Apple Powerbook G4 17" or an Intel-based laptop computer?
 

So I've decided to get rid of my big computer and buy a second laptop, that will function as my new workstation. I'm really thinking about this new Apple Powerbook G4, which has a 17" flatscreen and every possible feature you could think of. But I never ever worked with MacOS before in my life.

I'm a designer so I really need a big processor/lots of memory (512 of 1gig)/plenty of videomemory(64mb). I already own an IBM laptop, and I'm very satisfied about it but it's too slow to function as a full workstation (800mhz, 256mb).

What could you advice me? To go for the Apple Powerbook, or go for an Intel-based laptop. And which ones are good? I prefer to work with good brands such as IBM, Compaq/HP or Dell maybe?

Im looking to spend around ?3500 on it. Any thoughts on this one?

Thanks,
Sebastian.

(Edit: here's a link to the Powerbook: http://www.apple.com/powerbook/index17.html )

Its quite a suprise to here that your a graphic designer and have not used a Mac.

Over here in the States Mac has been the computer of choise for most of the graphics, printing and photographer world. Its about the only real niche the Mac has.

I have been using a Mac my whole profesional career. I find it much more intuitive that PC's

I'm a creative person I don't want to spend time figuring out computer tech problems. Mac makes my job easy and keeps me focused without having to deal with computer problems.

One of the best pages I have seen that talks about the Mac advantage is right on the Apple web site.

http://www.apple.com/switch/

Read it! Every point is true and correct

Then if your still not sure go and try out a Mac, you will love that new 17 inch powerbook.

Well, the reason that I have never worked with Macs before is that I grew up using PC's. I've been dealing with these things since DOS 1.2. Working in Photoshop and programs like that is just as easy on a PC these days.

I like the whole Apple-way of thinking, everythings made much easier, even though I consider myself an above-average PC user. I haven't seen a better alternative for the G4 17" yet, but maybe there is. If there isn't, I'll probably go for the Apple.

Seb.

I was not saying that you were wrong for using the PC not at all

It just became the "industry standard" over here for Graphic people to use Macs.

PC are great and have a very important place in this world.

I have 14 employees in my studio and 12 of them use Macs. The other 2 use PC because they also grew up with PC's. It would have been a very big learning curve for them to switch to Mac so we let them have PC's

This is the major point you must consider in switching. If you are unhappy with your PC and how it works you should really look at the Mac. But if your are just switching for the sake of switching I would say look carefully at the learning curve you will have. How much down time might you encounter?

Mac is a great thing, I love my Mac. Mac's have made me lots of money over the years. But it has to fit your needs it is not the right answer for everyone.

Damn maybe I should see if Apple has a webmasters program :)

Thanks on your thoughts on this. I'm not switching just because I saw a Mac commercial. But I was getting rid of my PC anyways, so why not go for a Mac while we are at it. I understand from your answer that I will get value for my money.

I think it will most likely fit my needs because I do alot of Photoshop work and that program works on the Mac as well. I made a list on which programs I'm now running everyday and 90% of them exist on the Mac or have an alternative on the Mac.

I will probably end up spending around $5000 on goods, because if I go for the Mac, I'll buy the 20" flatscreen too. I do want to sit in front of a real monitor with a normal keyboard and mouse, just like now. For $5000 I could also buy a good Intel laptop and maybe even two screens so here's where I'm still not sure.

Seb.

Only MAC certainly.

I work on double G4 with 23 inch Apple HD monitor.
This best in the world. I also work on 17 inch Apple notebook.
I recommend :)

Best Regards.
Vladimir AIVENGO.

For creative thinking people, I think MacOS is the only way go. It's more open and free flowing. I worked on a Windows machine for about 6 months, using Photoshop, Illustrator, Quark, etc. I found it very restricting and confining. I went back to my beloved Mac as soon as I left that company. I've been a designer for over 10 years and have been using a Mac all that time (except for that 6 months). It may be a bit of a learning curve, but in a couple of months you'll wonder how you got on with it.

My GF switched and now she loves it.

right

Just yesterday I walked into a Mac store and from what I heard, the 17" Powerbooks aren't even officially out yet.

It was actually the first time I got to play with the Powerbooks, and I gotta admit - the quality of shell, screen, keys and all were quite astonishing... oh well, too bad I don't have $3000+ extra to blow on one...

Anyone who doesn't lust after the 17" PowerBook is a eunuch.

