70 protesters killed, 500 wounded in kiev

[brassmonkey]

KIEV, Ukraine (AP) ? Protesters tossed firebombs and advanced upon police lines Thursday in Ukraine's embattled capital. Government snipers shot back, killing at least 70 people and wounding hundreds of others, according to a protest doctor.

Video footage on Ukrainian television showed shocking scenes Thursday of protesters being cut down by gunfire, lying on the pavement as comrades rushed to their aid. Trying to protect themselves with shields, teams of protesters carried bodies away on sheets of plastic or planks of wood.

"The price of freedom is too high but Ukrainians are paying it," said Viktor Danilyuk, a 30-year-old protester. "We have no choice, the government isn't hearing us." Protesters were also seen leading policemen with their hands held high around the sprawling protest camp in central Kiev. Ukraine's Interior ministry says 67 police were captured in all. An opposition lawmaker said they were being held in Kiev's occupied city hall.

President Viktor Yanukovych and the opposition protesters who are demanding his resignation are locked in an epic battle over the identity of Ukraine, a nation of 46 million that has divided loyalties between Russia and the West. Parts of the country ? mostly in its western cities ? are in open revolt against Yanukovych's central government, while many in eastern Ukraine back the president and favor strong ties with Russia, their former Soviet ruler.

full article...

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

KIEV, Ukraine (AP) ? Protesters tossed firebombs and advanced upon police lines

what would you do if someone was fire bombing you?

[Just Alex]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

what would you do if someone was fire bombing you?

Cry racism. What else would he do?

B-monkey, why the fuck do you care? There weren't any blacks there anyway.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

what would you do if someone was fire bombing you?

wait till the government said deadly force is cleared. that's a lot of killing

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

wait till the government said deadly force is cleared. that's a lot of killing

that's apparently what has happened today.. authorized for live fire

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

what would you do if someone was fire bombing you?

which side are you on in this ordeal?


cool sig btw

"Surely there comes a time when counting the cost and paying the price aren't things to think about any more. All that matters is value - the ultimate value of what one does." -James Hilton

[notinmybackyard]

You know if I was into conspiracy theories....

This new "purchase" by Facebook of Whatsapp seems to be the United States trying to derail the Ukranian Revoltion with social media the same way they did the Egyptian one.

Just saying that considering that Jan Koum is an immigrant from the Ukraine and that Whatsapp is NOT very popular within countries like the United States, Canada or most of western europe.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

what would you do if someone was fire bombing you?

It's been back and forth on the violence, there is footage on youtube of police shooting sniper rifles and Ak 47s.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

which side are you on in this ordeal?


cool sig btw

"Surely there comes a time when counting the cost and paying the price aren't things to think about any more. All that matters is value - the ultimate value of what one does." -James Hilton

I'm not on the side of running at a large group of armed men and snipers with firebombs

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by crockett

It's been back and forth on the violence, there is footage on youtube of police shooting sniper rifles and Ak 47s.

pretty sure it's tribalism that we aren't seeing that YOU GUYS assume is the PEOPLE against the MAN.. you're fucked up somewhere in your head..

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

wait till the government said deadly force is cleared. that's a lot of killing

if I had a gun and some nutjob ran at me, trying to light me on fire, I would shoot that cocksucker for sure... you?

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

if I had a gun and some nutjob ran at me, trying to light me on fire, I would that cocksucker for sure... you?

yeah id be in jail already fire bomb big ass rock pow! that fuckers on the news.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

pretty sure it's tribalism that we aren't seeing that YOU GUYS assume is the PEOPLE against the MAN.. you're fucked up somewhere in your head..

Umm. Wtf are you talking about Willis? I just said the violence has come from both sides.. Here is the video of the cops shooting with both a sniper rifle and AK47s.

http://www.radiosvoboda.org/media/video/25270710.html

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by crockett

Umm. Wtf are you talking about Willis? I just said the violence has come from both sides.. Here is the video of the cops shooting with both a sniper rifle and AK47s.

http://www.radiosvoboda.org/media/video/25270710.html

this is some deep rooted 'tribal' anger... one tribe got the money and the other didn't

[CAHEK]

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by CAHEK

NWO in action?

