Are you interested in going offshore?
 

How many of you are still not offshore and have plans to do so? If you are interested, what's your main purpose: to avoid 2257 or to get tax deductions? I'm really interested to hear your opinion on this topic...

Some interesting threads on this topic:

it/710176-offshore-gibraltar-vs-cyprus.html
fucking-around-and-business-discussion/677668-incorporating-offshore-legal-mumbo-jumbo.html

Already offshore... reasons... (a) better lifestyle, (b) no taxation and (c) superior legal environment for the adult biz.

For any serious webmaster operations - it's not an option, but a necessity - tho appreciate US webmasters (or specifically, US citizens) will not get the full benefit on (b) and to a lesser extent (c).

which country would you suggest for incorporation?

Whee nettrust :winkwink: That really depends on individual background to a degree and what ya want to achieve at the end of the day.

It may be worth having a look at Bahamas, Panama and Gibraltar. Cyprus is OK, tho there is an obligation to do some accounts filing (why bother when you don't have to waste time on this elsewhere?)

For "blocking" and "barriers" would prob suggest Panama. The pluses to Gib are that it is in the EU and can be useful in complying with VISA regs within the EU and processing.

Other bit worth mentioning - banking should be in a different jurisdiction to that where the corp is founded (and no reason not to have more than one banking account for any corp).

Fundamentally... even before mapping out a possible structure - it's a good idea to do a "self-analysis" of what is legally possible and trying to stay within whatever "home country" laws. It may be worth consideration to being resident offshore - by doing so, this kills one hell of a lot of legal obstacles and keeps everything above board. This is easy for the majority of countries - tho there are about four which are an exception - Lybia, US, Saudi and some "stan" country. If nationality is with any of these countries - there are ... kinda obstacles. Example.. if a person is a US citizen, sure there is an allowance of around $80K for foreign residency - but the whole concept of offshore kinda falls apart after that, - simply because there is a legal requirement to report all foreign income on an annual basis and this wipes the privacy element of offshore. Tho... there are probably methods where there is a gain, and still have this totally legitimate (tho seriously need a lawyer for this).

Unless you want processing... my gutty feeling is Panama is prob a good idea - mainly for confidentiality. But again... there could be a scenario where a Panama corp is the owner of a Gib corp which can alleviate a small about of taxation in Gib and where the profits are moved over to Panama where there is no taxation. There are plenty ways to skin a cat and keep everything legal :winkwink:

PS Damn.. almost forgot!! If you are a US citizen, Panama is prob not such a good idea.

The problem with Panama (and a few other offshore jurisdictions) is that there is a MAT (Mutual Assistance Treaty) with the US - other countries don't have this. So... again.. it's prob worth consulting a lawyer - not really about offshore law, but more about US domestic law re any problems this could possibly cause.

As you and I discussed before, just about everyone has a MAT with the USA these days. Uncle Sam wants his money and will stop at nothing to get it.

This is true DWB - keep finding more of the damned things!

It seems a bit over the top that Uncle Sam is the only western country to tax their citizens even if they don't live in the US - and chase em worldwide!

yes, i am interested in going offshore............fishing

it sux to be double taxed, by the country you are living in and by the USA at the same time...

btw, USA is not the only country that taxes their citizens living abroad... :(

what about singapore?

porn is illegal like in the rest of Asia, and it's very expensive country... rent starts from thousand/month no matter how smal the room is.

but you forgot the extremely hot women there...although sort of stuck up....and the 100 degree weather....so humid there. u almost need to change shirts every few hours....shopping is great there...esp. orchard row and suntec

One bump here...

i'm looking for some really nice packages to offer to all of you who are actually interested... :)

Any news? I've been looking into this recently...

even if you have a company off shore, and host off shore.. but you ownthe company and you are a US citizen. you still get bonned the only way to really do this correctly is to denounce your US citizenship and move out of country.

Too many people think oh i'll just host off shore... which.. wont help you one bit.

Blame Canada

im interested...
but simply because i dont like staying in one place too long

i think i have some really nice tips and tricks to incorporate offshore, fast and cheap. feel free to send me an e-mail to nettrust [at] gmail. i'll be glad to answer to all of you.

ONe thing about that, is if you make the money show that it was earned from outside the US, then the first 80k is tax free

You can thank America's clueless politicans for this bullshit.

They don't seem to get that making US-Laws on a Global Network just pushes business out of their country, and stops nothing.

