Statement from Websitebilling

[Maximus]

Some of you are curious as to the status of Websitebilling. There are quite a few rumors as of late and perhaps I can shed some light.

The inappropriate activity of one particular large client caused one of our banking partners to hold funds. Although we have banking relationships all over the world, this caused a delay in payments to some clients. Websitebilling has always had a reputation for paying and fighting for its clients money. If you recall we were the only ones to have the cojones to sue Visa against chargebacks. Some of you thought that our delay issues had to do with the lawsuit. This is not the case; this suit was settled long ago. Although we are not allowed to speak of it I can tell you we experienced a rapid growth after the settlement.

Once again, after fighting for our clients money by flying out some ourstaff to confront the situation head on, the bank in question has begun to release the held funds in small increments. Although we have work left, account balances are being brought forward as the releases are received. We appreciate the patience of our clients and the understanding they have shown. WSB will never just laydown as monies are held or fines or penalties are imposed on behalf of our clients.

Companies like CFF, who have been with WSB for a long time and who have many affiliates, have recently requested to forgo their own payments in order to pay their affiliates first. Its this kind of effort between clients and WSB that are helping to bring resolution. Most large clients that have been around for a while have seen this type of thing before. Affiliates working with companies like these are fortunate as they actually have an additional layer of protection that affiliates working for other companies do not enjoy.

[p00p]

Hello sir. If I add your processing to my site, will you pay me for monies earned? Is all this mess from your past, in the past, and are you just catching up?
Also, how long to set up processing on my site? I am getting PISSED off with processors spamming me, I take up their offers, they answer all my questions in a timely manner, I fill out their 300 page contract, return it ASAP, and don't hear from them again. What's up with that?
Do you guys do this? Or do you understand the importance of getting a client up and running quickly?
Thx.

[Maximus]

Originally posted by p00p
Hello sir. If I add your processing to my site, will you pay me for monies earned? Is all this mess from your past, in the past, and are you just catching up?

Yes. This does not affect new transactions.. only previous. Our clients are normally set up very quickly. We also have many options , through our extensive banking relationships, that can help merchants acheive autonomy, fraud control and gateway processing.

[p00p]

Originally posted by Maximus


Yes. This does not affect new transactions.. only previous. Our clients are normally set up very quickly. We also have many options , through our extensive banking relationships, that can help merchants acheive autonomy, fraud control and gateway processing.

Cool! I will check out your site. Hopefully you straighten this all out. Personally I think that if you were going down, you would have been gone by now.

[XxXotic]

heard it all before.... last month.... month before that.....

what I'd REALLY like to know, is why send out partial payments? My december check was short a few hundred bucks, i had to raise hell and chase WSB around for 2 weeks to get my money

then my January check didn't come till March, it TOO was a few hundred $ short and Ive had to chase WSB around AGAIN for 2 weeks and threaten legal action, which all that did was give me a response from CFF and not WSB (who i sent at least a dozen emails to and have yet to hear back from)

Now I'm hearing we'll be caught up by friday. Will you? Will I receive my FULL monies owed or will I be chasing WSB around again (assumably with no response as usual) for another 2-3 weeks?

[e-god]

Good to hear someone from wsb here

[Tipsy]

Problem is words are very, very cheap and only money truly talks.

[Maximus]

Originally posted by XxXotic
heard it all before.... last month.... month before that.....

what I'd REALLY like to know, is why send out partial payments? My december check was short a few hundred bucks, i had to raise hell and chase WSB around for 2 weeks to get my money

then my January check didn't come till March, it TOO was a few hundred $ short and Ive had to chase WSB around AGAIN for 2 weeks and threaten legal action, which all that did was give me a response from CFF and not WSB (who i sent at least a dozen emails to and have yet to hear back from)

Now I'm hearing we'll be caught up by friday. Will you? Will I receive my FULL monies owed or will I be chasing WSB around again (assumably with no response as usual) for another 2-3 weeks?

Good example of what I have spoken of. As our monies come so do yours. Your short because each time we sent you a payment it is towards the balances brought forward beginning with the earliest month to latest. Again as we get it you get it. In the case of CFF they have volunteered to forgo thier portions to move their affiliates portions forward. We did let CFF know that we would be cutting checks for their affilliates this week. Some of you may not receive it exactly on friday some may receive it earlier.. But they will go out this week.


