The $77 Billion Fighter Jets That Have Never Gone to War

[BFT3K]

‎$77 Billion spent in defense for no reason, but we need to urgently cut hundreds of millions from health, research, and education budgets instead. Yeah, that makes sense...

Story here...

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/77-bil...ry?id=13322450

[spazlabz]

yeah from what I understand it really is not fond of water so they don't fly it in the rain




but it looks REALLY COOL, so we'll keep it, who wants an educated public any way LOL

[Vendzilla]

The F22 is a cool plane and it's not one thats needed right now, it's just too good. If you read up on the plane, it's far more advanced than we need.
It has a BOB Black Out Button , that when pushed, makes the plane do an extreme U turn which will black out the pilot and then fly the plane level and straight till the pilot regains his wits. Just to out run a issle, of which there are no missle capable yet of catching it.

Like it or not, it's the military budget that brings in most of the new advancements in tech we see each year, like the internet

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

The F22 is a cool plane and it's not one thats needed right now, it's just too good. If you read up on the plane, it's far more advanced than we need.
It has a BOB Black Out Button , that when pushed, makes the plane do an extreme U turn which will black out the pilot and then fly the plane level and straight till the pilot regains his wits. Just to out run a issle, of which there are no missle capable yet of catching it.

Like it or not, it's the military budget that brings in most of the new advancements in tech we see each year, like the internet

i agree with you but it would be nice if they made attempts to cut back a little bit and give a few extra billion for the schools and research too. Seems like every government gets gouged when it comes to military spending unfortunately.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

The F22 is a cool plane and it's not one thats needed right now, it's just too good. If you read up on the plane, it's far more advanced than we need.
It has a BOB Black Out Button , that when pushed, makes the plane do an extreme U turn which will black out the pilot and then fly the plane level and straight till the pilot regains his wits. Just to out run a issle, of which there are no missle capable yet of catching it.

Like it or not, it's the military budget that brings in most of the new advancements in tech we see each year, like the internet

I think we need to develop a "Black Out Button" for our current government.

$77 Billion is TWICE the budget cut figure the asswipes in Washington are currently fighting over - for planes that will never be used.

It's time to restart this government - with NO lobbyists and NO special interests.

The American people really need to reclaim their country, and I don't mean through some fake, corporate controlled, Tea Bagger movement either.

[IllTestYourGirls]

So much waste in the military industrial complex.

[Coup]

the military is the biggest welfare queen of them all

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

So much waste in the military industrial complex.

I agree with you 100%

Both sides are guilty of prioritizing corporate and special interests, over the real interests of the American people.

There are plenty of assholes on both sides of our totally corrupt two party puppet government, no argument here.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

I agree with you 100%

Both sides are guilty of prioritizing corporate and special interests, over the American people.

There are plenty of asshole Democrats too, no argument here.

Until we elect a non-corporatist this will never end. And even then it is doubtful that it will end for a long time.

[AliGbone]

There's been enough sadness since da terrible events of 7-11.

[dyna mo]

we had all better hope those f-22s aren't needed for what they do.

[Gouge]

I love the F22 and glad we have them, i wish had another 187 of them in the fleet. Seeing how our government is spending about $10 Billion per day and these planes cost $77 Billion that's just under 8 days of what we are spending up in Washington right now. In the long run these things will pay off, and with the 5th generation improvements they are worth every penny when they go into action.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Until we elect a non-corporatist this will never end. And even then it is doubtful that it will end for a long time.

The president is only elected for 4 to 8 years.

Our current system of corruption is much stronger than any one single person.

Even if Obama (or anyone) really wants to fix the broken system going in, they are quickly told how things are really going to play out, and within weeks they are whistling a different tune.

The bottom line is that the "people" no longer effect or direct the government at all. If a bunch of people want to donate $25 or $50 each, towards the potential candidate of their choice, how much influence are they getting when corporations can donate $millions to get their way instead?

We need to restart this system...

[JFK]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Until we elect a non-corporatist this will never end. And even then it is doubtful that it will end for a long time.

it will never end

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

The president is only elected for 4 to 8 years.

Our current system of corruption is much stronger than any one single person.