I wonder how much tax dollars will be lost over the next few years from this industry moving away from the USA.

What a bunch of dumbfucks.

someone found this thread interesting, so i'll simply bump it now...

I've got a Canadian friend interested in getting an offshore corp so he can get processing, if anyone has any suggestions, or places he can go to get something done, please let me know..

YOU ARE A LIAR AND A FAKE PLAYA :321GFY

I just lost everything I own in the world in Panama. EVERYTHING. My home, cars, bank accounts, business.

10 people invaded my home, tied up my fiancee, maid and employees, put a gun to her head, and forced her to open my safes. In broad daylight, with no masks, in the best building in the entire country.

http://RichardJSchueler.com

and that's just the tip of the horror iceberg.

Keep in mind, that if you can show your income as comming from OUTSIDE the US, then you dont pay taxes on the first 80K as a US citizen.

Yup most people don't realise this. They setup their company and run everything through it thinking they won't have to pay tax, then they get audited and get hit with tax evasion and goto jail. It would be better just to not your pay your taxes at all then try and hide the money from the govt.

Ive never heard of that one. I paid taxes on some 300-400k in 2001 from a company that was not in the USA. I was told I had to pay taxes on ALL of it.

Do you have any documents that discuss this?

IRS.gov.....

thats pretty crazy

What document though?

Sorry, thats the part I dont remember. I was looking for it, but can not find it. If you have a friendly accountant in the US, give them a call and ask.

Yo, I'm from the UK and fishing for off shore accounts and I need some more info, someone make a post...explaining whats the difference between UK and USA laws regarding taxes n shit

thx

The only reason I would go offshore is to be able to have my own Merchant Account and save 7% on processing fees. I tried once and get fucked, i'm not sure I want to try again.
Saving taxes... I don't mind paying taxes to my country, I make enouph money to do whatever I want. Giving a % of it to other people simply make me feel better. My 2 cents.

One of the things that People need to realize is that going off shore does not stop you from being under US law. If they pass the 2257 laws, they can simply make them so that if you sell content to a US citizen using a US credit card, then you must have the 2257. Something similar to the Gambling law.

I'm looking at incorporating offshore too. Panama is now on my "not to visit" places though.

What are the benefits of owning a corporation and bank account offshore, if you live in one of the EU countries and you're not a US citizen? I guess this depends on the laws of each country, but overall...complete tax free living?

Sweet, but what if you're a Canadian citizen living in Canada and you operate a company registered in Seychelles there? Are you required to pay tax in Canada?

To those interested in the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion:

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/...=97130,00.html

Looks like the requirements state if you are a US citizen you gotta live in the foreign country for at least 330 days of the year.

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/...=96817,00.html

Ah that makes more sense

330days rule very brutal,its half a year + a day in most countries

Offshore structuring when done right is not about not paying tax.

It’s about DEFERING & MINIMISING the tax, legally. And where you know you are going to pay tax, its about turning whatever source of income you have into the lowest tax form of income.

If you can defer tax today for 10 years not only can you earn interest on the money you would have paid during those 10 years, but perhaps the tax rate you have to pay will have dropped by then (tax rates are generally trending down in most countries).

More importantly when done right it’s also about asset protection. (And yes i read that panama story, the person involved is an idiot, you never put all your assets in one country, ever. And you generally don’t live in the country you use to hold your assets).

Every country in the world pretty much taxes its Residents (normally 183 days a year in country or a test based on things like owning property).

Many countries also have controlled foreign corporation legislation so if you own or manage (can be very loosely defined) a foreign company (in any country) it might be considered local for tax purposes.

USA is particularly brutal in its tax laws. It’s one of only 4 countries in the world that tax its citizens on their world wide income (less the $80000 a year allowance mentioned above) even if you are nonresident. USA also has pretty much the strictest non residence test, and some very tough CFC laws. You could certainly find yourself having profits of a foreign company you owned shares in added to your personal taxable income if you structured things wrongly - even if it is a legitimate business with staff and management in another country.

There is no benefit in setting up an offshore structure if you think you can dump money into a bank account in another country, get an ATM card, and withdraw money in your home country and not pay tax on it. You will get caught, and the governments are tracking more people doing this than ever before through tracking atm card usage.

However if you have income sources from a number of countries, staff, contractors or suppliers in a number of countries then its potentially beneficial to look at going "offshore" depending on your turnover and profitability, and how much of the profit you want to spend personally, or how much you want to leave for investments. You can buy investments through an offshore company with most of the major stockbrokers, investment funds etc.