Hope this helps .

[Sausage]

A little late on cheques, but have always been right for me. Looking forward to getting my Feb cheque.

[XxXotic]

Originally posted by Maximus


Good example of what I have spoken of. As our monies come so do yours. Your short because each time we sent you a payment it is towards the balances brought forward beginning with the earliest month to latest. Again as we get it you get it. In the case of CFF they have volunteered to forgo thier portions to move their affiliates portions forward. We did let CFF know that we would be cutting checks for their affilliates this week. Some of you may not receive it exactly on friday some may receive it earlier.. But they will go out this week.


Hope this helps .

No, actually, it doesn't help at all. Paying me ON TIME and for the FULL amount would help. YOUR excuses don't pay MY bills do they? Is it my problem YOU didn't get paid? No... Do I care that you didn't get paid? Again... No! It's commendable that CFF is more worried about their webmasters getting paid then they are, my hats off to them for that, but them having to do that shouldn't even be an issue.

Talking to people from WSB is like talking to sock full of nickels. (when someone from WSB actually fucking says something) I'm appauled at the ineptitude of your 3rd rate company. I hate to have to shit talk you on boards, but since you jackasses never reply to emails I guess this is the only way to air my grievances.

Oh, and by the way, thanks for ignoring the dozen or more emails I sent to your company, top notch Customer Support.

[Kick Ass Chat]

This is all a bunch of crap. People have deals with WSB, and not their creditors. You owe the money to everyone who earned it from WSB...Plain and simple, NOT from anyone you made deals with.......... It's not our problem if you didnt get paid from someone

[pornguy]

Hey xxx sorry to hear about the problems that you have had with them. I only use them for phone access and so far ( 4 months) I have had no problems.

However, I learned from iBill the hard way not to put toooo many egg's in one basket.


I use several processors for different things, that way if something happens to one, I am not totally screwed..




Hang in there with WSB they really are a good company. If you choose to dump them try CCBill...

[tony286]

As our monies come so do yours

Are these your partners or customers? Doesnt your comany have any money to pay your customers? Thats why they pay the 15% so they dont have to wait for banks. Your company survives check to check?

[CDSmith]

Here in Winnipeg, if you can't afford to pay what you owe, you are *broke*.


Try telling a bank "when we get paid, you'll get my mortgage payment"..... life simply doesn't work that way.


Nice to actually see an "official announcement", but hopefully what follows is some poeple actually getting cheques, and for the proper amounts.

[Scootermuze]

I'd be interested in the penalties and interest that you are being paid by those that owe you... and I wonder why you aren't paying such penalties and interet to the webmasters that you have owed for quite some time...

It is the law ya know..

[Kick Ass Chat]

Originally posted by Scootermuze
I'd be interested in the penalties and interest that you are being paid by those that owe you... and I wonder why you aren't paying such penalties and interet to the webmasters that you have owed for quite some time...

It is the law ya know..

Because they are nothing but a bunch of Broke Crooks.....
and be asured all of the principals drive nice cars, live in nice houses, travel all over, etc...... And you wonder where the money is??

[Interlude]

Well then, that explains everything.

[XxXotic]

Originally posted by pornguy
Hey xxx sorry to hear about the problems that you have had with them. I only use them for phone access and so far ( 4 months) I have had no problems.

However, I learned from iBill the hard way not to put toooo many egg's in one basket.


I use several processors for different things, that way if something happens to one, I am not totally screwed..




Hang in there with WSB they really are a good company. If you choose to dump them try CCBill...

they owe me affiliate money, not for my processing. I'd let a 90 year old blind woman in a tutu with an abacus process for me before I EVER let WSB near my money.

[chupacabra]

I'd let a 90 year old blind woman in a tutu with an abacus process for me before I EVER let WSB near my money.

