70 protesters killed, 500 wounded in kiev

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  • dyna mo
    just a fucking jerk
    • Dec 2008
    • 68184

    #31
    The protests sweeping across Ukraine began last November when the government ditched a promised trade and political deal with the European Union in favor of closer ties with its old Soviet master.

    Critics say Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych chose his allegiances under considerable pressure from Russia.


    EU officials have accused Moscow of threatening to impose trade restrictions and holding a $15 billion bailout over Yanukovych in order to make him walk away from the deal, which was seen as a possible precursor to eventual EU membership.


    Russia's reasons for exerting pressure on its smaller neighbor are deeply rooted in economics, history and culture.

    Here are just a few:

    1. Russia has designs on Ukraine?s natural gas pipelines

    Gas has long been an explosive issue between Russia and Ukraine. Moscow is a key supplier of gas to the European Union, accounting for about a third of the region?s imports, about half of which flows through Ukrainian pipes.

    Ukraine is also a major market for Russian gas, and arguments over how much it should pay have prompted Russia to turn off the taps, disrupting supplies to the rest of Europe.

    Closer ties between the two countries would in theory at least give Russia more secure access to the former Soviet satellite's pipeline network and the European market.

    2. Russia considers Ukraine a 'mini me'

    Back in the days of the Russian Empire, the term ?Little Russia? was commonly used for parts of modern-day Ukraine then under control of the Russian tsars.

    Fast-forward nearly 100 years, and Russian President Vladimir Putin is still using the diminutive name. In 2009, Putin referred to Ukraine as ?Little Russia? when quoting from the diaries of Anton Denikin, a commander for the White Army which fought against the Bolsheviks, suggesting Moscow?s attitude toward its neighbor was little changed.

    "Ukraine" is derived from ?at the edge? ? in relation to Russia, of course ? underlining Moscow?s view that Ukraine is no more than a vassalage.

    3. Without Ukraine, there is no Eurasian Union

    Putin once described the collapse of the Soviet Union as the ?greatest geopolitical catastrophe" of the 20th century. That helps explain his drive to establish a Eurasian Union: A powerful economic and political bloc made up of like-minded former Soviet states with Russia at the center once again.

    Ukraine is considered a key part of the plan because of its size, historical links with Russia and its position on the EU's frontier.

    Earlier this month, the Ukrainian parliament approved a program to develop trade and economic relations with members of a customs union that includes Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan, although whether it joins the group ? seen as a precursor to the Eurasian Union ? remains to be seen.

    4. Russia believes Russian and Ukrainian history is inextricably linked

    From the Russian point of view, Russia and Ukraine share deep historical and cultural roots. Kyiv, the capital of modern-day Ukraine, is considered the birthplace of orthodox Christianity and Russian civilization.

    Kyiv was the center of a powerful civilization called Kievan Rus, a medieval federation of eastern Slavic tribes established in the 9th century, which preceded the nation states of Russia and Ukraine.

    5. Russia considers Ukraine within its sphere of influence

    The struggle between Russia and Britain for supremacy in Central Asia in the 19th century, known as the Great Game, provides some insight into Moscow?s attitude toward Ukraine in the 21st century.

    Russia still views regional influence as a so-called zero-sum game, hence its determination to keep Ukraine within what Prime Minister Dmitri Medvedev has called Moscow's sphere of "privileged interests" ? and out of the European Union?s.

    6. Lots of Ukrainians still speak Russian

    The divisions in Ukraine are as much political as they are linguistic. Ukrainian is the official language and is widely spoken in the north and west of the country, where most of the pro-European protesters hail from.

    Russian is the native language for about a third of the population, mainly in the southern and eastern parts of the country, where a significant number of ethnic Russians live. They tend to be more sympathetic to policies aimed at bringing Ukraine and Russia closer together.


