Smells like fraud, should I pay this guy?
 

Received this email back from this guy after receiving very very low traffic, high signups, with high chargebacks from his particular account id. Here's what he came back with.

hmm why would a person have access to a list of 8 million emails and be willing to send them info that they propably aren't interested in...that plus the msn thingie says one thing: spammer...fuck him and give me his money...

it's a sea of scammers...

What is that title given to you when you get over 50 posts or something.. "I have 6 credit cards, each buying a trial signup a day" ?

This guy also signed up a few accounts 'underneath' himself to get referal bonuses, and came back with "oh but its my room mate"

Guy's a scammer. Tell him to go fist himself.

Just a note, I do know people who have signed others up through IM. It usually works out pretty well. Talking to someone on IM isn't actually spam. Maybe he has a transcript of how the transaction takes place.

About 8 million emails. Yes if he spammed that would be a good reason not to pay him. However, why would an email chargeback more than a non email ad? I'm just curious. People are always griping about email ruining the biz etc. I don't get it. I would rather get 100 emails than the popups I go through on most porn sites with spyware, cookies, and the usual.

How much is he owed? If he is serious about suing it could cost you more in the long run. Is it in your TOS that you can cancel an account at your discretion?

I'm not saying he didn't try to scam you. But I'm sure you would have emails from spam complaints if he went that route. He might be trading sign ups with friends however. How low of traffic are you talking about? I convert extremely well and I am sure I have thrown a few flags at sponsors but they have never withheld a check.

Good luck.

Now thats a different story. If they are in his name boot his ass. If its a small amount owed you still might want to pay before going to court. Unless its the principal of it.

LOL. i guess you've never heard of candidclicks? huge sponsor, brought to their knees, and temporarily completely shut down, due to a spammer they pissed off...

He didnt spam at all.

Quite simply, he received a lot of chargebacks. I think its a fairly open-shut case of him signing up under stolen credit cards and using us as a money fence. The real owners of the cards are charging back.

He seems pretty irate though, doesnt he?

how many chargebacks are we talking about?

what is the use of paying someone for referral signups when you dont recieve the funds? might be different for you, but i get charged a fee for chargebacks on top of the signup funds being taken away. lots of chargebacks could make a nice dent in my paycheck.

but i do have the option in my program to subtract the signup fee from a referrers payout due to a chargeback. might be something you want to look into. of course, if you didnt have this in ur terms to begin with then i wouldnt recommend doing this.

If it smells like a scam it normally is a scam...

A lot of chargebacks. 80%+ of his charges. He claims we received a lot due to our shitty members areas.

I always get very suspicious when people are getting so personal with direct marketing. How do you know if they are saying to the person signing up: "Just sign up for the $1.95 trial, then cancel so you don't rebill" ... etc.

How do you know they are not operating a credit card sweatshop? Chargebacks.. thats all you can really guage this off I suppose.

Yes he seemed irate, lol. Is it possible to call one of the charged back cardholders and see if it was stolen? If he is scamming you it would do some good for everyone to get him out of the system.


QUIET,
Yes I heard of candidclicks but I had no idea it was from a spammer. No wonder you never give our your url on this board.

What basis do you have for withholding payment? The fact that you don't like the results might not be enough. What in your contract with him (or TOS) would give you the power to withhold payment in this case? "I don't like it" isn't really legal grounds. Until you explain it from that angle, my vote is to do the stand-up thing, and pay him.

Wow. Unless you have hard evidence of fraud, pay him for the su's that didn't charge back.. fulfill your legal obligations in other words.. then term his ass.

wow alot of chargebacks,

I wouldn't pay the guy a cent....

But with no firm evidence, you could end up with some legal problems.

If the amount owing is small enough just pay the guy and save yourself alot of trouble.

:2 cents:

I'd go woth pay him and can him unless it's a huge amount.

Its surely not a HUGE amount otherwise his chargebacks would really be a problem to you. BUT 80% chargebacks is WRONG WRONG WRONG! Something is not right there and he is scamming you somehow.

If its not that much and it surely can't be, if it was $2000 worth of signups and 80% chargedback I'd be called the damn police on his ass.

You could consider paying him the left over money that hasn't charged back if you want to keep things peaceful and without having to worry about him bad mouthing your name all over the place.

How much do you own him?

I should have rephrased mine a little. With 80% chargebacks, by paying him I meant on non-chargebacked sales.

Pentae, I think this guy fucked you. I would bet he's a scammer extrodinaire. Nobody generates over 80% chargebacks unless you're only talking about 5 sales and 4 charged back, I could maybe see that happening, but it would be rare. But if it was like 50 sales and 40 charged back, then thats just crap. Pure scam.

how many sign ups are we talking about here? if its over 10, he's most likely doing something pretty weird. if thats the case he won't sue because the dirt on his end will come out.

if its a small amount, pay him and tell him to send his traffic elsewhere.

80% of chargebacks is wrong way wrong.

Crescent were not getting that level when they were charging cards after saying it was all free.

80% of people do not check their CC statements that closely.

smells of something funky.... Why don't you share the ref url with some of the other program owners around here so you can compare notes.

Make sure you keep every single one of his threats on file.

pay him. you don't have thick enough skin to have the rep I own.
Before you know it, the scammers will convince the dumber ones here that YOU are the bad guy.:1orglaugh

only 2 didn't charge back?

that means he only signed up 10 total

and if he doesn't like your site, why was he recommending it?

either pay him for the two, or don't pay him at all