If you do have a multi country operation and have companies in different jurisdictions then there is generally a lot of tax saving potential through careful choice of ownership countries and the use of double tax treaties.

Some of the most common "off shore" countries used are not what you would expect. UK, USA, Netherlands are all offshore countries in right circumstances (for example a USA LLC pays no USA tax if it is owned and managed outside the USA and has no USA source income).

Low tax countries like Cyprus are also very useful as they exempt many forms of income which can bring the tax down to close to 0%, while still having your company in an EU country.

Getting the right structure isn’t as expensive as a lot make out but it isn’t cheap either. If you run off and just buy a company in another country and open a bank account and think you’re done then you are almost certainly asking for trouble.

Most people rely on nominee services to ensure they aren’t breaking controlled foreign corporation laws. The few hundred dollar a year nominee services you see from most offshore company providers are for non trading companies - i.e. companies holding investments etc. They normally charge a lot more if it has any commercial activity and most won’t go near adult. If you don’t disclose what the company is doing they will find out and you may find yourself with a company or bank accounts they have arranged etc.

And if you run around operating the company through a power of attnorney as well you are going to break CFC regs too and shift the companies management to your place of business. Its fine for the occassional thing or to operate a bank account with (within reason) but you are better served paying your nominee to execute any major contracts on your behalf.

You need to allow for at least the same amount as the setup costs of the companies (and you will need more than 1 to do it right) in initial advice fees unless you know exactly what you are doing.

Yeah? :winkwink: Nope - it's about not paying any tax legally. It's also about not being burdened with tax forms of any kind.

Seriously, not a bad writeup and many good points. The aura I'm getting from your post is that of a onshore legal advisor playing games and covering his ass.

The subject of this thread relates to "going offshore". Going offshore has nothing to do with sitting on your ass in an onshore country and playing games with corporate structures offshore.

Going offshore means getting on an aircraft and moving to (usually) better climates and, ideally, not paying *any* taxes and not having to account to the govt of that jurisdiction for any financial activity in a corp business.

Structures can still be relevant even under these situations and where you may wish a presence elsewhere for whatever reason.

But... just trust me :) - it has very little to do with deferring or minimizing taxes - there are no taxes :thumbsup

unless you move also your not protected, if I was going to actually move it would be canada and I would become a citizen. Moving to a quazi third world countries things can turn very quickly.

Well unless I was going to 100% physically move offshore I'd not consider it. Reason is simple...friend of the family is in the US Treasury dept and, well, let me be blunt, unless you are hand carrying cash piles to different countries under the radar you are sending up huge fucking flags that can be seen....don't kid yourself in a post 9/11 world...money is heavily watched. If you do it right, great, if you do it shady --- grab those ankles.

No Gary... it would be normal if you are still actually resident in your "home country" to pay any tax element coming from any benefits in your offshore corp. In other words (and this can vary depending on the specifics of tax legislation of the country in which you reside) - any financial reward you get from your offshore (or any corp) would normally be taxable in your country of residence.

From a legal angle, it sure would not be complete tax free living and most probably, if that was attempted, would be a violation of tax laws - not worth the hassle/penalty.

In it's simplest form and towards "complete tax free living", this normally requires living in a no tax or low tax jurisdiction. Even then, there are taxes of some form or other - ie on importation of goods, sales tax in restaurants etc, but no personal or corporate taxation. We have been operating from bases in offshore jurisdictions for a good few years now and there is a benefit to not paying taxes, but other benefits in lifestyle - and these can be more relevant.

There is the option of setting up structures as Jayson mentioned - and these are probably more relevant to people who wish to remain "onshore" and, most are likely to minimize taxation to varying degrees, but there will remain laws in your country of residence where reporting and tax payment will be required.

Not sure where you are from man, but for US citizens - this is not an option to move OS and not pay any taxation. There are annual filings required and these include interests/income from OS corps. This demolishes the whole concept of OS in that the privacy element is removed when there is a requirement to state details on IRS forms etc.

Legitimate money movements are not a problem and all offshore banks will want declarations for any movement of around $10,000 or more. Can't see a need to carry cash and agree that would attract attention almost everywhere if it was high values.

50 miles offshore

Two lawyers, the 'Chad Knows Law' guy and Eric M. Bernstein, have both said that going offshore does not release webmasters from 2257.

:warning