Natural Born Cock Blockers....

[SDA CASH - Banned for Life AGAIN]

Have you ever asked another photographer/content shooter to refer a model to you that that you thought would be a great model to shoot
for them to: not respond or make excuses as to why they should not refer a model to another photographer?

I actually will refer models to other shooters, while those same shooters have never ever referred a model to me.
I have several new unknown models to shoot and refer to other photographers.

What is your experience?

Do you condone cock blocking?

[NaughtyRob]

Depends on who the shooter is an his/her intentions with the model. Some models when I am finished shooting all that I can shoot of them and if they don't have an agent I'll send them to only certain other photographers that I trust to not fuck them over, try to become an agent for them etc. Every situation is different.

[ThatOtherGuy - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Big difference between Arizona and Los Angeles.
The dynamic is wholly different. AZ has no agencies so the models goto photographers that constantly talk shit about each other.

I also hear a lot of AZ photographers deal Meth, Oxy and X to models which keeps them in line.

Eddie's past forces him to stay clean and legit and he has always been a clean and sober photographer. It's hard to fight meth dealing photographers if you run a clean shop.

Competing photographers talk tons of shit they say and do anything they can to keep others down. That why Agencies are important where as AZ has none. Its just the nature of the biz.

My excursion into Content Production in LA was fucked from the start, I had no idea how cut throat them fuckers were.

[NaughtyRob]

I dealt with that in Las Vegas, but there are many good guys there that work well together also.

Originally Posted by ThatOtherGuy

Big difference between Arizona and Los Angeles.
The dynamic is wholly different. AZ has no agencies so the models goto photographers that constantly talk shit about each other.

[fitzmulti]

Originally Posted by NaughtyRob

I dealt with that in Las Vegas, but there are many good guys there that work well together also.

Ya...I agree, Rob. I was fortunate that you & I work together so amicably here!

There aren't even a handful of guys here in Vegas that I'd refer girls to.
One less, now that you are in Cali! But, if they go there, you know I would!
;-)

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by SDA CASH

I actually will refer models to other shooters, while those same shooters have never ever referred a model to me.

I would never refer models to a photographer that I didn't have a good rapport with or that I didn't trust. Referring models to creepy shooters is a great way to ruin a stellar reputation.

If you are referring models to other shooters and they're not referring them back, and that hurts your feelings - you should pick up the phone, call them and find out what the issue is. That would be the quickest and most professional way to get your issue resolved

[SDA CASH - Banned for Life AGAIN]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

I would never refer models to a photographer that I didn't have a good rapport with or that I didn't trust. Referring models to creepy shooters is a great way to ruin a stellar reputation.

If you are referring models to other shooters and they're not referring them back, and that hurts your feelings - you should pick up the phone, call them and find out what the issue is. That would be the quickest and most professional way to get your issue resolved

My feelings are not hurt in any way. I can find models in person. Hot unknown, non shot out models.

Pay them $1000 to $1200 per shoot with full intentions of both solo and BG to be put up on SDA for financial return.

What is your definition of creepy?

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by SDA CASH

What is your definition of creepy?

A person who is annoying, unpleasant, obnoxious, repulsive etc.

[SDA CASH - Banned for Life AGAIN]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

A person who is annoying, unpleasant, obnoxious, repulsive etc.

Wow, you are making a very opinionated statement.

What is repulsive to you?

One thing I learned that i was doing wrong during a shoot or small talk with models in Arizona,
is try to NOT advise them they should NOT do drugs especially if they want to follow a modeling/entertainment career.
That turned girls against me right away. So I removed that from the mix.

[NaughtyRob]

Yeah, I've learned that its best to not be captain save a ho because it usually back fires.

Originally Posted by SDA CASH

One thing I learned that i was doing wrong during a shoot or small talk with models in Arizona, is try to advise them they should NOT do drugs especially if they want to follow a modeling/entertainment career. That turned girls against me right away.
So I removed that from the mix.

[ThatOtherGuy - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

A person who is annoying, unpleasant, obnoxious, repulsive etc.

I think that sums up about every photographer in the biz

C-mon you two...
Leave it alone.

[NaughtyRob]

Since good girls are so hard to find some of us "give" the girl to another photographer to both help her get more work and to help the other guy out, he in turn will do the same.

