SPONSORS THAT USE NATS: Will you pay up ?? - GoFuckYourself.com

fünkmaster · 03-30-2005, 04:35 PM

Electracash reports that out of 275 rebills 270 are missing, where I come from that's approx 95% shave on rebills. jasonandalex says it's NATS fault, so what will sponsors that use NATS do?

... pay up, or stay invisible ??

Alex · 03-30-2005, 04:37 PM

Nats is unshavable NOOB go home.

But in all seriousness. Shaving is when the sponsor purposely doesnt count joins/rebills.

This was a NAtS issue

Relish XXX · 03-30-2005, 04:37 PM

I bet most wont.

After Shock Media · 03-30-2005, 04:38 PM

Should this not be sponsors who were using Nats + ACH through electracash?

StuartD · 03-30-2005, 04:39 PM

Not all sponsors that have NATS use the same processors

triumph · 03-30-2005, 04:40 PM

good question.

GotGauge · 03-30-2005, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Nats is unshavable NOOB go home.

But in all seriousness. Shaving is when the sponsor purposely doesnt count joins/rebills.

This was a NAtS issue

From what I read, it was the Billing company changing the postback codes..

Shooting_Manic · 03-30-2005, 04:41 PM

That sounds about right GotGauge. This all seems to weird.

Veterans Day · 03-30-2005, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Nats is unshavable NOOB go home.

AaronM · 03-30-2005, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Nats is unshavable NOOB go home.

HORSE SHIT!

And that's all that I have to publicly say about that.....BUT.....You can bet your ass that I just bookmarked this thread so I can point back to it at a later time to remind you of what you just said.

Alex · 03-30-2005, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

HORSE SHIT!

And that's all that I have to publicly say about that.....BUT.....You can bet your ass that I just bookmarked this thread so I can point back to it at a later time to remind you of what you just said.

Wait you thought i was serious?

I thought we all knew if anyone wants to shave they will.

JSA Matt · 03-30-2005, 04:49 PM

I sensed a little sarcasm in his post, Aaron

I could be wrong though... and there are tons of ways to shave with NATS or any software for that matter

andrej_NDC · 03-30-2005, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSA Matt

I sensed a little sarcasm in his post, Aaron

me too

Makingcoin · 03-30-2005, 04:58 PM

We don't use Electracash, but yes we would pay.

Matt_WildCash · 03-30-2005, 05:22 PM

Its the billing company problem and NATS was still working on it when J&A moved off NATS. Most NATS programs don't use electracash either cause there support and database is freaking terrible. One of the main reasons NATS was having issues I bet was cause Electracash has such terrbile support. I can't even email my sales people there or get any reply on tech support issues

fris · 03-30-2005, 05:24 PM

i just farted

KMR Stitch · 03-30-2005, 05:26 PM

See sig And Alex just showed a ratio of 2:2 Shave + 3/^2 -1 + 5 = Shave

Platinumpimp · 03-30-2005, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fris

i just farted

And a few signups popped out?

Tat2Jr · 03-30-2005, 05:27 PM

Never have used Electracash (and won't after reading these threads, since everyone has reported problems with every back end), but of course we'd pay.

I never bought into that whole "non-shavable" crap either. That's like me saying I'm not gonna get laid this year.... Chances are pretty damn good I won't, but I'd never say it couldn't happen.

Methodcash Rick · 03-30-2005, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fünkmaster

Electracash reports that out of 275 rebills 270 are missing, where I come from that's approx 95% shave on rebills. jasonandalex says it's NATS fault, so what will sponsors that use NATS do?

... pay up, or stay invisible ??

If we used ElectraCash for our check processing, you can damn sure bet we'd be stepping up to the plate and doing the right thing by our affiliates, those who wouldn't deserve to be shut down...

