Ontario to commit suicide
 

Ontario to spend $7-billion on sweeping climate change plan

Yep, the world's most indebted non-sovereign jurisdiction is to commit suicide trying to fight the biggest non-problem in the history of the world.

As Canada's largest province this will also drag the entire country down with it.

Anybody who has the means and opportunity to move out of Ontario and possibly even Canada would do well to do so. I am seriously looking into it.

Are the ********** types of the world happy now?

Way to go lunatics. Way to go.



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you can't take away my natural gas!

One could argue that Ontario has never been the same since Bob Rae was Premier. I'm not sure it has ever recovered from that era.

I left Ontario (1989) just before Bob Rae was elected as Premier.

Hydro One will be happy.
Hydro One Ltd: TSE:H quotes & news - Google Finance

Huh? Why is that problem, i would do completely same thing. Yes i know is pain in the ass but it pays off long term. For example, i would hate if they would plastic bags since i always forget to take a bag when i go to store, but after some time i would adapt as it's not really rocket science to pay attention to think do you need a bag or not when you go to store.

Why is that a problem? People will be freezing to death because they can't afford to heat their homes and you come up with a silly analogy about plastic bags?

No offense but you clearly don't grasp the issues at hand and there really is too much to explain to you.



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This is pretty awesome. Good for Ontario.

Here in Quebec they really seem to be ramping up green support. There are now hundreds of charging stations in Montreal including street-side charging stations (cool!). And at least 1 housing developer now includes solar panels on the roofs of the homes as a part of the cost of the home itself.

electric is very expensive and prices are constantly going up. its gone up 400% since 2006. i can heat my 4 bedroom house in the winter using natural gas for far less than it costs to heat a small 2 bedroom apartment using electricity. the bag is not a comparable example.

No offense but either you are trolling or you really are fucked up in the head. Mentally challenged even. Seriously.

It is no way awesome and it is not good for Ontario or Canada at all.

Anyone who says otherwise is a full on idiot.



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Aha make sense. I suppose i could compare that to shit what we have here, were people were basically forced to install "heat dividers" onto radiators despite fact how it was not proven how that save energy, and they did only due "EU command" while in reality EU said how it's mandatory only in case if it save energy. As a result a lot of people wasted their money on buying those heat dividers in fear of paying high penalty , and they also got their heat bills much higher compared to previous bills.
Things like this are good as long they dont cause financial damage to average citizen.

I did some math and at current rates it would cost 13.5 times more to heat with electricity vs. natural gas. Electrical bills are already a huge burden for many in the province. Add heating onto that and many people won't be able to afford electricity at all. On top of that electricty rates would undoubtedly skyrocket further because of soaring demand.

This will also spell the end of industry in the province.

And yet misguided do-gooders like ********** think this is "cool", "awesome" and "a good thing".



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ok so.. you refuse to discuss this, cause anyone who disagrees with you is stupid

but you post it here anyway.

? :1orglaugh

And hey ********** - you want to be truly green? Then release more CO2.

Rise in CO2 has 'greened Planet Earth'

And that is a real observable phenomenon unlike all of the supposed calamity that we "may" encounter "sometime" in the future as "predicted" by fraudulent models.



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I guess if you don't give a flying fuck about the future generations it's a good way to think.

Wow. Nice feel good rhetorical comment with no basis in reality. Typical.

Freezing in the dark because electricity is unaffordable will do a lot more damage to future generations than the life giving trace gas CO2 will ever do. That and being saddled with uncontrollable government debt.

You people are so gullible, misguided and shortsighted it's not even funny.



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a lot of stuff touted as 'green' isn't really and its more about politics. can you imagine how much manufacturing of new goods and old ones going to landfills (after taking off what you can to recycle) of replacing all that heating equipment? and eventually it will become redundant and need to be replaced with something else down the line. one nuclear accident and none of it even matters.

People attempt to signal virtue be claiming to be "green" or by supporting "green". They wear it like a badge to make themselves feel good and feel like they are better than the rest.

But in reality they most often have no idea what they are talking about and they simply ride along with the herd because they need to feel they are part of the crowd. They are mentally lazy and simply go along with what everyone else is saying.

Sadly there are a lot of people who are in for a nasty wake up call and a hard dose of reality.



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You've touted your ignorance before by claiming an excess of CO2 was actually a good thing and humans would thrive in an environment if the levels of CO2 was over 100,000 PPM. Why don't you put a plastic bag over your head and come back and tell us how it went.

Good for Ontario? you realize we have the highest electricity rates in all of North America? This will bankrupt people on fixed incomes.

Well clearly I would suffocate due to lack of oxygen. Anyone past grade 2 could tell you that.

Obviously you've tried it but you somehow managed to survive as a brain dead moron.