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

Help me out here. I know nothing about shooting content, but why would he or you ? I am assuming he paid for ads to find the woman or convinced her to do a shoot because she is new. Also, the more exclusive the content the more money he makes? So why would he just "give you" a possible paid business lead? - lost

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by NaughtyRob

Since good girls are so hard to find some of us "give" the girl to another photographer to both help her get more work and to help the other guy out, he in turn will do the same.

Yep - it works out great when you have a great rapport with another producer and you can send girls back and forth. And since the producers shoot for different clients - it's a win/win all around.

[Mutt]

Photographers are 99% cock blockers. Model Mayhem is Cock Blocker Central.

[SDA CASH - Banned for Life AGAIN]

Originally Posted by NaughtyRob

Since good girls are so hard to find some of us "give" the girl to another photographer to both help her get more work and to help the other guy out, he in turn will do the same.

I believe the same thing:

I try to help the models/girls make more money by referring them to other shooters.

But I disagree with Dean, I can also send a model to a rival/hater shooter that I do not get along with that is legit and pays the model well.

See, this is exactly what i was getting at:
It is NOT fair to the model or anyone involved to not refer them due to a good or bad rapport between rival photographers.
So therefor Thatotherguy is 100% correct, this why Agencies are extremely important. They do act this way, both rival shooters can hire the same model via referral agencies.

Here is what Dean is saying... "I dont like that photographer so I will keep that model from making $1200 from that shooter and not mention or refer her to him or her"

However, I will still send models to Dean.

Originally Posted by Mutt

Photographers are 99% cock blockers. Model Mayhem is Cock Blocker Central.

YES.. You are also 100% correct. Modelmayhem is ran by true creepy GWC's

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by SDA CASH

Wow, you are making a very opinionated statement.

What? You asked me... "What is your definition of creepy?". I replied... "A person who is annoying, unpleasant, obnoxious, repulsive etc".

You asked me a question, I gave you an honest answer. That is my definition of creepy. If you find that offensive, I'm sorry.

What is repulsive to you?

I'm done answering your questions....

[SDA CASH - Banned for Life AGAIN]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

What? You asked me... "What is your definition of creepy?". I replied... "A person who is annoying, unpleasant, obnoxious, repulsive etc".

You asked me a question, I gave you an honest answer. That is my definition of creepy. If you find that offensive, I'm sorry.



I'm done answering your questions....

No problem I do not attend your school of photography anyways.

However, if you see a model that I have shot or worked that you would like to shoot please feel free to ask. Dont let your ego get in the way, Dean.
I do not have your elevated belief system. I will be a professional and refer models to you.

[Mutt]

Eddie cock blocking when you run a paysite isn't just about being a dick or trying to creep on girls - that's Model Mayhem, paysites are a business. And paysites that have exclusive models do better, why do you think Rob has his recruiter when there are more than enough girls from the LA agents? If FTV had nothing but LA girls on it it would not do as well. And your site will do better if it gets a reputation as a site where you will find girls that can't be found anywhere else.

For solo girl sites, it's death to have your solo site model on 20 other sites - guys who join solo girl sites don't want girls they perceive as professional models.

If a girl has no solo site potential I'll refer her to others and have.

[SDA CASH - Banned for Life AGAIN]

Originally Posted by Mutt

Eddie cock blocking when you run a paysite isn't just about being a dick or trying to creep on girls - that's Model Mayhem, paysites are a business. And paysites that have exclusive models do better, why do you think Rob has his recruiter when there are more than enough girls from the LA agents? If FTV had nothing but LA girls on it it would not do as well. And your site will do better if it gets a reputation as a site where you will find girls that can't be found anywhere else.

For solo girl sites, it's death to have your solo site model on 20 other sites - guys who join solo girl sites don't want girls they perceive as professional models.

If a girl has no solo site potential I'll refer her to others and have.

I honestly was not referring to FTV in this thread in any way.

I agree with you for the most part, about keeping brand new girls unique to FIRST TIME MODELS niche.
However I will refer models to other high end classy shooters like Dean, who shoots for a very classy website TWISTYS.

If a model were to ask me "What do you think about me shooting for FTV"
My response would be.. "FTV is legit and will pay you well, maybe you should shoot for them, plus it is a very classy website."

I was still recruiting and shooting for FTV when I knew Rob was bad mouthing me to models and everyone.

That is not why I started this thread though.

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by SDA CASH

I honestly was not referring to FTV in this thread in any way.

