With the general porn ratios declining, what can we do?

[Nicky]

I have one answer and that is to start getting into real NICHE marketing and micro-niches. The people searching and buying this stuff know what they want and are not afraid to pay for quality.

How many of you are building micro-niche tubes focused around SE traffic?

Let me know how we at EuroRevenue can help you make that niche money and increase those sales? Do you need tube clips? Do you need help with on-page SEO?

Do you need hosting? Domains?

Are you just starting out? Email or ICQ me and I'll gladly give you pointers as to how EuroRevenue will be your first successful sponsor.

nicky @ eurorevenue.com
icq: 62777655

[kane]

Here's an idea. If you find a micro niche where the traffic converts pretty well, how about not making a tube and giving a bunch of it away for free? Maybe try to keep it hard to find so they will keep paying.

Promote it for sure, but do it using blogs, free sites etc.

[DWB]

Apparently, the more you just give it all away for free the more money you make. If you're seeing declining ratios it is because you are not giving enough away.

More full length tubes and torrents are the answer.

[desiredusername]

With poor ratios and porn pretty much being oversaturated...
WHY NOT GO MAINSTREAM!
Give up porn and make MORE $$$.
Don't ask me to suggest any specific sites or programs...get out and find them yourselves.
Are you chicken?

[femdomdestiny]

Originally Posted by kane

Here's an idea. If you find a micro niche where the traffic converts pretty well, how about not making a tube and giving a bunch of it away for free? Maybe try to keep it hard to find so they will keep paying.

Promote it for sure, but do it using blogs, free sites etc.

Exactly. Everything else will make things even worse

[CunningStunt]

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Apparently, the more you just give it all away for free the more money you make. If you're seeing declining ratios it is because you are not giving enough away.

More full length tubes and torrents are the answer.

I mean

[DWB]

Originally Posted by desiredusername

With poor ratios and porn pretty much being oversaturated...
WHY NOT GO MAINSTREAM!
Give up porn and make MORE $$$.
Don't ask me to suggest any specific sites or programs...get out and find them yourselves.
Are you chicken?

As expected.

The great thing about porn guys who claim to be making more in mainstream is, not one of them will ever show you a site they have on the mainstream side.

If a person isn't willing to show you a site they own, I'm not taking their advice.

And why do all these guys who are killing it in mainstream and have washed their hands of adult, come back to GFY to post?

[ContentPimp]

My ratios have stayed the same but I swap sponsors, because some become boring/oversaturated.

[Nicky]

Originally Posted by kane

Here's an idea. If you find a micro niche where the traffic converts pretty well, how about not making a tube and giving a bunch of it away for free? Maybe try to keep it hard to find so they will keep paying.

Promote it for sure, but do it using blogs, free sites etc.

When building micro-niche tubes you of course do It with small teaser clips. No one says you have to be giving It all away for free just because you are building a tube. The tube is a convenient content AND ad delivery system.

Of course blogs and other sorts of free sites area good way too. Tubes just like any other site can be done and used exactly how you want them to be.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Nicky

When building micro-niche tubes you of course do It with small teaser clips. No one says you have to be giving It all away for free just because you are building a tube. The tube is a convenient content AND ad delivery system.

Of course blogs and other sorts of free sites area good way too. Tubes just like any other site can be done and used exactly how you want them to be.

That could be cool if it was just teasers, trailers and small clips. I would just hate to see someone go out there and start giving away full length movies and hours of free video to saturate a niche.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by Nicky

When building micro-niche tubes you of course do It with small teaser clips. No one says you have to be giving It all away for free just because you are building a tube. The tube is a convenient content AND ad delivery system.

Of course blogs and other sorts of free sites area good way too. Tubes just like any other site can be done and used exactly how you want them to be.

The problem is, a few smart guys will just show clips. Then the dumb asses RUN in and load up full length movies, ruining it. That's the way it always works. Most people in porn have zero business sense.

BTW... ad blockers turn off ads on tubes (and all sites who are served from another domain). Educate the surfers to use one and it ads are worthless on tubes.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by kane

That could be cool if it was just teasers, trailers and small clips. I would just hate to see someone go out there and start giving away full length movies and hours of free video to saturate a niche.

And that is exactly what will happen.

[Nicky]

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

The problem is, a few smart guys will just show clips. Then the dumb asses RUN in and load up full length movies, ruining it. That's the way it always works. Most people in porn have zero business sense.

BTW... ad blockers turn off ads on tubes (and all sites who are served from another domain). Educate the surfers to use one and it ads are worthless on tubes.

I agree with you. They can't block hard coded ad's though.

