I'm sorry to tell you Fletch but you are incorrect. It does not hinder retention. Yes, some members may not rebill because they have the DVD now but many don't buy DVD's, they would have cancelled anyway, others stay around for more DVD's, etc..

Retention changes because the site changes, updates, layout, speed, etc.

You guys have your panties so tight you cant sense sarcasm.

I did say that having to many upsells would change things :) Paysite owners can't oversell upsells in the members area or it will kill the site.

Really though, I think you would be amazed at the amount of paysites that only allow one or two video downloads at a time. That shit, kills retention.

Sorry Fletch.. Freakin Ninja and his stupid posts got me going.

You are hilarious. Try to pass off your poor profit margins to someone else. :1orglaugh

what do we learn here? a poster's post count is not necessarily a sign of quality. get a clue!

I dont see how this is a problem. AOL pays for referring new members. Do they pay on all the shit they try to sell their members? Same for many many huge businesses. We dont have any reason to get % of DVDs or toys we didnt sell them.

Buddy, you are part of the reason programs have small profit margins. Take your self referring self and go scam someone else.

I don't have poor profits, I have webmasters that push my sites and then my own traffic.. you don't see people posting trash about my program cause my shit converts and retains.

Affiliate programs have small profit margins? That is news to me :) I've seen some pretty damn high profit margins

You are a damn fool. You made a big fuss about how small 10% margins are. I haven't referred myself to shit and I don't whore all the resources you were bitching about earlier. I send traffic that converts and expect to get paid on it when I do not to have the customer I could have sent anywhere given a pile of shit he can buy instead.

I'm sorry you must rely heavily on TGP submitters who can't do shit for themselves, really I feel sorry for you. :1orglaugh

lol, I was so lost in trying to spin our uniqueness that I was deaf to the sound of the sarcasm dripping on my head... my apologies.

No way dude, they all drive motorcycles to save money and live in the ghetto because they love taking care of those darn TGP guys so much. We need to set up a collection in fact.

It's all good.

I was pissed when I made the thread.

And we all know threads like this are good for 3 pages at least :)

Are you a total moron? WTF does this post mean?

I didn't make a big fuss, I stated a fact.. Your brain must have the slow switch on. And you are the one that stated in another post about referring yourself.

Why would you feel sorry for me? I will take TGP traffic all day, I don't have any problems converting it.. Personal traffic, I don't think I have any TGP traffic that I can remember.

Go read the thread numbnuts. I bitched about them complaining of someone referring themselves. I've never done it myself. You said way back on the first page that the poor paysite owners only have a 10% margin, blah blah blah. I said you were ignoring too much and 10% is bullshit which spawned this other arguement. What type of car do you drive on your 10% margins?

Profit, take home, clear.. 10% is pretty damn good.. So lets say 10 as a low and 20% as a high as I stated..

AFTER all bills? If you make 500k a month, you CLEAR.. $50k-$100k a MONTH..
It takes volume, but that is still some damn good money each month to have clean in the bank account..

Webmaster traffic at that, not in house, self promoted, self drove traffic.

What kind of car.. What does my car have to do with it? We have one car, a family SUV.. Two kids and a wife that can't drive.

How about this, I have ZERO dept.. House, car, credit cards, etc.. all paid off. Well I have $300 on my CC from golf, my bad..

Would you like to compair cock sizes too?

Free longterm branding and a home for your own traffic + 10% on all affiliates. Sounds like pretty solid business to me. :)

Bro, you are complaining with some know it all fuck who joined less than 2 months ago.

We've both been in this business long enough to know this type doesn't last very long in this business.

Water off a ducks ass. Fuck him.

Did you forget you were complaining about the small 10% you make on affiliates one page back? You have all that on your little ole 10% which was my entire point.

Btw regarding the DVD issue my uninformed opinion is that it probably wont hurt retention. Maybe it is one small factor that might tip the scale over from average to poor retention.

Anyway, always interesting to see what sponsors do with our revshare traffic once it is inside their site. I have seen some horrible traffic theft in my days although things look better now overall IMO.

I joined in 2002 which has fuck all to do with your buddy trying to blow smoke up everyones ass. Just because the entire paysite model is a big secret doesn't mean those with common sense don't know what in the hell is going on. Your "bro" already changed his argument around anyhow.