I agree with you for the most part, about keeping brand new girls unique to FIRST TIME MODELS niche.
However I will refer models to other high end classy shooters like Dean, who shoots for a very classy website TWISTYS.

If a model were to ask me "What do you think about me shooting for FTV"
My response would be.. "FTV is legit and will pay you well, maybe you should shoot for them, plus it is a very classy website."

I was still recruiting and shooting for FTV when I knew Rob was bad mouthing me to models and everyone.

That is not why I started this thread though.

If you have any nice looking girls without too many tattoos let me know, i'll pay a referral fee or send traffic your way.

[SDA CASH - Banned for Life AGAIN]

Originally Posted by Mutt

If you have any nice looking girls without too many tattoos let me know, i'll pay a referral fee or send traffic your way.

will do...

[JustDaveXxx]

I got a solid reputation in this industry.I pay cash same day, I don't do POV's and I don't try to bang the models. My Rep is everything to me. I live in Porn Valley and its cut throat central here.


I think that SDA Cash and NaughtyRob are the 2 very best recruiters in this thread. I also think that recruiters get the worst shit spoken about them too. I think the key differences is SDA Cash is also a male talent where I do not think NaughtRob is. I think that male talent factor is what can creep out girls or give girls a reason to talk shit and blow shit way out of proportion.


As for Dean Capture, if you live out here, you know he has a solid reputation in this biz.

But,one thing you can always count on here in Porn Valley, is that female talent will talk shit no matter how solid of a rep you got.


The worst thing I have heard from girls about Dean is that he takes too long. I laugh my ass off when I here that shit. I replay "really? Have you seen what kind of work this guy puts out?" Girl responds "No". I ask, "Why did it take so long? Was he trying to bang you or something?" Girl responds, "No, wasn't that but he wanted me to do all of these poses and it took 3 hours and I was tired".


This girl was getting paid her rate and Dean was a total professional and she still manages to attempt to say something bad to me. I laugh may ass off with what some girls say.


At the end of the day all talent have shit to complain about, and we as producers need to sort through what is what.


I take everything like a grain of salt. Unless I here it 10 times over and over from people I respect.

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by JustDaveXxx

I think the key differences is SDA Cash is also a male talent where I do not think NaughtRob is.

Rob does do POV hardcore himself. Rob's a nice guy, never heard any shit talk about him.

All models shit talk photographers and usually it's drawn out of them by photographers - 'who've you shot for?'
'hmm .... well a few days ago I shot for Tom Whatshisface'
'oh that's cool, how did it go?'
'it was ok'
'great, heard a few stories about him, glad it went ok for you though'
'well, he was kind of creepy.................'
'that doesn't sound good, creepy? what did he do? touched you huh? or something else?'

[SDA CASH - Banned for Life AGAIN]

Originally Posted by Mutt

Rob does do POV hardcore himself. Rob's a nice guy, never heard any shit talk about him.

All models shit talk photographers and usually it's drawn out of them by photographers - 'who've you shot for?'
'hmm .... well a few days ago I shot for Tom Whatshisface'
'oh that's cool, how did it go?'
'it was ok'
'great, heard a few stories about him, glad it went ok for you though'
'well, he was kind of creepy.................'
'that doesn't sound good, creepy? what did he do? touched you huh? or something else?'

Yes Dave is 100% dead on

And yes Mutt, other photogs lead a girl into saying what he wants to hear from her out of his own damaged ego.
The girl saves face by adding drama to how he leads her into the shame factor.
The photog says... "wow I cant believe you had sex with with that guy"
She then puts blame on the creep being created by their perception.

YES, Dean Capture does great work. I just dont agree with his belief system.

Buzz, Steve at Lightspeed and I have been shooting in Arizona longer than anyone. Long before FTV.
I have been male talent since 1996, and some how I have become the target of haters and rivals.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by SDA CASH

Have you ever asked another photographer/content shooter to refer a model to you that that you thought would be a great model to shoot
for them to: not respond or make excuses as to why they should not refer a model to another photographer?

I actually will refer models to other shooters, while those same shooters have never ever referred a model to me.
I have several new unknown models to shoot and refer to other photographers.

What is your experience?

Do you condone cock blocking?

it's pretty weird the whole cock blocking thing... I know shooters like that and I can't figure it out for sure... it's like not telling a guy where a particular Mc Donald's is... like WTF??? right???

there are a handfull of shooters I will NOT recomned to model and that's only because the fucking guys WON'T PAY... or they are shilling for an agency on the down low... other than that I stay way the fuck out of the whole damn mess and focus on my shoots...