Kimmykim · 03-30-2005, 05:39 PM

Unless I'm mistaken, the first NATS clients to get an Electracash integration were JSA. When the issue was found, NATS asked JSA to use a different ACH processor while working to resolve the problem with Electracash. New clients coming on board who had Electracash accounts were also asked not to use them as their ACH processor until the situation was suitably resolved.

So I don't think there are more than a couple at best, and it may be that JSA is the only case of this occurrence.

Accusing other sponsors of stealing from their affiliates is a completely ridiculous thing to do.

Attack if you like for my comments, I'm finally off to the airport, about 5 hours later than my flight.

I'll see those of you in Phoenix who are coming, and if you'd like to speak to John or Charlie personally about the issue, let me know. If you don't see them around the show, I'll be happy to set up time for you to talk with them.

PokerCams · 03-30-2005, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

HORSE SHIT!

And that's all that I have to publicly say about that.....BUT.....You can bet your ass that I just bookmarked this thread so I can point back to it at a later time to remind you of what you just said.

ya - I was just thinking the same - nothing is totally safe from shaving - no matter how bullet proof they claim to be

Lensman · 03-30-2005, 05:45 PM

RealityCash does not use Electracash for checks, I'd glad to say.

But I wonder about Aaron's statement, how can you deliberately and secretly shave with Nats? I don't know how, all I can think of is to change the join page to go thru other software, but affiliates can figure than one out in about one minute! I'll be the first one to say that Nats is not perfect, but it's not shavable and the code is not editable (too bad too, but there are some features we've been asking for that I would rather just have our guys add, but we can't).

I think if people say that a certain package can deliberately and secretly shave, they should say how.

V_RocKs · 03-30-2005, 05:49 PM

The Electracash problem has been FIXED. Most sponsors don't use Electracash that use NATS.. you are trying to make a big issue out of a niche problem...

You are a drama Queen and I do say that makes you a faggot.

fünkmaster · 03-30-2005, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lensman

RealityCash does not use Electracash for checks, I'd glad to say.

But I wonder about Aaron's statement, how can you deliberately and secretly shave with Nats? I don't know how, all I can think of is to change the join page to go thru other software, but affiliates can figure than one out in about one minute! I'll be the first one to say that Nats is not perfect, but it's not shavable and the code is not editable (too bad too, but there are some features we've been asking for that I would rather just have our guys add, but we can't).

I think if people say that a certain package can deliberately and secretly shave, they should say how.

... you just drop the reseller ID or override it with you house ID before passing that data on to NATS, talk to my good old buddy greg lasrado and his american , ex IBILL, friend bob cox, they know all the dirty tricks.

AaronM · 03-30-2005, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lensman

RealityCash does not use Electracash for checks, I'd glad to say.

But I wonder about Aaron's statement, how can you deliberately and secretly shave with Nats? I don't know how, ......

I wonder how much money information like this might be worth privately?

Nah....Not my style.

Besides.....I was probably just talking out my ass again as usual. Pay no attention.

DirtyDanza · 03-30-2005, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lensman

RealityCash does not use Electracash for checks, I'd glad to say.

But I wonder about Aaron's statement, how can you deliberately and secretly shave with Nats? I don't know how, all I can think of is to change the join page to go thru other software, but affiliates can figure than one out in about one minute! I'll be the first one to say that Nats is not perfect, but it's not shavable and the code is not editable (too bad too, but there are some features we've been asking for that I would rather just have our guys add, but we can't).

I think if people say that a certain package can deliberately and secretly shave, they should say how.

I agree we have some things we want to add as well but it makes it really hard when the code is tottally hidden... but none the less were really happy with nats

Lensman · 03-30-2005, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fünkmaster

... you just drop the reseller ID or override it with you house ID before passing that data on to NATS, talk to my good old buddy greg lasrado and his american , ex IBILL, friend bob cox, they know all the dirty tricks.

Affliates can see that. View source on the join page: <input type="hidden" name="nats" value="MTE3OjU6NQ">. Besides, an affiliate can simply pull out his own credit card and see if he gets credit for the join. Check joins may be delayed because of normal time-based fraud delays, but credit cards never are. So there are two ways affiliates can detect that in one minute.

