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-   -   My review of NATS affiliate Software (long read, please don't flame me lol) (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=529238)

sonofsam 10-17-2005 07:37 PM

My review of NATS affiliate Software (long read, please don't flame me lol)
 
Now before I start, I would just like to say that this is in no way trying to bash NATS, because it truly is a wonderful tool and has simplified my work greatly. This is just my review and I thought I would share it so that other small programs can see if this is a realistic alternative to lack of statistics and affiliate handling (i.e. Paycom). Before anyone asks why I did not talk to john about this in private, let me tell you that its because this shouldn?t be taken as drama.. This is more of a review to help out people that are in the same boat as me, trying to launch a small affiliate program.

Now there are also a few things I don?t like about NATS which I?ll address first so it?s easier.

1.) Conflict of Interest - It recently came to my attention that the owner of NATS also started his own affiliate program marketing solo girls?. At first this never bothered me at all, because I know john is a stand up guy from everyone I?ve talked to couldn?t talk any more highly of him. However the only thing that kind of bothered me was the fact that NATS tech people or whoever ? would periodically log into my admin since they have admin access to all NATS programs. This wouldn?t bother me as much if I knew who it was that was logging into my critical information (I.e. affiliate information, Current member information/emails etc) If it was john, I would have no problem but I know john doesn?t have the time to routinely log into peoples accounts.. that?s just something that stays at the back of my mind because I?m paranoid like that lol.. I just see it as if say the person handling your PPC campaigns started up their own site competing for the same keywords and they had access to your account to see what works and what doesn?t work. It obviously doesn?t mean the person handling your PPC account is going to log in and look at it, but just the thought and possibility is something that can cause you to feel a bit uncomfortable. This is an easy fix though, they could and I?m sure they would work with you on a solution to put your mind to rest (i.e. limiting the tech access the member/affiliate data, or only logging in when you request them to fix something? and not just at random) Again this is not an attack on them, it?s just something that has been on my mind and a few other program owners minds. It has nothing to do with their credibility, just something that after seeing so many stories about messed up stuff happening in this industry, is enough to cause some concern


2.) The Price ? Alright now NATS is a great piece of software, I just personally think that since its only them and MPA3 dominating the market that they can get away with charging a bit more then they should IN MY OPINION. 150/month for running 1 site is a bit steep but its well worth it? now the thing I don?t understand is that if you want to run more then 2 sites, it jumps up to 350/month? more then double your initial monthly cost, but it makes absolutely no difference to them how many sites you run so I don?t understand why the price jump would jump up to 350/month? and if you want to run more then 5 sites, its 650/month? which is an insane amount in my opinion for leasing software? Not everyone can afford to outright purchase the software for 12,000 dollars, but they still need affiliate software to help manage their sites. I understand they put a lot of work into their software and their tech support is top notch, but I still don?t see 650/month a reasonable figure for affiliate software, but that?s just me. For a small site like mine starting out (www.juliablue.com), if you are doing 60/40 rev-share you would have to be doing 18.75 sales a month to pay for your NATS.. and that?s excluding dedicated hosting costs? also a lot of people don?t have the same business model. Not everyone wants to build 1 site to 10 joins a day then move on to adding another program. Personally I am building up 3 more sites as we speak to launch and can?t bring myself to pay 650/month to have more then 5 sites.
I?ll tell you the honest truth, that if another affiliate software program came along, I would jump ship from NATS and switch over, not because I don?t like NATS? but just because it?s not a reasonable solution for small programs such as myself? so if you are a BIG program, by all means I think NATS is the top choice. However if you are a small program, and your only option of processing is Paycom, sorry to say but you?re a bit shit out of luck as far as tracking and affiliate handling goes.



