THIS is why all states should allow concealed carry.
 

Although I'm sorry to here that the store owner was injured, I'm sure he feels a great sense of accomplishment for being able to protect his business and employees. Well wishes to him for a speedy recovery.

http://www.startribune.com/nation/93...aPc:_Yyc:aUUsZ

dude fuckin handled it.. good for him

Having a weapon will not protect you. The armour will protect. You having a weapon may aggravate other people to attack you.

I just think that a concealed weapon can't really be hidden from other people. People read minds nowadays.

Ive actually been putting in quite a bit of thought about getting my permit...

Im not even a gun guy... but it does seem necessary at a point... not a daily point by any means... but if I need to I need to.

I love living in AZ with my glock tucked underneath my shirt. Seriously

A weapon is a deterrent. This store is not an easy mark and now the World knows it.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:helpme

Good, I hate Thieves.

Last month AZ passed a law where they no longer require a permit for a CCW. As long as you can legally own the gun, you can legally carry concealed.

Why not simply allow businesses the option of installing long titanium spikes within the floor, that can be activated by a switch in the event of a robbery.

Step 1. Robbers come in.
Step 2. Robbers bust out some guns.
Step 3. Hit the switch.
Step 4. 48" long spikes spaced evenly apart at 2" come thrusting up from the floor in the blink of an eye, instantly killing robbers.

Smooth. Efficient. Foolproof.

I mean, if we're talking about issuing a license to kill in the name of "protection", then that would certainly do the job much better than a gun in my opinion. Probably even get a discount on their insurance. Like installing an alarm system.

Like you even need a Glock, badass.

Good for him! Sucks that he left 3 of them alive though.

I'm about to rebuild my Glock 22. There are some great custom options available for them. Not nearly as many as for a 1911 but still....

tbh, i'm torn. as a gun advocate and owner, my actions follow my belief in the right to bear arms. but as i grow older, i wonder if allowing more people free reign with guns is the answer.

i just don't know. reading the article, that was no less than a total shoot out, i've seen video of shoot outs and shooters simply start firing randomly with little thought/mental clarity to aim or follow training procedures etc. i.e. start allowing everyone to conceal and i have a feeling we are going to start needing body bags for innocent people.

Um...Not everyone can conceal. Only those who can legally own. If the Government trusts you enough to allow you to buy a gun then why don't they trust you to carry it concealed? MOST people who are legal do not do the kind of shit you are referring to. I've seen a few of the videos you are referring to and they were all gang bangers or drunks in a bar. Neither of which can lawfully carry concealed or otherwise.

Current laws allow legal gun owners to open carry with no license in 50% of the United States. http://opencarry.org/opencarry.html

i am quite familiar with the law, thank you. By *everyone* I meant more people with the ability to conceal carry.

it was not my intent to disagree or argue, i simply stated i have mixed feelings on the matter due to the reasoning i stated.

If someone is pointing a gun at you, sure go ahead and impale them on titanium spikes. I have no problem with that.

I doubt most places can afford to install something like that and it's not really an option in a situation where there might be innocent bystanders in the store.

But having a wild west shootout, that's healthy for the other customers?

If it's a matter of expense, then store owners should be able to choose whatever method they like for murdering their potential robbers. Like, maybe a well-off owner gets the spikes installed, but then maybe another owner who's struggling just opts for dropping cheap home-made napalm on them from overhead.

Really, if it's all about cost, then by all means, let's make our killings on the cheap.

You have a right to meet lethal force with lethal force. The robber needs to take that into account when he points a weapon at someone.

If a robber points a gun at a police officer what do you think happens? Why should it be any different when he points it at a store owner?

You didn't answer my question. I wasn't debating the idea of lethal force meeting lethal force. In fact, I was streamlining it.

But you didn't answer my question. How is a wild west style shootout any better for the "innocent bystanders" than the possibility of being fatally impaled?

If you want to be able to legally kill, and that IS what this is about, then do it in the most economical foolproof way possible. Not some half baked dream of being Dirty Harry. There are much more effective ways of killing people.

Why not arm these store clerks with flamethrowers? That outta do the trick.

http://www.atomic-robo.com/wp-conten...nal-poster.jpg

:1orglaugh

I'm curious how many of you would consider it to be okay if say, another clerk from the back room came up behind the robber with a SOG knife, and severed his spinal cord or slit his throat. What's the difference right? If you're justified in killing them, (or permanently maiming them) you should at least be allowed to be creative, yes?

No need for concealed carry permits and all that nonsense. Just execute the piece of shit in whatever way tickles your pickle.

Killing in self defense requires the pretense of desperation and the threat of eminent death yourself.

Creativity would imply you had the leisure to ponder and thus you would be exercising deadly force, not countering it WITH deadly force.

While I take your point, a court would look upon most shoot outs as deadly force versus deadly force, while sneaking up on someone and murdering them would be...murder. Because the act of sneaking up implies that you were just as able to sneak away, and if your comrades were held at gun point you would have no way of knowing the circumstances. IE - the persons holding them at gun point had earlier identified themselves as an undercover cop.

