100 monkees shooting exclusive for you. :1orglaugh

good thread

The model costs $500, location if you do not have one $200, what other costs are there?

Your posts tells me they are working on a shoestring budget if they can't fund a shooting day for $700.

Good post. But to make it really exclusive in the eyes of the consumer it means, new girl, new location, new theme. Otherwiae it's just another girl getting naked or fucked in front of the camera.

Especially if it's in the same room, style and underwear of the girl before.


No surfer ever got a hard on because the content was exclusive, he got a hard on because it was good stuff he had not seen before. Impossible to do at $150 a set or video, then it's conveyor belt crap and expect the surfer to respond to as such.

If Paul Markham makes ANOTHER " Exclusive Content " thread, lets beat his ass. He's been making this same thread for 10 years now.

Good point and for many this is the problem. They are competing at the bottom of the barrel and suffer from the amount of free porn available.

However if you think a guy can pick up a camera, find a model and within a few weeks do what I can then you're in the wrong business. Look at the sites rising to the top and ask yourself why. Are they getting better traffic numbers, conversion ratios and retention because they are cutting the costs of the one thing they actully sell or are they doing the opposite of 90% of the Adult Internet?

I was recently asked to shoot content like Perfect Gonzo, when the guy heard the price he told me he could get it cheaper elsewhere. I told him to go and get it then, he has not and never will at the price he's willing to pay. Which is why those at the top of the tree are in a good place.

Lensman said at the Amsterdam seminar on content that the big porn producers are not top on the traffic figures, I wonder if Private retain for an average of two months?

Another very good point.

Just before we went on holiday we found a cute model who we tried to book exclusive for a client, the models boyfriend was not having it and wanted her working for everyonne.

The original deal was we shoot her for the site exclusive and shoot the magazine content afterwards. But with her working with anyone we shot her first for our magazine client. In two days we shot 6 sets worth $3,000 each. Bit different from shooting sets at $500 a time.

A good ecxlusive model on the content store is worth $1,000 a set/video. So why do the custom guys shoot for $300 a set/video?

Good point and as I pointed out if you're selling content that any one can shoot expect to compete with the rest at the bottom of the barrel.

Not that our content is so great either, but if we're working on a set that returns $3,000 we do a little more than one that returns $1,000.

I can take the beatings. :1orglaugh

My post doesnt say they are working on a shoestring, it says it is possible that people apply the above business practice/model to suit they cashflow and business structure. 700 a day sounds a reasonable amount of money to spend on a days shoot inc location, perhaps er'ing on the high side for model but then im not counting.

I never said you said it, I said it tells me, slight but major difference. A solo girl set+video will make easily $500 non exclusive and probably averages $700. seems to me if you don't have the ability to double your return for the investment of $700 you are a bit tight for cash.

The idea of this thread was to start a debate, which it did :) , on why do some sell sets at around $150 and sets+videos at $300 when "non-exclusive content is saturated.

The two things simply do not tally and make sense. To me the explanations are as follows.

(A) Unable to get a credit card processing account. Does not sound so good.
(B) Unable to do the marketing that is required, but able to market Custom shooting?
(C) Have extra capacity on the shooting side that non exclusive will not take up. Very plausable.
(D) Their content does not sell non-exclusive. This I know for a fact after buying some and trying to resell it.
(E) Non exclusive is not as saturated as some would have us believe. Probably the real reason as I know how many times a good set or video sells and this is not enought to saturate a set.

I'm willing to listen to anyone who has a better explanation.

sounds like
you use really cheap locations
+ you don't use assistant
+ you don't use stylist
+ you don't care about food , fuel for moving to location etc ect

My locations, assistant, stylist, food, transport comes out of fixed costs not the actual shoot costs so I did not include them.

$700 was for those taking $1500 for a days work and paying the models.

Still does not answer the question, why sell sets for $1500 when non exclusive is saturated and would make so much more?

You know the one side we have not heard from in this debate is from the paysite owners who claim non exclusive is saturated. Then pay so low for such a fantastic product, well they say it's fantastic. :1orglaugh

Yeah for sure many people shooting are tight for cash but ive still had good content for what i would regard as inexpensive. There willalways be saturation of poor content though purely as there will always be dreams/and/or short of cash who want to spent their days taking pics of chicks. With respect to the above points...
A) Yes usually a bad sign but country of origin can play a role
B) Possible, as building a well frequented store that will sell 10+ copies of set could be a pain in the ass for 1 guy shooting for him and a few other people.
C) Yep very
D) Yep for a store to sell a decent number of a set it will have to be of high quality and broader apeal.
E) Depends what you mean by saturated - if 10 people try to make free sites with the 1 set it will be saturated on link lists, but if just sitting in 10 members areas then no its not.