Okay now that those 2 things are out of the way, I?d like to talk about the positive things about NATS

1.) Affiliate Handling ? NATS makes this a breeze, it is EXTREMELY easy to manage affiliates, set special payouts, give them in depth stats and let them create their own campaigns to track their clicks

2.) Reports ? AMAZING reporting system, jam packed full of charts and other things that I am still learning to use to its full potential, break down stats by day / month / period / year and it breaks it down by Program / by site / by affiliate in a VERY easy to read and simple way? every day when you log in it?ll give you everything you need to know on 1 page, which affiliate is sending the most, the top converting affiliate, the worst converting affiliates, how many sales you?ve made, how many new affiliates have signed up and which of those new affiliates has thrown up links already

3.) Payments ? NATS makes paying affiliates a BREEZE. You can see who has reached minimum payout and select them as paid once you?ve paid them, and it also logs it under your affiliates overview? so if you ever have an affiliate complaining about missed payment or late payment, there will be no scrambling to look up his info because all his info will be stored under his overview

4.) Always advancing ? NATS is always improving and I must say I?m very impressed with how much work they put into it, there are always things being adding and tweaked and its nice to see them putting a lot of effort into their software (please don?t use #4 as a counter-argument about the price, lol jk)

5.) Support ? top notch support system. On top of having a huge knowledge base of tutorials you can search though, they have a ticket system that is bar-none the best I?ve ever had the pleasure of complaining and whining through? and everything is replied to within 24 hours guaranteed? and they are not outsourced tech people who have no idea what they are talking about? as bringer said the other day ?when you ask for promo material and the answer you get is Car Bird Water Hose, you stop asking questions? haha Best support I?ve ever seen




Conclusion: NATS is top notch software, and if they could just fix a couple of those things, it would be the best software available on the market and would appeal to many more people, especially the huge amount of small programs out there currently, and just starting up. Most of the people I?ve talked to who wanted to use NATS said the only thing holding them back was the price. Right now I?m okay with paying 150/month for 1 site? but for the other sites I?m launching I don?t think I will be using NATS unless they work something into their business plan that can work with smaller programs as well.

Please keep the flaming to a minimum regarding ?that?s the cost of doing business, don?t whine? because even though a lot of people portray themselves to be making multi-millions, we are not all as rich as everyone else lol.

Alright? hope some of you take the time to read all that and share some insight


Sonofsam

dropped9 10-17-2005 07:38 PM

sig spot reserved....

pubenemy 10-17-2005 07:42 PM

This thread makes me wish I had a sig.

Nader 10-17-2005 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pubenemy
This thread makes me wish I had a sig.

you can use one of ours :winkwink:

d00t 10-17-2005 07:45 PM

uhhh ohhhhh

ShaneRyale 10-17-2005 07:47 PM

NATS has worked well with our program for some time now. I agree with all of your positive points, and I'm not sure you negative points are really point, but opinions that you have regarding credibility and price.

John, Charlie and the NATS crew have been great to work with and I'm sure we'll be customers of theirs for many years to come!

SmokeyTheBear 10-17-2005 07:48 PM

good post :thumbsup ..

Patrick_Bateman 10-17-2005 07:49 PM

see sig :winkwink:

TMM_John 10-17-2005 07:49 PM

A quick reply to the negative points...

1) I've been involved in the adult industry since long before NATS was around. I know you weren't implying that I was, but I'm not here to steal any of your data. If I were looking to steal your data you would not know I was running Teen Dolls as I would have run it under another name or something. As for our employees, they are not allowed to operate adult sites due to the conflict of interest and the fact that although we totally trust them I can never trust them as much as I trust myself. They do login to systems from time to time when an issue may pop up (to see if it effects you) to work on an older ticket, check something, etc. You are more than welcome to lock them out if you feel uncomfortable. A few programs do, the vast majority don't.

2) A much easier answer... we weren't planning on announcing it quite yet but we'll be lifting (or at least greatly expanding) the site limitations on the NATS lease levels. As our support has gotten better the # of sites has become nearly irrelevant to time required on our end so we're pretty much lifting the limitation and the lease level will be (most likely) based only on sales. If we keep limits they will be like 15 for NATSlite, 30 for NATSplus, or something like that.