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It will bankrupt the entire province. Really it's bankrupt already but the people who have their head in the clouds haven't realized it yet.



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Ontario can now say:

fastest rising rates in all of North America

Ontario electricity rates fastest rising in North America | Guest Column | Colum

Most expensive rates in all of North America

Ontario Wind Turbines | Ontario has the most expensive electricity in North America

And when we try to conserve and actually save energy, they actually increase our rates to make up for how efficient we have become.

https://www.sudbury.com/local-news/o...e-today-288979

And now they want to force us into heating our homes with it.:mad:

I am 80 miles downwind of Ontario (usually). Please dispose of the bodies in a sanitary manner -- TY.

BTW, I thought most of the electric power in Ontario was hydroelectric?

Natural gas is relatively low carbon footprint with modern scrubbing. Coal fired plants are the real problem. Burning wood or fuel oil for heat or to generate steam for boilers is a problem.

Seems a bit anal to me really. But I am all for cleaner air at your expense :upsidedow

Yep, but notice how it's the people who don't live here that are saying it's a good thing.

I have a feeling that when the same nonsense rolls into their neck of the woods they will be singing a different tune.

Besides even if Ontario, or the entire country for that matter, reduced CO2 emissions to zero overnight it would have zero impact on global temperatures. We are killing ourselves for nothing.

All of this CO2 and global warming bullshit is just a a scare tactic being used to get people to swallow a very bitter pill. Unfortunately it has worked.



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It's cheaper to use propane or natural gas here!

Nuclear:36%
​​Gas/Oil: 28%
​Hydro: 24%
​​Wind: 10%
Biofuel: 1%
​​​Solar: 1%


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I guess if you don't give a flying fuck about the future generations it's a good way to think.

yeah, he is off base and you are here posting about people freezing to death.. in canada...

it's a radical move and i'm not sure i am on board with it myself but there is no destruction here. You can't build all that infrastructure without a lot of hiring going along with it.

Its not for nothing. Its making some people extremely rich in the process. The only true goal of all this nonsense.

Good for Ontario eh.

wow. they've completely fallen for this scam. incredible.

Hi Eon,

Just because I hold different beliefs than you doesn't mean you should label or dismiss me as a "do-gooder". It doesn't hurt me for one, but more importantly you may be dismissing ideas alternative to yours that actually hold alot of merit.

Going "green" is a complex topic with lots of opinions on both sides. And while its true that the cost of electricity is high in many places, it is low in other places. In Quebec, using electricity for transportation makes all kinds of sense, economic sense included. In Ontario its more expensive for sure, but it doesn't mean that its bad.

I'd like to ask you more about a couple of things though:

Can you please show your math, and the source for where you found those rates?

This could be a valid point.

Maybe, but the price of gas and oil and natural gas also changes due to demand, and sometimes due to other factors such as the stock market, Opec, wars, etc. The price of fossil fuels has gone up and down wildly over the past 20 years while electricity has, as far as I know, not fluctuated that much.

The gas industry? Maybe. But is that a bad thing?

I don't "do-gooder" is an accurate term for me. I like technology, I like green energy, EV cars, high tech, etc. I don't see competition in business as a bad thing. I'm never impressed with the fossil fuel industry. So yeah, to me, this is cool and awesome.

Peace.

Next week AL Gore is flying on his private jet to Ontario to show the local fat cats there how to create banking institutions to scam 100s of millions off cap&trade.

Hi Eon,

Plants and trees love CO2. This is no secret. Too much CO2 and other greenhouse gasses is what warms the planet, melts the ice, cause more wild weather, etc.

Also you should read the article you linked to. it says:

Regardless, this is a good article. Thanks for sharing.

And look - there is no reason to fight with me on this. As I said earlier this is a really complex issue. Both sides have opinions.

Peace.

:2 cents::thumbsup They are trying to sell Hydro, so in order to make it attractive to potential buyers, they are including a never ending supply of customers ! FUCK THEM !!!:thumbsup

Oh, I get it. You were referring to the government as not giving a flying fuck about future generations. Then spot on. :thumbsup



Cold kills. Living in a continuously cold house can kill when you can't afford to heat it up enough. This will become the case more and more as electricity costs rise if they go through with this plan.

This, from the UK where it doesn't get nearly as cold as here but there is already many in energy poverty:

Winter death toll 'to exceed 40,000'

And yes there is destruction. There is financial destruction and economic destruction as companies can no longer afford to operate here and move out.


Bingo!



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Not to worry. The 7 billion will mostly find it's way to politician and their friends pockets and from there to local Hookers quickly being distributed back into the economy.

What have you got against vegetation? Why do you want to stifle and hinder it?

