Does PPS really work?

[Pornkings]

this is still going

PPS makes money

Rev-share is for programs who don't have a large members database or finacial backing. And yes I know there are exceptions to everything

Like I said the program that can pay the webmaster the most at the end of the day and profit will do very well. it doesn't matter what payout model is.



that said webmasters who want to make more money call our 800 toll free number.

[Far-L]

Alex: I am not using icq these days... do you use trillion perhaps and would be able to use my im? (hgtimlake AT hotmail.com)

Sorry to be a pain. I could also email you a phone number if that would be more convenient. Been wanting to meet with you for a while so glad you asked btw.

[Alex From San Diego]

Alex: I am not using icq these days... do you use trillion perhaps and would be able to use my im? (hgtimlake AT hotmail.com)

Sorry to be a pain. I could also email you a phone number if that would be more convenient. Been wanting to meet with you for a while so glad you asked btw.

No pain at all : ))

You can email a number to alex AT jasonandalex.com

Here is my direct line: 858-587-9000 ext. 104

Look forward to talking to you.

[Far-L]

this is still going

PPS makes money

Rev-share is for programs who don't have a large members database or finacial backing. And yes I know there are exceptions to everything

Like I said the program that can pay the webmaster the most at the end of the day and profit will do very well. it doesn't matter what payout model is.



that said webmasters who want to make more money call our 800 toll free number.

Roger, please don't take this the wrong way but without showing a bit of how the numbers work your last post just comes off as hype and posturing for a sales pitch.

In my example, you would bleed the rev from a large member base faster than you would grow it. Also, what is "financial backing" is that like when an owner has to take a salary reduction to make sure the affiliates are getting paid rather than lose face by missing a payout? Or when an investor is called upon to ante up more for shares to cover overhead for the month? (without naming names... both are real life examples of pps program genius at work btw)

Marc De presented some numbers that made sense. I think your commentary would benefit from the same details.

[bigdog]

everyone's math is coming out different it seems, but you have to count xsells,mails,oneclicks,consoles and etc

[Pornkings]

Roger, please don't take this the wrong way but without showing a bit of how the numbers work your last post just comes off as hype and posturing for a sales pitch.

In my example, you would bleed the rev from a large member base faster than you would grow it. Also, what is "financial backing" is that like when an owner has to take a salary reduction to make sure the affiliates are getting paid rather than lose face by missing a payout? Or when an investor is called upon to ante up more for shares to cover overhead for the month? (without naming names... both are real life examples of pps program genius at work btw)

Marc De presented some numbers that made sense. I think your commentary would benefit from the same details.

It's a very competitive industry everyone has there long term goals. Why I don?t want to post numbers is very simple there are some things I?m not willing to share.

I helped many programs that are doing very well right now on PPS and created competition for us thinking it would be reciprocated. I learned my lesson.

Like I said those who can payout the webmaster more in the end gets the traffic. Very simple.

To answer your question yes sometimes you have to take a pay cut to gain webmasters I'm not looking to get rich I don't mind sharing the wealth and living a normal comfortable life..
I don't need millions

BTW my mother is going to launch a rev-share program next month
to compete with the 10000000's of others. LOL

From what I hear the average retention in this industry is 2 months now is this true?

[Pornkings]

Plus what I really meant was you don?t need much capitol to start a rev-share program but with PPS you do so the chances of them paying out more are more likely.

I?ve seen companies with both models go broke. And I?m sure everyone?s numbers look different depending on there overhead and location of there operation etc.

BTW we offer Both plus PPC/ Pay-per click

Whatever it takes to earn the traffic, I?m game even if I only profit a dollar of each transaction. Because I?m looking to stick around for a while and Branding is very important to me.

Don?t get me Wrong there are many Rev-share programs that are doing great I just haven?t had much luck with any of them.

And I think that?s why the larger programs only send to PPS because of the way the trials are structured and for some reason convert better and make us more.

I think it?s because most rev-share programs don?t have trials and are more difficult to convert. At least that?s what I noticed with our traffic. Which are SE, mail, exit and a few other resourses

[Marc De]

You need capital to start a PPS program to cover the months of being upside down (paying out more than comes in). You do this because it takes 6+ months to break even and then earn profits.

The beauty of revshare for many sites is it takes zero investment outside of your site to run. The processors cut the checks, the processors provide the stats, and if you ask me that is just too low of a barrier for entry.

[Pornkings]

You need capital to start a PPS program to cover the months of being upside down (paying out more than comes in). You do this because it takes 6+ months to break even and then earn profits.