Even if Obama (or anyone) really wants to fix the broken system going in, they are quickly told how things are really going to play out, and within weeks they are whistling a different tune.

The bottom line is that the "people" no longer effect or direct the government at all. If a bunch of people want to donate $25 or $50 each, towards the potential candidate of their choice, how much influence are they getting when corporations can donate $millions to get their way instead?

We need to restart this system...

We need to make the federal government as small as possible. There is no reason for a rational thinking person who knows that the government is corrupt and run by the banks, wall street and big business to want to grow the power of the government. No matter who is the one growing it or if it "is a good idea" at the time.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

I think we need to develop a "Black Out Button" for our current government.

$77 Billion is TWICE the budget cut figure the asswipes in Washington are currently fighting over - for planes that will never be used.

It's time to restart this government - with NO lobbyists and NO special interests.

The American people really need to reclaim their country, and I don't mean through some fake, corporate controlled, Tea Bagger movement either.

Having planes like this is a deterrent and is something I believe in, nobody has a plane that would stand a chance against it.

Having a military presence in almost every country in the world it seems is way more costly and a better place to start.

While I agree that a better solution of the way we run our government is needed, it's going to take more time to do that when we have a president that wants to inflate the government instead of scaling it back

[Tom_PM]

Stop voting for republicans and democrats. Thats our action item it seems. Fine with me!

[pornguy]

I see no problem with having them but I do see a problem with having so many and then not using them at all.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

We need to make the federal government as small as possible. There is no reason for a rational thinking person who knows that the government is corrupt and run by the banks, wall street and big business to want to grow the power of the government. No matter who is the one growing it or if it "is a good idea" at the time.

You have to fix the system before you can make that argument.

The current system is: Big Money Interests vs The People's Interests

Big corps do not want government getting in the way of their profit. They want to rape the people without any checks and balances whatsoever.

The Big Money People do not want environmental regulations. They do not want alternative energy research. They do not want subsidized healthcare that takes away from their profit. They do not want banking regulations, etc.

Without an all-out system change the government is the only entity that stands between the people, and all-out corporate control.

I don't like big government either, but unless we restart from scratch, a balance is still needed, however it can be achieved.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Having planes like this is a deterrent and is something I believe in, nobody has a plane that would stand a chance against it.

Having a military presence in almost every country in the world it seems is way more costly and a better place to start.

While I agree that a better solution of the way we run our government is needed, it's going to take more time to do that when we have a president that wants to inflate the government instead of scaling it back

Who are you afraid of?

These overpriced, useless planes, are a deterrent against whom?

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by spazlabz

yeah from what I understand it really is not fond of water so they don't fly it in the rain




but it looks REALLY COOL, so we'll keep it, who wants an educated public any way LOL

haha this better not be true

edit: omfg hahahaha

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Who are you afraid of?

These overpriced, useless planes, are a deterrent against whom?

Same reason we have trident submarines, the most powerful weapon we have, carries up to 24 ICBMs

Makes the F22 look like a bi plane

[dyna mo]

i think this is immensely important to consider when trying to sort out the f22

Origins

In 1981 the United States Air Force (USAF) developed a requirement for a new air superiority fighter, the Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF), to replace the capability of the McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle, primarily the F-15A, B, C and D variants. ATF was a demonstration and validation program undertaken by the USAF to develop a next-generation air superiority fighter to counter emerging worldwide threats, including development and proliferation of Soviet-era Su-27 "Flanker"-class fighter aircraft. It was envisioned that the ATF would incorporate emerging technologies including advanced alloys and composite materials, advanced fly-by-wire flight control systems, higher power propulsion systems, and low-observable/stealth technology.

A request for proposal (RFP) was issued in July 1986, and two contractor teams, Lockheed/Boeing/General Dynamics and Northrop/McDonnell Douglas were selected in October 1986 to undertake a 50-month demonstration/validation phase, culminating in the flight test of two prototype aircraft, the YF-22 and the YF-23. Each design team produced two prototypes featuring one of two engine options, one featuring thrust vectoring. The Pratt & Whitney F119 turbofan with vectored thrust was found to be worth the extra expense and complexity, as it permits a tighter turning radius, a valuable capability in dogfights.

this project began with a early 1980s view on the enemy as we understood it. the pentagon gets rolling on projects like these that take decades to implement. and in the decades since the beginning of the raptor, the enemy evolved. we still have a threat the f22 can deal with (north korea, as per the article).