[HardProfits]

What we all have to consider is this

All of the billing companies (inc WSB who I dont use but know well) are facing an avalanche of issues regarding the processing of adult transactions

And I am amazed at some of the dumbass comments made by losers who dont understand that every well known IPSP in this industy is working their butts off, just so we can keep making bank

To all the losers out there who continue bashing on the IPSP's

And well done WSB for getting ont he boards and telling us your issues. Good luck

Daniel

[XxXotic]

Originally posted by HardProfits
What we all have to consider is this

All of the billing companies (inc WSB who I dont use but know well) are facing an avalanche of issues regarding the processing of adult transactions

And I am amazed at some of the dumbass comments made by losers who dont understand that every well known IPSP in this industy is working their butts off, just so we can keep making bank

To all the losers out there who continue bashing on the IPSP's

And well done WSB for getting ont he boards and telling us your issues. Good luck

Daniel

dude if you were owed as much money as some of us are you'd be singing a different tune. so unless you're directly effected by it i'll kindly ask you to order today's lunch special. a large STFU with a side of Shhhh

[4Pics]

Funny how you bash to the hilt WSB when it wasn't too long ago that Epoch had these issues and there are morons that support them right now.

Each processor has their problems, CCBill used to or still does process for underage sites, Ibill has their own problems and now WSB does.

Only way to control it is to get your own merchant account.

[XxXotic]

Originally posted by 4Pics
Funny how you bash to the hilt WSB when it wasn't too long ago that Epoch had these issues and there are morons that support them right now.

Each processor has their problems, CCBill used to or still does process for underage sites, Ibill has their own problems and now WSB does.

Only way to control it is to get your own merchant account.

Of them all, WSB is the only one who's fucked me on payments. i have no reason to bash anyone else. HAD WSB responded to my emails I wouldn't have to bash them on the boards.

Bashing them publically is the ONLY way to get a reply from WSB, or do you not bother to read the whole thread

[gothweb]

Some thoughts...

Your system is set-up so that a large client can get away with doing things that ruin things for the rest of us. Apparently, your banking relationships are weak enough that it can mean a stop on your money. Also, apparently you have so little cash on hand that when this happens, everything breaks down.

This raises two basic questions for me...

1.) How can your clients know this won't just happen again?

2.) How stable and trustworthy is your company?

For an operation like yours, you should have the money on hand to pay people. Your debt is to your clients, and they need not be concerned about why you can't pay. It is your responsibility, no matter what happens to your sources of money.

[Maximus]

Originally posted by XxXotic

Talking to people from WSB is like talking to sock full of nickels.

Not to make light of the subject but this is a great line.

A few affiliates are chronic complainers that dont want to hear anything but want all their money now. These folks email several times a week and make many many calls. It is impossible to pinpoint every check for everyone every time.. Im sure your questiones were answered the first few times you emailed.. Oddly enough the most persistant callers and emailers are usually those that make the least amount of money.

I would be happy to let you know how much you have coming to you CP.

[Maximus]

Originally posted by GirlsFrehahahahas
This is all a bunch of crap. People have deals with WSB, and not their creditors. You owe the money to everyone who earned it from WSB...Plain and simple, NOT from anyone you made deals with.......... It's not our problem if you didnt get paid from someone

We dont deal with creditors but acquires. We are not the bank but an extension of it. It is your problem when you work with a third party biller. People work with third party billers usually for one of three reasons.

They cant get their own merchant account for financial reasons.
They dont want to assume the heavy risk involved.
They just dont want to deal with the day to day customer service.

No Third party biller ever will gaurantee your transactions.. they would be out of business. We must pass on whatever the bank decrees. Remember they are not only holding your 10% holdback but also many weeks in the rears as they pay after a few weeks, as we do. This adds up to millions very quickly. People just need to be patient and cordial whenever possible to achieve the end goal of getting your money... without being laydowns.

If we were to front evey ones money...what would happen to WSB if by bad luck another merchat account went sour... it wouldnt be pretty. The way we are handling it every one is getting something consistently and the company is able to move forward and past

PS I would be happy to let you know how much your last check was for.

[Maximus]

Originally posted by pornguy
Hey xxx sorry to hear about the problems that you have had with them. I only use them for phone access and so far ( 4 months) I have had no problems.

However, I learned from iBill the hard way not to put toooo many egg's in one basket.


I use several processors for different things, that way if something happens to one, I am not totally screwed..




Hang in there with WSB they really are a good company. If you choose to dump them try CCBill...

Everyone should read your remarks as they are right on... Do your homework on these companies.

[Maximus]

Originally posted by CDSmith
Here in Winnipeg, if you can't afford to pay what you owe, you are *broke*.