If you're a designer, get the Apple. Nothing can beat an Apple when it comes to hardcore video editing and graphic design. :thumbsup

you can't edit wmv files on the mac right?

wow never seen so many Mac lovers in one place. I'm a PC man myself, XP is the PC's saviour, no more crashes, now MACs have nothing over PC's as PC's are so stable. I don't hate mac just can't see why anyone would want to use a machine that isn't the industry standard there customers use. It can only imagine how frustrating it is when you need to do something for a project and the software you need to use is PC only, like most of the software from download.com which I have used on many projects that Macs just wouldn't have the software for.

And don't tell me graphics are done faster on macs now days, Graphics on the latest PC's are now faster done on PC's than MAC's as Pixar just changed there machines to 100's of Intel servers. Why get a 1 ghz G4 when you can get a 2.2 ghz - 2.4 ghz PC laptop similar specs for the same price???

i'm typing this on an almost new 15.2 inch powerbook. great machine.

17" Powerbook is the only way to go for the sort of image manipulation and graphics work that we do and any program you need to do web work is available except for a few esoteric pieces of software like Arlis. But most PC programs have a Mac alternative.
The graphics industry in the UK as well as the film and printing industry all use Macs and have done for many years.

We have a 2.5 gig PC here in the office running XP and it crashes 500% more than any of our 5 macs. So it spends most of its time as an expensive door stop or coffee table.

Cindy xx


:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

Sebastian,

Try the Toshiba Satellite 1950. I have one and I love it, it comes with:

16" LCD
2.0 GHz
512MB Ram
NVIDIA GeForce 4 440Go Video Card
40 Gig Hard Disk
Wireless removable keyboard and mouse
CD-RW/DVD combo drive
Dual Monitor Support :) and TV-Out
3 USB and 1 Fire Wire IEEE1394
LAN Card

Check it out Toshiba Satellite 1950

:thumbsup

1.) I don't think I have ever heard anyone say that XP is the savior of the Windows world. I know many, many people who downgrade to 2000 so they don't have to put up with the instability and crap that is XP.

2.) I very rarely have to use a piece of software that isn't available for the Mac. The software gap is a myth. There is less software on store shelves, because they only stock PC stuff. There is less shareware because we have less duplication. There is still a good tool to do almost any job.

3.) Megahertz is not the same as speed. A 1 GHz P4 is slower than a 1 GHz P3. Needless to say, it's also a lot slower than a 1 GHz G4. Yes, the fastest PC is faster than the fastest Mac, but the gap isn't as wide as it would appear if you look at MHz alone.

4.) Show me an Intel-based laptop with similar specs to the 17" PowerBook. Yes, all PC vendors sell machines that are cheaper than Macs... but once you beef them up with the same features as the Macs, they end up costing about the same.

I have to say I have XP and it is very very stable. I had win98 and it was a nightmare to do photoshop on. It would crash three times a day. I think apple builds a great computer but what it would cost to buy the computer and then to change all that software . It would cost me like $6000 which is crazy lol. For $1500 I could do amazing upgrades on my pc.

Not even a question. Go for the Mac. I'm selling my old Powerbook, because we just got one of the new tiBooks for my girl to work on. Out with the old...in with the new.

For the record, you can generally use the Upgrade package from major software companies to switch from PC to Mac (or vice versa). So, for instance, going from Photoshop 6 PC to Photoshop 7 Mac costs the same as PC to PC.

Dont forget the audio man.

I use a Mac g4 with Digidesigns Pro Tools and it rocks.

http://www.digidesign.com

IN every major studio across america.

really? I didnt know that

all the mac stuff is _so_ goddamn expensive though! eek!

just so everyone knows tho, the g4 is a screamer, because it uses 128 bit processor architechture. it doesn't need more clocks because it can jam more shit through per cycle.


i'm still rolling around the mac thing, but i was thinking about building a dual p4 3.06 with a bog honking raid system for video editing :thumbsup

Sebastiaan, check out the Mycom site...dunno where you live, but there should be a Mycom outlet relatively close to you.
I have been totally anti-laptop for ages, until my gf talked me into buying the Asus a few months ago. It's awesome, and a hell of a lot cheaper than a comparable Toshiba, or any of the other A-brands.
If you're used to PC, stick to PC.
There's nothing you can do on a Mac that you can't do on a PC. It used to be different, but that has changed ages ago.
I use this machine to capture and edit DV with Adobe Premiere, and run it alongside Photshop, no problem.

because its PROsumer, as opposed to CONsumer.