    Part of the reason for the seeming intractability of Ukraine's crisis is that the country is split not only in its population, but also geography. The Dnepr River cuts it roughly in half between the western-looking parts of the country that fell under Russian domination only during World War II ? and retain influences from the Austro-Hungarian Empire the once controlled them ? and the eastern-looking parts that spent centuries under tsarist control.

    7. Russia feels threatened by revolutions

    Russia would like to see the current protests in the Ukraine brought to an end before disaffected Russians get ideas about taking to the streets. Given the region?s history of ?color revolutions? over the past decade, it?s easy to understand why.

    In November 2003, Georgia?s Rose Revolution led to the ouster of President Eduard Shevardnadze, who had ruled the former Soviet republic for 30 years. The following year, Ukraine's Orange Revolution reversed the results of a presidential election Yanukovych won.

    In early 2005, protesters took to the streets in Kyrgyzstan in what became known as the Tulip Revolution, overthrowing President Askar Akayev and his government.

    The Kremlin has accused western countries of backing the revolutions and threatening do the same in Russia in order to steal its vast energy rescources.

    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/n...-all-to-itself

    Comment

    • Grapesoda
      So Fucking Banned
      • Jul 2003
      • 46238

      #32
      Originally posted by klinton
      exactly..kind of... the other question is: who will profit from such divided country/ nation....
      the people that will profit are the rabble rousers driving the violence

      Comment

      • Grapesoda
        So Fucking Banned
        • Jul 2003
        • 46238

        #33
        Originally posted by dyna mo

        Russia has designs on Ukraine?s natural gas pipelines


        here ya go... I demystified the whole damn murderous mess for you

        Comment

        • dyna mo
          just a fucking jerk
          • Dec 2008
          • 68184

          #34
          Originally posted by Grapesoda
          here ya go... I demystified the whole damn murderous mess for you
          No, you went on about "tribes", i'm the one that posted what you quoted.

          Comment

          • brassmonkey
            Pay It Forward
            • Sep 2005
            • 77396

            #35
            Originally posted by adultchatpay
            So much unrest everywhere.
            something is going on something huge
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            Comment

            • crockett
              in a van by the river
              • May 2003
              • 76818

              #36
              Originally posted by CyberSEO
              If you were a policeman being shot by "peaceful protesters", wouldn't you shoot back?













              A "peaceful" sniper:





              Captured police:







              Ummm let's tally the death counts.. It was 70 killed 500 injured just yesterday. 15 or so the day before killed and one or two here or there and who knows how many injured.

              That's near 100 people whom have been killed by the cops and well over 500 injured. Let's also not forget the protest while maybe were not rainbows and trumpets were not violent until the police turned to water canons and started beating people. Not to mention many people disappearing in the start of all this.

              After two months of this, now protestors are starting to fight back with violence and you act as if they are the ones that started using deadly force..

              Let's rephrase your question.. If you were protesting your govt's action and the govt turned to violent force which included killing protesters.. Should you not shoot back?
              Last edited by crockett; 02-21-2014, 04:44 AM.
              In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

              Comment

              • crockett
                in a van by the river
                • May 2003
                • 76818

                #37
                Originally posted by seeandsee
                So only Ukranian police killing their people because nobody trowing Molotov cocktails and shooting on them? Based on media coverage...

                Just saying both sides are killing...
                Of course both sides are killing now, but the govt's side has a pretty good head start well before the protestors starting shooting back.

                Also who is throwing Molotov cocktails?





                Yea the govt cops are just as guilty of doing that as the protestors are...
                In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

                Comment

                • seeandsee
                  Check SIG!
                  • Mar 2006
                  • 50945

                  #38
                  Originally posted by crockett
                  Of course both sides are killing now, but the govt's side has a pretty good head start well before the protestors starting shooting back.

                  Also who is throwing Molotov cocktails?





                  Yea the govt cops are just as guilty of doing that as the protestors are...
                  Come on, i can't search now for vids with cocktails trowed on police, and other shit. So only police is evil and protestors were peaceful?