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

this is some deep rooted 'tribal' anger... one tribe got the money and the other didn't

It's simple one half of the country likes Russia the other half wants to be free of Russia. It dates back to WW2 where the country was divided in its support to the Germans and the Soviets. They still hate each other.. They just need to split the country in two and be done with it.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by crockett

It's simple one half of the country likes Russia the other half wants to be free of Russia. It dates back to WW2 where the country was divided in its support to the Germans and the Soviets. They still hate each other.. They just need to split the country in two and be done with it.

because they are...... here it comes... you ready???? steady now...... different 'tribes'

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

70 protesters killed, 500 wounded in kiev

How many policemen were killed? Or nobody cares about the?

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by crockett

It's been back and forth on the violence, there is footage on youtube of police shooting sniper rifles and Ak 47s.

If you were a policeman being shot by "peaceful protesters", wouldn't you shoot back?













A "peaceful" sniper:





Captured police:

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

How many policemen were killed? Or nobody cares about the?

you take off the uniform and blend in

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

How many policemen were killed? Or nobody cares about the?

seven, i believe the number is

[klinton]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

because they are...... here it comes... you ready???? steady now...... different 'tribes'

exactly..kind of... the other question is: who will profit from such divided country/ nation....

[adultchatpay]

So much unrest everywhere.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by CAHEK

Freedom and democracy prevail

[klinton]

Originally Posted by adultchatpay

So much unrest everywhere.

especially in media ;-) dont know about u but my area is calm ;-)

[seeandsee]

So only Ukranian police killing their people because nobody trowing Molotov cocktails and shooting on them? Based on media coverage...

Just saying both sides are killing...

[just a punk]

Yes it is, both sides kill, but CNN/Fox/BBC propaganda has never been objective

[GregE]

Originally Posted by klinton

exactly..kind of... the other question is: who will profit from such divided country/ nation....

Theoretically everybody. The Western Ukraine gets the government and trading partners it wants and in the East the people get what they want. Putin would retain his influence over at least half of the country and the EU would get another proposed member in the form of the Western half.

Of course, the reality of such an arrangement would undoubtedly be far messier. Most likely, every bit as messy as the present.

[klinton]

Originally Posted by GregE

Theoretically everybody. The Western Ukraine gets the government and trading partners it wants and in the East the people get what they want. Putin would retain his influence over at least half of the country and the EU would get another proposed member in the form of the Western half.

Of course, the reality of such an arrangement would undoubtedly be far messier. Most likely, every bit as messy as the present.

actually, my question was rhetorical...something like fuel for conspiracy theories, and you answered it from optimistic point of view ;-)
I was expecting answer like: Russia, because... , Germany because,,, Poland because, corporations because.... etc. etc.

[dyna mo]

The protests sweeping across Ukraine began last November when the government ditched a promised trade and political deal with the European Union in favor of closer ties with its old Soviet master.

Critics say Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych chose his allegiances under considerable pressure from Russia.


EU officials have accused Moscow of threatening to impose trade restrictions and holding a $15 billion bailout over Yanukovych in order to make him walk away from the deal, which was seen as a possible precursor to eventual EU membership.


Russia's reasons for exerting pressure on its smaller neighbor are deeply rooted in economics, history and culture.

Here are just a few:

1. Russia has designs on Ukraine?s natural gas pipelines

Gas has long been an explosive issue between Russia and Ukraine. Moscow is a key supplier of gas to the European Union, accounting for about a third of the region?s imports, about half of which flows through Ukrainian pipes.

Ukraine is also a major market for Russian gas, and arguments over how much it should pay have prompted Russia to turn off the taps, disrupting supplies to the rest of Europe.

Closer ties between the two countries would in theory at least give Russia more secure access to the former Soviet satellite's pipeline network and the European market.

2. Russia considers Ukraine a 'mini me'

Back in the days of the Russian Empire, the term ?Little Russia? was commonly used for parts of modern-day Ukraine then under control of the Russian tsars.

Fast-forward nearly 100 years, and Russian President Vladimir Putin is still using the diminutive name. In 2009, Putin referred to Ukraine as ?Little Russia? when quoting from the diaries of Anton Denikin, a commander for the White Army which fought against the Bolsheviks, suggesting Moscow?s attitude toward its neighbor was little changed.

"Ukraine" is derived from ?at the edge? ? in relation to Russia, of course ? underlining Moscow?s view that Ukraine is no more than a vassalage.

3. Without Ukraine, there is no Eurasian Union

Putin once described the collapse of the Soviet Union as the ?greatest geopolitical catastrophe" of the 20th century. That helps explain his drive to establish a Eurasian Union: A powerful economic and political bloc made up of like-minded former Soviet states with Russia at the center once again.

