Due to patent infringement Microsoft is changing IE... - GoFuckYourself.com

Bladewire · 10-07-2003, 10:54 PM

Think you're immune to a patent lawsuite? Think again...

"The technology allowed for the embedding of small interactive programs such as "plug-ins" or "applets," into World Wide Web documents. Such programs are central today to online commerce as they power everything from banner ads to interactive customer service. "

REDMOND, Washington (AP) -- Microsoft Corp. said it will make technical adjustments to its Web browsing software as a result of an August ruling that the software giant infringed on a patent licensed by Eolas Technologies Inc.

Microsoft, which is appealing the ruling and the $520 million federal jury award to Eolas, said Monday the changes will be built into new shipments of Internet Explorer -- which comes with the Windows operating system -- starting next year.

FULL STORY

FIGHTTHEPATENT.COM

zzgundamnzz · 10-07-2003, 10:58 PM

is there a patent to everything these days!

Nas7782 · 10-07-2003, 10:59 PM

These kinds of lawsuits are gettin out of hand. A company WAITS for their patent to get popular, then entraps other companies who uses it. A powerful company such as microsoft and other electronic giant is going to lobby Washington to change this law. Then all the little guys that truly need patent protection will be left in the dust.

Bladewire · 10-07-2003, 11:01 PM

" is there a patent to everything these days! "

Seems like it doesn't it?

I think it's interesting that the patent relates to plugin technology... like VIDEO plugins maybe?

Wouldn't it make sense that Eolas has a patent for video on the internet instead of Acacia? How many companies are going to come forward and claim the right to charge us for using video? Where does it end????

iroc409 · 10-07-2003, 11:03 PM

plugins and applets are patented? that's almost as silly as acacia's patent. damn.

Bladewire · 10-07-2003, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nas7782
These kinds of lawsuits are gettin out of hand. A company WAITS for their patent to get popular, then entraps other companies who uses it. A powerful company such as microsoft and other electronic giant is going to lobby Washington to change this law. Then all the little guys that truly need patent protection will be left in the dust.

It doesn't seem fair does it?

It's like breaking the law without nowing the law existed.

People would play by the rules if they knew them. ( most anyway )

What is a company supposed to do before opening the doors.. search the thousands upon thousands of patents to make sure they are not infringing??

iroc409 · 10-07-2003, 11:05 PM

i assume this partly has to do with java and java script. wouldn't that have come up during the whole msft/sun debacle?

Bladewire · 10-07-2003, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by iroc409
plugins and applets are patented? that's almost as silly as acacia's patent. damn.

I'm sure their patent reads something like " In the not to distant future mankind will be able to watch movies on their computers from a far distance " or some shitt like that

sexeducation · 10-07-2003, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zzgundamnzz
is there a patent to everything these days!

I'm sorry but your sentence was a trademark infringement.
That is a slogan I now own.

iroc409 · 10-07-2003, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Squirtit

I'm sure their patent reads something like " In the not to distant future mankind will be able to watch movies on their computers from a far distance " or some shitt like that

i'm going to patent bottled air.

watch out scuba divers and space crusaders, i've got your number!

and in the future, all that dirty air. damn!

myneid · 10-07-2003, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zzgundamnzz
is there a patent to everything these days!

i think its just that like 5-7 years ago a series of very generic patents were allowed because of people not really knowing anything about technology. and so these broad patents are being now bought out by large companies who are suing people against a generic concept. its like a patent for a link that has another link on it, so they sue all chain manufacturers.

iroc409 · 10-07-2003, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by myneid

i think its just that like 5-7 years ago a series of very generic patents were allowed because of people not really knowing anything about technology. and so these broad patents are being now bought out by large companies who are suing people against a generic concept. its like a patent for a link that has another link on it, so they sue all chain manufacturers.

lol, that's pretty much it.

on a side note, anybody remember when the DOJ or whatever went after microsoft for copyrighting 'windows'? they tried to take the name away, but apparently failed.

sexeducation · 10-07-2003, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by myneid

i think its just that like 5-7 years ago a series of very generic patents were allowed because of people not really knowing anything about technology.