AaronM · 03-30-2005, 06:04 PM

Nevermind

fünkmaster · 03-30-2005, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lensman

Affliates can see that. View source on the join page: <input type="hidden" name="nats" value="MTE3OjU6NQ">

... agreed, but then again that's what sponsors would call "a glitch".

Methodcash Rick · 03-30-2005, 06:08 PM

There's a much easier way than described above..

Lensman · 03-30-2005, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fünkmaster

... agreed, but then again that's what sponsors would call "a glitch".

OK, so we agree there is no way to secretly and deliberatly shave Nats.

What are they paying Kimmy? I want the same!

JSA Matt · 03-30-2005, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lensman

Affliates can see that. View source on the join page: <input type="hidden" name="nats" value="MTE3OjU6NQ">. Besides, an affiliate can simply pull out his own credit card and see if he gets credit for the join. Check joins may be delayed because of normal time-based fraud delays, but credit cards never are. So there are two ways affiliates can detect that in one minute.

Simply changing the first letter in a NATS code to lowercase will result in a sale to the default NATS account

Example: MTE3OjU6NQ to mTE3OjU6NQ (Or another example: MTE3OjU6NQ to MtE3OjU6NQ)

Of course it's not fool proof, but it's one of many possibilities

AaronM · 03-30-2005, 06:12 PM

So I'm sitting here in Raven's living room....She is sitting in front of me telling me.....in not so many words.....To STFU.

So, that's exactly what I am gonna do.

AaronM · 03-30-2005, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSA Matt

Simply changing the first letter in a NATS code to lowercase will result in a sale to the default NATS account

Example: MTE3OjU6NQ to mTE3OjU6NQ (Or another example: MTE3OjU6NQ to MtE3OjU6NQ)

Of course it's not fool proof, but it's one of many possibilities

Gee....Who knew?

Matt, let it go.

Lensman · 03-30-2005, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSA Matt

Simply changing the first letter in a NATS code to lowercase will result in a sale to the default NATS account

Example: MTE3OjU6NQ to mTE3OjU6NQ (Or another example: MTE3OjU6NQ to MtE3OjU6NQ)

Of course it's not fool proof, but it's one of many possibilities

Same thing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lensman

Affliates can see that. View source on the join page: <input type="hidden" name="nats" value="MTE3OjU6NQ">. Besides, an affiliate can simply pull out his own credit card and see if he gets credit for the join. Check joins may be delayed because of normal time-based fraud delays, but credit cards never are. So there are two ways affiliates can detect that in one minute.

PokerCams · 03-30-2005, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lensman

Affliates can see that. View source on the join page: <input type="hidden" name="nats" value="MTE3OjU6NQ">. Besides, an affiliate can simply pull out his own credit card and see if he gets credit for the join. Check joins may be delayed because of normal time-based fraud delays, but credit cards never are. So there are two ways affiliates can detect that in one minute.

yes - they can pull out their own cc and test it - but probably only 5% actually would do that

JSA Matt · 03-30-2005, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

Gee....Who knew?

Matt, let it go.

Well I see a lot of truth in Lensman's post...

"I think if people say that a certain package can deliberately and secretly shave, they should say how."

It should be public knowledge and affiliates should be watching for stuff like this..

I will not give any more example on the board though

PokerCams · 03-30-2005, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB-Rick

There's a much easier way than described above..

and that is?

TurboAngel · 03-30-2005, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

So I'm sitting here in Raven's living room....She is sitting in front of me telling me.....in not so many words.....To STFU.

So, that's exactly what I am gonna do.

I wish I was there!

SmokeyTheBear · 03-30-2005, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lensman

I think if people say that a certain package can deliberately and secretly shave, they should say how.

Well i can tell you several ways , but NATS doesnt really have much to do with them.