[Gouge]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Who are you afraid of?

These overpriced, useless planes, are a deterrent against whom?

What other comparable plane are you using to determine they are overpriced in your opinion? Did you even bother to read the the very article you posted? It clearly explains why the F22 was designed, do you not comprehend the concept of generational military assets? Honestly man, why do you bother posting an article and bitch about it when you don't even understand it...trolling or attention whore you pick.

[CPA37710T]

pisses me off that they spend this kind of money on jets and war.. that money could be good for so many things

[BJ]

fucking hippies

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Same reason we have trident submarines, the most powerful weapon we have, carries up to 24 ICBMs

Makes the F22 look like a bi plane

First of all you didn't answer the questions at all, but then, just to make your point even weaker, you go on to state that we already have weapons that we are not using as deterrents. So this justifies buying more overpriced toys with taxpayer money, how?

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

You have to fix the system before you can make that argument.

The current system is: Big Money Interests vs The People's Interests

Big corps do not want government getting in the way of their profit. They want to rape the people without any checks and balances whatsoever.

The Big Money People do not want environmental regulations. They do not want alternative energy research. They do not want subsidized healthcare that takes away from their profit. They do not want banking regulations, etc.

Without an all-out system change the government is the only entity that stands between the people, and all-out corporate control.

I don't like big government either, but unless we restart from scratch, a balance is still needed, however it can be achieved.

Only an illusion of a balance will be created. It is necessary for the states and the people to reclaim their rights from the federal government and demand that it is smaller. (not saying state governments are without corruption, but at least you can move out of a state 'easily')

You can not have these people controlling it and expect a balance. Maybe you are talking about a balance between Federal and State and The People. If that is the case you are right. But for that balance to happen the Federal and state governments MUST get smaller.

[Gouge]

Originally Posted by CPA37710T

pisses me off that they spend this kind of money on jets and war.. that money could be good for so many things

So the $4.08 billion per day our government is spending is not enough for you?

[spazlabz]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

haha this better not be true

edit: omfg hahahaha

I know, it is unbelievable right?

The United States' top fighter jet, the Lockheed Martin F-22, has recently required more than 30 hours of maintenance for every hour in the skies, pushing its hourly cost of flying to more than $44,000, a far higher figure than for the warplane it replaces, confidential Pentagon test results show.
This Story

The aircraft's radar-absorbing metallic skin is the principal cause of its maintenance troubles, with unexpected shortcomings -- such as vulnerability to rain and other abrasion -- challenging Air Force and contractor technicians since the mid-1990s, according to Pentagon officials, internal documents and a former engineer.

source
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...070903020.html

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

First of all you didn't answer the questions at all, but then, just to make your point even weaker, you go on to state that we already have weapons that we are not using as deterrents. So this justifies buying more overpriced toys with taxpayer money, how?

I did answer your question, you just don't have an understanding of what a deterrant is.

military strength or an ability to defend a country or retaliate strongly enough to deter an enemy from attacking.

No one will strike a country that has the ability to remove them from the map, thats what a Trident submarine can do and they are on deployment

As far as the F22, it was designed before the modern warfare tactics had changed. Personally I think they should improve on the warthog platform

[BFT3K]

Should our tax dollars be used to pay for alternate energy research, or for subsides for Big Oil?

Should our tax dollars be used to supplement health care for people in need, or for supplements and breaks for Big Pharma?

Should our tax dollars be used to safeguard clean water, food, and air, or for Wall Street bailouts and bonuses?

For infrastructure issues here in the US, or for rebuilding Afghanistan?

Do we cut off medicare and medicaid, or give tax breaks for the rich instead, etc....

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

I did answer your question, you just don't have an understanding of what a deterrant is.

military strength or an ability to defend a country or retaliate strongly enough to deter an enemy from attacking.

No one will strike a country that has the ability to remove them from the map, thats what a Trident submarine can do and they are on deployment

As far as the F22, it was designed before the modern warfare tactics had changed. Personally I think they should improve on the warthog platform.