I AGREE ...

haven't even read the rest of your post or the others that I saw ...
I already agree.

Quote:

and so these broad patents are being now bought out by large companies who are suing people against a generic concept. its like a patent for a link that has another link on it, so they sue all chain manufacturers. [/B]

JDog · 10-07-2003, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zzgundamnzz
is there a patent to everything these days!

Yes, anything you would like to patent, just consider it already done.

jDoG

brizzad · 10-07-2003, 11:21 PM

i got a patent on deez nuts

sexeducation · 10-07-2003, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JDog

Yes, anything you would like to patent, just consider it already done.

jDoG

It seems that way ...
ACACIA seems to have invented "time compression"?

no no - let me be exact ...
"time travel" ?

their patent claims
"less then real time"

Who the fuck knew that Acacia was smarter then Einstein? roflmao

lEricPl · 10-07-2003, 11:34 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/interne....ap/index.html

Quote:

The technology allowed for the embedding of small interactive programs such as "plug-ins" or "applets," into World Wide Web documents. Such programs are central today to online commerce as they power everything from banner ads to interactive customer service.

Quote:

However, Microsoft also on Monday released suggestions for how Web site authors can update their sites and avoid infringing on the Eolas patent so that users don't have to see the extra prompt, he said. Other companies, including RealNetworks Inc. and Apple Computer Inc., are similarly advising their developers on how to avoid infringing on the Eolas patent.

berg.the.red · 10-07-2003, 11:55 PM

this case also handed micro$erf one of the biggest "victories" they could have ever gotten. now they "legally" don't have to support any kind of plug-in technology. windows media player doesn't infringe on this patent. it is however bad news for macromedia, and all the rest of the companies who rely on browser plug-ins. and micro$erf is steaming right along with the "must not infringe on patent" line. must remove offending code. if it breaks the internet and/or people have to re-code most of the web pages on the internet and their own intranets --so be it. Eolas ( basically a one man operation ) is already back-pedaling saying THEY'RE not to blame for all this and all micro$erf has to do is pay them a licensing fee ...

that line sounds familair doesn't it ??

lEricPl · 10-07-2003, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by berg.the.red
this case also handed micro$erf one of the biggest "victories" they could have ever gotten. now they "legally" don't have to support any kind of plug-in technology. windows media player doesn't infringe on this patent. it is however bad news for macromedia, and all the rest of the companies who rely on browser plug-ins. and micro$erf is steaming right along with the "must not infringe on patent" line. must remove offending code. if it breaks the internet and/or people have to re-code most of the web pages on the internet and their own intranets --so be it. Eolas ( basically a one man operation ) is already back-pedaling saying THEY'RE not to blame for all this and all micro$erf has to do is pay them a licensing fee ...

that line sounds familair doesn't it ??

Read my above post before you let everyone know how paranoid you really are.

"However, Microsoft also on Monday released suggestions for how Web site authors can update their sites and avoid infringing on the Eolas patent so that users don't have to see the extra prompt, he said. Other companies, including RealNetworks Inc. and Apple Computer Inc., are similarly advising their developers on how to avoid infringing on the Eolas patent. "

Sausage · 10-08-2003, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by berg.the.red
this case also handed micro$erf one of the biggest "victories" they could have ever gotten. now they "legally" don't have to support any kind of plug-in technology. windows media player doesn't infringe on this patent. it is however bad news for macromedia, and all the rest of the companies who rely on browser plug-ins. and micro$erf is steaming right along with the "must not infringe on patent" line. must remove offending code. if it breaks the internet and/or people have to re-code most of the web pages on the internet and their own intranets --so be it. Eolas ( basically a one man operation ) is already back-pedaling saying THEY'RE not to blame for all this and all micro$erf has to do is pay them a licensing fee ...

that line sounds familair doesn't it ??