The beauty of revshare for many sites is it takes zero investment outside of your site to run. The processors cut the checks, the processors provide the stats, and if you ask me that is just too low of a barrier for entry.

Exactly what i said.

This goes to show you can't make more on rev-share then PPS http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...=1#post6231890
I would rather get paid on a PPS trial program up front
then hoping to make the same amount with a rev-share program in 3 months.

PPS pays $20-50 on a trial.
Rev-share pays $10-15 Most of the time rev-share sites don't have trials

what do you think would convert better a full price site or a site with a trial?

I really don't care becasue we have all options LOL

[Alex From San Diego]

Exactly what i said.

This goes to show you can't make more on rev-share then PPS http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...=1#post6231890
I would rather get paid on a PPS trial program up front
then hoping to make the same amount with a rev-share program in 3 months.

PPS pays $20-50 on a trial.
Rev-share pays $10-15 Most of the time rev-share sites don't have trials

what do you think would convert better a full price site or a site with a trial?

I really don't care becasue we have all options LOL

Rev share programs don't have trials?....that is a new one to me and I have been around over 7 years. Shoot we have trials....lol

Actually with our own internal traffic we send to full joins rather than trial joins and actually convert just as well as we did with trials.

Think about what you just said. Do you really believe that on a 2.95 trial versus a 29.95 full join, ratios would be that much worse?

Here is one campaign of ours for full joins today.

Joins: 33
Ratio: 1:282
Dollars: $981.64

I would have had to do ~332 trials today to make the same amount of money.

Bottom line is if the surfer wants to join your site, he will regardless of a trial or not. Remember, surfers are spontaneous and want to get off.

It is all about the content and how it is presented.

[Amputate Your Head]

Rev share programs don't have trials?....that is a new one to me and I have been around over 7 years. Shoot we have trials....lol

Actually with our own internal traffic we send to full joins rather than trial joins and actually convert just as well as we did with trials.

Think about what you just said. Do you really believe that on a 2.95 trial versus a 29.95 full join, ratios would be that much worse?

Here is one campaign of ours for full joins today.

Joins: 33
Ratio: 1:282
Dollars: $981.64

I would have had to do ~332 trials today to make the same amount of money.

Bottom line is if the surfer wants to join your site, he will regardless of a trial or not. Remember, surfers are spontaneous and want to get off.

It is all about the content and how it is presented.

never contradict Roger.... he knows everything.

but on the other hand, wow... what a concept. Give them what they want instead of 40000 crap ass sites that ain't worth a nut hair.

[andrej_NDC]

Bottom line is if the surfer wants to join your site, he will regardless of a trial or not. Remember, surfers are spontaneous and want to get off.

It is all about the content and how it is presented.

yes, true.

btw I think we forgot one important thing, all sponsors claimed to pay 12-15% fees, but dont they have merchant accounts? What are the fees then? 1,5%? Its almost nothing. Even if I look at my fees now, I could buy a nice house soon with 1.5% fees just from the bonus income. Damn.

[Alex From San Diego]

yes, true.

btw I think we forgot one important thing, all sponsors claimed to pay 12-15% fees, but dont they have merchant accounts? What are the fees then? 1,5%? Its almost nothing. Even if I look at my fees now, I could buy a nice house soon with 1.5% fees just from the bonus income. Damn.

Just waiting for approval on our merchant account and it is actually 4.85% plus 20 cent per transaction.

[andrej_NDC]

Just waiting for approval on our merchant account and it is actually 4.85% plus 20 cent per transaction.

just checked netbilling and 2000charge and they ask 1.5% + 15 cents per trasaction. Or did I read something wrong?

[RogerV]

Rev share programs don't have trials?....that is a new one to me and I have been around over 7 years. Shoot we have trials....lol

Actually with our own internal traffic we send to full joins rather than trial joins and actually convert just as well as we did with trials.

Think about what you just said. Do you really believe that on a 2.95 trial versus a 29.95 full join, ratios would be that much worse?

Here is one campaign of ours for full joins today.

Joins: 33
Ratio: 1:282
Dollars: $981.64

I would have had to do ~332 trials today to make the same amount of money.

Bottom line is if the surfer wants to join your site, he will regardless of a trial or not. Remember, surfers are spontaneous and want to get off.

It is all about the content and how it is presented.

I totally disagree and I've tried just about everything to see what converts the best.

I'm not saying your wrong but i disagree from our own experience

[RRACY]

just checked netbilling and 2000charge and they ask 1.5% + 15 cents per trasaction. Or did I read something wrong?

