Does your income necessarily dictate whether you are a loser or a winner?
 

Does money really determine if one is a 'winner' or a 'loser'?

Can one be very poor but still respected and admired?

Yes, it does. :2 cents:

But not allways :2 cents: :2 cents:

I've had some very amazingly inciteful conversations with people who are homeless... they're losers to most, but they know stuff about life that most people will never know.

I'll hold them in higher regard than many self sentered, ignorant rich people.

The lesson is: Take what you can from everyone.

If only people with money were 'winners' then new born babies would be the biggest fucking losers in the world since they have no money, they don't even have clothes!

Damn loser babies!

I know a lot of people who inherited their wealth. Most of the them would be losers if they didn't have the advantage of being born into money.

Not always, but a lot

Can one still be a 'loser' even if he MADE his money?

Do you consider lottery winners to be 'winners'?

income is a sorry way to determine succes

says the poor man jk

How about:

Physical appearance? Not everyone is a Brad Pitt or a Catherine Zeta Jones or Denzel....

Compassion? Many people are victims and have a tough time reaching out of themselves....

Charity? Not everyone has money or time to spare....

Yes, lots of losers have money and that's all they have.

I strongly think that the use of visual markers like income is a hold over from America's Protestant beginnings. These were the same people that believed that if one was rich...one was divinely 'blessed' If one was poor, one had moral failings.

Same psychosocial mechanism in play re assigning moral blame for being 'fat'

yes :glugglug

It depends on the culture you're immersed in. If you live in an environment where people are vassals of Mammon, then yes it's a situation of dollars uber alles. Some countries in the western world are more immured in that mindset than others, but the bottom line is that the bottom line helps take you a long way to the winners' circle.

Yet as you probably already know, poor people can be great people. Mother Theressa was obviously not a loser, and she was pretty far from having the nickname 'blingqueen'.

It'd be pretty cool if she did have that nick, though. Saint Blingqueen has a nice, sacrilious ring to it... :thumbsup

How about the argument that MONEY BUYS RESPECT/CLASS?

I can understand dogmatic fundimentalists assigning a state of moral turpritude to obese people... they run afowl of that whole 'gluttony' sin thang.

Though, I find it highly ironic that the same people would beatify the rich when the accumulation of wealth is both one of those deadly sins (greed) AND has the Gen-u-wine Jesus Seal o' Doom(tm) with his words: "Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." (Matthew 19:24)

The massive dichotomies between ideals and actions like this are what make me recoil when most people start talking about religion.

1./ Money can buy your way though life, but you can not take it with you. To be classed a winner you would have to be able to cheat death.


2./ Respect in ones own self comes first.


Have a great day and sleep well rested my friend.

Very insightful post Richolio, I would like to add that this moral dichotomy is very AMERICAN and has spread far from its Protestant base. Compare the moralism vis a vis wealth (or the lack thereof) of Catholics and Jews in the US to their counterparts in other parts of the world. They all share the same low or suspect moral assignation to lack of material uplift.

Normally and globally (outside of US and protestant countries), the Catholic and Sephardic Jewish traditions do not view poverty as a sign of moral defect.

Money buys respect from people who respect money (or probably more appropriately, what money can do for them). Put a rich person in a situation where money is essentially meaningless (a sport, say, or something where brainpower is required) and all the cash in the world isn't going to get him props.

However, it can make more options available to people who want to take opportunities to improve themselves (ie. it can pay for international travel, or university education, or personal trainers, etc)... if they want to take em. A lot of rich people tend to just kind of waste time and grow moss on their brains; I don't anticipate Paris Hilton applying herself to get her MBA any time soon.

I've met more than one person with serious coin that couldn't have "class" beaten into them with a stick, no matter how pricey that stick happened to be. Chances are, you have too. :winkwink:

I value accomplishments. Achieving great wealth is one accomplishment, but it is only one. There are many things humans can accomplish in their life besides wealth that are impressive and worthy of respect.

Power and dominion is one. But given recent politics, it also takes money to achieve these.

How about artistic vision?

Or perhaps scientific innovation?

Or is it impossible....since almost all types of accomplishment is so suffused with commerciality that activities such as poetry are even tainted with commerce/a price tag?

A couple of things money can't buy: good taste & class.

Art and science are great accomplishments

One of my favorite books is a true story about a guy who has sailed around the world a few times in a crappy little sailboat. He's seen many things, met many people, appreciated a multitude of cultures. He doesn't have much money at all, but he's a winner in my books.

No it can't.
Having this said I'll probably be labeled loser by the rich guys :Graucho

In general, the biggest losers ARE the 'winners'. They have loads of money but no REAL friends and they are unhappy as hell.
In the end they die of some weirdass disease which even their money can't cure :)

Is money helpfull and can it make somebody happy? Yes...if someone makes a nice living and can take care of his family.


Money doesn't make somebody a loser or not.
One could call a somebody a winner if he is able to make a lot of money by working hard or being smart. Not the other way around (i.e. stealing the money, inheriting the money etc).

:2 cents:

Sounds like a line from a Honore de Balzac book detailing the social transformation of France (ie., land rich but cash poor nobles would say the same re the 'nouveau riche')

To my knowledge there's no negative connotations about the accumulation of wealth in the Ol' Testy, so jews are exempt from that particular hypocricy. To my best understanding, HAVING money isn't a problem so long as you share it around some when people are in need... that whole not-turning-away-a-traveller-at-your-door thing and so forth.

Christians have more rules dumped on top of em, so they have to reconcile old and new and come up with a workable hybrid. The church has been one of the most eggregious accumulators across the centuries (you wanna see pure, unadulterated bling? Check out the vatican sometime), so obviously they decided that the 'greed' sin was one of the more malleable ones.

I'll agree with you about the vilification of the poor being more of a new-world problem, although from what I understand those attitudes can be traced back to victorian england and, I'm sure, earlier days. TRUE christians are supposed to help anyone who needs help, and the poor are surely in need. There's a bunch of great quotes to that end... check it:

It doesn't get more straightfoward than that.

IMO, a loser is someone who gives up easily, has mediocre goals, doesnt follow through, and is lazy. Income has nothing to do with being a loser or winner.

So your thesis is CHARACTER is beyond 'loser' / 'winner' dichotomy?

Who was that masked man?? He stole mah teef!

no .
every one can pay to hosting company pay for design and there is no way he wont make money .

it depends what you want to achieve in life..

i don't care too much for money
cause money can't buy me love

:thumbsup

It sure buys a lot of PUSSY though:thumbsup

One thing you can say about CASH... you CAN measure it. How do you measure "class"? or "cool"? or "attitude"?

well I dunno I think some of the richest people are the biggest losers so yea it might do!

I dont think so, but it does tell people that you're succesfull.......

????

It all depends on your definiton of a winner or a loser.

Ain't that the truth. I don't care if you have your own Lear jet, if you treat others shitty, you're a loser.:glugglug

fair enough.

If you liked this thread, you will also like

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=278307 :Graucho

You figure? How?

ur on the icq man?

I guess it boils down to respect v money

Love people and use money
don't love money and use people.

How you treat people determines whether you are a winner or a loser.

Money is a tool and if you use it well you won't allow it to make you, it's tool. :2 cents:

Usually you can tell if someone is a loser just by talking to them for a min.

It depends on who's defining "loser or winner".
In others views, who knows and who cares? You have no control over that and never will.

What matters is if you feel that your own income is what defines you as a loser or winner to yourself.

Certainly not for me. Money relieves stress, thats about it.

:glugglug

of course, there's more to life than money

in this world, money = winner.