                  I say both sides did this bloody shit.
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                  Comment

                  • Paul&John
                    Confirmed User
                    • Aug 2005
                    • 8643

                    #39
                    http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-...l-all-be-dead/

                    btw it seems like it's over..
                    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26289318
                    Ukrainian president and opposition sign early poll deal
                    Last edited by Paul&John; 02-21-2014, 05:41 AM.
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                    Comment

                    • CAHEK
                      C.C.C.P.
                      • Aug 2003
                      • 7413

                      #40
                      Originally posted by crockett
                      It's been back and forth on the violence, there is footage on youtube of police shooting sniper rifles and Ak 47s.
                      In my country if you about to pull pocket knife from the pocket you will get shoot 15 times
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                      Comment

                      • just a punk
                        So fuckin' bored
                        • Jun 2003
                        • 32393

                        #41
                        2crockett: This is how it works in the USA (no Molotov cocktails, no guns, no burning officers, no broken heads, embossed eyes etc, just a lonely guy with a crowbar against two cops and their trained dog):

                        Last edited by just a punk; 02-21-2014, 07:36 AM.
                        Obey the Cowgod

                        Comment

                        • RyuLion
                          • Mar 2003
                          • 32367

                          #42
                          Damn, these threads are crazy!!

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                          Comment

                          • klinton
                            So Fucking Banned
                            • Apr 2003
                            • 8766

                            #43
                            anyway, its very funny when i hear Obama about spreading democracy etc etc... talking shit to Yanukovicz and Russia...How the USA would fell if Russia would start talking about military intervention in Mexico, due to some riots going on there ? How the US would feel if Russia would support one of Mexico's political parties ? You got perfect example on that in Cuba...it was over 50 years ago, and not so much changed from that time....people get fucked from USA sanctions...and now they are surprised that Putin dont want to "borrow" money to Ukraine anymore...

                            it is internal issue of Ukraine now, and I hope all will be resolved...unless it is not too late

                            Comment

                            • Grapesoda
                              So Fucking Banned
                              • Jul 2003
                              • 46238

                              #44
                              Originally posted by dyna mo
                              No, you went on about "tribes", i'm the one that posted what you quoted.

                              one tribe has the money, the other doesn't... tribes aren't an issue? ever hear of the Middle East, Asia, India, Pakistan etc... the only reason the 'west' functions at the high level it does is because there is a level of 'societal trust' not present in 'tribes' that function on 'familial trust' but don't worry, the libs are breaking their asses to fill the west with tribal factions that refuse to get along with anyone else...

                              Comment

                              • dyna mo
                                just a fucking jerk
                                • Dec 2008
                                • 68184

                                #45
                                Originally posted by CyberSEO
                                2crockett: This is how it works in the USA (no Molotov cocktails, no guns, no burning officers, no broken heads, embossed eyes etc, just a lonely guy with a crowbar against two cops and their trained dog):

                                Originally posted by klinton
                                anyway, its very funny when i hear Obama about spreading democracy etc etc... talking shit to Yanukovicz and Russia...How the USA would fell if Russia would start talking about military intervention in Mexico, due to some riots going on there ? How the US would feel if Russia would support one of Mexico's political parties ? You got perfect example on that in Cuba...it was over 50 years ago, and not so much changed from that time....people get fucked from USA sanctions...and now they are surprised that Putin dont want to "borrow" money to Ukraine anymore...

                                it is internal issue of Ukraine now, and I hope all will be resolved...unless it is not too late


                                Originally posted by Grapesoda
                                one tribe has the money, the other doesn't... tribes aren't an issue? ever hear of the Middle East, Asia, India, Pakistan etc... the only reason the 'west' functions at the high level it does is because there is a level of 'societal trust' not present in 'tribes' that function on 'familial trust' but don't worry, the libs are breaking their asses to fill the west with tribal factions that refuse to get along with anyone else...
                                I have no idea what you are going on about. You don't either.

                                Comment

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