina or Zimbabwe went through.

The world didn't miss a beat then. On the other hand, if you apply the same economics to the US as the worlds reserve currency issuer, in a global economy and where systemic risk is attached to the world, you end up with a scenario where gold doesn't mean shit because as was said, you can't eat it, sleep under it, etc.

We are talking past each other because we've widened the distance between the definitions of "collapse".

Yes, I agree all of this hinges on what the definition of what a "collapse" would be.

I honestly have no idea how it will play out, but I don't want to be left holding my dick if the worst happens. Doesn't take much money to be a little prepared for the worst and just hope it never happens.

dyna mo · 07-18-2011, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

They've already done many studies on this and it depends on the type of scenario. In the past when natural disasters or a public upraising happens the government was able to take an offensive approach to fix the problem due to the problem being secular.

If the economy collapses this will cause chaos in mass and the government can't possibly control this and will take the defensive posture to insure they can govern after the smoke clears. Meaning, you're on your own and look how long it took for them to restore order in NO-Katrina and LA- Riots. Now imagine this nationwide and it will take at least a month for some type or order to be restored.

i guess i can see the difference, perhaps an economic collapse would require a unique set of skills and resources but statistically, an full econ collapse has little chance of happening eh..

statistically, collapse will be regional, like the tsunami in japan. or haiti.

i don't see any u.s. collapse, other than the one you mention, requiring more than a 3 day nut to get by on. btw, i am not disagreeing with you, these are just my views for myself.

wig · 07-18-2011, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

Yes, I agree all of this hinges on what the definition of what a "collapse" would be.

I honestly have no idea how it will play out, but I don't want to be left holding my dick if the worst happens. Doesn't take much money to be a little prepared for the worst and just hope it never happens.

Yeah, I don't think anyone does. That said, I seriously doubt we'll see the worst case scenario and I do see preparing for that as tin foil hat crazy. Things will just be too far gone and I'm not going to move my family back to my farm and stock up just to wait for a remote possibility that the world collapses into Mad Max IV.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that those worried about guns/water/MRE's etc are only focused on that because they have no real wealth to deal with.

There are in my view ideas that can be followed through on that seem more realistic to the risks that may come to pass, but they are more about protecting wealth and assets, and capitalizing on changes in the financial systems and markets.

.

dyna mo · 07-18-2011, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

The truth is I want to be wrong, but why not plan for the worst and hope for the best?

no, i hear ya. and i try and think that way too, but in all honesty, i simply cannot envision a complete breakdown such that i'll need to shoot em up. i think the only way that could happen is by asteroid/meteor or a yosemite caldera full eruption kinda thing. and if that's the case, i'll prolly be one of the 1/2 burned up peeps and not have any hands/arms to shoot with anyway eh. lol

kane · 07-18-2011, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

Depends on the level of collapse and what part of the USA you're standing in.

If everyone wakes up tomorrow and the USD is worthless and they can't buy food, good luck with your theory of peace and love. It will probably turn into chaos pretty quick until the local authorities and National Guard step in. Americans are generally pussies these days so I doubt if Joe and Clara from Indiana are going to get out of line, but in the cities where you already have a high crime rate, I wouldn't want to be there.

For sure. If you live in Los Angeles or New York any big major city the level of unrest will likely be much higher than other places.

Most likely there would be small pockets of unrest here and there and within 48 hours the government would have a solution and all would be fine at least for the moment.

The best thing anyone can do is have enough food and water on hand to last them 48 hours and just wait it out. But that is common sense no matter what. There can be weather/natural events that can knock out power for days or cause problems where there is no civil unrest, but having a flashlight and some extra food on hand could come in very handy.

kane · 07-18-2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

no, i hear ya. and i try and think that way too, but in all honesty, i simply cannot envision a complete breakdown such that i'll need to shoot em up. i think the only way that could happen is by asteroid/meteor or a yosemite caldera full eruption kinda thing. and if that's the case, i'll prolly be one of the 1/2 burned up peeps and not have any hands/arms to shoot with anyway eh. lol

I agree. Short of a catastrophic world event I can't see there becoming some kind of crazy situation where people are shooting and killing each other over food on a mass scale.

DWB · 07-18-2011, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

i guess i can see the difference, perhaps an economic collapse would require a unique set of skills and resources but statistically, an full econ collapse has little chance of happening eh..

statistically, collapse will be regional, like the tsunami in japan. or haiti.

