Why is Custom Exclusive content so cheap?
 

One of the things I noticed about custom content is the money offered is a lot less than the money we get selling it non exclusive, this applies to straight and I assume to gay content.

We are offered $300 for an exclusive set and a video, and some offer less, that in the content store will sell 10 times for $35 as an image set and 10 times as a video and image set at $60. Total earned $950. This is an average solo girl set, a good set will sell for more and a bad one in Bargain Basement Cotnet Store at $5 or $10 and sales will fly to 50 or higher over the lifetime of the set.

So why do people shoot exclusive them so cheaply?

Not everyone can be Paul Markham. Some people need to use price point as their competitive advantage. Ultimately of course you get what you pay for. Garbage in, garbage out.

good points

third world economies help a lot in my case :glugglug

Everyone can be as good as me and there are many better than me.

lot of respect for Max Candy and Mutt, from what I see they both produce and excellent product.

But I agree with the garbage in, garbage out phrase. some of the custom stuff I've seen is shite and would not sell 10 times if it were in our content store.

I'm in Czech and can shoot sets at a lot less than most, got to be honest what justifies my price is the RETURN, not the production costs.

Of course there are other talented people too. I doubt you can get custom exclusive crom Max Candy, Mutt or AaaronM for $300 a set though.

i sell hardcore exclusives startng at 2000. i sell lots of it. Not sure what you consider cheap..

That's a very interesting position i haven't tought of it that way, just a matter of fixed cost/markup for me since the return can be very relative depending on the client's marketing skills, but i see your point that's not your business but your client's to sell the content, if you know for a fact how much money is on average potentially to be made, makes sense.
now the question is, are your clients ready to pay what your content is worth? or constantly looking for a bargain?

Short term Markets, Future Markets

5$ today or 15$ in a year, that?s is the question?

Many companies think short term and simply cannot wait, they need cash flow (boats, x wives, and other nasty bills), they should though, but be glad they don't. Otherwise you would get less in your long-term market approach.

I will send you a book on economics and capitalism.
:2 cents:

you should request just more for exclusive.. then buy it or leave it.. ;-)

I do not know about the other guys, but i work for Food.

I will shoot an exclusive set think this
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...55#post8332955
for 299.99$

I think you will find they shoot for some people who will never pay much more than $150 a set. ATK for instance.

http://www.maxcandy.com/maxAtWork.jpg

299.99 USD exclusive

ok, plus a few expenses for

. 12 AK-47s
· 24 riding boots
· 1 handgun
· 280 rounds of ammunition
· 11 berets
· 1 officer cap
· 7 bottles of baby oil
· 6 bottles of pink nail polish
· 4 make up artists.
· 3 vans for transportation to location,
· 1 portable power generator
· 4 man video/photo crew

Boy girl is a tougher call unless it's good, then it's a much better return.

Onnly good sets/girls.
US magazine $3,000
UK magazine $1,000
EU magazines $1,000
2nd rights, $2,000

Internet sales 20 times the image set at $50 = $1,000
20 times the image and video set at $80 = $1,600

These would be in the first year to 18 months, after that we still own the rights and the money still flows.

You have to remember the main argument about non exclusive, it's saturated. :1orglaugh

hey man, send me those mag tel numbers!

I think you will find in most markets prices are governed by the worth of the goods. Production costs give you a bottom line.

We have two types of clients, ones who want unsaturated, good and fresh content. They are willing to pay $40 upwards for a set or videos because it's cheaper than exclusive and the results are the same.

And the guys who want to buy on price, anything so long as the price is right. For them we have sets for $2 and I think they get saturated after a year or two. :1orglaugh

I know why you don't have a content store, it would mean having to work 12 months of the year and would seriously change your life style. :1orglaugh

You are right about cash flow, some of the exclusive shooters could not fund a days work they are working so close to the bone. As for going out and buying a good camera or going to a show overseas, well forget about that.