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by JustDaveXxx

The worst thing I have heard from girls about Dean is that he takes too long. I laugh my ass off when I here that shit. I replay "really? Have you seen what kind of work this guy puts out?" Girl responds "No". I ask, "Why did it take so long? Was he trying to bang you or something?" Girl responds, "No, wasn't that but he wanted me to do all of these poses and it took 3 hours and I was tired".

That is some funny shit right there. I have 3 photo assistants because I know how important it is to move fast and shoot fast "before" the model gets exhausted. The minimum we shoot is 3 sets of pictures and 3 videos and we have to work fast to get all that in a day.

One of the comments that I get the most is how fast we work and how quickly the shoots are over with. We shot Marketa/Chakita from Europe a few days ago and here's part of an email that she sent directly to the client about working with us. He forwarded it to me - it made my day

..."the shoot with Dean was just great, one of my greatest ever, we were fast, we did some really good stuff, he scheduled great MUA (MakeUp Artist), what else shall I say. He´s super nice guy and very good shooter".

If any model complains about us being slow, she must be a compulsive complainer and just looking for something...anything to complain about.

[Mutt]

I was very naive about girls who do this 'work' when I started dealing with photographers and then girls. I'm sure there are a few exceptions but by and large you are dealing with fucked up girls. Sorry to burst anybody's bubble but an 18-22 year old girl with a good head on her shoulders and a solid relationship with her father - try to recruit her into adult modeling or hardcore. Odds are 10,000 to 1 against her saying yes. There are some rare exceptions of girls who are just flat out free spirits and exhibitionists by that age and they want to get into porn and nobody can tell them no, they're going to do it.

I know how these girls 'bite the hand that feeds them' - I wouldn't buy anything they say unless it's pretty obvious she has been basically raped or ripped off financially. All the rest of the stuff is he said she said and not to be taken at face value just because she's young and cute.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Mutt

I was very naive about girls who do this 'work' are when I started dealing with photographers and then girls. I'm sure there are a few exceptions but by and large you are dealing with fucked up girls. Sorry to burst anybody's bubble but an 18-22 year old girl with a good head on her shoulders and a solid relationship with her father - try to recruit her into adult modeling or hardcore. Odds are 10,000 to 1 against her saying yes. There are some rare exceptions of girls who are just flat out free spirits and exhibitionists by that age and they want to get into porn and nobody can tell them no, they're going to do it.

I know how these girls 'bite the hand that feeds them' - I wouldn't buy anything they say unless it's pretty obvious she has been basically raped or ripped off financially. All the rest of the stuff is he said she said and not to be taken at face value just because she's young and cute.

yeah after you get your heart broken about 1000 times you start to wise up

[SDA CASH - Banned for Life AGAIN]

Originally Posted by Mutt

I was very naive about girls who do this 'work' when I started dealing with photographers and then girls. I'm sure there are a few exceptions but by and large you are dealing with fucked up girls. Sorry to burst anybody's bubble but an 18-22 year old girl with a good head on her shoulders and a solid relationship with her father - try to recruit her into adult modeling or hardcore. Odds are 10,000 to 1 against her saying yes. There are some rare exceptions of girls who are just flat out free spirits and exhibitionists by that age and they want to get into porn and nobody can tell them no, they're going to do it.

I know how these girls 'bite the hand that feeds them' - I wouldn't buy anything they say unless it's pretty obvious she has been basically raped or ripped off financially. All the rest of the stuff is he said she said and not to be taken at face value just because she's young and cute.

Wow... here is some great truth again...

However, most men do not like to hear how good another man is, so they tend to lead a girl in to where he can be her savior.
Modelmayhem is full of this shit. I have delt with these wanna be friends that live on modelmayhem like it is the URL on the net.

Arizona photographers "GWC' live on modelmayhem. I have seen it first hand, and yes they all fuck the models, and slam others for doing so.

[JustDaveXxx]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

If any model complains about us being slow, she must be a compulsive complainer and just looking for something...anything to complain about.

I think that 60% of all of the models are compulsive complainers and obviously I realy give no weight to what a model has to say about any person with a reputation such as your.


