Non US Webmaster's view on 2257
 

There seems to be a lot of animosity between US webmasters and non US webmasters over 2257. People seem to be getting angry that non US citizens are taking your new 2257 regulations a little lighter than some of you would like.

As a Canadian, I'm sorry your government was able to pass such a ridiculous law. I stand with you in fighting it, and I'll even help fund Free Speech Coalition to everybody's benefit. Please try to understand if non Americans could make these laws vanish, we would without a doubt.

That being said, I will bind my business by the laws of the land that I live in and operate my business out of, Canada. Much as I won't be bound by China's laws banning pornograhphy all together. I refuse to be made a record keeper by the US DOJ. I'm sorry this upsets some US webmasters but that's really out of my control. Please don't confuse this as disrespect for your plight.

Please understand as a non US webmaster, I have all kinds of other challenges. It's more difficult for me to setup with third party billers and I pay much higher taxes, to name just a few. :2 cents:

What he said.... 100% :thumbsup

If you reside in the US, why would you not just incorporate a company in a different country and have your hosting in a different country, would you then have to comply with 2257

Just a question

Batts

well said WarChild..

That won't work. And it seems MUCH simpler for webmasters to comply don't you think? I can guarrantee you that at least 75% of US webmasters are small time, doing this for EXTRA income because they have "real" jobs and are making under $1000 a month. Why bother going through all that crap?

good post!

Yes, there is a way to do it so that the company is not traceable to a US owner. Easy google search.

You may have no choice as many sponsors may close your account if you refuse to comply :(

On the other hand, I'd like to see Canadian producers giving out personal info on content girls without breaking our law. :winkwink:

Good post

only thing we need to be aware of, is that sponsors don't allow usage of hardcore content on galleries anymore, like Karups...

But I'm sure there will be enough sponsors that will allow this, as long as you're not from the US.. at least that's what I hope :Graucho

Why do you make excuses ?

American webmasters are not happy ? Fuck them !

Americans think they can rule the world. Did I hear anyone feel sorry when we, canadians, coudn't find a billing processor ?

Nope... But many were finding the situation quite funny.. Less competitions...

Do I find this law ridiculous ? Sure ! Will I makes excuses because I don't have to respect that stupid law ? No way !

Well I assume this has something to do with me because if the misunderstanding that I'm jealous or hate non-US webmasters. Quite untrue. I've tried to explain the whole POINT of my posts and if you still don't get it too bad. I'm rally tired of explainng myself when it was a VERY simple point. If there is any hatred it's non-US webmasters at Americans for "supposedly" trying to tell them what to do. Which to my knowledge NO American here including myself did.

Simple fact is if you don't comply and someway somehow you COULD get into trouble and do WTF do I care? If half the American webmasters stopped doing this because of 2257, WTF do I care? Less competition.

So it can be done, so why wouldent the bigger guys like lightspeed ect all incorporate elsewhere and host eleswhere then nothing changes

Batts

Honestly, I've spoken to most of my large sponsors, and they've all said business as usual so far.

:thumbsup :thumbsup

"So far" is the key phrase. Who knows what will happen until AFTER June 23.

Nicely said !

So you agree with acting like an asshole? Hmmm. Real professionalism there. Someone decide to act like a mature adult and you chide him for that?

Gator

Do you think these small-timers want to publish a 2257 page with their home address?

R-E-S-P-E-C-T well said, and I'm an american.

Only one consideration: if you decide to not provide the records, I think US webmasters cannot use your content for promoting your stuff.

In the end its all about making money. So its sad that some programs you made good money with, are offering non-converting promo material or, in worst case, close their sites.

I sell gfy lawyers! Act now for your special offer on the worlds best gfy lawyer GatorB!!

No and if they don't they need to find another source of income. I'm sure they don't want to pay taxes either( who does ) doesn't mean you can't.
Some guy making $250 amonth is not going to go thru all that crap off offshore shit when it most likely won't exempt him anyways. So instead of the DOJ let's get the IRS on his ass. Much better.

It has nothing to do with this...it has everything to do with non-us webmasters thinking this will have zero effect on them.

You cannot expect this to not have a rippling effect throughout the industry...I am not saying it will be huge, small whatever. I'm not psychic I cannot predict the future if I could I wouldn't be slinging porn.

However my point being as has always been in everyone of these discussions is there will be some effect...how big only time will tell.

How? Think in terms of B2B for one.

You at some point may be limited in who you can and cannot promote..companies may become too restrictive to your liking. That can and will have an effect on you.

There are a lot of smaller people in this biz...small businesses and medium businesses who will fall to the way side.

That means less webmasters buying traffic, buying designs, buying content, hosting etc. That will happen industry wide, it just won't be US webmasters.