Okay, so sneaking up is out.
Any reason the clerk behind the counter (the one facing the gun) can't be creative? Maybe throwing a jar of sulfuric acid in his face for example.

Pro guns +

Not sure I understand this. People who want to shoot others will find a way to get a gun regardless of the legalities. At least with a concealed license, there will be people that could possibly prevent these things from happening.

Sounds like he handled the situation......:thumbsup

I did not hear about this on the news....hummm

no permit required, see the post below. the new legislation also allows for guns that are manufactured in the state of AZ to not have to follow federal gun laws/registration.
i am unsure that the solution to the fact that people who want to shoot others can get easily get a gun is to let anyone else who wants to walk around with a (possibly unregistered) hand gun in their pants do so.

also, the thing about a permit that i always appreciated was the extra gun training required to obtain the permit.

AND, it will come in very handy should you ever be stopped, while you are carrying a firearm.


.

I live in Florida where there's a stand your ground law.... no retreat no surrender

that is a cool law

That would be really messy.. I prefer a steel floor wired with 440

Got to conceal carry to the state line and then open carry for about 8 hours than back to conceal carry on the way home.

I'm all of a sudden happy I live in Sweden....

Perfectly legal, I'd imagine. As would whipping out a machete and chopping off the guy's pistol hand or loosing your killer pit bull on him or unleashing your laser equipped sharks.

But at the end of the day what do you want from life?

To be Dirty Harry, handing out dirtnaps to evil doers, or to live a happy unmolested life?

I love the smell of a shootout in the morning...

I always carry... always...

I just got my Cali CCW because I will be doing tons of traveling there... what still sucks is the whole only 10rds in cali deal...

now I may be confused on it or it's just not clear to me... but can I do 10+1 or do I have to do 9+1

and think they will like my fn57 there?

I live in Texas i thinks its against the law here if you DONT carry a gun :P

good for him

I just find the different views people have on this stuff to be fascinating. There are people that will tell you that guns are straight up "evil". And then there are others that will defend them (guns) with the same ferocity they would use to defend their own child, yet most have no idea what a real gunshot does to a real body. Most have never seen a dead body. And most would probably be incapable of killing another human up close and personal when the event presented itself.

I find both ends to be ridiculous. And so, I come up with ideas and questions to get people thinking a little deeper than just what they've seen on tv. I think a lot of people want to carry because it would let them feel like some kind of bad ass. Psuedo-authority is not a good thing for anyone. I hear a lot of, "well, if someone had a concealed carry, they could have prevented this...." but the reality is, more people would probably die for no reason.

Having a gun and the ability to kill a man where he stands do not come as a package deal. :2 cents:

I know what you are up to man, and I agree.

At the end of the day, for most people guns are gadgets. They fetishize them the same way they fetishize cameras or computers or whatever. But this is a gadget that makes you stand a little taller and maybe act a little tougher than you should and some people love that.

I lived in Tucson for a long while and I know where the store in the story is and I can tell you right now, there isn't shit in the dump worth losing your life over, or worth taking a life over.

And for the record the store owner lit those guys up with a POS Mossberg shotgun, not a concealed handgun (a good friend of mine is a Tucson reporter).

I'm not trying to disagree or argue either but based on your wishywashy statement I figured you did not understand the law. Not sure how somebody, who owns a firearm, could know the law and still not be able to pick the side that gives them the right to use what they own.

I don't think that is true about the legislation. That's a separate thing which, as far as I know, is not yet law.

Also, not all states require training with the gun to qualify for a CCW.

Good for you, good for your friend...Your outlook is skewed though. You have cast a pretty broad generalization. Two in fact.

If we are talking about guns as a preventive of crime, then wouldn't open carry be more effective than concealed? Say you are in a store, waiting in line with your glock on your belt for everyone to see and a robber walks in with intent. If the robber saw someone with a gun wouldn't they then look for another place to rob?

http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_...g_full_600.jpg

Plus, if you are legally entitled to carry, why hide it? It would seem only someone who either illegally obtained the firearm or has illegal motives for carrying would want to conceal.

So now they'll just kill the guy right away, or bring more guns, etc..

On one hand I agree with you. However the other side to that is:

Open carry can often make others around you feel uncomfortable. The other thing is that most people think that a permit is required for you to own a gun, which is not the case in most states, and they don't understand that it is legal to open carry in many areas. It's not unheard of for people to call the Police and report a guy with a gun in a store. The Police show up and everything is legal. That's a waste of Police time and resources because some idiot in the public THINKS he knows the law.

Open carry attracts more attention and being the center of attention is not what carrying a firearm is about. I do open carry at times but when I do I am very aware of how my gun is positioned and I do my best to limit it's visibility. If I'm standing at a counter then I will put my right side to the counter and limit the exposure of my gun. Sitting in a booth then I never sit on the side where my gun can be seen.

LOL

Right. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

why you would describe my view as wishy washy is beyond me, i see both sides and as i mature in life my views on life also mature and evolve. that's not wishy washy (flip-flopping from one side to the other).

in fact, i own several handguns and rifles, not A firearm. moreover, as i stated, my actions belie my beliefs in the right to bear arms. that has not changed.