Lets take the recent example of the realitycash FHG's that were being redirected to 10dollarcash sites.

Totally honest mistake , and i find no fault in realitycash in any way , but using the same method one could simply forward those 404's back to the originating program.

For example. lets say the galleries are for realitycash MILF site, and im sending traffic to the FHG's from my tgp.

So you have the FHG's on several servers to help balance the loads. All you have to do is remove that gallery from one of the servers for a certain amount of time each day, or if you were clever you would simply do what tgp cheaters do and track the ip of each affiliate and then make sure they never see the 404. Or rotate out the galleries.

The only way to find out would be to check 1000 fhg's source code for your NATS code ( that changes for each program ) every day.

LeeNoga · 03-30-2005, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platinumpimp

And a few signups popped out?

Yes, with lingering rebills!

Methodcash Rick · 03-30-2005, 06:17 PM

OK, say you run 3 different processors,

There is a cron job that runs nightly for each of those processors which polls the processors, and pulls in renewals, cancellations, CB, & credits..

Since ( for most ) NATS does not control the addition and deletion of the username and password, there would be no "real" need to run the cron job for say 1 of the 3 processors..

So if you don't run 1 of the three cronjobs that pulls rebills from the processors, you just shaved all the rebills from that procesor, and the affiliate would never know, as NATS doesn't show them WHO rebilled, and WHICH processor the rebills came from...

Now granted, NATS could probably easily catch a program that is doing something like this, and it's quite possible that they have something in the code to monitor that to keep it from happening...

xlogger · 03-30-2005, 06:18 PM

I dont think NATS will like this thread very much.

Lensman · 03-30-2005, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

Well i can tell you several ways , but NATS doesnt really have much to do with them.

Lets take the recent example of the realitycash FHG's that were being redirected to 10dollarcash sites.

Totally honest mistake , and i find no fault in realitycash in any way , but using the same method one could simply forward those 404's back to the originating program.

For example. lets say the galleries are for realitycash MILF site, and im sending traffic to the FHG's from my tgp.

So you have the FHG's on several servers to help balance the loads. All you have to do is remove that gallery from one of the servers for a certain amount of time each day, or if you were clever you would simply do what tgp cheaters do and track the ip of each affiliate and then make sure they never see the 404. Or rotate out the galleries.

The only way to find out would be to check 1000 fhg's source code for your NATS code ( that changes for each program ) every day.

That has nothing to do with Nats, that is a hosted gallery problem, and is detectable by affiliates.

SmokeyTheBear · 03-30-2005, 06:19 PM

In conclusion.

Is NATS shaveable? NO.

Can you use NATS and still shave? YES

Is there really much difference ? Not really.

Should people go with nats because they think it means they cant be shaved ? Not in my opinion.

Is NATS a great piece of software ? From everything i have heard it is, other than some minor glitches.

Lensman · 03-30-2005, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB-Rick

OK, say you run 3 different processors,

There is a cron job that runs nightly for each of those processors which polls the processors, and pulls in renewals, cancellations, CB, & credits..

Since ( for most ) NATS does not control the addition and deletion of the username and password, there would be no "real" need to run the cron job for say 1 of the 3 processors..

So if you don't run 1 of the three cronjobs that pulls rebills from the processors, you just shaved all the rebills from that procesor, and the affiliate would never know, as NATS doesn't show them WHO rebilled, and WHICH processor the rebills came from...

Now granted, NATS could probably easily catch a program that is doing something like this, and it's quite possible that they have something in the code to monitor that to keep it from happening...

I think Nats would catch that, and even if it didn't, it would only effect reshare programs, it would not allow a per-signup program like RealityCash to shave.

SmokeyTheBear · 03-30-2005, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lensman

That has nothing to do with Nats, that is a hosted gallery problem, and is detectable by affiliates.

Yes i agree it doesnt really have anything to do with NATS , other than the fact that it could be used with NATS. So the fact a sponsor uses NATS doesnt mean they dont shave , thats all i was trying to say.. Because NATS was sort of promoted in that manner i think its only fair to say..

