Originally posted by Jesus H Christ
maybe i will put together a book on what really happens during a collapse and what to expect.
hint: after a quick dissolution the social body starts to self-organize.
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american's lean on hollywood for their collapse scenarios too much.
maybe i will put together a book on what really happens during a collapse and what to expect.
hint: after a quick dissolution the social body starts to self-organize. -
yes. a clean water source is simple for anyone. buy a 1000 gallon tank (not expensive) and elevate it so you have running water source (not much power but at least its running).Originally posted by Jesus H Christ
4 people could get away with using 10 gallons a day so you have 100 days of water, if you have any land you have a garden along with canned goods etc, gas stove (with min 50 gal of propane stored somewhere) and of course guns and bullets. and as you say a variety of medicines.
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that is the hollywood scenario, the real scenario in these times is far more bleak. you need only to read the news over the past few years.
the social body may self organize, but will do so in primitive tribal groups who largely understand politics like insects. in other words they don't.
just think in terms of these casey anthony mobs and imagine them without a leash. ATTN Webmasters Cruel Bucks - LIVE Gonzo Does Not Pay
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BingoOriginally posted by Jesus H Christ
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from what i've read and seen, a 72 hour survival kit is the best investment.Originally posted by Jesus H ChristComment
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I'm sorry, what items did you mention? The gold and diamonds? If that's what you meant I don't think they have much value in a "collapse". They have value as a commodity which increases as a hedge in uncertain times, but that is because investors, while uncertain, are not envisioning going back 200 years or they would be doing the compound/security/arms/water/food/off grid thing.
Agreed. In "collapse" mode this will be happening in areas. But, like has been mentioned, I can envision places like where I have my farm in North Georgia where people ban together and share/barter to get by and this includes security.The people with weapons and ammo will not bother with trading; they will simply shoot you and take what they want.
In Panama City, Panama where I live now, probably not a great place to be. lol
Understood. I mentioned that it would come down to how you define "collapse". I'm operating of your basic definition here.When I think of collapse, I think of all out total ciaos and each man for him self?.. maybe I am understanding collapse differently than you folks ;)
Agreed. But, this scenario that we are all wasting our time bantering on about I see as so remote that I'm betting no one here is actually following through on the compound/security/arms/water/food/off grid thing.I do understand your point, don't get me wrong, just seeing it from another angle. If in fact anything like this happens, we are all fucked in one way or another and no one can predict the outcome....
I guess my ass will be back in GA if this happens and I can get there. Might even have to bring my mule out of retirement!
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Which in earlier times I agree was the case. I don't think that is true today -- not in the developed world anyway.
There is no doubt that precious metals still have a value premium placed on them when times become uncertain. This uncertainty creates a demand and in a global economy the level of uncertainty that is still in the air has gold up in all currencies. So, contrary to what many people are fixated on, it is not completely US$ dependent. Personally, I think that while it still has years left to work higher, the opportunity in metals will pass. After all, they pay no dividend or return, so it is purely an asset appreciation play.
And I never made mention of what you advocated, so I'm not sure why you slipped that in there.
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I hate to break it to people who are stock piling weapons and ammo, but there will be no collapse of modern society in the US. At worst we could have a day or two of unrest if we suffered a major power outage or something like that, but if the recession showed anything it showed that once and for all those with the money rule and they have far too much invested in and far to much riding on this country to just let it collapse.
In short there is a lot more money to be made in keeping Americans fat, happy and watching TV than having the government collapse and letting chaos rule.
More likely what we will see is an election cycle where every few years we throw out the party in power and replace it with the other only to get sick of them and toss them in exchange for the ones we didn't like a few years ago. We are already seeing it. Eventually, that may change and more independents will take office, but it will likely be a slower process that takes 15-20 years and starts at a grass roots level that changes this country not some collapse where things turn into the Road Warrior.Comment
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This is simply not true. Gold was bought and sold during the Argentina collapse (and probably in every other collapse). Black markets sprung up and they were buying specifically gold in large quantities. It was also used for general trading. They even bought, sold, and traded gold jewelry.
Will your neighbor trade for it? Probably not. But can you sell it and trade it at the markets? If history repeats itself you will be able to.
But a smart person isn't only going to have gold. They are going to have real life items that people will want and need.
So said the people in:
China
Germany
Russia
Argentina
The United States Of America
... and so on.