Very good points that I never considered. good post.

lEricPl · 10-08-2003, 12:09 AM

God you guys are paranoid

http://msdn.microsoft.com/ieupdate/

Read all about it already.

Quote:

This section describes changes to Internet Explorer's handling of ActiveX controls and Java applets. Developers who build ActiveX controls, Web developers who use ActiveX and Java Applets on their Web sites, and developers who host the Web Browser OC or MSHTML should consult this documentation to understand how the user experience is changing, and also how to modify their pages to manage the user experience for their content.

prostock · 10-08-2003, 12:29 AM

does this mena i can start putting patents on many girls ass i know , gee i was the first to fuck them there ?

Nathan · 10-08-2003, 01:12 AM

Does anyone here even know the Patent this is all about?

The Patent number on MS's page is wrong.

berg.the.red · 10-09-2003, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lEricPl
God you guys are paranoid

http://msdn.microsoft.com/ieupdate/

Read all about it already.

not exactly MY paranoia ... One Persons take and Somebody Else's ...

The Truth Hurts · 10-09-2003, 01:54 AM

"Never in Bill Gates' or Steve Ballmer's wildest dreams could Microsoft have hatched such a dastardly plan where a tiny company successfully sues for patent infringement and, as a result, Microsoft has to turn off access to its competitors' technologies for almost every user of the Web"

even when gates loses, he wins.
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

lEricPl · 10-09-2003, 02:14 AM

1. Microsoft, Macromedia, Apple, Real etc. clearly state they will show developers how to change the code. (Follow the links to each site and see)

2. WM Player does not compete with Flash.

3. There is no patent # on this page. http://msdn.microsoft.com/ieupdate/

4. Macromedia has already shown there will be no problem in the future. http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/activecontent/

"In the future version of Internet Explorer, currently due out early next year, the browser prompts visitors to confirm that they want to execute each active content item on a page. However, there are several straightforward ways to update your web pages so that the prompt no longer appears. "

5. You're paranoid

berg.the.red · 10-09-2003, 04:26 PM

hey ... o.k. --we're all fucking paranoid. your the only one with a firm grasp on reality. everything you posted is the gospel. nothing at all is going to change.

but wasn't this thread about "patents" and the bullshit going along with them ??

Bladewire · 10-09-2003, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Truth Hurts
"Never in Bill Gates' or Steve Ballmer's wildest dreams could Microsoft have hatched such a dastardly plan where a tiny company successfully sues for patent infringement and, as a result, Microsoft has to turn off access to its competitors' technologies for almost every user of the Web"

even when gates loses, he wins.
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Crazy isn't it? He wins and loses.. I wonder which one made him more money !

Bladewire · 10-09-2003, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by berg.the.red
hey ... o.k. --we're all fucking paranoid. your the only one with a firm grasp on reality. everything you posted is the gospel. nothing at all is going to change.

but wasn't this thread about "patents" and the bullshit going along with them ??

Crazy how some poeple just don't think they're going to be effected until they get a knock at the door from a process server!

Being proactive to these threats makes us stronger in the adult community.

I can see a day when we have the strenght to lobby congress against these kinds of patent abuses, credit card reform, etc.

It all starts with us as individuals.. nobody is going to do this for us.

InsaneGreen · 10-09-2003, 04:55 PM

bumped cuz i read the whole thread and usually dont.

berg.the.red · 10-09-2003, 05:01 PM

well ... how about some more to read.

coverage from Zeldman.Com and read the Eolas: first fallout section. then follow the link to sidesh0w.com and read their take on what has to be changed and the manner it's changed.

the pop-up window idea sounds elegant ... oh wait ... there's another thread here on GFY mentioning some compnay has patented pop-ups now.