Does a 12 year old surfing the net need dual g4 with 24 channels of digital recording, and a Cinema Display 21 inch monitor? No, but to the person who wants it, 4k is nothing to drop on a piece of machine.

Shit I know video editors that have 40k AVID systems, and drive shit cars hahah.

Its all about what youre doing, you wanna surf the net, get a fucking eMachine , you wanna edit video and record audio theres no other choice. a 4k mac is cheap compared to some gear, especially in the video and audio world.

at least, thats how I see it, hehe.

:glugglug

Apples are for yuppies. Besides, it doesn't offer the flexibility PC's do.

Fletch has a point. Plus, if you put together a PC system with the same features... the high LCD screen, fast RAM, video and audio, SuperDrive, etc... You end up paying just as much.

I have 6 years background on Graphic Design.. only used IBM/PC

Seb, another thought. Right now, the 15" powerbook is last-year's model, and the 12" of course isn't quite as hot as the 17". However, if you wait for the new 15" to come out, you can save some money, considering you're planning on getting an external monitor anyhow.

yep, same here

i'm talking just the box, last i checked on prices for a dual g4 1ghz... the prices just weren't right. i could have easily built a p4 system probably for about $500-1000 less, with a very similar config.

I love a good switch arguement. What's cool though, is that it really isn't an argue. With all the M$ bashing that goes on, I'm surprised that people actually aren't converting much quicker.

Apple puts on a high quality product at fair market price. I think you're doing yourself a dissservice by not at least checking it out. And by checking it out, play around with it.

Now if anyone wants to play around? I'm selling an G3 Powerbook...if anyone is interested I'll post the details.

From the Apple Website:

Dual 1.25GHz PowerPC G4
1MB L3 cache/processor
256MB DDR333 SDRAM
80GB Ultra ATA/100
Combo Drive
ATI Radeon 9000 Pro
64MB DDR video memory
FireWire 800
56K internal modem
Bluetooth Ready
$1,999.00

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...tore?family=G4

actually, everybody just wait for the motherfucking hammer chip...

tie that up with a radeon 9800 and it's game over for everyone.. including mac.

From apple.com:

<font size="1">
$1,999.00

Dual 1.25GHz PowerPC G4
1MB L3 cache/processor
256MB DDR333 SDRAM
80GB Ultra ATA/100
Combo Drive
ATI Radeon 9000 Pro
64MB DDR video memory
FireWire 800
56K internal modem
Bluetooth Ready
</font