Still plenty of decent quality material avalable exclsuively and low cost.

> Ease of sale and above

> Its a branding and paysite marketing issue. If you shoot exclusively for your tours you can brand the material to suit your brand. A model sporting a shirt or sign for the "Girlnextdoor-sucks-on-postmans-cock.com" talking about winning the next blow job olympics and name dropping the site probably won't come from a shelf in a content store.

> Marketing purposes. You can distribute to affiliates under your license and pretty much do what you want with it. In house marketing gets return from position on fresh content.

There has thus been a trend for companies to move towards kind of content.

I dont agree necessarily with the market expecting exclsives for lower prices and for sure private's will retain super well.

One of the reasons programs other than those owned by big producers do pull in large volumes of traffic is becuase the flexibility, speed of delivery and lower relative cost shooting content facilitates creativity in terms of niche exploitation.

Apply this to the program
Retenion may not be as good as sites pushing high end content but you can up and cross sell those people and surfer buying Girlnextdoor-sucks-on-postmans-cock.com willcome back to see Girlnextdoor-loves-postmanscosk-in-her-ass.com and so it goes on :)

Good answers.

I can see why people will buy exclusive if it's good and try to get the price down that's good business. We've bought some exclusive sets and sold them non exclusive and made a nice profit off them. It's got to be real crap to not sell 20 times at $5 so the risks are low. But the crap offered to us often is rejected.

Agreed. I know what it's like to work from a country that is not the US and getting a CC processor.

Agreed. The reason for our success is largely down to Eva shooting a lot and me marketing.

Agreed. Very possibly a reason. contrary to the popular belief :winkwink: it is not as easy as many think to pick up a camera and produce porn. It takes skills and talent, the equipment may be easy to master and obtain the rest is the hard part. And the part that keeps members coming back for more and more.

Don't agree with this one. As we sell the 20 sets for $25 offer to the same people time after time, plus Bargain Basement is full of webmasters content at $5 that sell 50 times and no one complains. If a set used by 10 people on free sites would saturate it no one would be using the free sets given out to 1,000s.

Cause traffic is KING

Absolute rubbish!!!

Conversion and retention are KING & QUEEN.

A million hits an hour will not make you a penny unless it stops somewhere to buy something. Unless you are a traffic broker selling clicks. :1orglaugh

The surfer is looking for content, he stops when he see content, he looks again when he sees content he likes, he thinks about buying because he likes the content, he buys because he likes the content, he stays and rebills because he loves the content. In what part of this scenario is traffic king?

The answer is simple, when you have built the site full of the best content you can get. This depends on budget and skills of selecting porn. Then the more traffic you send the more sign ups you get.

Of course if you have a bucket with a hole and no skills to repair it, one of the ways to fill the bucket is to increase the water flow. The bigger the hole the bigger the water flow needed to fill it.

Could be why so many sites retain for only two months.

I want to read more but 1st come to mind is What makes good content is Energy of sex...You call it sexy or or not sexy...Why Pauls Content is good,becuase he has right motivation...He LOVES girls..many fotografers even the ones shooting for me DO IT FOR MONEY..and that makes pics not sexy..When I shoot myself i am as good as Paul becuase i like what i do and do not care about money...It is like Black Square of Malevich why it is great becuase the guy was high with his Art..Same with Paul he is high with what he does and that what metters...Same applies to our content

Well the free sets ofte wont get listed as free sites as watermarked mostly anyway. Galeries will get listed no probs -content does the rounds a lot more. Anyway, minor issue, was just making the point that there is no absolute to "saturation", it is relative to marketing technique, site, program and perspective.

Key Point...
Programs pushing large volumes of traffic often rely content flexibility, speed of delivery and lower relative cost of shooting content.
This does facilitate creativity in terms of niche exploitation.
You can bang out loads of unqiue sites exploiting new niches all the time keeping both surfer and affiliate amused. Its hard to follow this business model with store or higher priced custom work.

Very true. What some people fail to see is creating porn is not about pointing a camera at a naked girl or couple. Some buy content on price and convenience ignoring the reason their clients are buying totally, which is how much porn is in the shoot.