Cyborg69 · 10-09-2003, 05:51 PM

this is bs
just saw another thread about patent on exit popups....
I patent the idea to give birht or for having sex everyone in the world own me money now wtf

Bladewire · 10-09-2003, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cyborg69
this is bs
just saw another thread about patent on exit popups....
I patent the idea to give birht or for having sex everyone in the world own me money now wtf

This is the reality of the adult industry today

Scootermuze · 10-09-2003, 06:13 PM

There's a simple bottom line to all of this... Be it this company, Acacia, or anyone else...

It's all about money..

They can put all of the bullshit fancy dancy terms and bells and whistles in the documents they wat to, but it's all the same goal..

Money...

"You're using this, so we want money." ..
"You need a license, so pay us money."

"We're gonna take a chance and hope it works so we can make money off of you."

Libertine · 10-09-2003, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lEricPl
...

I am starting to suspect you secretly get paid by m$ to endorse them in the adult webmaster community

BlackCrayon · 10-09-2003, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Squirtit

This is the reality of the adult industry today

its bullshit, these companies go to shit due to bad business decisions or whatever and then find legal ways to scam ppl out of money so they don't go under. either something is done about all this patent bullshit or i fear the end is near.

FightThisPatent · 10-09-2003, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Squirtit
[B
Wouldn't it make sense that Eolas has a patent for video on the internet instead of Acacia? How many companies are going to come forward and claim the right to charge us for using video? Where does it end???? [/B]

The one guy that works at Eolas has a portfolio of patents... so it won't be surprising when he fires off another zinger of a patent infringement case...

Alot of the open-source guys are on M$ side on this issue since this patent affects so many... but the pity party ends quickly since M$ has a string of patents itself, like the one that was just granted this week that when you are typing in an Instant Messenger, it sends a message back to the other person to say they are typing something... ICQ has this feature.. but M$ may have them beat on the filing date.

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-09-2003, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by iroc409

i'm going to patent bottled air.

sure, but the easy way around your patent is to just put the air in a metal can.

FightThisPatent · 10-09-2003, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nathan
Does anyone here even know the Patent this is all about?

The Patent number on MS's page is wrong.

http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Pa...&RS=PN/5838906

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-09-2003, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

Patent #5,838,906

http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Pa...&RS=PN/5838906

Fight the Patent!

FightThisPatent · 10-09-2003, 07:56 PM

And now, a short interlude in the thread:

I started today with the beginning of an ambitious idea of forming a non-profit (501c3) orgnization called Fight The Patent Foundation.

This new organization continues the work that i started with FightThePatent.com by going further with the charter of helping to invalidate bad patents at the USPTO and in assisting defendants in litigation.

FTPF has an altruistic approach to fighting patent abuse, described better at http://www.FightThePatent.com/go

To execute on the vision of FTPF, i have started a fund raising Pledge Drive. Looking to raise $250,000 by webmasters banding together and donating $100. As you can see by the pledged total below, your fellow webmasters are supporting this effort. You can also see there is along way to go, but then again, it's only been 1 day.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread....

Fight the Patent!

Bladewire · 10-09-2003, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FightThisPatent
And now, a short interlude in the thread:

I started today with the beginning of an ambitious idea of forming a non-profit (501c3) orgnization called Fight The Patent Foundation.

This new organization continues the work that i started with FightThePatent.com by going further with the charter of helping to invalidate bad patents at the USPTO and in assisting defendants in litigation.

FTPF has an altruistic approach to fighting patent abuse, described better at http://www.FightThePatent.com/go

To execute on the vision of FTPF, i have started a fund raising Pledge Drive. Looking to raise $250,000 by webmasters banding together and donating $100. As you can see by the pledged total below, your fellow webmasters are supporting this effort. You can also see there is along way to go, but then again, it's only been 1 day.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread....

Fight the Patent!

Bladewire · 10-09-2003, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BlackCrayon

its bullshit, these companies go to shit due to bad business decisions or whatever and then find legal ways to scam ppl out of money so they don't go under. either something is done about all this patent bullshit or i fear the end is near.

