Design requests
 

Why the fuck do people looking for a designer and putting details about the job put everything but what they are willing to pay for a fucken design job?

Look...

I am pretty tired of detailed job requests that outline a job pretty well but WHY THE FUCK not just put down what you are willing to pay for the job?

Seriously it would be in your best fucken interest as to put down a design request for X amount of dollars. That will inspire designers to jump in and say they will do it for X price and then another may come along and do it for less.

Whats the matter with you "Marketing" guru's and sharp thinking business folk?

From another perspective its like the classified ad's for a fucking job where the company puts down tons of details about what is expected, virtually everything under the fucken sun then when ya get on the phone they are like, "Oh the job is awesome hows 35K a year starting sound?"

Just once I would like to say...
"What do you mean, how does 35K sound? Sounds like fucken shit! Your telling me that ya want all that crap for fucken bread crumbs! Eat a dick!"
Click.

What?
This topic to hot?
:1orglaugh

< -- Agrees

Can I order 2 empty alienware cases (area 51) from you? I realy love the looks of those but I don't think I can get them over here. :thumbsup

Btw your idea would be good for the clients, not for the designers :winkwink:

be thankful your getting detailed specs... instead of having to guess what they want every time.

Actually...
I am putting a little somthing together and negotiating with AlienWare on some things that will work as a promotion:):thumbsup

Please note todays word is
"Fuck" "Fucken" and "Fucker" thanks:Graucho

Hit me up when you guys decide to ship those cases. 123891112 :thumbsup

good points

LOL @ the want ad phone call

I'll bite.

Why do some designers cry so much ? You're providing the service. Tell the client what it will cost. How the hell is he supposed to know ? He isn't the designer. He doesn't know how long it will take or what your typical hourly rate or job rate is. Marketing has nothing to do with a designers pay rate. As the designer, shouldn't you have a much better idea what it would cost for your time based on his detailed specs ?

Exactly. :thumbsup

The problem with people these days is that they think everything is a service.

because no matter what they are going to try and get you to go the lowest, simple as that.

Good way to put it.

The best way to go now days is partner up with someone that will keep you busy for fair prices. So many designers try to gather clients with thier low prices, rather than with thier designs, and thats when they get trampled on.

Alien, if it isn't a service.. what is it ?

Fletch, we all make these decisions in life in almost everything we do. We choose to shop at a certain grocery store or buy a certain beer or car and price has a lot to do with making that decision. No one wants to pay more than necessary for anything. No one says "Damn this beer is good, I'm going to give you $10 even though you were only asking $5."

and ive ALWAYS ran my prices like a good dive bar!

heheh



:thumbsup

True, but there are so many more designers than there are profitable clients to partner up with. If a company has enough work to keep a designer busy, they can hire one in-house. This isn't always the case. Many designers can make a lot more money by taking on numerous clients than they would if they were exclusive to one company.

Ive had people pay more than what ive asked.

But your right, price has about 60% to do with the decision.
20% the design, and 20% they way the person presents themselves. Sound about right?

Thats true.

My point was more steady work and fairness of price.

When you going after many other clients and not staying in touch.
You money becomes feats and famine. You may make 1200 form one client 1 month, and only 200 from another, another month. Its obviously not so true for design companies, but for the single designers, they will say the same if they too are under the same circumstances.

So back to the point.

If a company said what they need and said the deal is for 500.00 bucks...

What do you think would happen on an open forum?

The price will go down.
There is a fear about saying how much a business is willing to pay when if they were up front about what they are willing to pay they will more than likely pay less than they are asking as a bid process will begin!

So why the fuck not just be upfront?

True. But thats also a window to take exactly that much from them.
Client: "We're willing to pay 400. How much do you think it will be?"

Designer: "$400.00"

Then the next post would theoretically be as follows...

I will do it for 350.00

Your right, on an open board it would.

That would get the client a assload of people to
choose from and know thier prices up front instead of
wading through emails, icq's and posts.

There is alot of behind the scenes bidding and counter-bidding, we all have price pages that clearly state our prices, I'm not sure why you think this bidding has to happen in public, especially when you mention that this would work against the designer??

As a designer I will not post in public a price lower than my price page, even though I give generous breaks often, then what's the point of a price page?

Back to the point ? Why ignore my comments ? I answered this, but you're avoiding it.

As the designer, *you* know more than the typical client would about what it would cost and how long it would take. Don't mistake fear for the client just having NO IDEA how long it will take or what it would/should cost.

design is a service, doesnt matter what way you look at it, you're providing a service to people who need it... whats the problem?

Exactly.

I think it's up to the designer to offer an initial price having been given the specs ( unless the designer is a; trying to get the maximum amount of $ from a client for the job, or b; providing work of higher or lower quality -within a framework of provided specs- depending on how much the client pays).

there is no problem

Hey Piksal, fix your sig up and use a 120x60 button like everyone else has to.

yours is 240x60

did i miss somethin?

yeah you missed something.... your sig is too big guy.

change it or its gonna get changed for you by the powrs that be.