And in my example above , it wont be detected by affiliates unless they check each page thousands of times a day .. ( thats not feasable )

03-30-2005, 06:41 PM

Duke Dollars does not use Electracash. If we owed, it would be paid for sure. We paid out on IBill, so this would be no different.

AaronM · 03-30-2005, 06:42 PM

See Sig!

03-30-2005, 04:35 PM	#1
fünkmaster So Fucking Banned Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 791	SPONSORS THAT USE NATS: Will you pay up ?? Electracash reports that out of 275 rebills 270 are missing, where I come from that's approx 95% shave on rebills. jasonandalex says it's NATS fault, so what will sponsors that use NATS do? ... pay up, or stay invisible ??

03-30-2005, 04:37 PM	#2
Alex So Fucking Banned (YEA!!) Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 10,963	Nats is unshavable NOOB go home. But in all seriousness. Shaving is when the sponsor purposely doesnt count joins/rebills. This was a NAtS issue __________________ Care about me? Who? Me! Who?

03-30-2005, 04:37 PM	#3
Relish XXX Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: www.adultlabel.com Posts: 4,904	I bet most wont. __________________

03-30-2005, 04:39 PM	#5
StuartD Sofa King Band Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Outside the box Posts: 29,903	Not all sponsors that have NATS use the same processors __________________ This is me on facebook This is me on twitter

03-30-2005, 04:41 PM	#8
Shooting_Manic Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: NY Posts: 1,740	That sounds about right GotGauge. This all seems to weird. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60. Last edited by Shooting_Manic; 03-30-2005 at 04:42 PM..

03-30-2005, 04:38 PM	#4
After Shock Media It's coming look busy Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn". Posts: 35,299	Should this not be sponsors who were using Nats + ACH through electracash?

03-30-2005, 04:40 PM	#6
triumph Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,433	good question.

03-30-2005, 04:49 PM	#12
JSA Matt So Fucking Banned Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 5,464	I sensed a little sarcasm in his post, Aaron I could be wrong though... and there are tons of ways to shave with NATS or any software for that matter

03-30-2005, 04:58 PM	#14
Makingcoin Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Ditch Posts: 8,919	We don't use Electracash, but yes we would pay. __________________ www.MAKINGCOIN.com icq. 166-662-831 "Start making large coin!" Daddy I Get Paid To Be A Whore - Coming Soon

03-30-2005, 05:22 PM	#15
Matt_WildCash Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,699	Its the billing company problem and NATS was still working on it when J&A moved off NATS. Most NATS programs don't use electracash either cause there support and database is freaking terrible. One of the main reasons NATS was having issues I bet was cause Electracash has such terrbile support. I can't even email my sales people there or get any reply on tech support issues

03-30-2005, 05:24 PM	#16
fris Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 55,372	i just farted __________________ Since 1999: 69 Adult Industry awards for Best Hosting Company and professional excellence. WP Stuff

03-30-2005, 05:26 PM	#17
KMR Stitch I am cool Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 14,494	See sig And Alex just showed a ratio of 2:2 Shave + 3/^2 -1 + 5 = Shave

03-30-2005, 05:27 PM	#19
Tat2Jr Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Sunny California Posts: 4,882	Never have used Electracash (and won't after reading these threads, since everyone has reported problems with every back end), but of course we'd pay. I never bought into that whole "non-shavable" crap either. That's like me saying I'm not gonna get laid this year.... Chances are pretty damn good I won't, but I'd never say it couldn't happen. __________________ NICHE MONEY >> Ass Worship • Panties • Solo Teen • Pantyhose Serving up exclusive fetish sites since 1997! Last edited by Tat2Jr; 03-30-2005 at 05:29 PM..