[HighlyIntoxicated]

think outside of the box and create sites that users havent seen yet.

i've got three killer sites waiting for life.

[SGS]

Micro niche is bullshit. By it's sheer nature it's "micro" because there is not huge interest and the guys into "micro" generally network very well to get just about all they need for free.

Better idea is just to shoot good porn that people actually want to see (unusual concept right there I know) and then market it properly.

[Nicky]

Originally Posted by SGS

Better idea is just to shoot good porn that people actually want to see (unusual concept right there I know) and then market it properly.

I'm with you on this one but I don't fully agree on the micro-niche part. You don't even have to go micro but just find a niche that you can twist a bit.

[SGS]

Originally Posted by Nicky

I'm with you on this one but I don't fully agree on the micro-niche part. You don't even have to go micro but just find a niche that you can twist a bit.

Which sort of gets into the "porn that people want" area.

[MrDeiz]

i sell short icqs

[Nicky]

Originally Posted by SGS

Which sort of gets into the "porn that people want" area.

Yes It does

[SGS]

Originally Posted by Nicky

Yes It does

Which has been the problem over the years. Bad content, poor sites and piss poor advertising.

[Nicky]

Originally Posted by SGS

Which has been the problem over the years. Bad content, poor sites and piss poor advertising.

yep. And that the same "bad" content is free now isn't helping.

[SGS]

Originally Posted by Nicky

yep. And that the same "bad" content is free now isn't helping.

The economy and the changing way that we sell is probably the bigger problem. We have no fear of competing with free as it stands at the moment.

[Nicky]

Originally Posted by SGS

The economy and the changing way that we sell is probably the bigger problem. We have no fear of competing with free as it stands at the moment.

No, that is correct if you produce good content and deliver It in a satisfying way. Which like you say most don't do.

Luckily we produce good niche content at ER. ;)

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

BTW... ad blockers turn off ads on tubes (and all sites who are served from another domain). Educate the surfers to use one and it ads are worthless on tubes.

Good idea. Also explain to surfers why Dating sites are a con, except the free ones.



Here's an undeniable fact about traffic and ratios. So this is sure to get some arguments.

Figures are approx to illustrate a point. And not niche or site specific.

Once all that was need to get a sign up was 50 hits.
Then it needed 100.
Then 500
Now some traffic converts at 1 in 5000.

Up until the last 2 years traffic increased at bigger amounts than the ratios.

And everything looked rosy. People were earning more so ignoring the under lying problem. The more traffic they got the more traffic they needed to achieve the same result. More people were saying no to buying every day. AND the ratios were based on clicks to the sponsors site. If you look at the number of people viewing the promotion site then the figures were increasing worse.

Until Tubes hit the system. Then traffic for most dropped. Also the quality of a lot of the new traffic wasn't as good as in the past.

And still the cry is "More traffic". Even when it's not there. Another solution is needed.

Going micro niche isn't it. It's micro niche because it's small. Few people want it, few people understand it and few people will make money out of it. The more people that go into micro niches, to make money, won't increase the money to be made in micro niches. It will just spread the existing money thinner.

Originally Posted by SGS

Better idea is just to shoot good porn that people actually want to see (unusual concept right there I know) and then market it properly.

Originally Posted by Nicky

I'm with you on this one but I don't fully agree on the micro-niche part. You don't even have to go micro but just find a niche that you can twist a bit.

Good idea. But this arm of the porn business has been built on the concept anyone with a digital camera can shoot porn and the budgets required for it don't have to be that large.

To shoot good porn is tough. You need experience, skill, natural talent also helps. And a budget that allows you to show those things. Giving Suze Randall, Viv Thomas or Steve Hicks $500 to shoot a good porn set and video of a solo girl ain't going to to make them able to do it. Plus they can't be bothered to do it either. More money elsewhere. (See sig for a good example.)

Same goes for giving a normal niche a good twist. Rather like Bang Bus did. But again it needs a good budget and the skills I talked about to pull it off. Giving DVTimes a great idea and a good budget won't get you a great porn scene. And filling a site with one idea gets boring after a few days.

[Nicky]

Bump for discussion.

[CurrentlySober]

Micro niche has to be right on the button. Hit every aspect of the niche that you can, and then wrap it up in a little 20 min nugget of niche heaven, and you can sell it all day long.

It has to be right though. Right clothes, right girls, right location. They (the girls) have to say the right things, behave in the right way, act (and react) in the right way, and fulfil the niche EXACTLY...

Thats the easy part. The hard part is figuring out what those things are. Get that right, and you (and your customers) are a happy bunnys...