OK, I'm off to read the good stuff now.

Thank you sonofsam for posting something constructive and expressing your opinions :)

webgurl 10-17-2005 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaneRyale
NATS has worked well with our program for some time now. I agree with all of your positive points, and I'm not sure you negative points are really point, but opinions that you have regarding credibility and price.

John, Charlie and the NATS crew have been great to work with and I'm sure we'll be customers of theirs for many years to come!

good post shane :thumbsup

KMR Stitch 10-17-2005 07:52 PM

Pretty good read.

sonofsam 10-17-2005 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaneRyale
NATS has worked well with our program for some time now. I agree with all of your positive points, and I'm not sure you negative points are really point, but opinions that you have regarding credibility and price.

John, Charlie and the NATS crew have been great to work with and I'm sure we'll be customers of theirs for many years to come!

exactly the kind of response i was expecting

"john is a standup guy etc etc"

i know he is, i have nothing but love for the guy but i gave my review based on MY OPINION regardless of how i feel for the guy... and i too hope to be using nats for years to come :thumbsup

sonofsam 10-17-2005 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn
A quick reply to the negative points...

1) I've been involved in the adult industry since long before NATS was around. I know you weren't implying that I was, but I'm not here to steal any of your data. If I were looking to steal your data you would not know I was running Teen Dolls as I would have run it under another name or something. As for our employees, they are not allowed to operate adult sites due to the conflict of interest and the fact that although we totally trust them I can never trust them as much as I trust myself. They do login to systems from time to time when an issue may pop up (to see if it effects you) to work on an older ticket, check something, etc. You are more than welcome to lock them out if you feel uncomfortable. A few programs do, the vast majority don't.

2) A much easier answer... we weren't planning on announcing it quite yet but we'll be lifting (or at least greatly expanding) the site limitations on the NATS lease levels. As our support has gotten better the # of sites has become nearly irrelevant to time required on our end so we're pretty much lifting the limitation and the lease level will be (most likely) based only on sales. If we keep limits they will be like 15 for NATSlite, 30 for NATSplus, or something like that.

OK, I'm off to read the good stuff now.

Thank you sonofsam for posting something constructive and expressing your opinions :)

Thank you for not taking that as an attack on you and addressing the concerns, i know a lot of people felt the same way i did but they just didn't know how to word it to not come off like an attack.. You basically just squashed both of the concerns... so now that only leaves the possitives :thumbsup for you john

TMM_John 10-17-2005 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofsam
exactly the kind of response i was expecting

"john is a standup guy etc etc"

i know he is, i have nothing but love for the guy but i gave my review based on MY OPINION regardless of how i feel for the guy... and i too hope to be using nats for years to come :thumbsup

(Thanks Shane)

Just so you know sonofsam, I understand your point and wasn't offended by it at all. Profit from NATS however is currently being reinvested back into NATS (hence the constant growth and imporvement) and I still need to eat :) I can't simply give up what I've been doing for years. If someone wanted to steal your data there are lots of easier ways to do it. Again, I'm not offended at all and understand your point. As for the employees issue, it was in my reply above. I wish there was a simple solution that would make everyone forget it but this industry can be quite shady at times so there will always be a bit of nervousness with things like that. You can of course lock us out of your system if you're that uneasy with it (You being general, not you yourself). It really just comes down to someone's reputation which is what I think Shane's point was.

MrIzzz 10-17-2005 07:57 PM

i had cheeseburgers for dinner

ShaneRyale 10-17-2005 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofsam
exactly the kind of response i was expecting

"john is a standup guy etc etc"

i know he is, i have nothing but love for the guy but i gave my review based on MY OPINION regardless of how i feel for the guy... and i too hope to be using nats for years to come :thumbsup

Don't get me wrong. I thought your post was a good post that was well thought out and actually had some substance to it. Nice to see post like that on GFY. Anyone who knows John will definately say he's a good person, and I agree with everything else you had to say as well!

xlogger 10-17-2005 07:58 PM

Stealing data is so fucking easy.