Try telling a bank "when we get paid, you'll get my mortgage payment"..... life simply doesn't work that way.


Nice to actually see an "official announcement", but hopefully what follows is some poeple actually getting cheques, and for the proper amounts.

This would be a good time to remind people that we do have a minimum of 50.00 before a check is written. In other words your sales will roll over from month to month until you have a minimum of 50.00 coming to you.

[jact]

Originally posted by Maximus


Not to make light of the subject but this is a great line.

A few affiliates are chronic complainers that dont want to hear anything but want all their money now. These folks email several times a week and make many many calls. It is impossible to pinpoint every check for everyone every time.. Im sure your questiones were answered the first few times you emailed.. Oddly enough the most persistant callers and emailers are usually those that make the least amount of money.

I would be happy to let you know how much you have coming to you CP.

Amazing how you felt the need to make a dig instead of simply responding to a serious issue that has been made of your company for months now. Why you waited this long to address it is beyond me.

You're telling us that you simply ignore people? Wonderful customer service. I'll be sure to recommend you to all my friends.

[Maximus]

Originally posted by GirlsFrehahahahas


Because they are nothing but a bunch of Broke Crooks.....
and be asured all of the principals drive nice cars, live in nice houses, travel all over, etc...... And you wonder where the money is??

Yes the principals do drive nice cars and live in nice homes. Thats because they have built a business from 1996 that has survived the impossible and is still growing despite the road blocks. If they were crooks they would have absconded with your cash long ago...surely wouldnt be concerned about responding to affiliates and clients on a message board.

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by Maximus
We are not the bank but an extension of it. It is your problem when you work with a third party biller.

It's the problem of your clients and their affiliates?


Gotcha boss

[ServerGenius]

Originally posted by Maximus


Not to make light of the subject but this is a great line.

A few affiliates are chronic complainers that dont want to hear anything but want all their money now. These folks email several times a week and make many many calls. It is impossible to pinpoint every check for everyone every time.. Im sure your questiones were answered the first few times you emailed.. Oddly enough the most persistant callers and emailers are usually those that make the least amount of money.

I would be happy to let you know how much you have coming to you CP.

Very smart statement asshole. You should be glad that your
clients are only complaining and not sueing the living fuck out
of you.

Try to use your lame ass excuses at the bank for not paying
your mortgage and see what they will say. I already pulled all
my WSB weeks ago.....and reading your stupid ass remarks
assures me again that that was the right thing to do.

DynaMite

[SR]

All nice and sure I can wait some on my money but my last check was for the period 01-01-03 / 01-15-03
It's almost april now!
Could atleast have send out an e-mail to inform us a lil bit more.
I've stopped sending traffic a month ago and won't start sending a click until I have all my money.

Great move from cff tho to wait for their own money and let the affiliates be paid first.

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by Maximus
This would be a good time to remind people that we do have a minimum of 50.00 before a check is written. In other words your sales will roll over from month to month until you have a minimum of 50.00 coming to you.

Just a couple of things. First, it might be a good idea if you put this information somewhere inside the webmaster stats in plain view, so people don't need to be reminded on a message board.

Second, just for clarity, in my own case I sent only enough traffic to the one sponsor of mine that used WSB to earn enough to qualify for payment. This is standard practice for me when dealing with new sponsors and as-yet-unknown processors. If I've never worked with you before, you get test traffic and signups until I'm sure you pay. Fact is, I would love to dump higher traffic into that program, but I am owed a lousy $79 and you haven't yet found the means to actually pay me. This could just as easily have been $790 or more, but so far I'm glad I sent my hard-earned traffic to reliable sponsors.

And, on those 8 signups I have seen not one rebill in 2 1/2 months. Something is wrong. You know it, I know it, and people with 300 or more signups knows it too.

Lastly, I find it a bit vexing that you chose to ignore my comment about people who have mortgage payments telling their banks what you are telling them. That is.... "you'll get my mortgage payment when *I* get paid"...... as I said, the world simply doesn't work this way. Funny how it works this way in *your* case, but not mine. If I don't pay for long enough, the bank comes and takes my house.