When the non-us sponsors become over saturated, or can't keep up with some of the already established monster programs where do you go?

People need to open their eyes and realise that this will change things for awhile.

Yep. Sponsors have to do what they feel is in their best interests. If any affiliate gets mad at them because of that he/she is just clueless.

You think it's hard to set up with third party billers now? LOL

Your choices have become limited to only using European processors..because I guarantee you before it's all over with if you are using any US based processors you are going to have to be compliant whether you live in the US or on Mars.

Live in Canada and moving all my servers to Canada. I don't want to do pull my servers out of the states but have to. Hopefully there will be some sane amendments to the new 2257 rules in the near future.

I'm actually setting up a biller right now. It's been better to use an EU company, for a Canadian, for awhile now.

With the introduction of Paycom's EU billing solution, no Visa registration fee or compliance check (read long delays) and now 2257, billing in the United States simply isn't a good option for Canadians.

hey steve , hit me up 137469529 . THanks :thumbsup

I'm with this guy. Fuck 'em.

They elected these asses, it's not a fucking dictatorship quite yet. Their ignorance and complacency in electing a group of radicals has already hurt millions of people around the world, it may as well bite some of them in the ass too. Well, I suppose, in addition to the couple hundred thousand who have already lost their jobs, and the thousands who are getting fucked because of the new bankruptcy laws. And gays. And immigrants. And the poor. And the sick.

We are set up in EU as well :thumbsup . Its funny I remember when i told people we were doing this , lots responded like we didn't know what we were doing and suggested its way better to set up in US .

Fight the powers that be..fuck the man holding you down

uhm i think its pretty fucking obvious that non us wm's shouldnt give a fuck about it...

Like I've said in other threads. I'm waiting this one out to see what happens.

Do your homework... there are a few ways to slip around this if one were so inclined.

US billers can't check for compliance.

HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWLING LAUGHTA!!

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

:banana :GFYBand :banana

as a US webmaster I hope you post 10 times more free porn to make up for what us US webmasters can no longer do

I know it's hard for people to rap their heads around, but...

The US government has decided that if you sell porn to US citizens on US soil -- you have imported goods that are subject to US laws/trade laws/tariff laws (such as 2257).

It's no different than importing other goods or services, which are subject to US law.


Agreed you have little to worry about when it comes to your foreign government extriditing you or filling charges...

The fact remains in the US you are considered a smuggler and probably should not set foot on American soil.



(Not that I agree.)

I know it's hard for people to rap their heads around, but...

The US government has decided that if you sell porn to US citizens on US soil -- you have imported goods that are subject to US laws/trade laws/tariff laws (such as 2257).

It's no different than importing other goods or services, which are subject to US law.


Agreed you have little to worry about when it comes to your foreign government extriditing you or filling charges...

The fact remains in the US you are considered a smuggler and probably should not set foot on American soil.



(Not that I agree.)

Yeah on US soil. But if your server is outside US, then it is the buyer who import datapackets, and is responsible for his own actions, not the seller. Thats the nature of internet, and the US government can not suddenly "decide" that it doesn't work that way....

Actually it's been decided in many court cases, not just in the US, that the website is considered to exist where it is downloaded. In other words, if an American visits youjr site then your site can be deemed to be on US soil in a court of law, regardless where you or the server are located. There have been many precedents on this. I'm not making it up.

I couldn't agree more with what you said Warchild....

Actually it's the person buying the subscription who is the smuggler. They've crossed international borders and brought something that resides in the netherlands and downloaded it onto US soil.

They just did.


Don't mistake my comments for tacit agreement.

That's the way the regs read and my advice to foreigners that ignore the regs and continue to sell to US consumers in violation of US law is to not set foot on US soil.





I'm not arguing your point.

double post

interstate though right? Anyways.. there is no duristiction over someone following the law of their own country so...

Actually -- this is an area of international/trade law that is yet to exist.


But I see your point... it all depends on where governments consider the POS.

It appears the US government considers the POS in the US as it pertains to our conversation (US citizens purchasing content to download within US borders).

if I sell porn using US billing - yes, in this case I sell it on US soil...
if I sell porn using EU billing, so, it is an EU soil...

Sorry it's you -- but Christ almighty.

Do you honestly think that you could import cars in violation of US law (to the US and say, "hey -- it's legal here"?)? Hookers? Beer? Weapons? Kids toys? Beef?

Wait -- I get it. Data packets are not subject to trade agreements, but everything else is...

I don't disagree with you. However, the DOJ does...


What have I said that's so horrid? Did I tell you to stop doing what you're doing? Did I try to convince you to stop doing something? I gave you the DOJ's stance and advised people not complying to avoid US soil.

I've neither voiced support or tacit agreement to their stance.