I knew, i should not have skipped that class, i see, i understand;

But what determines worth of good?

http://www.maxcandy.com/maxAtWork.jpg

Throw away the disposable camera and I will tell you how to shoot. :1orglaugh

I'm phoning some of these girls and telling them the next time they have a gun aimed at you to make sure they have bullets. :1orglaugh

Demand and supply pretty well much cover it.

Paul - you have been chasing your tail around this issue for as long as i have known you existed. The problem is you were a magazine photographer and you have never been able to accept that for various reasons the markets are two entirely different animals. 99% of the guys shooting custom exclusive content for the Interent were pure amateur photographers - the adult biz was born and amateur photogs from all over the world had a hunch that seeing all these porn pics on the Net(most scanned from magazines or from a few BBS originated CD's again mostly old magazine crap) that these guys with these websites might pay for them to shoot nude pics. They'd email different sites and say 'I can find models and shoot this stuff, how much will you pay me?' Not many webmasters were buying custom anything, they were too busy stealing content and figuring out how to steal traffic from fellow webmasters, spam, and rip off surfers. The amateur photogs found ATK - still the largest single exclusive content buyer on the Net - Kim set the price what an amateur photoset was worth - to him. It wasn't a great price and to a magazine photographer it would seem an insult BUT he would buy way the fuck more content on a girl than a magazine - and he'd pay them fast - and his expectations weren't high - amateur was fine - change her clothes, change the background - now to an amateur photographer who may have been working at job for $50-100K a year driving an hour back and forth to work being able to make the same living doing something more fun, shooting naked 18 year olds from home that sounded like a great life. Photogs easily clear $500 a day doing a shoot for ATK or Karups or any of the sites that came to follow in their footsteps and on better days maybe a grand - good amateur shooters should be able to make 100K a year if they work hard - some do less some do better. Because you're a guy with a magazine background you've got a hangup about the value of a photoset and your worth - and obviously you've arrived at the conclusion finally that it does make sense to shoot for bargain basement prices - you want to sell amateur sets for 5 bucks apiece - you'll have to sell that set 30 times over - how long will that take?

sites like ATK no longer expect/accept crap though - what was 'amateur' in 1999 isn't what's 'amateur' in 2005.

as long as ATK and Karups set the price for an amateur exclusive photoset - that was it - there was nothing any shooter could do about it if he wanted to remain in business - webmasters ain't stupid - they find out this information and they aren't going to pay much more if any more than ATK for the same thing. Not to mention your European buddies who when costs were alot lower over there were willing to sell for $75-100 bucks a set.

most photogs worship ATK.

Mutt,

I think all Paul trying to do is help lead the market; offer some of his vast experience, as an over paid talentless hack!, just kidding.

Hell, Paul started with naughty cave drawings when the dinosaurs still roamed the earth.

Why do you want to pee in his cornflakes?

You know that movie Zoolander, where they have a walk off?

You and Paul should have a photo compare off.

Each shows a picture, we vote, then another.

Until it becomes very clear who should be paid what?

Hi Mutt.

Yes I understand what you're saying about what happened 6-7 years ago. The surfer was surprised that there was porn on the Internet and took a lot less porn quality than needed today. But though the quality required has risen the price has not.

But it still comes down to the bottom line, why do you sell a set for $150 when it can sell for a lot more?

As for production levels and cash returns. Are these guys so hard up that they can't put aside one days work for non exclusive and do the rest exclusive?

As for some of the guys shooting at $75 to $100 a set, if they were half way decent don't you think I would buy from them to resell?

Those guys are largely producing crap and that does not sell today. The site owners buying it may tell the noobie affiliates it sells and throw 100s of 1,000s of hits at it a day, but the guy spending $30 a month has a little more of a clue.

But you are right about magazines and the ability of many to invest, we're able to invest $1,000 to shoot a set that will return $10,000. Because we have the steady income from all sectors we are able to invest.

But wrong about me going for the high prices and quality. Check these out. Sets starting from $2. Do you think some of them sold a little more than 50 times?

Most custom shooters are far from making $100k a year clear.