Some "bitching" and complaining shouldn't be a surprise my friend, not in light of the fact that this trouble you're having has been affecting people for, as I understand it, 3 to 4 months now. Some complaining should have been expected, and dealt with professionally and courteously rather than with defiance of any sort. Another thing that shouldn't come as a shock is, when all is said and done, the some of your best clients (and all of their affiliates) are using a different processor.

[chupacabra]

Some complaining should have been expected, and dealt with professionally and courteously rather than with defiance of any sort.

well said... some people have been waiting an inordinate amount of time for what they are owed, and we've all seen *many* promises posted by company reps by now... most of which have not come to fruition..

[Maximus]

Originally posted by CDSmith
e.


Some "bitching" and complaining shouldn't be a surprise my friend, not in light of the fact that this trouble you're having has been affecting people for, as I understand it, 3 to 4 months now. Some complaining should have been expected, and dealt with professionally and courteously rather than with defiance of any sort. Another thing that shouldn't come as a shock is, when all is said and done, the some of your best clients (and all of their affiliates) are using a different processor.

Hey CD,

Nothing makes people madder than not getting there money. It makes us mad too. There is no doubt that the bitching and compalining is to be expected but there is a point at which the squeaky wheel get rusty and falls off no matter how much oil.

Your point is well taken though about posting something in the webmasters section. We have been under a bit of a gag order lately but i will push for a statement in the webmaster area to ease some of the confusion.

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by 4Pics
Funny how you bash to the hilt WSB when it wasn't too long ago that Epoch had these issues and there are morons that support them right now.

Valid point, but believe me I haven't forgotten about Epoch. Their troubles were mostly 3-4 years ago, but I never forget, and I have avoided sponsors that use Epoch like the plague. I have my reasons.


Ibill has only failed to pay me one time, and after a month I got a double-sized cheque in the correct amount.

ccbill's cheques, although smaller in my case as none of my main sponsors use them right now, have arrived in the mail on time, every time. Same with cheques from sponsors that use Jettis/Jetbill.



One side point:
Email/phone support is a huge point for most established webmasters. No one likes having their messages and emails go unanswered, it tends to tell us just how unimportant we are to a company. Ignore me for too long and I take my unimportant business elsewhere.

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by gothweb
Some thoughts...

Your system is set-up so that a large client can get away with doing things that ruin things for the rest of us. Apparently, your banking relationships are weak enough that it can mean a stop on your money. Also, apparently you have so little cash on hand that when this happens, everything breaks down.

This raises two basic questions for me...

1.) How can your clients know this won't just happen again?

2.) How stable and trustworthy is your company?

For an operation like yours, you should have the money on hand to pay people. Your debt is to your clients, and they need not be concerned about why you can't pay. It is your responsibility, no matter what happens to your sources of money.

Was wondering when someone ask this. Looks like WSB is/was betting on the come. for those that do not know what (betting on the come is) read 12clicks book

[Maximus]

Originally posted by CDSmith
It's the problem of your clients and their affiliates?


Gotcha boss

Its not that its your problem and thats that. If third party billers were to absorb fines penalties and delays all the time they would not be in business. remember that along with your funds, WSB commissions are also held up.. We are also doing without until it is returned. We are just as angry as you are.. if not more.

[ServerGenius]

Originally posted by Maximus



Hey CD,

Nothing makes people madder than not getting there money. It makes us mad too. There is no doubt that the bitching and compalining is to be expected but there is a point at which the squeaky wheel get rusty and falls off no matter how much oil.

Your point is well taken though about posting something in the webmasters section. We have been under a bit of a gag order lately but i will push for a statement in the webmaster area to ease some of the confusion.

If the statements done by your company are a reflection of the
profesionalism in your company then I can understand why
you as a company are not getting paid either. It´s a complete
fucking joke. And I´m holding back while making such statement
as clearly you don´t know how to handle 100% valid complaints
from people who trust(ed) you with their money

DynaMite

[ServerGenius]

Originally posted by Maximus


Its not that its your problem and thats that. If third party billers were to absorb fines penalties and delays all the time they would not be in business. remember that along with your funds, WSB commissions are also held up.. We are also doing without until it is returned. We are just as angry as you are.. if not more.

TRRRIIINNNGG WRONG AGAIN! If third party billers have such a
louzy system that they will get fined and are not being able to
absorb this they shouldn´t be in this business. You are taking
commisions and fees for processing, deduct fees as a hold back
for problems like this. If you can´t keep it under control then
you need to look at the way you handle business....

