cherrylula

I will say the money squeeze in the name of saving children is lame. But personally I launch new sites all the time, with various extensions.

I know people are afraid of being filtered, but google already does that somewhat.

Here is a chance for an actual thread with real reasons to be against .xxx, other than conspiracy hater trolls. I think some of the big dogs out there are crying about it too because the money isn't going in their pockets. lol

It would be nice to keep leeching teenagers and third world foreigners off adult sites, but I doubt even .xxx will fix that.

I'd love to hear actual real reasons why this is bad. All I see is whining and hating. Convince me please.

ready, go.

nation-x

This is a sweet guitar solo

cherrylula

Yes, get in here, quick! Lol... love guitar solos.

Rochard

No one would should be able to tell me which domains I need to buy. Seems like none of the money ever raised by ASCAP has ever done any good.

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2intense

FUCK .xxx

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cherrylula

I agree. So you don't want to buy one for that reason? Like rebelling? I can understand that.

I have to admit that I am anxious to own a .xxx domain. Not giving up on my other adult sites, but it is just another extension and an adult one which is pretty cool.

I have never supported any of these "industry" organizations. I worked in the San Fernando Valley, Porn Valley, and with that experience I think all these organizations are fluff. No pun intended. oops.

96ukssob

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BlackCrayon

the .com space is already full of established sites. .xxx will mostly be rip off of those and people trying to protect their marks. just a useless extention that will cause problems.

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will76

yeah i think you nailed it and have it all figured out.



Figures someone who isn't in the industry any more, doesn't have anything to do with adult and is about as smart as a box of rocks would be anxious to own a .xxx domain because it is "cool".

jesus christ, just when you thought GFY couldn't get more stupid.

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nation-x

Redrob

The registration of a trademark is tied to a particular class of products. Therefore, Hustler.com is tied to Hustlers offering of erotica as the class of products. If someone were to register Hustler.xxx, it immediately causes a trademark violation because .XXX, by nature, offers the same class of products.

The choice given Hustler is to defensively register the domain and park it or fight the registration of the domain by a third party should that happen.

Neither option is fair to Hustler and both options cost money without generating any additional revenue.

Quentin

Here are some of the more commonly stated reasons for opposition:

* Some people worry that private entities like VISA or Mastercard might opt to allow their customers to only purchase online porn from sites that reside on the .XXX TLD. As the theory goes, if ICM is successful in painting .XXX sites as the only "responsible" adult sites out there, VISA/MC might see it as a PR boon to disassociate themselves with non-.XXX adult sites.

* There's concern that use of .XXX will become mandatory as a matter of law, either globally or on a country-by-country basis. While there's First Amendment precedent in the U.S. that makes this possibility fairly unlikely within the U.S., many countries don't have something like the First Amendment on the books, and there's no legal or historical precedent to suggest that the governments in these countries could be prevented from crafting and enforcing such a law with respect to their own citizens.

* .XXX will be the first TLD blocked in its entirety by entire regions of the planet. Given the distributed nature of the DNS resolution/support protocol, having an entire TLD that simply doesn't resolve across large swaths of the Internet might not be such a good thing.

* .XXX domains are being offered at many times market price for new, undeveloped names with no existing traffic base, and the list of benefits and added value that ICM has come up with to justify the high sticker price strikes a lot of us as essentially meaningless claptrap couched in feelgood marketing slogans, untested assumptions and unsubstantiated claims.

* ICM has been somewhat less than upfront with the 'community' that this TLD is supposed to serve, leaving that community with little reason to trust them to operate the TLD in way that is in our best interest in the future.

Many other reasons for opposition have been stated, but there's a handful that come to mind off the top of my head.

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cherrylula

Another good reason. But can't people just dmca like they do now, since people already copy sites? It's not like that does not already occur, and people deal with it.

cherrylula

Thank you for this response. Understood.

But is this not already an issue with all other domain extensions? Does Hustler own every domain extension of Hustler already? What if someone uses Hustler.info? I'm sure this is an issue already dealt with.

Maybe charging them a fee to reserve their trademark is easier and cheaper than chasing down the domain owner legally? I'm sure they have done it multiple times already.

Fact is, protecting trademarks costs money. Right?

Are they doing them a favor by allowing them to pre-reserve the url? Or not? Did that also happen when they launched every other extension after .com?

cherrylula

Ok, VISA/MC is always scary, this I know. But I think it is rather far fetched that this would happen because there is so much money involved. I don't give ICM enough credit to do that either. Or anyone. But who knows.