I know people that can get mysql data from almost any fucking server. :1orglaugh

ShaneRyale 10-17-2005 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webgurl
good post shane :thumbsup


:thumbsup Haven't seen you in awhile, Hopefully I'll get to see you in LA!

sonofsam 10-17-2005 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaneRyale
Don't get me wrong. I thought your post was a good post that was well thought out and actually had some substance to it. Nice to see post like that on GFY. Anyone who knows John will definately say he's a good person, and I agree with everything else you had to say as well!

sorry i took your first post wrong, i thought it was like "i met this guy at a show so hes a standup guy" :winkwink:

again, i know john is a standup guy, but in this industry... shit will always play in the back of your mind because of how many bad things have happened

but the fact that he just addressed my concerns appropriately is appreciated, and i won't even be requesting to remove their access... its just something that i wanted to address as WELL as all the possitive things nats offers :thumbsup

shermo 10-17-2005 08:04 PM

Excellent post. We have been using NATS for quite some time and we have nothing but priase for the program and it's creators.

I'm also glad to hear that the pricing structure is being edited. This is great news for small site owners. :)

TMM_John 10-17-2005 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofsam
Okay now that those 2 things are out of the way, I?d like to talk about the positive things about NATS

1.) Affiliate Handling ? NATS makes this a breeze, it is EXTREMELY easy to manage affiliates, set special payouts, give them in depth stats and let them create their own campaigns to track their clicks

2.) Reports ? AMAZING reporting system, jam packed full of charts and other things that I am still learning to use to its full potential, break down stats by day / month / period / year and it breaks it down by Program / by site / by affiliate in a VERY easy to read and simple way? every day when you log in it?ll give you everything you need to know on 1 page, which affiliate is sending the most, the top converting affiliate, the worst converting affiliates, how many sales you?ve made, how many new affiliates have signed up and which of those new affiliates has thrown up links already

3.) Payments ? NATS makes paying affiliates a BREEZE. You can see who has reached minimum payout and select them as paid once you?ve paid them, and it also logs it under your affiliates overview? so if you ever have an affiliate complaining about missed payment or late payment, there will be no scrambling to look up his info because all his info will be stored under his overview

4.) Always advancing ? NATS is always improving and I must say I?m very impressed with how much work they put into it, there are always things being adding and tweaked and its nice to see them putting a lot of effort into their software (please don?t use #4 as a counter-argument about the price, lol jk)

5.) Support ? top notch support system. On top of having a huge knowledge base of tutorials you can search though, they have a ticket system that is bar-none the best I?ve ever had the pleasure of complaining and whining through? and everything is replied to within 24 hours guaranteed? and they are not outsourced tech people who have no idea what they are talking about? as bringer said the other day ?when you ask for promo material and the answer you get is Car Bird Water Hose, you stop asking questions? haha Best support I?ve ever seen




Conclusion: NATS is top notch software, and if they could just fix a couple of those things, it would be the best software available on the market and would appeal to many more people, especially the huge amount of small programs out there currently, and just starting up. Most of the people I?ve talked to who wanted to use NATS said the only thing holding them back was the price. Right now I?m okay with paying 150/month for 1 site? but for the other sites I?m launching I don?t think I will be using NATS unless they work something into their business plan that can work with smaller programs as well.

Please keep the flaming to a minimum regarding ?that?s the cost of doing business, don?t whine? because even though a lot of people portray themselves to be making multi-millions, we are not all as rich as everyone else lol.

Alright? hope some of you take the time to read all that and share some insight

Sonofsam

1) Thanks :) A lot of people seem to think NATS is "cascading" software. It really does much much more than that. It's your entire financial and administration backend for your affiliate program. You can do things with it you can't do without a fully featured affiliate back end.