10% on affilates isn't bad, after bills are paid.. And my money is made from my own traffic and my plugin content. Webmaster traffic is icing on the cake.

And I didn't change my argument and the paysite business isn't a big secret.. It's pretty damn easy just a lot of work. Yet the profit margin is why so many fail, they think it is bigger than what it really is. If anything it has a better potental to making a higher gross which would mean your net earnings would be bigger number but not a larger %.

Funny, my eyes show 2005. I must be going blind. Or maybe yours are.

What you fail to understand, due to your own stupidity is that 10% profit margin on 500k is 50k. I have no idea what The Doc's program is doing, but I do know that he has been around longer than you, paying his affiliates day in, and day out.

Now, kindly stfu. You have no idea what you are talking about.

You don't even know what you are arguing about. :1orglaugh Start from first page, read top to bottom, and blow it out your ass. :upsidedow

Fuck off Noob

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

I love you too sunshine but you don't even seem to grasp the point I was arguing. I don't blame you though since your friend flipped his story half way through.

All I hear from you is:
"Blah Blah Blah I've never run a program, Blah Blah Blah, I'm talking out of my ass, Blah Blah Blah, I'm a Newbie Supernova, Blah Blah Blah."

I don't care what you are arguing, for the simple reason that you are a nobody.

Thank you, now go find someone to buy your shit scripts from 1999.

You know absolutely nothing about me because that is the way I keep it on the boards. Please tell me your not associated with the company in your sig, I would hate to have to go pull links because of an idiot that can't even see he agrees with me in the same paragraph he's talking shit in.

Wow, how novel, the "I'm going to pull traffic" threat.

Y A W N

So are you associated with them or not? Like I said you know nothing about me. Simple question, I could give a shit what you think about it. I'm not some TGP hustler with a few hundred shit clicks a day and I will not send traffic to a jackass that doesn't even know which way he's arguing while slinging insults in my direction. Answer the question please.

You are nobody. Serioulsy. You are no hitter, and I'm really scurred you are gonna pull traffic.

Oh no... Where's my teddy bear?

I can't believe the shit that comes on GFY nowadays. Some guy in 2 months, who does 15 posts a day, thinks he knows it all, tries and fails to back me down by him taking away non existant traffic.

Please. I was pissing with idiots with more money, traffic, and brains before you decided to join 2 months ago.

To answer your question, Anthony is associated with our program. If you want to pull your traffic as a result of this thread, that is your choice and feel free to do so.

Yep, I'm a nobody. I also don't know anyone in this business and don't work closely with many program owners. The same program owners that don't send me on paid vacations with all accomodations paid halfway across the world because my traffic is so shitty.

I'll admit, I only send you a few SE hits currently but your program is definately crossed off the list. It's a damn shame too considering what we've got going on over the next few months.

Just a little FYI for you. I've never liked people to know too much about me on the boards but I work with some of the most well respected large programs around. Except for a select few, they don't even know my GFY nickname. I have no reason to be in the public eye and choose not to be. I'm here for fun, but what goes on behind the scenes is all business. Enjoy your freehosted gallery whores and talking wildly out of your ass when you have no clue who is on the other end of the conversation.

It would take you 10 seconds to find out the nickname I posted under before this one. I stayed away for the most part until the last few months because I had nothing to gain by being here. This nick was registered in coordination with the script site.

You will never have to worry about my non existant traffic because you won't see another click. What you fail to realize is you were arguing my point from the time you jumped in the conversation but you had your dick in too big of a twist because of your friend.

As for how much money I have, if only you knew who the fuck I was some of your friends would be able to tell you what they pay me every month.

Great post Fletch. Some good points in this thread.

I signup for paysites in stealth mode every week, sometimes two a week. I don't ask for password access, I buy my way in. Currently I have five recurring paysites on my CC. I inspect the members areas and see if the sponsor program delivers on what they promise on the tours. We've heard it all. Daily updates, exclusive high quality content, bla, bla, bla.

I'm a pretty big pervert with high expectations for what I get with my dollar, so if the member area satisfies my perverted cravings, then I'm confident it will for my surfers as well.

I do this before sending traffic. It takes months before being able to determine accurately whether or not the paysite is recurring members as they should. By then, thousands of hits are lost and who knows how much cash.