I'm in Thailand and we're preparing here.

There was a financial collapse of Asia in 1997 so we have a decent idea of what to expect here should it ripple this way. And if the global shit does hit the fan, I want to be around old school farmers and fishermen who probably won't skip a beat should the western world fall apart.

This side of the world will be a good place to be if the worst happens.

wig · 07-18-2011, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

There was a financial collapse of Asia in 1997 so we have a decent idea of what to expect here should it ripple this way.

What happened in 1997 from your purview and what do people where you are expect should we see another 2008 that morphs into a global credit fiasco (since that seems the most recent empirical event to base something on)?

.

Emil · 07-18-2011, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

What do you NEED every day?

Food
Clean Water
Medicine
Batteries
Matches / Lighter
Fuel
Toilet Paper

Stock up on what you can't do without.

It's also cheaper to buy in bulk, so do so and rotate your stored food and save some money along the way.

Toilet paper? Have you ever whiped your ass with leaves and moss? It works.

DWB · 07-18-2011, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wig

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that those worried about guns/water/MRE's etc are only focused on that because they have no real wealth to deal with

Go read up on how Robert Kiyosaki is preparing. That guy is crazy rich, and crazy prepared.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

The best thing anyone can do is have enough food and water on hand to last them 48 hours and just wait it out. But that is common sense no matter what. There can be weather/natural events that can knock out power for days or cause problems where there is no civil unrest, but having a flashlight and some extra food on hand could come in very handy.

7 days is a good starting point. My power has been out for longer than 48 hours before.

Agent 488 · 07-18-2011, 02:43 PM

in egypt people just organized and policed their own neighborhoods, kept peace, directed traffic. like i said before you are either too bitter, watch too many hollywood movies or borh.

DWB · 07-18-2011, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emil

Toilet paper? Have you ever whiped your ass with leaves and moss? It works.

It does. So does a little water.

wig · 07-18-2011, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

Go read up on how Robert Kiyosaki is preparing. That guy is crazy rich, and crazy prepared.

Sure, why not. But what does this have to do what what I wrote?

.

kane · 07-18-2011, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

7 days is a good starting point. My power has been out for longer than 48 hours before.

When I was a kid we had a nasty storm that knocked the power out to the entire town I lived in (very small town) for about 4 days. We were lucky because it was winter and cold but our house had an earth stove as its primary source of heat so we were warm. After a day the local grocery store opened up for business. He had generators to keep his freezers and coolers working and he had a few lights, but mostly when you walked in they handed yo a flashlight and let you shop. At the end they added it up via calculator and you either paid via cash or check this was the 1980's so there weren't really debit cards yet. It was interesting to see how the town kind of came together.

However, if that same thing happened in a big city that already has a lot of crime I could see chaos.

Agent 488 · 07-18-2011, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

When I was a kid we had a nasty storm that knocked the power out to the entire town I lived in (very small town) for about 4 days. We were lucky because it was winter and cold but our house had an earth stove as its primary source of heat so we were warm. After a day the local grocery store opened up for business. He had generators to keep his freezers and coolers working and he had a few lights, but mostly when you walked in they handed yo a flashlight and let you shop. At the end they added it up via calculator and you either paid via cash or check this was the 1980's so there weren't really debit cards yet. It was interesting to see how the town kind of came together.

However, if that same thing happened in a big city that already has a lot of crime I could see chaos.

the same thing would happen. the city would just break up to the neighborhood level.

kane · 07-18-2011, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

It might turn to this over a period of time and we were very close to a catastrophic world event in 2008. Do you actually think a prison guard, jailer, Judge, prosecutor, or police will put their life at risk in hopes the system will pay them down the road?

Although Katrina was a secular disaster, 60% of the police walked off the job after the first 4 days and it took 10 days to organize the national guard. This will be a nationwide problem and the NG only numbers 500k and there is no way they can protect 310 million Americans.

Does this mean it's road warrior time and shit like that? - No, because people are generally good by nature, but when there is a lack of food, medication, or basic public service they turn to animals. Plus there is a certain segment of the society who want to see total chaos and will instigate score settling.

In short, it's not about the collapse of our financial system, but trust in our government or anyone that might spew the same rhetoric.

I actually think many if not most people blindly trust in our government. We have a voter turnout rate of 40-50% that means at least half the people old enough to vote can't be bothered to get off their ass for a few hours every 4 years. Clearly some of them are just anti-government and see no use in voting, but many of them just don't care or are content.