Eva has a gift at shooting porn, she will "Seduce" the model while shooting her. This is normal for a porn shooter. Our job is to get a model who has little to no intentions of fucking anyone to look like he/she would fuck the world for a pizza.

Tough job sometimes, but when you visit a porn convention and see the pornographers you usually see them with models hung on their arms. The reason is more than the money we pay them, they like us and this comes through in the shoot. Eva is 27 years younger than me and happy after 8 years together, so I reckon I still have it as well. :1orglaugh

And this carries through to the shoot, so when the consumer looks at the model he sees the relationship between the model and the shooter. Does she/he look like they're waiting for a bus, looking for the exit or about to fuck someone to a standstill?

This is tough to achieve if your trying to shoot a set as a race, on a limited budget or lack the basic skills and talent. But this is what all our customers are paying for. Admittedly the harder you abuse the model the less you need this rapour which might explain why so much on the Net is Extreme. But the big market is in the "Sex is fun, enjoyable and I'm ready forYOU" niche.

The surfer is usually jerking off to the fantasy that the models will let him join in or doing it for them. Deleiver that fantasy and watch your numbers grow. Don't and then build the traffic side to earn a living, do both and then you are on your way to making money, even in todays over crowded Adult Net. Becasue the crowds are at the other end.

We all sell content, FULL STOP.

Think of increasing your conversion by 10%
Your retention by 10%
Your traffic by 10%
Your affiliates by 10%

How much is that worth?

All because the surfer sees something that turns him on.

Problem is if the content is not the best that can be obtained the tour ratios will suck. No one will join becasue the girl loos pissed off yet is in the sites branded T Shirt.

Yes cross sales are another good way of making money and for some a good solution. But is there more profit in keeping them on your site and happy rather than sending them some where else? We have other sites banners inside our site and believe strongly in this sale, but would rather keep them for longer on ours. Running at an average of 3 months on the paysite but I would love to get that higher.

Obviosly if you have it exclusive you own the content, Adult.com have gone into the DVD market and will make money from their exclusive content that way.

Yeah its just the way it seems to have gone really. I have no doubt there will be an evening up as with any fluctuation, sufer will get bored of Tshirts etc and b2b supply will change to focus on getting them in.
Us consumer market is quite fickle and will jump on new niches quite eagerly.

DVD market is one of many channels peopel can go in with exlcusives and im surprised more dont focus on high budgets for shooting and convert web shot episodes to DVD release (as well as PPV/VOD, Phone etc).

I believe as more and more people offer quality porn, and that does always not mean the quality of the photography, others will have to improve or drop back. Improvement is usually forced on suppliers by one stepping up the pace and the rest following. Then another jumps in front and the cycle starts again.

This is a young delivery method of porn and we have to look back at what was being delivered to members as little as 5 years ago. The changes are enormous in the level of professionalism, delivery and content. It will continue and those who think cutting the budget on content will soon learn otherwise.

generally i agree but its still possible to get moderate supply of quality for a moderate price with sufficient contact esepcially owners of sites doing well on their own rights who shoot their own.

It also has to do with this. I have hundreds of DVD producers wanting to give me their DVDs for sale on Content Palace. Most don't even care what I sell it for as long as it sells. Most of it has never ever been offered to webmasters, has not been seen by surfers and is good as exclusive for the time being. At around 70 dollars per New Release DVD Webmasters can buy this stuff all day long and never have to think about paying for exclusive material.

http://www.contentpalace.com/images/logo.jpg

creative spam

This was an interesting read

Agreed, some of the prices being offered for exclusive is a joke. We're currently giving content to magazines for "Advitorial" on our paysite. They show the set, talk up the video and I get the joins.

Seems an avenue many sponsors have not thought of.

Not really creative spam - I am trying to make a point. But at my age making points is pointless. I let the younger people do that.

You do bring up another good point in the Exculsive and Non debate.

A brand new set will not be seen by anyone and in it's first three months at proper prices is never going to be saturated. So we are selling DVD quality hardcore scenes for $60. compare this with an exclusive of less quality at $2,000.

Non exclusive you can deliver 33 scenes, unseen by members. Exclusive you deliver 1. I wonder which method retains the best?

This is obviously assuming your site niche will fit what is being offered.

I shoot everything for my site... but it sure would be nice to have a source to go to for content sometimes.

My paysite is so "niche" that suitable stock doesn't really exist for me...

Simply from a time management standpoint, having an exclusive content shooter in some European country might be attractive as long as costs aren't prohibitive.