DynaMite

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by Maximus
Some of you are curious as to the status of Websitebilling. There are quite a few rumors as of late and perhaps I can shed some light.

The inappropriate activity of one particular large client caused one of our banking partners to hold funds.

Ok who fucked, cheated or the inappropriate activity caused this problem. I don't want to do business with them. ** WHO did IT ** make it public.

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by Maximus
Its not that its your problem and thats that. If third party billers were to absorb fines penalties and delays all the time they would not be in business. remember that along with your funds, WSB commissions are also held up.. We are also doing without until it is returned. We are just as angry as you are.. if not more.

I understood that. What I don't understand is, when a company is dealing in the millions per month, most of which rightfully belongs to clients and their affiliates, one would think that a "buffer fund" (I'm not up on all the fancy-shmancey banking terms, bear with me) or float pool would be in place to cover such delay times, no?

I don't claim to know all the inner workings of running a billing service, but the fact is that clients and their affiliates must be paid. Period. Taking some steps in future to assure that this never happens again is probably a wise thing to do, no?



So, let's cut to the chase here. When can people expect their money? I've seen posts on other threads from people that say they are owed many thousands still, so the "loudest complainers make the least money" theory isn't really all that accurate. Lay it out for everyone.... when?

[chupacabra]

** WHO did IT ** make it public.

i think the individuals and companies that run scammy operations on a large scale are protected by most people they deal w/, assumedly due to the ridiculously large amount of revenue they generate... legitimately or otherwise. in other words, i'd be shocked to see any disclosure from a processor..

[web4x]

[Maximus]

Originally posted by DynaSpain


Very smart statement asshole.
Try to use your lame ass excuses at the bank and reading your stupid ass remarks
assures me again that that was the right thing to do.

DynaMite

Hello Dyna,

Im getting an ass beating here.
You referred to me as an ass 3 times. Well we cant satisfy everyone all the time. Please understand that we are moving payments forward as we get them as fast as we can. I am sorry it didnt work out for you.

[Maximus]

Originally posted by SR
All nice and sure I can wait some on my money but my last check was for the period 01-01-03 / 01-15-03
It's almost april now!
Could atleast have send out an e-mail to inform us a lil bit more.
I've stopped sending traffic a month ago and won't start sending a click until I have all my money.

Great move from cff tho to wait for their own money and let the affiliates be paid first.

Yes we could have done a better job of informing people but we wanted to wait until we had more clarity form our banks as to what was happening. Im working on getting a statement on the website.

[Maximus]

Originally posted by chupacabra


i think the individuals and companies that run scammy operations on a large scale are protected by most people they deal w/, assumedly due to the ridiculously large amount of revenue they generate... legitimately or otherwise. in other words, i'd be shocked to see any disclosure from a processor..

You are right we cant disclose...but all issues are being resolved so please hang on to your seats.

[chupacabra]

You are right we cant disclose...but all issues are being resolved so please hang on to your seats.

i figured as much... well, can you at least tell us whether you will be *terminating* this particularly large client? i mean, their actions have obviously caused widespread havoc on your operations, and many headaches for your clients... please tell us your going to shitcan these assholes if they are operating so badly as to cause such problems. many current (and potential) users of your services would be very interested as to whether they would have to worry about similar incidents in the future due bad apples in the mix..

[Maximus]

Originally posted by DynaSpain


If the statements done by your company are a reflection of the
profesionalism in your company then I can understand why
you as a company are not getting paid either. It´s a complete
fucking joke. And I´m holding back while making such statement
as clearly you don´t know how to handle 100% valid complaints
from people who trust(ed) you with their money

DynaMite

Its simple actually. With the credit card companies ridiculous chargeback programs and the new IPSP regulations and the pressure they are applying to this industry it is no wonder that there are banks that get very spooked very fast. It is a joke your right. A few years ago you could have 5% chargebacks and you were able to give credits thru retrieveal requests. Now the threshold are as low as 1% and no credits can be given for disputes. That is serious pressure and it is a testament to the companies that are still making it and creating an environment for the webmaster to continue to make sales. Let Visa disallow completely the IPSP/Third party billers and see how many sites stay in business.