Ukraine is considered a key part of the plan because of its size, historical links with Russia and its position on the EU's frontier.

Earlier this month, the Ukrainian parliament approved a program to develop trade and economic relations with members of a customs union that includes Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan, although whether it joins the group ? seen as a precursor to the Eurasian Union ? remains to be seen.

4. Russia believes Russian and Ukrainian history is inextricably linked

From the Russian point of view, Russia and Ukraine share deep historical and cultural roots. Kyiv, the capital of modern-day Ukraine, is considered the birthplace of orthodox Christianity and Russian civilization.

Kyiv was the center of a powerful civilization called Kievan Rus, a medieval federation of eastern Slavic tribes established in the 9th century, which preceded the nation states of Russia and Ukraine.

5. Russia considers Ukraine within its sphere of influence

The struggle between Russia and Britain for supremacy in Central Asia in the 19th century, known as the Great Game, provides some insight into Moscow?s attitude toward Ukraine in the 21st century.

Russia still views regional influence as a so-called zero-sum game, hence its determination to keep Ukraine within what Prime Minister Dmitri Medvedev has called Moscow's sphere of "privileged interests" ? and out of the European Union?s.

6. Lots of Ukrainians still speak Russian

The divisions in Ukraine are as much political as they are linguistic. Ukrainian is the official language and is widely spoken in the north and west of the country, where most of the pro-European protesters hail from.

Russian is the native language for about a third of the population, mainly in the southern and eastern parts of the country, where a significant number of ethnic Russians live. They tend to be more sympathetic to policies aimed at bringing Ukraine and Russia closer together.


Part of the reason for the seeming intractability of Ukraine's crisis is that the country is split not only in its population, but also geography. The Dnepr River cuts it roughly in half between the western-looking parts of the country that fell under Russian domination only during World War II ? and retain influences from the Austro-Hungarian Empire the once controlled them ? and the eastern-looking parts that spent centuries under tsarist control.

7. Russia feels threatened by revolutions

Russia would like to see the current protests in the Ukraine brought to an end before disaffected Russians get ideas about taking to the streets. Given the region?s history of ?color revolutions? over the past decade, it?s easy to understand why.

In November 2003, Georgia?s Rose Revolution led to the ouster of President Eduard Shevardnadze, who had ruled the former Soviet republic for 30 years. The following year, Ukraine's Orange Revolution reversed the results of a presidential election Yanukovych won.

In early 2005, protesters took to the streets in Kyrgyzstan in what became known as the Tulip Revolution, overthrowing President Askar Akayev and his government.

The Kremlin has accused western countries of backing the revolutions and threatening do the same in Russia in order to steal its vast energy rescources.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/n...-all-to-itself

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by klinton

exactly..kind of... the other question is: who will profit from such divided country/ nation....

the people that will profit are the rabble rousers driving the violence

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

Russia has designs on Ukraine?s natural gas pipelines

here ya go... I demystified the whole damn murderous mess for you

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

here ya go... I demystified the whole damn murderous mess for you

No, you went on about "tribes", i'm the one that posted what you quoted.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by adultchatpay

So much unrest everywhere.

something is going on something huge

[crockett]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

If you were a policeman being shot by "peaceful protesters", wouldn't you shoot back?













A "peaceful" sniper:





Captured police:

Ummm let's tally the death counts.. It was 70 killed 500 injured just yesterday. 15 or so the day before killed and one or two here or there and who knows how many injured.

That's near 100 people whom have been killed by the cops and well over 500 injured. Let's also not forget the protest while maybe were not rainbows and trumpets were not violent until the police turned to water canons and started beating people. Not to mention many people disappearing in the start of all this.

After two months of this, now protestors are starting to fight back with violence and you act as if they are the ones that started using deadly force..

Let's rephrase your question.. If you were protesting your govt's action and the govt turned to violent force which included killing protesters.. Should you not shoot back?

[crockett]

Originally Posted by seeandsee

So only Ukranian police killing their people because nobody trowing Molotov cocktails and shooting on them? Based on media coverage...

Just saying both sides are killing...

Of course both sides are killing now, but the govt's side has a pretty good head start well before the protestors starting shooting back.

Also who is throwing Molotov cocktails?





Yea the govt cops are just as guilty of doing that as the protestors are...