You ever notice that all of these "predictions" of future doom and gloom due to rising CO2 are full of words such as "likely", "may", "probably", "could", etc., etc.?

You might get the impression that they have no fucking clue. And that is exactly right - they don't have a fucking clue. To date all of their predictions have been wrong.

Show me proof that says x amount of CO2 is too much CO2. Show me proof that said amount of CO2 is what has caused a slight warming, melting ice and more wild weather. In fact show me proof of more wild weather.

This is not about opinions this is about facts.

Fact: increasing CO2 is causing the earth to green.
Fact: CO2 does not have an infinite capacity to cause warming and has already caused all of the warming it can.
Fact: Biodiversity thrives in warm climates and suffers in cool climates.
Fact: there is no increase in wild weather despite the warming.
Fact: there is no increase in the rate of sea level rise despite the warming.

Non fact: CO2 is causing excessive warming and will continue to cause increased warming.
Non fact: there is more wild weather.
Non fact: any prediction of future temperature.
Non fact: climate models predicting future climate.
Non fact: x degrees is the right temperature for Earth.
Non fact: x amount of CO2 is too much.
...etc., etc.

I'm not trying to fight with you and sorry for coming off a little harsh but this shit is really starting to piss me off. There is no need for it and it is all completely misguided.

Polls constantly show that climate change is on the bottom of the list of most people's most important issues yet this bone-headed government is pursuing it to the exclusion of almost everything else. They are going to completely bankrupt Ontario and Canada in the process and all for no measurable change in anything climate related. This kind of stuff is really a worry for the rich because people who have to struggle just to put food on the table can't afford to worry about it.

As for labeling a "do-gooder" I think I am spot on:

I think you mean well but the policies that result from the type of good that you, and the politicians that think like you, try to do end up doing more harm than good.



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Eon, there's no reason for you to get so upset and defensive. Nasa scientists say too much CO2 in the atmosphere is a bad thing, and you don't have to look too hard to see the damage caused by the fossil fuel industry. If you think they are wrong just like you think the new policies coming to Ontario are wrong, then what do you suggest?

What I hope that you do though is do some research. But don't search for things that serve your conceived notions first. Instead, try looking for the real cost of fossil fuels, the damage caused by it, the health problems etc, and then ask yourself if there isn't a better way.

Or if you want, lets try to be constructive about the problem. You think going green is a problem, I say staying black is a problem. You say CO2 is good for plants, I say CO2 creates global warming, while agreeing with you about plants. (By the way, Methane is also a greenhouse gas, but plants don't like it much).

We can dance together about this all night long, but neither one of us is going to get laid. So instead, lets leave the name-calling out, and try putting some constructive ideas forward. You don't like the Ontario plan? Fine. What do you suggest instead?

Peace.

canada will never escape its destiny- petroleum production from oil sand.



trying to ramrod green measures down people's throats and businesses won't change that.

I see your point, but its a little off. We also export electricity, cars, gems, wood, etc. I read somewhere that Oil is about 19% of the total export which is really significant, but I think if Oil were to crash even harder than it has already, things would rebound sooner or later.

canada has the biggest proven oil reserves on the planet. oil sand production is profitable at current prices and some say even lower. this world won't be forced off the oil teet, we're going to suck it dry. that's human nature. too many products, people, places and things inextricably tied to oil.

provincial government officials(actually just one guy, if i understand correctly, the minister of green shit) trying to usurp that are only going to make fat cats fatter and poor people more poor. taking folks off natural gas and requiring them to use electricity is truly myopic.

Sigh.

Here we go with whole NASA thing again. NASA should stick to what it is supposed to do - launch shit into space. It's pretty sad that American astronauts have to hitch a ride on Russian rockets to get into space yet NASA has no trouble convincing people like you that CO2 is evil and a 1 degree temperature increase is going to kill us all. Talk about losing focus.

What of the damage caused by the fossil fuel industry? Is it really any worse than the damage caused by the lithium mining industry? The molybdenum mining industry? The rare earth mineral mining industry? The palm oil industry? The wind turbine industry?

Here you go - enjoy being a "green" hypocrite:
The Worst Place on Earth

Do you enjoy living a comfortable modern life? If so then thank the fossil fuel industry because a your comfortable modern life is not possible without it. If you think it is go for it.

I have taken issue with you before about talking down to people. Don't do it. Don't tell me to do research as if to imply that you are better or smarter than me. Don't tell me that "Methane" is also a greenhouse gas and plants don't like it much. You insult me more by taking me for an idiot with comments like that than I have ever insulted you with "name calling". And don't capitalize methane.