[BVF]

A microniche TUBE is your answer? I'll say it again. Marketing webmasters aren't pornographers. Which is why they only can speak on what will improve ratios in the short term but can't really speak on making porn for a clientele and distributing it.

[Nicky]

Originally Posted by BVF

A microniche TUBE is your answer? I'll say it again. Marketing webmasters aren't pornographers. Which is why they only can speak on what will improve ratios in the short term but can't really speak on making porn for a clientele and distributing it.

It is one of my answers, this was meant for people to discuss different strategies and "answers". I just started the ball

[sologirlcontent]

Originally Posted by BVF

A microniche TUBE is your answer? I'll say it again. Marketing webmasters aren't pornographers. Which is why they only can speak on what will improve ratios in the short term but can't really speak on making porn for a clientele and distributing it.

[signupdamnit]

Micro-niche in general works great until some asshole (or a company of said assholes) comes in and makes a big pirate tube with 50 minute full scene videos targeting your micro-niche. It's mostly just a matter of time. Visualize it as being on an island where the water surrounding the island keeps rising uncontrollably and with no end in sight. You can keep seeking higher and higher ground as the water overtakes more land but eventually you'll have no where to go.

It's on the content owner to protect their content from the said assholes in question and it's also on the affiliate to try to only work with sponsors who are working to keep their stuff off pirate tubes. Optional step is not to do business with those who contribute to piracy. If the industry did this last step four years ago, who would argue with me that things would have likely been very different now? Those pirate tubes might still exist but they'd be smaller and would be pushing premium Usenet access and torrents not pay sites or dating and cams. It would be harder for them to monetize that traffic.

[PR_Glen]

haha 'porn that people actually want' ??? what does that even mean?

Surfers aren't as picky as you may think, they are lead by their urges and they will get off to anything you throw at them if you market it right. You could hire all of the hottest models that will shoot hardcore and plaster that all over the tour all you want but if its marketed poorly you wont make shit.

Ratios are falling only for webmasters who choose to use the older techniques, as in just having a site up and expecting them to click like they used to. There is a lot more competition now, so you have to earn that sale! We have webmasters that have great ratios because they do exactly that. They aren't just flooding in numbers of unqualified clicks, plastering nothing but ads and pop ups, they aren't overloading them with content so they will just linger there get there fix and move on. They filter, qualify, lead and sell that surfer. They give them a taste of what we have then they forward them for the big sale and their ratios reflect that.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Nicky

With the general porn ratios declining, what can we do?

Buy a beer, and go cry in it.

[Nicky]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Buy a beer, and go cry in it.

Fuck that, I hate watered-down beer

Ratios are not down for me they are actually up compared to last year but I was talking about a bigger trend and what people think about It. I like how we are getting a discussion here.

PR_Glen, you are pretty much right. Content do matter in some cases though, you still have to sell some kind of fantasy or interaction.

[Argos88]

mainstream 4 life.. porn is dead..

if you want to work like a slave and have no life, to pay your bills, stay in porn...

you will die with the sinking boat.
.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

Micro niche has to be right on the button. Hit every aspect of the niche that you can, and then wrap it up in a little 20 min nugget of niche heaven, and you can sell it all day long.

It has to be right though. Right clothes, right girls, right location. They (the girls) have to say the right things, behave in the right way, act (and react) in the right way, and fulfil the niche EXACTLY...

Thats the easy part. The hard part is figuring out what those things are. Get that right, and you (and your customers) are a happy bunnys...

And if you're not into the niche how do you know what's right and what's wrong. How do you know a good site from a bad site in the niche?

Testing of course. But maybe going blind and testing will cost more money than it makes.

If it is as easy as testing it sounds. Too many will do it and the money will be spread thinner.

[2intense]

promote cams

[Agent 488]

the paysite model is dead, niche or not. also if cc companies are declining cards due porn being too high risk in a recession if you find traffic it means nothing any way.

[Agent 488]

and micro-niches has micro-audiences.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by BVF

A microniche TUBE is your answer? I'll say it again. Marketing webmasters aren't pornographers. Which is why they only can speak on what will improve ratios in the short term but can't really speak on making porn for a clientele and distributing it.

How to fail.

Market a product you don't understand.
Market a product you wouldn't buy.
Market a product by giving customers millions of reasons not to buy. (Free porn.)

PR_Glen if that's the state of Adult Internet marketing how do you think the new methods should shape up?

[DWB]

Originally Posted by BVF

A microniche TUBE is your answer? I'll say it again. Marketing webmasters aren't pornographers. Which is why they only can speak on what will improve ratios in the short term but can't really speak on making porn for a clientele and distributing it.