When I inspect the members areas, I'm mostly concerned with the amount of content, site navigation, speed, site updates, and quality of the content. I think these are the most important aspects for member retention. A members area loaded with confusing links that lead to upsells is also taken into consideration. A members area that ranks well in all the above criteria, and has a few dvd upsell links, I don't consider it a big deal.

I've ran across some excellent member areas with frequent updates and great content, and some very poor ones that never update with the only hope for member retention is the surfer forgetting to cancel the recurring charge. They just seemed to have disappeared from the face of the earth.

Also, as a pervert, I'm not interested in any DVD's. I bought my way in for access to the paysites movie content that I can download and make my own DVD's. If a paysite has 300 movies for download, why would I be concerned with spending more money on a DVD? This is just my opinion from a perverted surfers perspective. Be interested in any real numbers on this....

Oh wow, earlier you were talking about how you were this big hitter and that you weren't the normal run of the mill tgp gallery maker maker.

What's this?! You've only sent a few SE hits, but you are a player?! :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Yah, you really showed me. You showed everyone in this thread. You attacked THe Doc, one of the good guys in this industry, because you wanted to know what kinda car he drives off his earnings with his paysites, coming off as pure jealousy.

Bottom line is, if you think you can do it better, it's all out there for you to try. I even looked up your program name.

http://www.ninjanobodybucks.com is available.

We'll be okay without your 2 Search Engine Hits a month, thanks buddy. For everyone else, we payout 40bucks a signup, all day, every day.

10%%???????? What are you guys doing wrong? Does anyone else think that is normal?

I've seen 40-50% out there

There you go again, your reading comprehension must be low. I asked Doc what kind of car he drives because he was bitching about 10% being all a paysite made. I was proving my point that 10% is plenty and only the tip of the iceberg in what an affiliate is worth.

Also, I only send you a few SE hits a month now because we aren't actively promoting your sites. There were a couple that were in our unlaunched program though, and I will gladly remove them before we go live.

Good job arguing the same point I was and losing an affiliate in the process. I'm sorry you don't comprehend simple English enough to see past your nuts.

Blah?

Blah blah blah blah?

Blah blah, blah blah blah!

Depends on how you setup your program and work your plan. MarcDe had an excellent thread on here on breakdown and program payouts.

Interesting you bring him up. :1orglaugh

Lets figure this out..

100,000k a program makes each month minus its own promotion/traffic from in house sources. Remember we are talking about webmasters and traffic they produce from sales or branding through type-ins / return visits.

15% of the money is type-in traffic, not counting self promo traffic as I said.
So the program earns an extra net of $15k

So we start with $85,000
60% to webmasters $51k paid out
We are left with $34,000

$6,000 to bandwidth
$15,000 to content (5 sites x $3k per site)
Total $21,000

$34,000-$21,000 = $13,000

5 sites, 10 galleries a week for each site $20 a gallery
$2,500 in galleries + $500 for extra BS like banners / ads
$3,000 for one or two employees being a cheap ass
$500 a month for a low point for rent and business costs
$2,000 each month for one GFY ad, no ads in other places
Total: $8000

$13,000 left over - $8000 = $5000
$5000 net + $15k from type-ins = $20000

So we ended with 20% net, with type-in traffic, and being very cheap on bills. We didn't pay the owner yet either.... oh shit.. and taxes.. yeah, fucking taxes.

Any questions?

Why do you think so many big & small companies have started to go over seas, drop staff, drop offices, etc..

It's wide spread and starting to happen very fast.. Because the NET isn't as great as everyone seems to think it is. In house traffic makes up a huge amount, years of being around, a great site with amazing word of mouth can really make numbers jump. But lets face it, most programs don't have a BangBus.

Yeah on the millions of dollars level that is a great profit margin :) Not on a smaller scale.

if you dont like it build your own.

I was wondering if anyone was going to catch that :)

hehe, and the follow up...

I don't know if I agree with what made you start this thread, but it was amusing.

hundo!!!

LOL, I love the NON PROGRAM OWNERS arguing with ACTUAL PROGRAM OWNERS about "what works" and what "margins really are". And lecturing them about how it's a raw deal that affiliates already take home the lion's share of the profits.

Until you own, and run, your own program, at a PROFIT, then shut the fuck up.

Can't believe anyone is seriously arguing with TheDoc in this thread...my my...everybody's an expert on running a profitable program because they submit a few galleries and do some MySpace profiles each month. :1orglaugh

Not talking to you Fletch. :)