As for ATK dominating price, seems you are right there. But why don't shooters sell via brokers, they would still make more than $150 a set? If it's any good.

I think what I have done is put the nail in a few coffins of guys who were supplying content 5 years ago and dragged a few others up by the boot straps to look on content production as a bit more than point and click. There were a few clowns with cameras around back in 2000, most now are gone.

As for a photo shoot off, Mutt maybe a much better shooter than me, that's not what it's about. What it's about is how much money a shoot and shooter makes for the same effort.

Also I get people talking about content, dragging them away from roll calls, getting their dicks out on first dates and Boneprone.

You remember content, that product we ultimately all sell.

Interesting!

i want to compare portfolios?

because most shooters want a stable business - lots of ATK shooters did use brokers I think at one time, maybe they still do - shoot 10 sets for ATK and then a few extra and put them with a broker. ATK values loyalty and degrees of exclusivity - meaning when they make buying decisions they are going to favor those who shoot for less customers.

but i do somewhat agree with you - my guys could have made more money also licensing content - out of loyalty to ATK and other exclusive customers they decided not to sell licensed content.

that's how I met Brian Bradley aka Wanton - he was my favorite ATK shooter - liked the girls he was shooting and the quality - so I called him up and asked him how much to buy content from him - was going to buy a shitload from him - the intent was to license it. I thought he understood that - obviously he hadn't understood me because a few days later he contacted me and said 'You aren't reselling this are you?' and I said 'um ...... yeah!' and he said he couldn't do that - for the reasons given above .... so we came to another agreement.

aye carumba - i am not a shooter! i've said this a hundred times on this board before - and even people i tell forget it and start talking to me like I'm a photographer - by now I do know a helluva alot about the business of being a photog and alot of the technical issues but I'm not a shooter. I mention my photographers every time I post a girl practically. But sometimes it is fun to claim that some of the work is MINE! :1orglaugh

Does Brian Bradley go by BMB sometimes?

yes - that's been Brian's photo credit at times - sometimes it says 'wanton' though. not really sure why that happens.

sorry me bad, you do have 13,520 more post than me

haha - i know - and that's why i had photogs all wanting to work with me - because photogs can't be on messageboards while they are recruiting models, booking models, shooting, editing etc. very few photogs other than Paul have any time for GFY - Paul has more overhead than other photogs - he's got a staff of peope working for him plus his wife shooting. most guys doing this have at maximum a part time assistant - many have no help at all.

You and I have spoken about this, I've never claimed to be a great shooter. I do claim to be a good marketing man and pornographer.

what a minute you and paul have damn nearing the same number of posts are you guys the same guy!!!

So not only do they limit you on price they also control the amount you sell.

Sorry if I got this wrong are you selling for these guys so taking a cut of the money?

Yes one of the reasons for our success is that Eva is a very good shooter, not quite up to my level but far more motivated and dedicated than me, and a damn site better than I was after 7 years shooting. Eva allowed me to go about marketing and making sure the programmer built the site properly. Back in 2000 we were two people and two part timers. Me and Eva, then Katka make up and Pavel who built the first site.

Now we are ten and looking to take on another, all because we took the long term route. Long term in that a set of our will sell 5 times in the first 3 months and return $175, set and video $350.

Yes our overheads are a lot more than a single guy working from home, but so is our margin. Very few custom shooters turned up in Amsterdam and I doubt if there will be many in Vegas.

welcome to the capitalism :)
the buyer can get it cheap, expensive, many kinds of quality and he can decide...

And one more thing, you think its all about quality of the shoot, perfect lightning, etc etc but the truth is the amateur stuff is the hottest and makes the most sales. Even an average surfer can see which is pure and real amateur stuff and whats done in a professional studio.

I know why people buy it, because people will supply it at that price. My question is why do they sell it so cheap? :1orglaugh

As for the argument about amateur well that's side tracking and wrong. If Amateur sells better than professional then those shooting amateur would be selling more than 20 times so making more money.

Truth is they sell for $150 a set $300 a set and video. Well if you were right they would be stupid to sell for that price if Amateur outsold Professional.