Netbilling had an interesting thread about just that. Something they have to do boosts it up to about 5 or 6 percent.

[Pornkings]

never contradict Roger.... he knows everything.

but on the other hand, wow... what a concept. Give them what they want instead of 40000 crap ass sites that ain't worth a nut hair.

What are you saying we don't give them what they want? have you ever seen our members section. go back to posting. if your being a smart ass.

this should tell any type of webmaster what type of program they should be promoting. http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=410533

i guess everyone has shitty content LOL

Either option doesn't bother me because we offer them all so rev or PPS I don't care. But what I do know is the big traffic webmasters mainly send to our PPS.

Havn't you seen our paid trial program all the sites are full price then reacurring is only $5 a month.

To be honest I really don't care now everyone has there own opionion or experience

Good luck...........

[andrej_NDC]

Netbilling had an interesting thread about just that. Something they have to do boosts it up to about 5 or 6 percent.

thanks for the info, I guess I have to wait for the search function to find the thread

[Amputate Your Head]

What are you saying we don't give them what they want? have you ever seen our members section. go back to posting. if your being a smart ass.

It's a fuckin' miracle they ever get to the members area.

[Pornkings]

It's a fuckin' miracle they ever get to the members area.

I don't understand. what you are trying to imply.

Are you having another break down? What do you do in this industry again?
so all the gfyer's understand where your coming from.

[Amputate Your Head]

I don't understand. what you are trying to imply.

Are you having another break down? What do you do in this industry again?
so all the gfyer's understand where your coming from.

LOL

what do I do?

I make people like you rich.
Not you specifically of course....

[Pornkings]

LOL

what do I do?

I make people like you rich.
Not you specifically of course....

Really who have you made Rich?

I just saw why you got into a piss match with me. you got hired to whore Jason and alex's sig

[Amputate Your Head]

Really who have you made Rich?

I just saw why you got into a piss match with me. you got hired to whore Jason and alex's sig

you're a sharp cookie....
you got me. I'm a cheap sig whore.

[Pornkings]

you're a sharp cookie....
you got me. I'm a cheap sig whore.

so how do you make people like me Rich again. just so everyone on GFY understands. not to be a dick I just don't know.

[Amputate Your Head]

so how do you make people like me Rich again. just so everyone on GFY understands. not to be a dick I just don't know.

you really have no fucking clue who I am or what I do.... do you.

[Pornkings]

you really have no fucking clue who I am or what I do.... do you.

Nope.............

[Amputate Your Head]

Nope.............

that's okay.

wouldn't help you if you knew anyway.

[Pornkings]

that's okay.

wouldn't help you if you knew anyway.

interesting. the answer i thought I would get.

your right I do know everything...

[Alex From San Diego]

Let me help out here. He is only one of the best designers (IMHO, is the best)
and builds sites that sells...Even gay ones too....LOL

I don't know. Amp and I see eye to eye when it comes to marketing a site.
The guy knows what he is doing and there is no bullshit about him. He is organized and even though he is in Maui and we are here in San Diego, I always know what he is doing and what he has accomplished for the day.

It is just a pleasure to have him working with us.

Hope that helps : ))

[Pornkings]

Let me help out here. He is only one of the best designers (IMHO, is the best)
and builds sites that sells...Even gay ones too....LOL

I don't know. Amp and I see eye to eye when it comes to marketing a site.
The guy knows what he is doing and there is no bullshit about him. He is organized and even though he is in Maui and we are here in San Diego, I always know what he is doing and what he has accomplished for the day.

It is just a pleasure to have him working with us.

Hope that helps : ))

sorry we use Eroswebmaster and Quashe who i think are the best.

Lets have a contest you pick your best site and I'll do the same
we let everyone promote them and we give the best converting webmaster like 3k on top of what they made with us?

or something like that. I love contests and challenges might be the only way to resolve this argument.

[Amputate Your Head]

Quashe & Eros are good.

[Pornkings]

Quashe & Eros are good.

To be honest I havn't seen your work or maybe I have and didn't know it was you, either way I was responding to a thread becasue i didn't like the negative post about PPS.
I wasn't talking shit just stating my opinion. you got personal

If you want to continue i have no problem I'm bored right now.

[Amputate Your Head]

To be honest I havn't seen your work or maybe I have and didn't know it was you, either way I was responding to a thread becasue i didn't like the negative post about PPS.
I wasn't talking shit just stating my opinion. you got personal

If you want to continue i have no problem I'm bored right now.

on the contrary... it was never personal. Just business Roger.