Aside from a major catastrophic event like an asteroid or some polar shift, what do you see that could cause this chaos on a nationwide scale?

jalami · 07-18-2011, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wig

Why limit it to just those two currencies? I wish people would stop repeating your statement as if to single out the US Dollar or Euro.

I single them out as the primary currencies that gold is priced and traded in. But yes, every paper currency is slowly swirling down the drain.

kane · 07-18-2011, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

When it comes to voter turnout IMO it has nothing to do with they "can't be bothered" type thing. It has everything to with it does not really matter due to our 2 party system. When you have to raise a 1/2 a billion to run, is there really a point to go out and vote? - ..or maybe you're right, they can't be bothered.

A catastrophic financial event (that almost happened in 2008) is much worse because the average American lives cheque to cheque PLUS 70 million Americans get federal or State assistance to help them survive. Now imagine this assistance is all gone tomorrow?

While I am sure there are some people who don't bother to vote because the 2 party system is messed up and they feel it doesn't matter, I think a lot of people just don't care or can't be bothered. I meet people all the time who are clueless of the world around them. They don't follow the news or anything remotely like it and if they do know about world events it is a fucked up skewed view that a co-worker or friend gave them. They are just apathetic to anything that doesn't involve them directly in their day to day lives.

Could the US government not step in during a financial crisis and just guarantee the money? It seems to me if the dollar collapsed they could either just print more or make a statement guaranteeing that they will cover the lost value so that people can still buy the stuff they need. It would run up massive debt, but it could avert a crisis.

To me we are just too big to fail. There are many other countries that rely on us and if we go much of the world goes with us so I think others would step in and help prop us up if needed. It could cause some issues and there could be some problems with unrest. It wouldn't be pretty , but I don't think it would be as ugly as a lot of people might think (meaning civil war and people killing each other for food type of stuff).

wig · 07-18-2011, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

I'd normally agree with you, but not after 2008. We were very close to a full market collapse and if you were someone with real wealth, how couldn't you insure personal security for you/family in the worse case scenario after that? Again, hope for the best, but plan for the worst because we are far from "out of the woods" on this problem.

We're on the same page.

What I'm talking about is not whether you made sure you had supplies similar to how you would prepare for a natural disaster but the guys who buys gold / silver, load up some cash, buy an assault rifle or two and enough ammunition to defend the cabin he's moved into where he's set up his own water collection system, planted a garden, started raising laying hens and broilers, cut and split 10 years of firewood, installed a high-tech intruder alert system and set booby-traps around his "assets".

.

wig · 07-18-2011, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalami

I single them out as the primary currencies that gold is priced and traded in. But yes, every paper currency is slowly swirling down the drain.

Or maybe it does not have as much to do with weak currencies as it does with uncertainty (and thus demand) when gold is going higher in strong currencies as well.

.

Ramirez · 07-18-2011, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Honcho

I always get my investment advice from GFY forums too.

your not the only one.

kane · 07-18-2011, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

I'll always take the worst case scenario in a discussion because the only direction is up. What is fact, we as a country just can't keep printing money to cover all problems because we are truly broke.

Anyway, the point is there is no possible way in our lifetime we'd be able to pay off the debt. The economy is stagnate, there is no new job growth, unemployment is at it highest in decades, there is a gluten of empty homes, and the markets have not recovered to the 97 level. So instead of the government making cutbacks, they print more money to insure temporary confidence.

We need leaders right now to make tough decisions, but they'd rather argue on who's getting the bigger shrimp at the buffet table and ignore the fact, they're sailing on the titanic or maybe not? We are not too big to fail because sooner or later they'll have to be cuts because we can't keep printing money.

Our government won't explain a solution for the biggest crisis here and now. As of Jan 1, 10,000 Baby-boomers a day are retiring and will continue for the next 20 years. Most Americans haven't a clue on how big this problem truly is. Meaning, in the next 10 years the entire population of Canada comparatively, will be receiving SSI and subsidized health benefits.

Besides the fact, millions of these retirees lost their 401's in 2008 we don't even have a solid plan and can't afford to pay them, accept by printing more money. One side says, we will NOT cut spending as the other side says, we will not raise taxes. Solution, raise the debt limit, and print more money!

Wig is one of the brightest guys on this board financially, but I am leaning towards DWB opinion. If we don't do something right now and cutback on all social programs, spending, and increase taxes, we'll wake up to a market crash. Why? we keep printing money causing a weaker dollar that erodes investor confidence.