Ok, but aren't there already entire countries like Germany that block all sorts of porn sites? By now some of us target by country anyways, I figure that could be worked around?

So maybe it won't be a good thing. But really, block some of those leeching countries please.

Yeah, douchebags for sure. But business is about making money if the demand is there, right? Porn sites used to be $40+ a month, too.

I've never heard of any adult company being up front, ever. Not when they are holding the money bag. That's no surprise. We're not some sort of union or club. No offense, but "community" is questionable.

Thank you for your constructive input.

Redrob

No, this is not an issue with other domain extensions because as I stated Huster's trademark is tied to a particular class of products: erotica.

If a company that offers travel services, and not erotica, was named Hustler Travel Agency, they could register Hustler as their trademark with the class of products being travel-related services such as hotel bookings and airline ticket sales. They could then use the domain Hustler.travel and not conflict with Hustler.com because they offer different products and services.

This is not the case with the .XXX extension which causes an immediate trademark conflict with adult industry trademarks registered as .coms.

Paul Markham

Actually they should.

A commercial site it should be a .com
An information site a .info
Organisation .org

And so on.

Or do you think the Internet should be without laws?

Unlike the rest of the World.

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cherrylula

Ok, again makes sense. But aren't they giving priority to trademark holders? I would think they'd want their adult extension and it would not be a big deal.

And just for the hell of it I typed in a couple, and hustler.info has adult crap on it already, doesn't look like the trademark owner. hustler.co has a marker page with adult links on it. This is already an issue and they're not enforcing their trademark with them I suppose?

Because yes, .xxx will be hot. I'm not afraid to say it.

ThatOtherGuy - BANNED FOR LIFE

Redrob

The priority given to trademark holder cost them money and does not generate any revenue as I mentioned in my first comment.

Who cares if you are given "priority" to pay for a service that you don't want.

The "Hustler" name is only being used as an example. I do not know what their corporate internet registration policies are.

CaptainHowdy

cherrylula

Well if that is the case then legally it would seem like they can squash this for good, eventually. If it is unfair and no demand, especially by trademark holders.

We've just heard about it for so long, I doubt it will go away that easy.

ThatOtherGuy - BANNED FOR LIFE

Not as far fetched as you think. Major Credit Companies have in the past expressed that adult is risky, they have in the past done things about it, remember Mastercard? Remember American Express? >XXX goes live my bets are on Visa and Mastercard to pull processing adult on .COM's. They will just grandfather in the existing .com processing. Mark my fucking words. It will happen and I will remind you all I was among the first to say it. Go ahead and laugh now. Watch.

Making exceptions for Freedom of Speech is not acceptable. Opening the door makes it ripe for the temptations of overly zealous Politicians. Some already have an agenda when .XXX goes live in the USA. Censorship is unacceptable yet look at us cheering countries that block .XXX. Even blocking .XXX is Censorship. Dark times ahead regarding Censorship expanding on the internet and this TLD is Pandora.

cherrylula

You have to flip things around and make the best of them. Just like old pissing threads always bring attention to one's sig. Right? You should know this! lol

Mastercard still processes adult sites. American Express yeah but they are not Visa/MC.

Politicians always have an agenda! I say bring it! All they will do is bring more attention to it, they will never stop porn. It's free publicity.

I just think this doomsday drama is overkill. Maybe I'm wrong. I guess we will see in the next year regardless, something has to happen.

BlackCrayon

dmca only works if people respond to it. have fun wasting money on .xxx domains. i bet there will be so many shills in their auction it will be next to impossible to get anything for a reasonable price. then in a year or two you'll be trying to sell them before just dropping them. lets be real, if you had any decent .com's you wouldn't be looking forward to .xxx.

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Quentin

I tend to agree with you, except about the part where "so much money" is involved. ;-)

Our entire industry is a drop in the VISA bucket, and it's a drop that they seem to regard as something of a pain in the ass at times -- hence the "high risk" designation they have saddled us with, the 1% chargeback threshold, their unwillingness to regard the merchant's evidence when there is a dispute between a merchant and a cardholder with respect to a 'fraudulent' charge, etc., etc.

Having said that, I don't think VISA would dump all other adult merchants in favor of working with .XXX alone, until/unless the revenue coming from .XXX adult sites is more on par with non-.XXX adult sites.

Germany blocks (some) porn sites that don't adhere to their age verification protocols. Other countries block any and every porn site they identify. Neither of those things is the same as blocking an entire TLD, and from a global/technical infrastructure perspective, that blocking is nowhere near as significant or potentially problematic as a total block on an entire TLD.