It can be quite time consuming just dealing with models, planning shoots, etc... let alone marketing and promotion.

"Content is king" was the key phrase years ago, and it's still true.

DVD content is great too (except for stills/design of course)

I still say you can bribe shooter/site owner to run you off a few cheaky handjob sets and they serve their purpose well -especially for promo sets :)

Custom video content is cheap because the "shooters".....

- Have next to zero equipment costs. They use a handy cam and use the on-board omni mic so you can hear the camera guy talking/breathing louder than the model. I use mics that cost more then the cameras these guys use and the difference in sound is night and day.

-Many of them use hot lights during the video shoot and the models have to suffer through it. Not exactly a recipe for getting a great scene from your talent. I use natural light with fill from daylight temp Kino Flos to keep the talent cool as cucumbers. Kinos are expensive and you can build your own to save money but of course you have to factor in your time spent building them and tracking down high CRI rated bulbs. ( I am certainly not saying hot lights are cheap. Obviously HMIs are expensive and hot lights in general are fine in a cold environment or if the A/C is turned on)

- Don't hire a make-up artist (or use a cheap one). I always have a good make- up artist and pay them extra to stay the entire scene during my lesbian shoots to constantly touch up the models during their breaks from pussy licking.

- Don't have any location expenses because they just use a room in their house or office which has a ugly couch (or worse - a bed) pushed up against a white wall. I use real locations that look great on camera and also bring in props.

-They hire a video editor and pay them an low hourly rate and of course the end product suffers.

-They crank out scenes like McDonalds cranks out hamburgers. Every scene is the same "What is your name" "How old are you", "Where are you from", etc.

-Don't spend time actually "casting". They just throw any 2 available people together without any concern for how hot the scene will be. When I shoot lesbian scenes I work hard in pairing the girls with other girls they REALLY WANT to fuck. The same goes for my b/g scenes but to a lesser extent.

Now, I am not criticizing content guys for shooting scenes like they do. In fact I envy them. I am seriously thinking about shooting scenes the same way because I would make a TON of money compared to taking my time in trying to create something that is above average in quality.

It seems in the content biz that professional photography is valued greatly but professionally shot video is rare and not expected. Most of the video guys just use handy cams set on "full auto" mode and of course it turns out looking and sounding like a home video.

I have had a recent client tell me "This is the best custom content I have ever bought". You don't get feedback like this from using the McDonalds philosophy. But of course you have to respect the fact that a good restaurant located next to a McDonalds makes less money even though their product is much better.

I am seeing a change in the attitude of some program owners recently. I guess because this biz has become more competitive the program owners are taking more of an interest in higher quality video content. Paying an extra $400 -$500 a scene to get a product that is noticeably better than what you competition has might just pay off great dividends in the future. :2 cents:

It can be shot, the discussion is usually around how much you will pay and how much the shooter wants.

Hit me up on ICQ if you want to take this further.

I love you. :thumbsup

This is how I shoot magazines sets, but then they make $3,000 to $6,000 a scene and we know doing it MacDonalds style will make $0000.

Working for the Internet is slightly different, it's a fine balance between cost and return.

You love me? You REALLY love me?

Ok, I will move over there and you can just put me to work while you take a break and enjoy he good life. How about that? :upsidedow

Seems good to me.

One of the biggest problems with having a paysite is competition from other sites and sponsors. Every day a new sponsor seems to pop up and try their luck, few succeed and fewer dent the big guys. But some take some business and the over all effect hurts the big guys.

But the entry level bar is slowly being raised and it's getting harder and harder to start a site. Imagine an Adult Internet that delivered content on a quality level that newbies could not compete with. The market would be dominated by a very few, so I suppose keeping the level of content low helps many.

The magazine biz is the other way around, shooters are retiring, new guys can't shoot to the level or fund the production and our sales are soaring. Because magazines will not publish 90% of what they get sent the elite suppliers are left to cash in.

Too cold now though, I will wait till spring time. :1orglaugh

This thread makes me laugh...

Almost everybody has two stories, about his shootings and about "some other shooters"... Of course that "other shooters" have bad equipment, don't have assistants (makeup or any other), they shoot in small rooms, etc, etc...
C'mon ppl, use the names or I will start to think that those stories are from experience, not from observing... j/k

I shoot only custom/exclusive. I don't make my prices regarding to prices of other shooters, I make my prices regarding to my expenses. I can't say am I "cheap" or "expensive", but I'm sure that my content is "niiiceee"...

http://www.mikescontent.com/inside/200509/hard002.jpg

Still, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm actually bad shooter...