Welcome to the world of big business. Bottom feeders everywhere just trying to make a buck.

10-07-2003, 10:54 PM	#1
Bladewire StraightBro Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Monarch Beach, CA USA Posts: 56,229	Due to patent infringement Microsoft is changing IE... Think you're immune to a patent lawsuite? Think again... "The technology allowed for the embedding of small interactive programs such as "plug-ins" or "applets," into World Wide Web documents. Such programs are central today to online commerce as they power everything from banner ads to interactive customer service. " REDMOND, Washington (AP) -- Microsoft Corp. said it will make technical adjustments to its Web browsing software as a result of an August ruling that the software giant infringed on a patent licensed by Eolas Technologies Inc. Microsoft, which is appealing the ruling and the $520 million federal jury award to Eolas, said Monday the changes will be built into new shipments of Internet Explorer -- which comes with the Windows operating system -- starting next year. FULL STORY FIGHTTHEPATENT.COM

10-07-2003, 10:58 PM	#2
zzgundamnzz Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,102	is there a patent to everything these days! __________________

10-07-2003, 11:05 PM	#7
iroc409 Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: midwest side, yo Posts: 4,728	i assume this partly has to do with java and java script. wouldn't that have come up during the whole msft/sun debacle? __________________ <a href="http://www.iroc409.com/"><img src="http://www.iroc409.com/adv/120x60.gif" border=0></a> icq: 1 7 6 4 2 0 9 6 0 Gallery templates for ONLY $25! w00t!

10-07-2003, 11:55 PM	#18
berg.the.red Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Right Here. Right Now. Posts: 596	this case also handed micro$erf one of the biggest "victories" they could have ever gotten. now they "legally" don't have to support any kind of plug-in technology. windows media player doesn't infringe on this patent. it is however bad news for macromedia, and all the rest of the companies who rely on browser plug-ins. and micro$erf is steaming right along with the "must not infringe on patent" line. must remove offending code. if it breaks the internet and/or people have to re-code most of the web pages on the internet and their own intranets --so be it. Eolas ( basically a one man operation ) is already back-pedaling saying THEY'RE not to blame for all this and all micro$erf has to do is pay them a licensing fee ... that line sounds familair doesn't it ?? __________________ Need a Dedicated Box with BALLS ? How about a Dedicated Server starting at just $49 per month.

10-08-2003, 12:29 AM	#22
prostock On probation Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: not telling you , the exwife might find me Posts: 4,160	does this mena i can start putting patents on many girls ass i know , gee i was the first to fuck them there ? __________________ ICQ # :158519717

10-07-2003, 10:59 PM	#3
Nas7782 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: .US Posts: 493	These kinds of lawsuits are gettin out of hand. A company WAITS for their patent to get popular, then entraps other companies who uses it. A powerful company such as microsoft and other electronic giant is going to lobby Washington to change this law. Then all the little guys that truly need patent protection will be left in the dust.

10-07-2003, 11:01 PM	#4
Bladewire StraightBro Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Monarch Beach, CA USA Posts: 56,229	" is there a patent to everything these days! " Seems like it doesn't it? I think it's interesting that the patent relates to plugin technology... like VIDEO plugins maybe? Wouldn't it make sense that Eolas has a patent for video on the internet instead of Acacia? How many companies are going to come forward and claim the right to charge us for using video? Where does it end????

10-07-2003, 11:03 PM	#5
iroc409 Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: midwest side, yo Posts: 4,728	plugins and applets are patented? that's almost as silly as acacia's patent. damn. __________________ <a href="http://www.iroc409.com/"><img src="http://www.iroc409.com/adv/120x60.gif" border=0></a> icq: 1 7 6 4 2 0 9 6 0 Gallery templates for ONLY $25! w00t!