BVF is the cockroach of porn.

He was here before most of us, and will be here long after we're gone. There is something to be said about someone who OWNS a niche and has not had to cater to trends to stay afloat.

Respect.

[izzynew]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

Ratios are falling only for webmasters who choose to use the older techniques, as in just having a site up and expecting them to click like they used to. There is a lot more competition now, so you have to earn that sale! We have webmasters that have great ratios because they do exactly that. They aren't just flooding in numbers of unqualified clicks, plastering nothing but ads and pop ups, they aren't overloading them with content so they will just linger there get there fix and move on. They filter, qualify, lead and sell that surfer. They give them a taste of what we have then they forward them for the big sale and their ratios reflect that.

That's all true.
But then the surfer gets to the join page, cc at the ready, and his card gets rejected, as does his second card and even his third - all valid cards.
So webmaster ratios of join page hits to sales are getting worse by the week, however good their sales techniques are.

I'm not ready to jump what some call a sinking ship, but we have to be realistic about what's happening with porn sales right now.

edit: I should say attempted porn sales.

[javok]

Dating & Cams.

[Agent 488]

Originally Posted by izzynew

That's all true.
But then the surfer gets to the join page, cc at the ready, and his card gets rejected, as does his second card and even his third - all valid cards.
So webmaster ratios of join page hits to sales are getting worse by the week, however good their sales techniques are.

I'm not ready to jump what some call a sinking ship, but we have to be realistic about what's happening with porn sales right now.

edit: I should say attempted porn sales.

i agree. perfectly sculpted search traffic is turning up fat zeros on many sites right now. porn is just too high risk for the cc companies right now.

[Zprogramz]

Eurorevenue rocks for us

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by Agent 488

i agree. perfectly sculpted search traffic is turning up fat zeros on many sites right now. porn is just too high risk for the cc companies right now.

The strange thing is that as of a week ago there are still companies posting here with hidden pre-checked cross sales and they are seldom called out on it even today. People have been saying over and over for years that this was not good and would only cause problems but as usual few listened. Now I see one major company famous for it now using ccbill and without the shit. Either they decided to come to Jesus or someone brought the hammer down on them. Gee I wonder which one it is?

[Argos88]

Originally Posted by javok

Dating & Cams.

El problema es que convertir camaras es RECONTRA JODIDO... 0:20,000 para mi...

Algun tip?

.

[Agent 488]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

The strange thing is that as of a week ago there are still companies posting here with hidden pre-checked cross sales and they are seldom called out on it even today. People have been saying over and over for years that this was not good and would only cause problems but as usual few listened.

one of the most insightful - but neglected - posts was about how when one of those hidden cross sells are charged back that cc is put on a blacklist and can never be used for a porn sign-up again.

even if piracy was eliminated tomorrow the pool of cc's that can be used on porn is dwindling every day and those that are profiting could give a shit as they are hiding out surrounded by bodyguards in manilla, and from what i've read elsewhere on the run from the feds.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by Argos88

El problema es que convertir camaras es RECONTRA JODIDO... 0:20,000 para mi...

Algun tip?

.

Muy mal.

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by Argos88

El problema es que convertir camaras es RECONTRA JODIDO... 0:20,000 para mi...

Algun tip?

.

Even if they don't shave in the traditional sense many do much of the same by using cookies or other tricks. The program is constructed to work against you. When promoting Cams you have to be careful because they'll shave even the skin off your face one way or another if you let them. Bottom line, move on to another sponsor if they aren't paying you. If you keep sending free hits, they win.

[Nautilus]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

Micro niche has to be right on the button. Hit every aspect of the niche that you can, and then wrap it up in a little 20 min nugget of niche heaven, and you can sell it all day long.

It has to be right though. Right clothes, right girls, right location. They (the girls) have to say the right things, behave in the right way, act (and react) in the right way, and fulfil the niche EXACTLY...

Thats the easy part. The hard part is figuring out what those things are. Get that right, and you (and your customers) are a happy bunnys...

That's true 100%, however getting that right is the tough part. Not figuring it out, as surfers will readily tell you want they want themselves, but actually shooting. You need to either shoot it yourself, or try to somehow convey your vision/knowledge of a niche/various specifics and details/etc to a hired shooter or content provider, which is impossible in 99% of cases. They're not as motivated, not as bright as you'd expect, do not like to read and research, and generally tend to select the easiest way, shooting only the basic without all of the important details that you want in your pics/vids. And even with the basics they'll still fuck up most of the time.

So while doing quality sellable micro niche product sounds good in theory, in practice that's tricky as hell.