2) Fabian is a stats whore :) We're always looking for ideas and concepts for new reports so please, if you can think of anything let us know and we'll see if we can pull out the data and format it pretty for you :)

3) This has been a big concern of a lot of smaller programs thinking of making the move to NATS and I'm glad to see you like the way it works. I always try to explain to them that it's not as bad as they imagine. We've also got a few new things coming soon that will improve upon affiliate payout even more. Hopefully we'll have an update on that towards the end of the month.

4) Thanks :) As I said above NATS is growing very quickly. We know we will never be perfect and we always look for the areas where we have the biggest problems or lack the most and address them while at the same time looking to expand into things no one is doing or has thought of yet. As long as we can continue to do both things should be great for a long time to come :)

5) My nemesis :) Support is hands down the hardest part of software devleopment. Things were a bit bumpy a year or so ago when we first started out (as I said, no one is perfect) but IMO we have greatly improved our support by brining on quality, intellegent, US based in house staff and training them well. Boris, Valerie, Steve, along with Fabian have done a fantasitc job at learning both the adult industry and our products. Our support turnaround continues to get better and better and clients are needing less and less support as our knowledge base grows and product improves. Jason, who just had his first day at Too Much Media looks like he will also be a great asset to us. Those of you who are our clients will be dealing with him soon enough as he has been brought on 100% for support and not for development.

Thanks again sonofsam for posting your honest thoughts about us. I know people love to start "drama" all the time. If some of them would act more mature and professional as you have and bring up their concerns in a contructive way this industry would be a much nicer place :)

TMM_John 10-17-2005 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xlogger
Stealing data is so fucking easy.

I know people that can get mysql data from almost any fucking server. :1orglaugh

Exactly. There are still a few "conspiracy theorists" out there who think NATS is a big email harvester. Believe me, if we wanted to harvest emails hiring a few overseas hackers would have been much cheaper, quicker, quieter, and less stressful.

brand0n 10-17-2005 08:07 PM

150 a month for 1 site isnt bad, but going to 350 for 2, once no change is needed is kinda a hike.

it would make sense to cut a break from the 1st 1. say charge 200 a month for the 1st then 50 a site after?

just thinking...

sonofsam 10-17-2005 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn
3) This has been a big concern of a lot of smaller programs thinking of making the move to NATS and I'm glad to see you like the way it works. I always try to explain to them that it's not as bad as they imagine. We've also got a few new things coming soon that will improve upon affiliate payout even more. Hopefully we'll have an update on that towards the end of the month.

I actually prefer paying affiliates myself, of course i havn't had the pleasure to do that as often since i am not doing payouts every day since im smaller... but i think it adds a personal touch to help create trust between the affiliate and program, instead of them just getting paid by paycom or ccbill :thumbsup

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE 10-17-2005 08:09 PM

In all honesty I do not know why anyone would agree with the compromise of sensitive program information with a company that holds a conflict of interest.

I will never be a fan of NATS for more reasons than that alone. The kind of reasons that span a conflict of interest for the whole industry.

Peeps that use NATS must be insane.

sonofsam 10-17-2005 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brand0n
150 a month for 1 site isnt bad, but going to 350 for 2, once no change is needed is kinda a hike.

it would make sense to cut a break from the 1st 1. say charge 200 a month for the 1st then 50 a site after?

just thinking...

he just addressed that and they are going to be doin an overhaul :thumbsup

TMM_John 10-17-2005 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brand0n
150 a month for 1 site isnt bad, but going to 350 for 2, once no change is needed is kinda a hike.

it would make sense to cut a break from the 1st 1. say charge 200 a month for the 1st then 50 a site after?

just thinking...

The 150 covered up to 2 sites and if a program was new and struggling with sales and talked to us we always allowed them more.

However, we are almost definately doing away totally with the site limits. If we don't do away with them they will be much much much higher so there shouldn't be an issue anymore.

abyss_al 10-17-2005 08:10 PM

nats is bomb... we have been using them on some 'secret site' for a while now... great stuff... and he bought me a drink in AZ after we had a looong talk :thumbsup

price: nothing wrong with it imo... for a starter, 150 is nothing, thats if the site is being launched right, then the owner should have the budget for it, not mickey moused in hopes when it makes money etc etc... goes for multiple sites too..