I have been following and researching this topic for 25+ years. I was once exactly like you and it is through my own research that I came to see things differently. Maybe you should do some research outside of NASA and the NOAA. "But don't search for things that serve your conceived notions first". Try looking for the real cost of a world without fossil fuels, the mass starvation, the freezing in the cold, the lighting of rooms by candle light. (Oops sorry - candles are not permitted because they emit CO2). Is it really humanity you care about or only your own sense of virtue?

And I never said going green is a problem. I said cutting CO2 is not going green. CO2 is green. Period.

As for what Ontario should do instead? Honestly, Ontario should be building new nuclear or hydroelectric power plants instead of bird and bat chopping wind farms. They should be trying to provide electricity as cheaply as possible to promote economic growth and paying down the provincial debt. And they should stop worrying about the mythological "carbon footrptint".

FYI - debt servicing in Ontario now consumes almost 10% of the annual budget - $11 billion a year. It is the fastest growing budget item outpacing both health and education. And this is at low interest rates. A rise in interest rates will be catastrophic.

Do you honestly think that broke ass people living in a broke ass province will be able to afford electric cars, electric heat, carbon taxes or even basic electricity? Only wealthy people can afford to be "green". Poor people cannot.

Lastly if you can't see that this whole thing is politically dictated then there is no hope for you. Your best bet is to go work for NASA and become another one of the hapless drones that dare not speak out against the mandated dogma for fear of losing your cushy pay check.




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Climate change is real and picking up pace. The debate is over what's causing it and whether we can stop or slow it down.

Nasa's ability to "launch shit into space" means that Satellites can give us views of the earth that we normally do not see. All of those instruments can measure the earth and its atmosphere and changes over time that show us in detail what is going on. Nasa hasn't lost any focus. Your tax dollars are paying for the information they are gathering. You can debate it if you want, but you shouldn't ignore it or dismiss it.


Seriously?

http://cdn.earthporm.com/wp-content/...nge-7__880.jpg http://greenbuzzz.com/wp-content/upl...il_Spill_1.jpg.

Google is your friend.




Of course there are some environmental costs to all types of energy gathering, but those types need to be explored because the cost of fossil fuels is extremely high. The price you pay at the pump for gasoline is not the full cost.

But since you bring it up, Yes fossil fuels are worse than wind. A Single wind turbine can produce 750 kW that can power over 200-300 homes. All with no air emissions, no fuel to mine, no fuel to transport, no fuel to store, no cooling water, and no waste.


I never said that fossil fuels need to be completely removed. No one thinks that. What needs to be done is to have fossil fuels be used more cleanly and more efficiently. Using fossil fuels to heat homes and power cars is inefficient and wasteful, that's all.

Eon, you have called me several names in this thread alone, and I have called you no names at all. You and I are having a discussion about your original post. You stated your opinion that you strongly disagree with Ontario's decision to move forward to reduce emissions, and called it suicide. You even named me in your original post, and challenging me to lend my comments on your topic, so here I am.

I am offering my opinion too, which you have invited by posting, which I am allowed to give. I feel strongly about my opinion just as you feel strongly about yours, but it doesn't mean that it should devolve into a fight my friend.


As I said earlier, there will always be a place for gas, oil, coal, and fossil fuels. My... point... my... reason for arguing I guess you could say, is that I love technology, and because of that, I think there is always a better way to do things - a more efficient way. That's all dude - there's no need to get so upset all the time.

The problem isn't CO2. It's too much CO2.

And original post highlighted "phasing out natural gas for heating". It has its advantages over coal, but it still emits sulphur dioxide and nitrogen oxide which contribute to acid rain and ground level ozone. Natural gas | Energy | Climate change | Science & policy | Energy | Issues

Guess what - I agree with you here. Ontario and other places should build NEW Nuclear power plants. Nuclear is surprisingly clean. Hopefully they can build the newest, next-technology plants. I forget what they are called (it's 2:50am and I'm dead tired) but yes, Nuclear.

(See? We can agree on something)

I'm sure you are right.

Eon, look. THere's no reason to insult me, at least on this. I am trying to have a conversation with you. The whole issue is complicated and there are millions of things that come into play on both sides. You have your opinions and I have mine and thats cool for the both of us. I think maybe the difference though, is that I am more optimistic about things in general. I will always look at things that interest me and wonder how they can be made to be better.

You named me in your OP and here I am, giving you my opinion. If your original reason for placing my name in your post was just to fight, then thats too bad and I've wasted my time. Hopefully I'm wrong about that. Maybe your next post will answer that question.

Cheers.

from my understanding, that part of the country had a heavy dependence on coalfired plants.. if i recall correctly, the specific province had just banned the use in the past year or so?

it seems like this initiative is meant to build up infrastructure in different industries to make up for the loss?

too many countries are getting ahead via sustainable energy anyway

Very little media coverage of this besides the Globe and Mail.