You see it's not just about how much gold or oil you control, it's always been about confidence in the system. People feel afraid, they won't buy, this causes more inflation and unemployment. Currently, the government is producing a false confidence when in fact, more people are discovering we are in serious trouble.

IMO, we are buying time. Why? Green technology at best, is a decade away and there is no new market innovations. Right now I believe we are at a standoff with EU in hopes the Euro fails. Matter of fact, I believe we are banking on it because if they split, there will be lot's of new markets to exploit because no one trusts the Chinese.

If we fail, we are worse then broke and fail to see why States like Texas, Arizona, or any other red state would not consider succession. This means the EU won.

I don't doubt for a second that if we don't do something we could have an economic crash. that is a very real possiblility. I just don't think it will turn into a shooting revolution mad max kind of thing a lot of people are preparing for. It will look a lot like the depression with soup lines and families living in tents in the park.

That said, there is a huge difference between a crash and a collapse and I just don't think we will collapse. A collapse would bring about a whole new system of government in this country and that isn't going to happen, at least not in our lifetime.

facialfreak · 07-18-2011, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent 488

precious metals have no inherent value. can't eat gold, grow gold, build a house from gold.

if the economy did collapse sitting on your little pile will look silly.

OMFG!!! ARE YOU FOR REAL?!?!

Everybody listen to agent448, and put all your life savings into your favorite FIAT CURRENCY!!

Just remember that fiat currencies are BACKED BY YOUR COUNTRY'S DEBT!!!!!

Let's raise the debt ceiling some more.... turn on those printing presses!! WOOO HOOOO!!!

Agent 488 · 07-18-2011, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by facialfreak

OMFG!!! ARE YOU FOR REAL?!?!

Everybody listen to agent448, and put all your life savings into your favorite FIAT CURRENCY!!

Just remember that fiat currencies are BACKED BY YOUR COUNTRY'S DEBT!!!!!

Let's raise the debt ceiling some more.... turn on those printing presses!! WOOO HOOOO!!!

as usual you don`t read or understand frog.

DWB · 07-18-2011, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

I just don't think it will turn into a shooting revolution mad max kind of thing a lot of people are preparing for. It will look a lot like the depression with soup lines and families living in tents in the park.

Soup lines and tent parks is exactly what will happen.

But there will also be people who will try to take what they want. Count on that. It's because of those dick heads that people should arm themselves.

Vendot · 07-19-2011, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

Soup lines and tent parks is exactly what will happen.

Really? Thats scary. I cant imagine that happening in a todays depression. Somehow, I imagine that we have moved on from that.... but maybe im naive.

By the way, to the dude who asked before about how to buy and store gold. One good way is:

http://goldmoney.com

They store the gold for a fee but you can also request physical delivery of the gold at any time, again for a fee. For most people though, id suggest thinking about purchasing stock in one of the major gold mining companies - you can profit much more this way than by physical gold itself. Owning physical gold means youre looking for the marginal difference between cost basis and market value, where as with gold miners they are earning the difference between their fixed cost of extracting it from the ground and the market value (which in todays market, is a big chunk of change).

07-18-2011, 01:30 PM	#64
kane Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: portland, OR Posts: 20,684	I hate to break it to people who are stock piling weapons and ammo, but there will be no collapse of modern society in the US. At worst we could have a day or two of unrest if we suffered a major power outage or something like that, but if the recession showed anything it showed that once and for all those with the money rule and they have far too much invested in and far to much riding on this country to just let it collapse. In short there is a lot more money to be made in keeping Americans fat, happy and watching TV than having the government collapse and letting chaos rule. More likely what we will see is an election cycle where every few years we throw out the party in power and replace it with the other only to get sick of them and toss them in exchange for the ones we didn't like a few years ago. We are already seeing it. Eventually, that may change and more independents will take office, but it will likely be a slower process that takes 15-20 years and starts at a grass roots level that changes this country not some collapse where things turn into the Road Warrior.

07-18-2011, 01:37 PM	#69
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	fuck gold i'm going with bitcoins.

07-18-2011, 01:42 PM	#70
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 64,785	mr. bernanke, are bitcoins money?

07-18-2011, 02:43 PM	#85
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	in egypt people just organized and policed their own neighborhoods, kept peace, directed traffic. like i said before you are either too bitter, watch too many hollywood movies or borh.