03-30-2005, 05:39 PM	#21
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Unless I'm mistaken, the first NATS clients to get an Electracash integration were JSA. When the issue was found, NATS asked JSA to use a different ACH processor while working to resolve the problem with Electracash. New clients coming on board who had Electracash accounts were also asked not to use them as their ACH processor until the situation was suitably resolved. So I don't think there are more than a couple at best, and it may be that JSA is the only case of this occurrence. Accusing other sponsors of stealing from their affiliates is a completely ridiculous thing to do. Attack if you like for my comments, I'm finally off to the airport, about 5 hours later than my flight. I'll see those of you in Phoenix who are coming, and if you'd like to speak to John or Charlie personally about the issue, let me know. If you don't see them around the show, I'll be happy to set up time for you to talk with them.

03-30-2005, 05:45 PM	#23
Lensman GFY Chaperone Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Adult.com Posts: 9,846	RealityCash does not use Electracash for checks, I'd glad to say. But I wonder about Aaron's statement, how can you deliberately and secretly shave with Nats? I don't know how, all I can think of is to change the join page to go thru other software, but affiliates can figure than one out in about one minute! I'll be the first one to say that Nats is not perfect, but it's not shavable and the code is not editable (too bad too, but there are some features we've been asking for that I would rather just have our guys add, but we can't). I think if people say that a certain package can deliberately and secretly shave, they should say how. Last edited by Lensman; 03-30-2005 at 05:46 PM..

03-30-2005, 05:49 PM	#24
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,409	The Electracash problem has been FIXED. Most sponsors don't use Electracash that use NATS.. you are trying to make a big issue out of a niche problem... You are a drama Queen and I do say that makes you a faggot.

03-30-2005, 06:04 PM	#29
AaronM Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: ┌∩┐ ◣_◢ ┌∩┐ Posts: 46,909	Nevermind

03-30-2005, 06:08 PM	#31
Methodcash Rick Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,720	There's a much easier way than described above..

03-30-2005, 06:12 PM	#34
AaronM Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: ┌∩┐ ◣_◢ ┌∩┐ Posts: 46,909	So I'm sitting here in Raven's living room....She is sitting in front of me telling me.....in not so many words.....To STFU. So, that's exactly what I am gonna do.

03-30-2005, 06:17 PM	#43
Methodcash Rick Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,720	OK, say you run 3 different processors, There is a cron job that runs nightly for each of those processors which polls the processors, and pulls in renewals, cancellations, CB, & credits.. Since ( for most ) NATS does not control the addition and deletion of the username and password, there would be no "real" need to run the cron job for say 1 of the 3 processors.. So if you don't run 1 of the three cronjobs that pulls rebills from the processors, you just shaved all the rebills from that procesor, and the affiliate would never know, as NATS doesn't show them WHO rebilled, and WHICH processor the rebills came from... Now granted, NATS could probably easily catch a program that is doing something like this, and it's quite possible that they have something in the code to monitor that to keep it from happening...

03-30-2005, 06:18 PM	#44
xlogger Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: NY Posts: 9,507	I dont think NATS will like this thread very much. __________________ ---------- XLOGGER [REFLECTED] [OH]

03-30-2005, 06:19 PM	#46
SmokeyTheBear ►SouthOfHeaven Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: PlanetEarth MyBoardRank: GerbilMaster My-Penis-Size: extralarge MyWeapon: Computer Posts: 28,609	In conclusion. Is NATS shaveable? NO. Can you use NATS and still shave? YES Is there really much difference ? Not really. Should people go with nats because they think it means they cant be shaved ? Not in my opinion. Is NATS a great piece of software ? From everything i have heard it is, other than some minor glitches. __________________ hatisblack at yahoo.com

03-30-2005, 06:41 PM	#49
shermo Guest Posts: n/a	Duke Dollars does not use Electracash. If we owed, it would be paid for sure. We paid out on IBill, so this would be no different.

03-30-2005, 06:42 PM	#50
AaronM Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: ┌∩┐ ◣_◢ ┌∩┐ Posts: 46,909	See Sig!