True -- and now the market price for porn sites is generally regarded to be lower than that, which sounds like a good reason to NOT pay more for new domain names, to me. ;-)

ICM is offering a product at far higher than its current market value, with no real justification for charging that higher price. The demand for .XXX hasn't even been established yet, and the price is already many, many times the market price for similar products.

Call me crazy, but that doesn't sound like a recipe that should make me want to pay more for .XXX names; if anything, the 'TLD newcomer' to the market, which is offering properties with no established traffic whatsoever, and properties that will be available in fewer geographic markets than competing domain products, should be priced lower than those competing products.


Be that as it may, the adult entertainment industry is the intended "sponsoring community," for .XXX -- the "s" in sTLD, as it were. "Sponsoring Community" is the term used in the application/contract approved by ICANN; I didn't choose that term, ICANN did. ;-)

Beyond that, the question of whether any adult company has ever been up front is irrelevant to the question of whether I should buy .XXX domains.

First off, as they have gone to great lengths to point out on many occasions, ICM is not an adult company.

Second, I'm hard-pressed to think of any adult company that is responsible for operating technical infrastructure that is mission-critical to the function of my business in the way that a group responsible for the management of an entire TLD is.

IMO, there's simply no analogy between ICM's role here and the role of any third-party adult company with respect to the daily operation of our company. As such, the question of whether I trust them with the fine print is more salient than it would be if I were merely trading traffic with them, or merely distributing content through them.

You're welcome.

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ThatOtherGuy - BANNED FOR LIFE

You are wrong.
Business will continue but the final eventuality will be on .XXX for adult transactions. Thats not fear mongering its fact.

cherrylula

Awesome info Quentin, thanks again.

I'm just an adult webmaster, I don't participate in conventions, so I am not in the know about a lot of those details. I'm sure I am not alone.

I see people just bashing it with no real reason here on gfy and it makes me want to do the opposite, because haters gonna hate. lol

I still don't think visa will ever just stop processing adult. High risk, yes, but not adult specific. Even paypal will process adult hard goods, just not digital subscriptions as that is the chargeback risk. It might be a small portion of their business, but if they stopped processing based on obscene content, someone out there would try to take that money. FACT.

Herd

If u truly worked in The Valley, then u should know exactly how the porn game works.

If .XXX becomes law for net porn, most independent porners (which is us) will not be working anymore. Big studios have to end piracy. By controlling all adult traffic, they could stop the pirates flow, along with eliminating the niche markets, taking over the cam's traffic and anything else that competes with their own sites.

With ICM's and IFFOR rules and policies, and 5 board members overseeing and enforcement of all adult websites, is without question, the clearest formula of a monopoly.

Which means is if law is passed, most of us will be without a job.

cherrylula

Wrong about what? Final eventuality of what?

Supply and Demand ftw

cherrylula

This doesn't really make sense to me. Are you saying they will create regulations regarding the use of .xxx that the average adult webmaster will not be able to meet? And yeah, I worked in Chatsworth for a good few years for different companies. Isn't stopping the pirates good? How are they going to keep me from making money with my .xxx site? It is competition already.

I guess I need to look up these rules and policies. I don't have a job, I run sites and make money.

cherrylula

I am already redoing my adult network. I plan on making everything pg rated and just link my .xxx site from there. All this other drama, I don't see how it will affect me unless I have to somehow qualify to own a .xxx site. I'll pay more, within reason. I have no trademarks. So maybe I just don't care about this other stuff because it will not affect me. Who knows.

But I remember when VISA and ccbill started charging $750 to process porn sites. People thought that was the end of it all too, but business went on. And it weeded out a lot of crap.

I don't have any hangups about asking questions here, and getting actual info other than dumbass hater comments. I make money and would like to really understand what is going on.

BlackCrayon

sounds like you've said it all. you have no established sites that someone else will register the .xxx version of, or have to fight in auction for, etc, etc. you don't have much to lose unlke many others who have 100's or thousands of established sites and domains.

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cherrylula

I have plenty of established sites people could register the .xxx version of, but yeah I'm no huge player. No trademarks but lots of branded sites, and .coms. I've been ripped off and copied enough and have dealt with it. Part of business. But sure there are those with more going on, against this. If someone rips me off with a .xxx version of my site I will take action as I have in the past. I do understand the issue, I just tend to think it is unavoidable, this .xxx, maybe I am wrong.

I just look at it as another frontier. I like things like that.

lazycash

So how much is reasonable for you to pay for .xxx? If you take all the domains you have now and instead of $10/yr per domain to renew, its $100/yr per .xxx domain, is that within reason for you?

cherrylula

I know you like to troll, but this thread isn't about me and my domains. It's about reasons to be against .xxx.