from pcmall.com

<font size="1">

http://www.pcmall.com/pcmall/shop/de...sp?dpno=134336

Compliant Standards AC '97, SoundMAX with SPX
Speaker(s) 2 x right / left channel
Type Sound card - PCI - integrated
Cable(s) / Peripheral(s)
Input Device Mouse, keyboard
Cache Memory
Installed Size 512 KB
Per Processor Size 512 KB
Type L2 cache - Advanced Transfer Cache
Environmental Parameters
Humidity Range Operating 8 - 80%
Max Operating Temperature 95 °F
Min Operating Temperature 50 °F
Sound Emission 36 dB
Expansion / Connectivity
Expansion Bay(s) Total (Free) 2 ( 1 ) x front accessible - 5.25" x 1/2H ¦ 1 ( 0 ) x internal - 3.5" x 1/3H ¦ 2 ( 1 ) x front accessible - 3.5" x 1/3H
Expansion Slot(s) Total (Free) 1 ( 0 ) x AGP - three-quarter-length, full-height ¦ 3 ( 2 ) x PCI - three-quarter-length, full-height ¦ 1 ( 0 ) x processor - Socket 478 ¦ 2 ( 1 ) x memory - DIMM 184-pin
Port(s) Total / Connector Type 1 x parallel - IEEE 1284 (EPP/ECP) - 25 pin D-Sub (DB-25) ¦ 2 x serial - RS-232 - 9 pin D-Sub (DB-9) ¦ 6 x serial - Hi-Speed USB - 4 pin USB Type A ¦ 1 x audio - line-in - mini-phone stereo 3.5 mm ¦ 1 x audio - line-out/headphones - mini-phone stereo 3.5 mm ¦ 1 x microphone - input - mini-phone mono 3.5 mm ¦ 1 x mouse - generic - 6 pin mini-DIN (PS/2 style) ¦ 1 x keyboard - generic - 6 pin mini-DIN (PS/2 style) ¦ 1 x network - Ethernet 10Base-T/100Base-TX - RJ-45 ¦ 1 x display / video - VGA - 15 pin HD D-Sub (HD-15) ¦ 1 x modem - phone line - RJ-11 ¦ 1 x display / video - S-video output - 4 pin mini-DIN
General
Depth 15.7 in
Enclosure Color Stealth black
Height 16.3 in
Localization English / United States
Product Form Factor Tower
Recommended Use Small business, corporate business
Type Personal computer
Weight 22.5 lbs
Width 7.5 in
Mainboard
Chipset Type Intel 845G
Data Bus Speed 533 MHz
Manufacturer Warranty
Service & Support 1 year warranty
Service & Support Details Limited warranty - parts and labor - on-site - 1 year - response time: 1 day
Miscellaneous
Compliant Standards APM 1.2, ACPI 1.0b, FCC Class B certified, CE, CSA, TUV GS, ISO 9241-3, ISO 9241-8, CISPR 22 Class B, DEMKO, EN 60950, IEC950, NEMKO, NOM, SEMKO, UL 1950, ZH1 618
Features Administrator password, power-on password, boot without keyboard or mouse, diskette I/O control, parallel port I/O control, serial port I/O control, U-Bolt anchoring, boot sequence control
Monitor
Monitor Type None.
Networking
Data Link Protocol Ethernet, Fast Ethernet
Features Wake on LAN (WOL)
Networking Network adapter - PCI - integrated
Remote Management Protocol DMI 2.0
Operating System / Software
OS Certified Microsoft Windows NT 4.0, IBM OS/2 Warp 4.0, Novell NetWare, Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition, Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional , Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition, Microsoft Windows XP Professional
OS Provided Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
Software Included Drivers & Utilities, Adobe Acrobat Reader, Lotus SmartSuite Millennium, PC Doctor, IBM Update Connector, Lotus Notes Client, IBM Access Support, Access IBM, VERITAS RecordNow, IBM Director Agent, IBM Rapid Restore PC, IBM Remote Deployment Manager, Norton AntiVirus 2003
Optical Storage
Media Load Type Tray
Read Speed 40x (CD) / 16x (DVD)
Rewrite Speed 10x
Type 1 x CD-RW / DVD-ROM - internal - IDE / EIDE
Write Speed 32x
Power
Device Type Power supply - internal
Power Provided 185 Watt
Voltage Required AC 110/220 V
Processor
Installed Qty 1
Max Supported Qty 1
Type Intel Pentium 4 3.06 GHz
RAM
Bus Clock Rate 133 MHz
Features Unbuffered
Form Factor DIMM 184-pin
Installed Size 256 MB / 2 GB (max)
Memory Specification Compliance DDR266/PC2100
Technology DDR SDRAM
Storage
Storage Floppy Drive 1.44 MB 3.5" HD
Storage Hard Drive 1 x 80 GB - standard - DMA/ATA-100 (Ultra) - 7200 rpm
Storage Controller
Controller Interface Type DMA/ATA-100 (Ultra)
Type 1 x IDE / EIDE - integrated
Telecom
Analog Modulation Protocol ITU V.90
Max Transfer Rate 56 Kbps
Modem Fax / modem - PCI - plug-in card
Video Output
Graphics Processor / Vendor NVidia GeForce4 MX 420
Installed Size 64 MB / 64 MB (max)
Max Resolution (external) 2048 x 1536 / 24-bit (16.7M colors)
Type Graphics card - AGP 4x - plug-in card
Video Memory Video adapter memory - DDR SDRAM - integrated

$1499
</font>

that;s fucking expensive!

besides, i've heard that macs are much more responsive to memory than pcs, and i couldn't do anything with 256mb of ram

thats the dumbest thing I have heard today.

hahah

how is that dumb? you just set up a fairly similar system for $500 less. if i tried, i could probably get it even cheaper.

and yes, everything i've heard about macs is that they are faster with memory additions than pcs. i know with all the software i'm using, it usually exceeds the machine capacity at 256 mb... although i am comparing that to xp.

Let's hear it...

Here's a link to an eBay auction for a nice Powerbook setup. I gonna keep an eye on it and see where it goes.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=14 909

Fair market price ? They build a good product but I dont think so they are expenisive, go to buy a mac and see what they charge you to add ddr ram its rape lol.

This one is the 266, with a 4gig harddrive and 320MB RAM. I had it running OSX, but wiped everything clean and reinstalled 9.2.2
I was able to install and run OSX, and all of the Macromedia Studio MX programs. Not bad for a 5 year old machine. The battery is a bit tempermental. Sometimes it holds a charge, sometimes it doesn't. They are easy to come by. I've got the swapable cd and zip drives. That's about it. I've seen them go for upwards of $700. So best offer + shipping, and whoever wants it can enjoy it.