[seeandsee]

Originally Posted by crockett

Of course both sides are killing now, but the govt's side has a pretty good head start well before the protestors starting shooting back.

Also who is throwing Molotov cocktails?





Yea the govt cops are just as guilty of doing that as the protestors are...

Come on, i can't search now for vids with cocktails trowed on police, and other shit. So only police is evil and protestors were peaceful?

I say both sides did this bloody shit.

[Paul&John]

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-...l-all-be-dead/

btw it seems like it's over..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26289318
Ukrainian president and opposition sign early poll deal

[CAHEK]

Originally Posted by crockett

It's been back and forth on the violence, there is footage on youtube of police shooting sniper rifles and Ak 47s.

In my country if you about to pull pocket knife from the pocket you will get shoot 15 times

[just a punk]

2crockett: This is how it works in the USA (no Molotov cocktails, no guns, no burning officers, no broken heads, embossed eyes etc, just a lonely guy with a crowbar against two cops and their trained dog):

[RyuLion]

Damn, these threads are crazy!!

[klinton]

anyway, its very funny when i hear Obama about spreading democracy etc etc... talking shit to Yanukovicz and Russia...How the USA would fell if Russia would start talking about military intervention in Mexico, due to some riots going on there ? How the US would feel if Russia would support one of Mexico's political parties ? You got perfect example on that in Cuba...it was over 50 years ago, and not so much changed from that time....people get fucked from USA sanctions...and now they are surprised that Putin dont want to "borrow" money to Ukraine anymore...

it is internal issue of Ukraine now, and I hope all will be resolved...unless it is not too late

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

No, you went on about "tribes", i'm the one that posted what you quoted.

one tribe has the money, the other doesn't... tribes aren't an issue? ever hear of the Middle East, Asia, India, Pakistan etc... the only reason the 'west' functions at the high level it does is because there is a level of 'societal trust' not present in 'tribes' that function on 'familial trust' but don't worry, the libs are breaking their asses to fill the west with tribal factions that refuse to get along with anyone else...

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

2crockett: This is how it works in the USA (no Molotov cocktails, no guns, no burning officers, no broken heads, embossed eyes etc, just a lonely guy with a crowbar against two cops and their trained dog):

Originally Posted by klinton

anyway, its very funny when i hear Obama about spreading democracy etc etc... talking shit to Yanukovicz and Russia...How the USA would fell if Russia would start talking about military intervention in Mexico, due to some riots going on there ? How the US would feel if Russia would support one of Mexico's political parties ? You got perfect example on that in Cuba...it was over 50 years ago, and not so much changed from that time....people get fucked from USA sanctions...and now they are surprised that Putin dont want to "borrow" money to Ukraine anymore...

it is internal issue of Ukraine now, and I hope all will be resolved...unless it is not too late

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

one tribe has the money, the other doesn't... tribes aren't an issue? ever hear of the Middle East, Asia, India, Pakistan etc... the only reason the 'west' functions at the high level it does is because there is a level of 'societal trust' not present in 'tribes' that function on 'familial trust' but don't worry, the libs are breaking their asses to fill the west with tribal factions that refuse to get along with anyone else...

I have no idea what you are going on about. You don't either.

[klinton]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

but don't worry, the libs are breaking their asses to fill the west with tribal factions that refuse to get along with anyone else...

care to explain it a little more ? ;-)

[Sid70]

Originally Posted by cyberseo

yes it is, both sides kill, but cnn/fox/bbc propaganda has never been objective

fuck you.

Suck a dick, russian.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

Idiot. Once again: these are just civilian clowns what have no relation to police nor to Putin. They were arrested and fined for that.

Now compare it with the video I posted above where a US cop shoots dead (note he continued firing at a laying body) just for an intention to use a crowbar. How could you blame Ukrainian police for using weapon against armed motherfuckers?

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Idiot. Once again: these are just civilian clowns what has no relation to police not to Putin. They were arrested and fined for that.

Now compare it with the video I posted above where a US cop shoots dead (note he continued firing at a laying body) just for an intention to use a crowbar. How could you blame Ukrainian police for using weapon against armed motherfuckers?

Putin has taught you how to love the motherland.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Sid70

fuck you.

Suck a dick, russian.

I know that you are Russian. But you should to use a capital "R" in that word. Just a friendly hint ;)

P.S. It seems you are deadly drunk again, my dear pet.