Paul, Please can you Bcc those numbers to me as well ;)


And something "off topic"... When I see sometimes how ugly chicks some of shooters post here with comments like "Hot next-door model ? (name goes here)", or something similar and 100's of ass licking comments (Wow, Yeah, I would hit that whole day, etc) in those threads, I'm thinking that this board needs some serious "Fake nick" purgatory (yes, I know, no names, lol)...

OK, I'm off to shoot, see ya' later guys!

Of course there are always two sides to a debate and in this one there are many more.

But the truth is non exclusive would make the shooters a lot more money than exclusive if non exclusive is saturated as they claim.

As for selling to magazines well I doubt if you can, it's a tough field and the rejection rate is 90%. Reasons to reject your set if the rest were like that would be as follows, to plain for standard, the setting is not good enough, thew girl is not teen to fit that market either, not enough energy for amateur, the guy on the left has a belly and spots, the curtains and cushion are screaming Eastern Europe.

You would also have to shoot it on film as most of the majors still only accept film, can you light for film?

These sold to magazines on film.

2001

1746

1771

Slightly different market to selling on the Internet. Not saying you're not a bad shooter just that you need to do things differently to get the magazines business.

But if you want their business buy a magazine, shoot some sets similar to what they publish and the telephone numbers are in the magazines. They will speak to you, but you have to have something to submit to them.

I price according to the sets value, not according to my costs.

DAMN, Mr_No, that's a hot pic. :thumbsup

HAHAHAHA... ROTFLMAO
I'm sorry man, but this is too much funny...

My picture doesn't have energy? Shooted on cheap set?
Btw, pic which I posted is not retouched, just resized and compressed...

Don't get me wrong, but...
You sold this set - 2001 - for 1000's of dollars to some magazine?
Shooted on cheapest piece of furniture which you can find in Ikea, with $10 cassette player in background (just from your sample image I see that, plus that picture is so badly framed you have 30% of that picture empty on right side, plus it is overexposed, etc. I'm not even going to talk about shadows, or skin color, and looks of male model)...
I'm sorry, if that is what I need to achieve in order to publish I would need to give camera to my hmm, let?s say, makeup artist... On the other hand, for that amount of money, I?m willing to learn, so tomorrow, I will ask her for first lesson. I will keep you guys informed about my progress! j/k

That you said, I sold this set 20 years ago, I would say, yeah that is it... But you still shoot like 20 years ago, no difference... Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that "today's" market is very different than market 20 years ago...

:2 cents:

Thanks man! I'm happy to hear that you see something which Paul can't see... :thumbsup

I know your photos are very good. I have been on your site before and checked it out. I don't think I have ever seen any video from you though.

Must be nice working with those Hungarian models. They are a completely different breed :thumbsup

I not been shooting all to long, but I do know coordinating shit is alot of work and the drama behind the scenes plays a factor in the effort.
It makes me wonder what was easier design webmastery or content production.

None the less since we starting to post pics now...

http://www.ialien.com/kaylademo/promo/sam13.jpg

I am not sure what is better at this point exclusive shoots or none exclusive, so I will do both till I am sure.

Nice shot! I love those Hungarian babes!

Cheers

I got out of the exclusive game a long time ago. If I don't make a grand at least per shoot then what a waste of time and finding buyers of exclusive for that price is not so easy or never has been..

Now I sell DVDs from big name producers for $79.00, $69.00 and even $59.00 each and everybody is happy. Me, the producer and the webmasters. I think that exclusives should get more expensive in the future as the number of guys who can do them will be less..

For now my deal with the http://www.contentpalace.com site is going great. I could not be happier.

Hey buddy, Thanks! Unfortunatelly (or contrary), last six months I didn't have time to put new previews (or models) on my site, so everything which you can see there is more or less "old" work, but I have in plan to redesign whole site and I hope in couple of weeks that task will be done!

Yeah, working with Hungarian girls is nice, though girl in the pic which I posted is Czech model, and for hard, they are maybe even better ;)

One of my clients (for which I shoot only solo and masturbation vids) thinks that I make better videos than photos, so you tell me, lol...

About my "hard" video work, I still can't reveal for who I shoot, because I shoot exclusive for them atm, and we have that agreement (and I'm happy with that, of course)...

One more time, Thanks! :thumbsup