Bhutocs sig is an allowed sponsors since they PAY TO advertise here... and can fly slightly larger graphics... you do not ;)

hahah

For specialty items I hate making price "offers". How in the hell do I know what your time is worth to you? Give me a quote, if I think your product and/or service is worth that I'll cut you a check. If I don't, I'll take business elsewhere.

Simple as that.

I wouldn't dare make an "offer" to you or Fletch or even Amp for that matter. I don't want to insult your skills.

When talking to a client I already know that just by talking to them they are willing to spend X amount of dollars for a project.
They keep that X amount dollars unknown when in all actuality they oughtah be upfront about it. Declaring a budget attracts business by nature.

The typical client knows what they are willing to spend and generally nothing else matters except the time for which it takes from start to finish.

If they bid to low the business would get alot more info about why there bid is to low plus I can not imagine many designers not willing to make a post stating the reasons why a price might be to low or why they might under bid the stated price if its a cake walk.


Thus why I didnt really answer ya questions bro:)

Also...
Assuming that the designer knows more than the client during discussions is usually takin with insult.
Assume that a designers knowledge no better than a business's knowledge its just not condusive to respect no matter how ya look at it.

Generally its not my job to educate a business and if it is I charge accordingly for that as well and outright say so.

yes I pay $500 a month to be a sponsor here and to be able to have a 240x60 banner, and newbs like you that don't understand how it works around here devalue the money i pay.

I see.
but was the hahah neccessary?

Im a noob just like everyone else has been.
I think you have beef with me because im another designer.
I havent done anything to make you mad have I ?

I'll start the bidding...ONE MILLION DOLLARS.

huh? :eek7

I know it is sig season but please LOL:)
Your killin the discussion!:1orglaugh

Is this something most designers would prefer ? For the clients to establish the price they're willing to pay beforehand ?

Yeah,

Just fucking aroud. My point is that nobody wants to open any discussion with a price. A client doesn't want to overpay. And a designer doesn't want to undercharge. But the designer still wants the work and the client wants the best price with the least headache.

OK, so both parties start out on an equal ground. Designers just state your price and clients just beg for the cheapest labor. Eventually the playing field levels off.

The clients that survive to afford the big bucks recognize the value of designers that perform on a cash basis. Whatever the price, they make you money.

The designers that prosper are the ones that deliver the goods. Make their clients money.

The best way to get work is to make somebody money. There are tons of sponsors out there. I've been designing for a while. In December, I started building galleries and submitting them. My galleries convert. I got contacted by a sponsor that I promoted. He wanted some free hosted galleries. He contacted me because my galleries made him BLING.

I did his galleries and now have 3 spinoff clients. Makes me BLING.

By the way, the spinoff clients never questioned my price. I made somebody BLING and that's all that matters in business.

yeah thats it.

do you even see me spamming for design? we are in very different markets.

I am nearly no longer available for work dude, i dont have "beef" with you.

me laughing at you has nothing to do with your profession.

I laugh at a lot of idiots around here, im not that picky.

;)

Thanks for calling me an idiot. :thumbsup

you need to grow some skin if you plan on posting as a designer around here

:1orglaugh

Not directly, dude...but spamming for Donovan, lately yeah.

But I can understand that because Donovan makes you money and you make him money. The best basis for spam is truth. "It ain't bragging if you deliver."

Besides, your shit rocks. Keep on blinging.

Hi,

Design Specials, Announcements, etc are good for posting on the boards.

When clients come to me, I find out what they want done, and send them a quote, easy as that. I do tons of quotes all week long and it works out great like that.

Peace

Todd

HAH. maybe you should get to know me more, intead of assuming that you know the kind of person I am. Id rather get to the bottom of things if you have problem rather than shruggin it off as you being an asshole, wich seems to be the direction its going.

Ill save you some time.

I am an asshole ;)

Ask everyone I do business with.

I shrug it off because it doesnt matter.

:thumbsup

See this thread:
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=258548

That thread is exactly along the lines of which this rant topic is about.

He stated a 50K budget and from there people are bidding away and discussing ways to work with it. Just because design is visual is esentially the same.

To take it a level deeper someone could say I got 2K and need 2 tours done and 20 banners.

Theoretically speaking...

I believe that some conditioned patterns people blindly follow in business is not necessarily the correct method to achieve saving money and creating a thread that has far more potential than a "Spam" thread listing tons of designers.

Example.
Look at all the shit them people go through to find a designer with over 30 responses sometimes in them A typical "looking for designer" post when the response would excel well over 30 posts demonstrating what exactly "X" amount of dollars can get them while constructively creating an agreeable price for less than the stated budget amount.

Now, since AlienQ and I get along fine, as a respected designer... im going to bow out of his thread since I have taken up way too much space in here with this jibber jabber and even entertaining these replies.

Carry on folks.

Time to get back to work.

its almost cutting time.

:glugglug