All have fallen on their ass before. No one has to have a tin foil hat on to know that it can and probably will happen again. It's only a matter of when.
Shit happens. History doesn't lie and always repeats itself.Comment
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fuck gold i'm going with bitcoins.Comment
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mr. bernanke, are bitcoins money?Comment
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Depends on the level of collapse and what part of the USA you're standing in.
If everyone wakes up tomorrow and the USD is worthless and they can't buy food, good luck with your theory of peace and love. It will probably turn into chaos pretty quick until the local authorities and National Guard step in. Americans are generally pussies these days so I doubt if Joe and Clara from Indiana are going to get out of line, but in the cities where you already have a high crime rate, I wouldn't want to be there.Comment
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The point I was making, which you seem to have not appreciated, is that if the US experiences a hyperinflation like Argentina did, the version of "collapse" that we'll be dealing with will not be the same version of "collapse" that Argentina or Zimbabwe went through.
The world didn't miss a beat then. On the other hand, if you apply the same economics to the US as the worlds reserve currency issuer, in a global economy and where systemic risk is attached to the world, you end up with a scenario where gold doesn't mean shit because as was said, you can't eat it, sleep under it, etc.
We are talking past each other because we've widened the distance between the definitions of "collapse".
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Food storage (3 - 12 months), water supply, medicine, weapons, anything else you think you'd miss if the store was closed, and some gold / silver if you are in a position to have it.
What do you WANT everyday?
Cigarettes
Coffee
Snacks
What do you NEED every day?
Food
Clean Water
Medicine
Batteries
Matches / Lighter
Fuel
Toilet Paper
Stock up on what you can't do without.
It's also cheaper to buy in bulk, so do so and rotate your stored food and save some money along the way.Comment
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Yes, I agree all of this hinges on what the definition of what a "collapse" would be.
I honestly have no idea how it will play out, but I don't want to be left holding my dick if the worst happens. Doesn't take much money to be a little prepared for the worst and just hope it never happens.Comment
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i guess i can see the difference, perhaps an economic collapse would require a unique set of skills and resources but statistically, an full econ collapse has little chance of happening eh..Originally posted by Jesus H Christ
statistically, collapse will be regional, like the tsunami in japan. or haiti.
i don't see any u.s. collapse, other than the one you mention, requiring more than a 3 day nut to get by on. btw, i am not disagreeing with you, these are just my views for myself.Comment
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Yeah, I don't think anyone does. That said, I seriously doubt we'll see the worst case scenario and I do see preparing for that as tin foil hat crazy. Things will just be too far gone and I'm not going to move my family back to my farm and stock up just to wait for a remote possibility that the world collapses into Mad Max IV.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that those worried about guns/water/MRE's etc are only focused on that because they have no real wealth to deal with.
There are in my view ideas that can be followed through on that seem more realistic to the risks that may come to pass, but they are more about protecting wealth and assets, and capitalizing on changes in the financial systems and markets.
.Last edited by wig; 07-18-2011, 01:12 PM.Comment
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no, i hear ya. and i try and think that way too, but in all honesty, i simply cannot envision a complete breakdown such that i'll need to shoot em up. i think the only way that could happen is by asteroid/meteor or a yosemite caldera full eruption kinda thing. and if that's the case, i'll prolly be one of the 1/2 burned up peeps and not have any hands/arms to shoot with anyway eh. lolOriginally posted by Jesus H ChristLast edited by dyna mo; 07-18-2011, 01:14 PM.Comment
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For sure. If you live in Los Angeles or New York any big major city the level of unrest will likely be much higher than other places.
Most likely there would be small pockets of unrest here and there and within 48 hours the government would have a solution and all would be fine at least for the moment.
The best thing anyone can do is have enough food and water on hand to last them 48 hours and just wait it out. But that is common sense no matter what. There can be weather/natural events that can knock out power for days or cause problems where there is no civil unrest, but having a flashlight and some extra food on hand could come in very handy.Comment
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I'm in Thailand and we're preparing here.
There was a financial collapse of Asia in 1997 so we have a decent idea of what to expect here should it ripple this way. And if the global shit does hit the fan, I want to be around old school farmers and fishermen who probably won't skip a beat should the western world fall apart.