My plans for my business aren't something I am going to explain to a troll, nor anyone else other than generally speaking.

Do you have anything to contribute to the thread topic, other than sticking your head up my ass?

will76

words to live by folks and great business advice there. Everyone should jot that down, words to live by...



A topic that has been talked about A LENGTH on GFY and several others boards, ADULT resource sites, videos of dot xxx seminars posted etc and this *person* obviously hasn't read or watched any of that. Has no clue what .xxx is all about and even after asking people to try to "Convince me please" why dot xxx is a bad thing, and has gotten very articulated intelligent replies, but she still has her mind made up that:

.xxx is very *cool* and she is anxious to have one.
she supports it because the trolls and haters are against it.
claims... you can just dmca the .xxx sites that rip off your .com
thinks... "xxx will be hot. I'm not afraid to say it"
says.. "I just don't care about this other stuff because it will not affect me."
says... "people just bashing it with no real reason here on gfy"
says... "I just look at it as another frontier. I like things like that. "

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cherrylula

OMG, Forrest Chump... case in point. Aw how sad, did Click Cash fire you? no banner?

will76

i was using your great logic. everyone was hating on clickcash so i put them in my sig, then when the haters stopped hating I didn't think it was cool any more so I removed it.

btw, i see your sig is gone did you give up on selling all of those crappy domains.


and stop stalking me and replying to me, it's *creepy*.

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cherrylula

More proof you are nothing in this industry. Nothing but a mouth on a message board. Only good for getting your threads bumped, and even that is almost painful to experience. But you have no real influence on anything, and just run your mouth. So it really isn't a big deal.

Herd

Bingo!

Watch when big studio's are doing crazy shit on their sites but then IFFOR tells the "regular" adultmasters "u cant do that". Are u going to complain? TO WHO? Its a monopoly, and the govt would've passed a law that grants them this immunity.

Your able to compete with big porn studios right now because were free on the internet. .XXX will change all that should it become mandatory.

There is no new frontier for internet porn anymore. Only the consolidation of all adult traffic, given back to a few big porno studios.

JFK

FINALLY.................. Somebody said BINGO !!!!

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cherrylula

Examples? Like what? Are they going to take down my site? Punish me? What?

Right now I actually make money and do business with big porn studios. They're not going to want my traffic anymore because of .xxx?

There are always new innovations, especially with the internet. New ways to make money, new frontiers. So we shall see. This one is a doozy.

cherrylula

Congrats to the Winners!

BlackCrayon

reasons are often are based on someones current position. if they hold a lot of high traffic sites/domains, .xxx is a huge pain in the ass. for someone with only a few sites and "hopes" of finally getting some kind of premium domain, its much different. though if they actually understood the issues instead of just thinking how it effects only them right now, they would still be against it.

-why would i want a domain that can be so easily blocked?
-why would i want to pay 10 times the price for basically the exact same product?
-why would i want to have "duplicate" domains?
-why would i want to pay out the ass in fixed auctions with every joe blow who might have any kind of exention when i have the .com?
-if i was a trademark holder, why should i be blackmailed into purchasing something i don't even want to use?
-why should i be at the whim of the ever changing and growing 'regulations' that .xxx comes up with?
-there is so much uncertainty with the whole thing, from an investment view it just makes no sense having no idea what is going to happen with it in the future, which they seem to want to keep their plans secret.
-why is an "independent" organization that is supposed to watch over .xxx not only founded by lawley but funded by .xxx sales. that is NOT independent and impossible to be objective when their salary relies on the success of .xxx.
-what does IFFOR and lawley really think "online responsiblity" is...? i'd really like to know.

i could go on

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BlackCrayon

for now but constant new regulations threaten that.

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lazycash

Uh ok, love how you call anyone who questions you a "troll". I asked a pertinent question that had everything to do with this conversation. I didn't ask for your specific plans, only commented on the ones you have already said regarding buying the .xxx version of your existing domains. You said you'd buy .xxx as long as it was within reason and I asked you to clarify what was within reason for you because I had a feeling you didn't even realize how much you were going to have to pay to register them.

Furthermore, dozens of points against .xxx have been discussed at length in many discussions over the last few months, yet you act as though nothing of substance against .xxx has been put out there yet.

Herd

Im cracking up. Seeing that makes the day a little brighter.

Fletch XXX

fletch.xxx for the win!

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DaddyHalbucks

Is it too late to be against .XXX?

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