Just as a side note can you tell me what is professional and perfect lighting with these sets?
Readers Wives sets on Bargain Basement.

These sets sell to magazines for $200 a set, payment immediate and to the Internet for about the same. I know the value of Amateur a little more than you credit me.

I was replying to this:

:)



Amateur looking easy to navigate sites convert better than flashy design, yet, people promote the optically good looking sites, so? :)

I will shoot my nbext dorr neighbours midlife crisis swingers party gangbang with my cannon ixus compact for 50 bucks :P

good point, if you remember everyone was going gaga over that girl in that badly lit webcam video

Paul,

I think alot of the market prices has to do with member retention lengths and *very* few websites have content that will effect/maintain those lengths and those sites produce the majority of their own content because of the extreme costs it would involve to outsource it. Mac & Bumble and Als Scan are two examples of this.

For the rest of the of the paysites out there, most are going to retain members for 2 months and might squeeze out a 3rd month if they have a hellacious live/recorded feed area so it comes down to having a shitload of content so that it takes the surfer 2-3 months to go through it all.

Your stuff is good - nobody denies that - but if I can get 2 to 3 times the content for the same price you charge, sombody else is going to get my $'s. True, it won't be as good as you could produce, but I don't need it to be.

The average surfer could care less if you use a superdooper high shutterspeed laser rangefinder camera with whatchamacallit filtering or monochrome film with lighting that brings out the models eyes....

Are the girls pretty? Is it in focus? Are there lots of money shots?
Pull out dick and whack off to pictures then.........

You'll be a hell of a salesman if you can persuade people to pay lawyer rates in a world where they only need a paralegal.

That's a good price for sure.

Okay so this is a marketing thread not an economics class and I'm sure you realize that price spreads are almost always pyramidal as a reflection of market demands. And since selling price is only one component of running a successful business, a seller can aim at whatever price level suits him.

That said, most sellers end up aiming for average prices because in the long term it is much harder to operate at either extreme. You have to run a business far more tightly if you sell on low price and you are always vulnerable to anyone with deeper pockets who wants to buy market share. Price yourself at the top end and your buyers are likely to be far more fickle, since their perception of value usually includes many more intangibles than concern customers for mid-range products and services.

Do not tell anyone, but Max Candy works for Big Macs, $1.99 a day

I want my exclusives to be made amateur-style because I can really sell amateur 20 times better than I can sell high-quality professional stuff. If a surfer really wants super high quality he will simply buy DVDs and watch them on 52" wide-screen plasma TV surely wouldn't be signing up for paysites. Some of those shooting amateur ofcourse do sell more than 20 times and do make more money while others don't cause they don't market their products well. also there are number of others who do make good money marketing their products offline only then ofcourse there are many others who are just too fucking amateurs don't make shit kinda like someone reading half of this post decides to pick up a $50 camera from the flea market and start shooting local whores with it :helpme

And you also get me scratching my head when you bash maxcandy. Umm.. I thought his stuff (photo content ie. haven't seen his vid content) was good and if I thought his stuff was good being in this biz for a while I highly doubt surfers with 1 hand on their dicks would think otherwise :winkwink:

MC, if you'd work for a less calories McChicken instead you are hired :1orglaugh

Amateur does sell 20 times more than pro content.

There is alot more amateur content available and drawing down the numbers proves Amateur Content is more profitable as a niche over all however it is over saturated ( IE Anyone can produce it for less and cheaper and more of it ) however bottom line for an individual amateur producer tends to be less since for every pro producer he may have 10 competitors in a Pro niche, while in Amateur the producer will have possibly 50+ in a amateur niche.

Good post and very good points.

I disagree with the conclusion about people will not pay ar stay around for better porn, simply on the examples you give, Alsscan and sites in this area seem to retain better. Including our site.

But you have not answered my intitial question in fact you have backed it up.

If it sells so well why are exclusive shooters selling it so cheap?

Another good post. However who is the final judge, the paysite owner or the member?

:batman .