This side of the world will be a good place to be if the worst happens.Comment
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in egypt people just organized and policed their own neighborhoods, kept peace, directed traffic. like i said before you are either too bitter, watch too many hollywood movies or borh.Comment
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When I was a kid we had a nasty storm that knocked the power out to the entire town I lived in (very small town) for about 4 days. We were lucky because it was winter and cold but our house had an earth stove as its primary source of heat so we were warm. After a day the local grocery store opened up for business. He had generators to keep his freezers and coolers working and he had a few lights, but mostly when you walked in they handed yo a flashlight and let you shop. At the end they added it up via calculator and you either paid via cash or check this was the 1980's so there weren't really debit cards yet. It was interesting to see how the town kind of came together.
However, if that same thing happened in a big city that already has a lot of crime I could see chaos.Comment
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I actually think many if not most people blindly trust in our government. We have a voter turnout rate of 40-50% that means at least half the people old enough to vote can't be bothered to get off their ass for a few hours every 4 years. Clearly some of them are just anti-government and see no use in voting, but many of them just don't care or are content.Originally posted by Jesus H Christ
Aside from a major catastrophic event like an asteroid or some polar shift, what do you see that could cause this chaos on a nationwide scale?Comment
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While I am sure there are some people who don't bother to vote because the 2 party system is messed up and they feel it doesn't matter, I think a lot of people just don't care or can't be bothered. I meet people all the time who are clueless of the world around them. They don't follow the news or anything remotely like it and if they do know about world events it is a fucked up skewed view that a co-worker or friend gave them. They are just apathetic to anything that doesn't involve them directly in their day to day lives.Originally posted by Jesus H Christ
Could the US government not step in during a financial crisis and just guarantee the money? It seems to me if the dollar collapsed they could either just print more or make a statement guaranteeing that they will cover the lost value so that people can still buy the stuff they need. It would run up massive debt, but it could avert a crisis.
To me we are just too big to fail. There are many other countries that rely on us and if we go much of the world goes with us so I think others would step in and help prop us up if needed. It could cause some issues and there could be some problems with unrest. It wouldn't be pretty , but I don't think it would be as ugly as a lot of people might think (meaning civil war and people killing each other for food type of stuff).Comment
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We're on the same page.Originally posted by Jesus H Christ
What I'm talking about is not whether you made sure you had supplies similar to how you would prepare for a natural disaster but the guys who buys gold / silver, load up some cash, buy an assault rifle or two and enough ammunition to defend the cabin he's moved into where he's set up his own water collection system, planted a garden, started raising laying hens and broilers, cut and split 10 years of firewood, installed a high-tech intruder alert system and set booby-traps around his "assets".
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I don't doubt for a second that if we don't do something we could have an economic crash. that is a very real possiblility. I just don't think it will turn into a shooting revolution mad max kind of thing a lot of people are preparing for. It will look a lot like the depression with soup lines and families living in tents in the park.Originally posted by Jesus H Christ
That said, there is a huge difference between a crash and a collapse and I just don't think we will collapse. A collapse would bring about a whole new system of government in this country and that isn't going to happen, at least not in our lifetime.Comment
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OMFG!!! ARE YOU FOR REAL?!?!
Everybody listen to agent448, and put all your life savings into your favorite FIAT CURRENCY!!
Just remember that fiat currencies are BACKED BY YOUR COUNTRY'S DEBT!!!!!
Let's raise the debt ceiling some more.... turn on those printing presses!! WOOO HOOOO!!!
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as usual you don`t read or understand frog.OMFG!!! ARE YOU FOR REAL?!?!
Everybody listen to agent448, and put all your life savings into your favorite FIAT CURRENCY!!
Just remember that fiat currencies are BACKED BY YOUR COUNTRY'S DEBT!!!!!
Let's raise the debt ceiling some more.... turn on those printing presses!! WOOO HOOOO!!!
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Really? Thats scary. I cant imagine that happening in a todays depression. Somehow, I imagine that we have moved on from that.... but maybe im naive.
By the way, to the dude who asked before about how to buy and store gold. One good way is:
http://goldmoney.com
They store the gold for a fee but you can also request physical delivery of the gold at any time, again for a fee. For most people though, id suggest thinking about purchasing stock in one of the major gold mining companies - you can profit much more this way than by physical gold itself. Owning physical gold means youre looking for the marginal difference between cost basis and market value, where as with gold miners they are earning the difference between their fixed cost of extracting it from the ground and the market value (which in todays market, is a big chunk of change)."In a Time of Universal Deceit, Telling the Truth is a Revolutionary Act." - George OrwellComment
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