[Amputate Your Head]

Roger, I bet you don't remember calling my studio, or even talking to me.... do you.

[Amputate Your Head]

check your phone logs....
I'm sure there aren't too many calls to Maui.

[Pornkings]

Roger, I bet you don't remember calling my studio, or even talking to me.... do you.

I don't. Did I offend you or something? are you sure it was me or Dave?

What gets me is I have never talked shit about anyone or fucked anyone in this biz. yet people still get smart with me sometimes and I'm not going to let people insult me or Pornkings in anyway.

[Marc De]

Rev share programs don't have trials?....that is a new one to me and I have been around over 7 years. Shoot we have trials....lol

Actually with our own internal traffic we send to full joins rather than trial joins and actually convert just as well as we did with trials.

Think about what you just said. Do you really believe that on a 2.95 trial versus a 29.95 full join, ratios would be that much worse?

Here is one campaign of ours for full joins today.

Joins: 33
Ratio: 1:282
Dollars: $981.64

I would have had to do ~332 trials today to make the same amount of money.

Bottom line is if the surfer wants to join your site, he will regardless of a trial or not. Remember, surfers are spontaneous and want to get off.

It is all about the content and how it is presented.

Seriously? What a discovery you just made, everyone offering trials must just be INSANE and love giving the shit away. How could we have been blind for so many years? You better make a press release about that so we can all see the light and get rid of ALL trials since they are worthless

Sorry, I'm picking on you too much today and its not really in my nature... Just bustin your balls a bit I mean no harm!

[Amputate Your Head]

I don't. Did I offend you or something? are you sure it was me or Dave?

What gets me is I have never talked shit about anyone or fucked anyone in this biz. yet people still get smart with me sometimes and I'm not going to let people insult me or Pornkings in anyway.

no, not directly.... and certainly not personally. But things are always relative. Like I said, never intended anything in here to be personal, it's all just business.
"I'm not going to let people insult me or __________ in anyway..."
Me either.

but don't dwell on it too much. We should all relax more. Life is short.

[Pornkings]

Seriously? What a discovery you just made, everyone offering trials must just be INSANE and love giving the shit away. How could we have been blind for so many years? You better make a press release about that so we can all see the light and get rid of ALL trials since they are worthless

Sorry, I'm picking on you too much today and its not really in my nature... Just bustin your balls a bit I mean no harm!

Marc De we must be the only ones who don't get it. not only do we payout a lot we also are stupid for sponsoring and giving back to the industry. I forgot its all free

We don't know what we are doing. lets just switch to rev-share

[Alex From San Diego]

Seriously? What a discovery you just made, everyone offering trials must just be INSANE and love giving the shit away. How could we have been blind for so many years? You better make a press release about that so we can all see the light and get rid of ALL trials since they are worthless

Sorry, I'm picking on you too much today and its not really in my nature... Just bustin your balls a bit I mean no harm!

I'm actually honored that Marc de is busting my balls....

I don't take things personal. No harm , no foul : ))

I'd actually like to meet with you in vegas. You have a lot ot offer. I'm not even sure you know who I am other than one guy from JasonandAlex.com.

Our other company always did well with your sites Marc and to be honest so are your new ones. You have to be doing something right for us to continue to push your product.


Let me add this Marc, you have to admit 1:282 is not bad for sending to full joins. Trust me, we know what we are doing and have been doing it for years : ))

[Pornkings]

no, not directly.... and certainly not personally. But things are always relative. Like I said, never intended anything in here to be personal, it's all just business.
"I'm not going to let people insult me or __________ in anyway..."
Me either.

but don't dwell on it too much. We should all relax more. Life is short.

Sounds great and have a good new year. I get over things quick your right life is to short

[angelsofporn]

I've noticed most of the x-sell percentages in this thread are off. Surfers are much smarter than they were even a year ago concerning them. They tend to go through 11-14% now. Thats the past 2 months numbers crunched.
A year ago it was about 25%

[Far-L]

Let's go back to the numbers...

Using my same example from before... Take into account that xsells are down, mailings are down, consoles are down, type ins/bookmarks/one clicks are going to be good only if the site is exclusive, well branded, and worth the price, and whatever else is left over like VOD or Live Show upsells from the member's area to make income with:

These numbers are ambitious imo...

Add xsells @ 12% which only count on joins, not trials... so 12% of 35 joins = approx. 4 joins

Add mailings... if out of those 100 trials say 10% (ambitious) join the mailing list, then that means 10 names and if you got 10% return on those names that would equal one join.