You still haven't answered, so I ask again...

Who are you afraid of?

And these overpriced, useless planes, are a deterrent against whom?

[Scott McD]

We are cutting all services here, yet we just sent another £650 million to Pakistan for some reason.

You couldn't make the shit up...

[bronco67]

It's just a jobs program. Nothing more, nothing less.

[spazlabz]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

I did answer your question, you just don't have an understanding of what a deterrant is.

military strength or an ability to defend a country or retaliate strongly enough to deter an enemy from attacking.

No one will strike a country that has the ability to remove them from the map, thats what a Trident submarine can do and they are on deployment

As far as the F22, it was designed before the modern warfare tactics had changed. Personally I think they should improve on the warthog platform

the A10 is a bad ass little tank killer. My dad was in the USAF when they were first doing tests on it and told me about how when the .50 cal on the nose burped it cracked the air frame! Lots of re-engineering had to be done but I think it is one of the most effective fixed wing aircraft the US has

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Who are you afraid of??

No one, that's the point.

If you're holding an AR-15 in a room full of guys holding broomsticks, who are you going to be afraid of?

Originally Posted by spazlabz

the A10 is a bad ass little tank killer. My dad was in the USAF when they were first doing tests on it and told me about how when the .50 cal on the nose burped it cracked the air frame! Lots of re-engineering had to be done but I think it is one of the most effective fixed wing aircraft the US has

It's been thru a lot changes, but you can shoot half it's wing off and it can still get the pilot home

[theking]

Originally Posted by spazlabz

the A10 is a bad ass little tank killer. My dad was in the USAF when they were first doing tests on it and told me about how when the .50 cal on the nose burped it cracked the air frame! Lots of re-engineering had to be done but I think it is one of the most effective fixed wing aircraft the US has

It does not have a .50 cal on its nose.

[Gouge]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Should our tax dollars be used to pay for alternate energy research, or for subsides for Big Oil?

We already have the NREL that is %100 government funded.

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Should our tax dollars be used to supplement health care for people in need, or for supplements and breaks for Big Pharma?

We already have Obama Care...Duh!

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Should our tax dollars be used to safeguard clean water, food, and air, or for Wall Street bailouts and bonuses?

We already have some 3,000 EPA safeguards in place.

Originally Posted by BFT3K

For infrastructure issues here in the US, or for rebuilding Afghanistan?

We already did stimulus packages, TARP, state bailouts and the shovel ready jobs Obama ran on as a campaign promise.

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Do we cut off medicare and medicaid, or give tax breaks for the rich instead, etc....

We already have hospitals that by law treat people with no medicare and medicaid and or insurance.

In conclusion you just want more of the same, more big government, more spending and more government control.

[robwod]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

No one will strike a country that has the ability to remove them from the map, thats what a Trident submarine can do and they are on deployment.

At the risk of getting involved in this thread, this statement is false. If it were true, then the US would never have been attacked on 9/11.

When you have a country, or group of people, who believe martyrdom is the way to eternal bliss, then a threat of death is hardly a deterrent.

While not a US citizen, I think the US military budgets almost certainly have areas where money is better spent on other things on domestic soil versus foreign soil.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

I did answer your question, you just don't have an understanding of what a deterrant is.

no you didn't....

Here was the question you so called " answered " :

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Who are you afraid of?

These overpriced, useless planes, are a deterrent against whom?

.. and you answer : the eneemy ... lol ... what a generic response .. might as well say " the bad guys " ...

So, WHO are those enemies that such artillery is required to keep in check ???

[dyna mo]

from the original article-

"[The F-22s] are in an area where they would be solely or more suited for a sophisticated adversary like North Korea," Babione told ABC News. "In particular, its ability to penetrate highly defended locations -- such as North Korea -- only the Raptor would be able to get in there and prosecute the missions."

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by Scott McD

We are cutting all services here, yet we just sent another £650 million to Pakistan for some reason.

You couldn't make the shit up...

come on ... that cannot be true ...
=======
Sesame Street comes to Pakistan

US government aid agency sponsors $20m Pakistani remake of the American kids' TV show



There's no Cookie Monster, no Big Bird and no Count von Count.