:upsidedow

TMM_John 10-17-2005 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofsam
I actually prefer paying affiliates myself, of course i havn't had the pleasure to do that as often since i am not doing payouts every day since im smaller... but i think it adds a personal touch to help create trust between the affiliate and program, instead of them just getting paid by paycom or ccbill :thumbsup

I agree. It makes you also look like a more established company. It builds trust with affiliates quite quickly when payments come from you on time.

Head_Hunter 10-17-2005 08:16 PM

Very good post and i stand by what i said about you the other night :thumbsup

nofx 10-17-2005 08:17 PM

sos you be crazy

<3

SmokeyTheBear 10-17-2005 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn
A quick reply to the negative points...

1) I've been involved in the adult industry since long before NATS was around. I know you weren't implying that I was, but I'm not here to steal any of your data. If I were looking to steal your data you would not know I was running Teen Dolls as I would have run it under another name or something. As for our employees, they are not allowed to operate adult sites due to the conflict of interest and the fact that although we totally trust them I can never trust them as much as I trust myself. They do login to systems from time to time when an issue may pop up (to see if it effects you) to work on an older ticket, check something, etc. You are more than welcome to lock them out if you feel uncomfortable. A few programs do, the vast majority don't.

2) A much easier answer... we weren't planning on announcing it quite yet but we'll be lifting (or at least greatly expanding) the site limitations on the NATS lease levels. As our support has gotten better the # of sites has become nearly irrelevant to time required on our end so we're pretty much lifting the limitation and the lease level will be (most likely) based only on sales. If we keep limits they will be like 15 for NATSlite, 30 for NATSplus, or something like that.

OK, I'm off to read the good stuff now.

Thank you sonofsam for posting something constructive and expressing your opinions :)

good response :thumbsup

MikeSmoke 10-17-2005 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn
we weren't planning on announcing it quite yet but we'll be lifting (or at least greatly expanding) the site limitations on the NATS lease levels. As our support has gotten better the # of sites has become nearly irrelevant to time required on our end so we're pretty much lifting the limitation and the lease level will be (most likely) based only on sales. If we keep limits they will be like 15 for NATSlite, 30 for NATSplus, or something like that.

Now that is GREAT news, John :-)
Is there any time frame on this? I've been holding off on deciding a bunch of stuff just because of the site limitations, so the sooner the better ;-)

XPays 10-17-2005 08:30 PM

The choices are limited out there and if you do not like using other people's software for your affiliate program, then you would have to code it yourself. Economies of scale kick in when you choose to go with a third party solution and it would definitely cost you a grip to code your own affiliate software- let alone maintain it and improve it etc. fyi.

poorwebmaster 10-17-2005 08:34 PM

interesting..well, see sig

sonofsam 10-17-2005 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XPays
The choices are limited out there and if you do not like using other people's software for your affiliate program, then you would have to code it yourself. Economies of scale kick in when you choose to go with a third party solution and it would definitely cost you a grip to code your own affiliate software- let alone maintain it and improve it etc. fyi.

the only concerns i had with the software have been addressed and solved, everything else i was completely happy with :2 cents:

XPays 10-17-2005 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofsam
the only concerns i had with the software have been addressed and solved, everything else i was completely happy with :2 cents:

what was your rant about then in the first post besides the software? that did not read like a greeting card exactly, lol.

sonofsam 10-17-2005 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XPays
what was your rant about then in the first post besides the software? that did not read like a greeting card exactly, lol.

well if you read the initial post and then johns followup post you'll see

vvq 10-17-2005 08:47 PM

good questions. great answers. NATS rocks :)

boner 2.0 10-17-2005 09:00 PM

I've bookmarked this thread for future reading :thumbsup


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