In the 9 years that I have been in this biz, nobody and I mean absolutely nobody has ever said that you were unprofessional or ever acted inappropriately on set. You have one of the most impeccable reputations in this business.


I model my reputation to people like you.

[SDA CASH - Banned for Life AGAIN]

Originally Posted by JustDaveXxx

I think that 60% of all of the models are compulsive complainers and obviously I realy give no weight to what a model has to say about any person with a reputation such as your.


In the 9 years that I have been in this biz, nobody and I mean absolutely nobody has ever said that you were unprofessional or ever acted inappropriately on set. You have one of the most impeccable reputations in this business.


I model my reputation to people like you.

Yes, models now days feel their pussy is lined with gold and deserve more than $1000 to $2000 per shoot,
so in the end most will never be happy no matter what and how well they treated.

[JustDaveXxx]

Originally Posted by Mutt

Rob does do POV hardcore himself. Rob's a nice guy, never heard any shit talk about him.

All models shit talk photographers and usually it's drawn out of them by photographers - 'who've you shot for?'
'hmm .... well a few days ago I shot for Tom Whatshisface'
'oh that's cool, how did it go?'
'it was ok'
'great, heard a few stories about him, glad it went ok for you though'
'well, he was kind of creepy.................'
'that doesn't sound good, creepy? what did he do? touched you huh? or something else?'

Good for Rob



I think that Photogs in general get jealous of all photogs. I have a lot of director friends that I refer girls to, I do forewarn them that my director friends will try to bang you, but they will hire you again and they do pay.


I know who is who and who does do what. I forewarn the models what to expect. They are big girls, they can handle it. And trying to bang them is fine as long as the girls do get paid and never get forced.

And I have a list, a very short list on directors who are perfect gentlemen and will not try and bag the models.


I leave it up to the models. All but one wanted to deal with every and all of my director friends, even the ones that would try and bang them. That tells me that women are more thick skinned than we men give them credit for.

[JustDaveXxx]

Originally Posted by SDA CASH

Yes, models now days feel their pussy is lined with gold and deserve more than $1000 to $2000 per shoot,
so in the end most will never be happy no matter what and how well they treated.

So quoted for the truth!!!


I see that day in and day out.


I get; "Well my rate is usually $1,100 for BG". I then reply; "Well I booked you for $800 cash same day through your agent, if you have a problem with that, get out of my make up chair and go call your driver and have him drive you to someone that is willing to pay $1,100".


Some of these girls are so fucking annoying!!! And the shit that their agents fill their heads with is un-fucking-believable. I remember when i would hear the, "I want to be the next Jenna Jamasen" line everyday on set. Glad that one is done!!

[Kevin Marx]

Interesting discussion so far.

In response to the original question.........

Referring to another photographer would be something I would do based on my experience with said photographer. If I don't know them or know people that know them and have experience with them, my reputation could be damaged by a bad referral, so I am not willing to trade that for $100 referral fees. Referring to another photographer that I know and trust wouldn't even require a referral fee, but thank you's are always great to get as are return referrals.

Beyond that, most models are funny, odd, crazy, strange, cute, different, interesting, and/or any combination of the above. I love to hear their stories and then wonder how much of them are true and how much are BS. It's all part of the gig and part of what we do.

[SDA CASH - Banned for Life AGAIN]

Originally Posted by Kevin Marx

Interesting discussion so far.

In response to the original question.........

Referring to another photographer would be something I would do based on my experience with said photographer. If I don't know them or know people that know them and have experience with them, my reputation could be damaged by a bad referral, so I am not willing to trade that for $100 referral fees. Referring to another photographer that I know and trust wouldn't even require a referral fee, but thank you's are always great to get as are return referrals.

Beyond that, most models are funny, odd, crazy, strange, cute, different, interesting, and/or any combination of the above. I love to hear their stories and then wonder how much of them are true and how much are BS. It's all part of the gig and part of what we do.

I would have to disagree after some careful thought about this....

If you Kevin refer a model to Dean Capture for an example, and the model and Dean have a major disagreement in any manner, it is NOT your fault.
LA direct would not be in business if that was the case. An agent send models to many different shooters and there are many fallout's and fights amongst models and shooters.
Tanner Mayes for example, she has her side and they have their side, it is not the agents fault they sent her to the shoot. So again it would not hurt your reputation if it does not go as planned.

[SDA CASH - Banned for Life AGAIN]

Oh well very interesting thread.