But Pakistani children will soon start experiencing what millions in the west have done for more than four decades ? the joys of Sesame Street.

In a $20m (£12m) remake of the classic American children's programme, the setting for the show has moved from the streets of New York to a lively village in Pakistan with a roadside tea and snacks stall, known as a dhaba, some fancy houses with overhanging balconies along with simple dwellings, and residents hanging out on their verandas.

The Pakistani version, in which characters will speak mostly in Urdu, will feature Rani, a cute six-year-old Muppet, the child of a peasant farmer, with pigtails, flowers in her hair and a smart blue-and-white school uniform. Her curiosity and questions about the world will, it is hoped, make her a role model for Pakistani children.

The financing for the series comes from USAid, the economic assistance arm of the US government, which aims to help the country's young learn some basic words and numbers through Sesame Street's fun style of education. Pakistan's schooling system is failing badly, a major reason for a descent into religious conservatism and economic stagnation.

and it continues .... :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...an?INTCMP=SRCH

[theking]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

no you didn't....

Here was the question you so called " answered " :



.. and you answer : the eneemy ... lol ... what a generic response .. might as well say " the bad guys " ...

So, WHO are those enemies that such artillery is required to keep in check ???

Any one they may give it even a passing thought.

[Gouge]

Originally Posted by robwod

At the risk of getting involved in this thread, this statement is false. If it were true, then the US would never have been attacked on 9/11.

When you have a country, or group of people, who believe martyrdom is the way to eternal bliss, then a threat of death is hardly a deterrent.

While not a US citizen, I think the US military budgets almost certainly have areas where money is better spent on other things on domestic soil versus foreign soil.

The 9/11 attacks where done by terrorist not by a sovereign nation flying under the representation of a flag and government...huge difference between the two.

Vendzilla unlike BFT3K and his ilk is thinking down the road, long term and large scale like India, China, Russia, North Korea and Iran. If someone is not willing to put the future of those countries in perspective then they are seriously misguided as a individual.

[Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life]

I was under the impression that as far as sheer mechanics are concerned the new generation MIGs were still a superior plane. It's not until all the other tech trickery comes into play that the F22 blows them out of the water. No t much point in having a faster, more reliable jet if it can't even find the enemy. Man some of the shit they got loaded into that F22 is ridiculous.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by robwod

At the risk of getting involved in this thread, this statement is false. If it were true, then the US would never have been attacked on 9/11.

When you have a country, or group of people, who believe martyrdom is the way to eternal bliss, then a threat of death is hardly a deterrent.

While not a US citizen, I think the US military budgets almost certainly have areas where money is better spent on other things on domestic soil versus foreign soil.

And you think that the people that attacked us are sane?

[robwod]

Originally Posted by Gouge

The 9/11 attacks where done by terrorist not by a sovereign nation flying under the representation of a flag and government...huge difference between the two.

Agreed. but the point is, to use "deterrent" as an argument is flawed. The fact is the US was indeed attacked despite all the security (at the time), intelligence reports, well-known and well-documented firepower. I will agree that certain levels of posturing with the ability to back it militarily will indeed deter some people, organizations or even countries, but it won't deter all.

And I am doubtful Kim Jong Ill is remotely concerned over anything the US has militarily. He's a loose canon in every sense, that I can see. I just can't see any amount of military might altering that man's sense of determination to cause problems.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Gouge

The 9/11 attacks where done by terrorist not by a sovereign nation flying under the representation of a flag and government...huge difference between the two.

Vendzilla unlike BFT3K and his ilk is thinking down the road, long term and large scale like India, China, Russia, North Korea and Iran. If someone is not willing to put the future of those countries in perspective then they are seriously misguided as a individual.

Be afraid, be very afraid!

Fund bombs instead of health care - fund redundant jets instead of developing alternate energies - fund Haliburton instead of improving US infrastructure.

Be afraid, be very afraid!

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

no you didn't....

Here was the question you so called " answered " :



.. and you answer : the eneemy ... lol ... what a generic response .. might as well say " the bad guys " ...

So, WHO are those enemies that such artillery is required to keep in check ???

I answered the question with an answer that wasn't on your list, don't get your panties in a twist