Say on every 100 trials you get 1 console sign up on between 1 and 4 exit consoles presented (ambitious) and add another join...

Then for every 100 trials there are 15 type in or direct non-affiliate joins...

Now you have an additional 21 joins which equal about $47 bucks per based on 4 month aging and 30% retention which comes to an additional $987. Add that to your original earning of about $1650 for a total of $2637 over four months. That would barely cover paying out $25 per join for those first 100 paid trials.

Here is where I tend to hear all the things like "you need to know how to monetize the traffic", and "we make it up on volume". How does volume change anything except the bleedrate? Where else can you monetize or improve percentages?

This is not counting VOD or Live Chat upsells but those numbers are going to have to be amazing. To balance that omission I also didn't count all the other overhead costs associated with running a biz. Some may say they can do these or better percentages to make it worthwhile but I think am presenting a fairly "savvy" level of sales conversion as a measure of core competency.

[speakthetruth]

"The beauty of revshare for many sites is it takes zero investment outside of your site to run. The processors cut the checks, the processors provide the stats, and if you ask me that is just too low of a barrier for entry."


Well said.

Alex, so you are getting a merchant account? Good luck. If you can not figure out the pay per join model, a merchant account if well over your head.

[Far-L]

Let me add this Marc, you have to admit 1:282 is not bad for sending to full joins. Trust me, we know what we are doing and have been doing it for years : ))

We are doing no trial full join memberships and doing quite well with them too...

[Far-L]

"The beauty of revshare for many sites is it takes zero investment outside of your site to run. The processors cut the checks, the processors provide the stats, and if you ask me that is just too low of a barrier for entry."


Well said.

Alex, so you are getting a merchant account? Good luck. If you can not figure out the pay per join model, a merchant account if well over your head.

?

Who peed in your Wheaties this morning?

I know too many companies that are screwed with banks now because of how they worked pps with aggressive xsells. Many of these companies still posture themselves as huge successes and fountains of the special wisdom that only being somehow annointed a "Playa" entitles them too. They hang by a thread with their merchant accounts in the balance about to be completely blacklisted.

In a move I respect, even Marc De acknowledged having to deal with chargeback issues which so many others won't.

[Shoehorn!]

Not to be offensive but that spreadsheet is very poorly done. It doesn't include a number of apparent issues with running a program. The biggest and most obvious is the lack of processing fees, chargebacks, refunds, and overhead expenses.

Also, you didn't account for other additional revenue associated with running a program, including www sales, other non referred sales, members upgrades, emailing opportunities, etc...

PPS works!! Its all about numbers and running an ACCURATE spreadsheet and hitting all your controllables.

Very informative.

[Pornwolf]

In a move I respect, even Marc De acknowledged having to deal with chargeback issues which so many others won't.

I totally agree. He is being very frank about what happened. Although no one liked it at the time, I think we all understand the steps he took to stay in business by now.

[Far-L]

I totally agree. He is being very frank about what happened. Although no one liked it at the time, I think we all understand the steps he took to stay in business by now.

I don't know Marc personally but I do know the extent to which ARS has been involved with our very expensive fight with Acacia and I know that any company that has come this far with us is completely stand up imo, not only for themselves but the benefit of the entire industry.

I should say again for the record that I am not a big fan of revshare either. As a sponsor I look at what is best for my company from that perspective. However, if I were a webmaster and not a sponsor, I would diversify and put 50% to 70% of my effort into the highest paying pps, then I would do the rest in revshare and count the days to when the pps was going to go under; secure that my other income would keep coming in while I rebounded into something solid like what ARS or Homegrown Video would offer for example... something stable that will be around forever...

I would rather make less money day to day but more over many years than more money one day or another and less over many years.

[Varius]

I just want to chip in my experience with trial versus no trial (again from an adult dating perspective, not adult).

We had 2.95 for one week which rebilled to 24.95 per month. We decided to raise that to 4.95 for one week and there was almost no difference in signups (so more cash for us). We then got rid of the one-week trial all together and the minimum membership was 24.95

We had very close number of signups, but worth much more

(and yes, the number of initial 24.95 was now making more than the trial + those who did renew after one week at 24.95...)

I think basically what it comes down to, is many surfers will go for the cheapest choice available. If you eliminate that choice, many will still signups. Thinking 'we will get way more signups at $5 than $25' just wasn't the case, atleast for us

Then again, with adult you have WAY more competition, so the surfer might say 'this site is too expensive, let me go find a cheap one'.