PowerBook G3 Series (rev. 2)
Codename: PDQ
CPU: PowerPC 750
CPU Speed: 233/266/300 Mhz
FPU: integrated
Bus Speed: 66 Mhz
Data Path: 64 bit
ROM: 4 MB
RAM Type: SO-DIMM
Mininum RAM Speed: 100 Mhz
Onboard RAM: 0 MB
RAM Slots: 2
Maximum RAM: 192 MB
Level 1 Cache: 32 k data, 32k instruction
Level 2 Cache: 512 kb backside, 1:2
Screen: 14.1" active matrix TFT
Maximum Resolution: 24 bit 1024x768
Slots: 2 Type II or 1 Type III PC Card
Floppy Drive: removable 1.4 MB SuperDrive
Zip Drive: optional
Optical Drive: 24x CD-ROM or optional DVD-ROM
Hard Disk: 2 GB
ATA Bus: IDE
Ethernet: 10Base-T
ADB: 1
Serial: 2
SCSI: HDI-30
Video Out: VGA, S-Video
Audio Out: stereo 16 bit mini
Audio In: stereo 16 bit mini
Speaker(s): stereo
Microphone: mono
Gestalt ID: 312
Power: 45 Watts
Weight: 7.5 lbs.
Dimentions: 2" H x 12.7" W x 10.4" D
Minimum OS: 8.1
Maximum OS: 10.2.4
Introduced: August 1998
Terminated: May 1999

Announced in August 1998, The Rev. 2 PowerBook G3 was an answer to supply problems that had been troubling Apple all summer. By standardizing the bus speed (to 66 Mhz) and the screen size (to 14.1"), Apple could further streamline the production process, and ship PowerBooks faster. While 266 and 300 Mhz versions took some time to make it into the resseller channel, the 233 Mhz model (now equipped with a L2 cache) was available immediately.

The 233 Mhz was initially sold for $2,799, the 266 Mhz model for $3,499, and the 300 Mhz model for $3,999. There was also a limited-edition 233 Mhz 12.1" active-matrix model which sold for $2,299.

http://www.apple-history.com

Try this. Go to Apple. Pick a system, get it configured how you like it.

Then, go to Dell. Find a similar system (remember, per MHz, G4 is faster than P4). Keep the windows open side by side, and get a price on comparable systems. Not just the superficial stuff, but all the specs.

Let me know how it turns out. Every time I have done it, the Dell has been more expensive.

you're probably right there, but why would *i* buy a dell desktop? i'm not sure where i can buy all the parts seperately and *build* a g4. can you do this?

I own multiple :) They're products are priced at fair market value. Price up a comparable PC. I actually wouldn't be surprised if the Mac was priced less. Show me something from a company that provides the product, and the support. Apples for apples in way.
Let's see :Graucho

You are right. You can build a PC yourself from parts. You can't really do that with a Mac. So what? At that point, all complains about Apple can also be applied to Sony or Dell. Plenty of people choose to buy Sony or Dell computers, and like them, Apple is a premium product.

well. we're both right, i guess. as with anything, an item's only worth what you can sell it to someone for. and you can't sell me a prebuilt machine (except a mac). i have nothing against macs at all. but, i don't have an infinite budget, so i don't see any reason for me to switch when i can do just as much with less, so-to-speak.

i think mac does make good products, tho. they kick ass and i wouldn't mind having one someday. it's just not cost-effective, for me.

He speaks the truth. Clawhammer + Multithreading is unbeatable (at least for a few years).

Available mid year.

Dude you should of got a Dell!

If you are editing video, get the G4!

it sounds like amd is delaying a bit... they're blaming it on microsoft, but who knows. their explanation is that they are waiting for the release of xp64. otherwise, there isn't much use in the consumer market for a 64bit pc (except *nix, but that's not their main market...).

it will be interesting to see if the sledge hammer will loosen intel's grip from the server market. these hammer chips are mind-boggling. initial benchmarks were putting the claw hammer at 4 TIMES FASTER than the itanium, at 2-300 less cycles... booya! i can't imagine the sledge... no more xeon i guess :)

i'm also interested to see if nvidia will make a comeback after the 9800 blow ati dealt... apparently it's just _way_ above invidia, and that's with ati's prerelease dirvers, which are always a joke and missing a ton of the hardware's capability.

i love ati :1orglaugh