10-07-2003, 11:21 PM	#15
brizzad holla Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: KFC Posts: 11,769	i got a patent on deez nuts

10-08-2003, 01:12 AM	#23
Nathan Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,108	Does anyone here even know the Patent this is all about? The Patent number on MS's page is wrong. __________________ "Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right." - Charlie Munger

10-09-2003, 01:54 AM	#25
The Truth Hurts Zph7YXfjMhg Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In Your Skull Posts: 15,295	"Never in Bill Gates' or Steve Ballmer's wildest dreams could Microsoft have hatched such a dastardly plan where a tiny company successfully sues for patent infringement and, as a result, Microsoft has to turn off access to its competitors' technologies for almost every user of the Web" even when gates loses, he wins. Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

10-09-2003, 02:14 AM	#26
lEricPl Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: FL Posts: 1,062	1. Microsoft, Macromedia, Apple, Real etc. clearly state they will show developers how to change the code. (Follow the links to each site and see) 2. WM Player does not compete with Flash. 3. There is no patent # on this page. http://msdn.microsoft.com/ieupdate/ 4. Macromedia has already shown there will be no problem in the future. http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/activecontent/ "In the future version of Internet Explorer, currently due out early next year, the browser prompts visitors to confirm that they want to execute each active content item on a page. However, there are several straightforward ways to update your web pages so that the prompt no longer appears. " 5. You're paranoid Last edited by lEricPl; 10-09-2003 at 02:22 AM..

10-09-2003, 04:26 PM	#27
berg.the.red Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Right Here. Right Now. Posts: 596	hey ... o.k. --we're all fucking paranoid. your the only one with a firm grasp on reality. everything you posted is the gospel. nothing at all is going to change. but wasn't this thread about "patents" and the bullshit going along with them ?? __________________ Need a Dedicated Box with BALLS ? How about a Dedicated Server starting at just $49 per month.

10-09-2003, 04:55 PM	#30
InsaneGreen Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: southern california Posts: 996	bumped cuz i read the whole thread and usually dont. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

10-09-2003, 05:01 PM	#31
berg.the.red Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Right Here. Right Now. Posts: 596	well ... how about some more to read. coverage from Zeldman.Com and read the Eolas: first fallout section. then follow the link to sidesh0w.com and read their take on what has to be changed and the manner it's changed. the pop-up window idea sounds elegant ... oh wait ... there's another thread here on GFY mentioning some compnay has patented pop-ups now. __________________ Need a Dedicated Box with BALLS ? How about a Dedicated Server starting at just $49 per month.

10-09-2003, 05:51 PM	#32
Cyborg69 So Fucking Banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Canada T.O. Posts: 932	this is bs just saw another thread about patent on exit popups.... I patent the idea to give birht or for having sex everyone in the world own me money now wtf

10-09-2003, 06:13 PM	#34
Scootermuze Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,513	There's a simple bottom line to all of this... Be it this company, Acacia, or anyone else... It's all about money.. They can put all of the bullshit fancy dancy terms and bells and whistles in the documents they wat to, but it's all the same goal.. Money... "You're using this, so we want money." .. "You need a license, so pay us money." "We're gonna take a chance and hope it works so we can make money off of you."

10-09-2003, 07:56 PM	#41
FightThisPatent Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 4,090	And now, a short interlude in the thread: I started today with the beginning of an ambitious idea of forming a non-profit (501c3) orgnization called Fight The Patent Foundation. This new organization continues the work that i started with FightThePatent.com by going further with the charter of helping to invalidate bad patents at the USPTO and in assisting defendants in litigation. FTPF has an altruistic approach to fighting patent abuse, described better at http://www.FightThePatent.com/go To execute on the vision of FTPF, i have started a fund raising Pledge Drive. Looking to raise $250,000 by webmasters banding together and donating $100. As you can see by the pledged total below, your fellow webmasters are supporting this effort. You can also see there is along way to go, but then again, it's only been 1 day. Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.... Fight the Patent! __________________ http://www.t3report.com (where's the traffic?) v5.0 is out! \| http://www.FightThePatent.com \| ICQ 52741957