Democracy, the only chance for the Middle East?
 

Democracy, consensual governments, well-developed capital markets, western liberalism. These are the best chances to save a society that has lost it's way in the world of nations.

It's no accident that Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria are not WTO members.

When will the Middle East miracle happen?

The Arab world is like Europe in the 15th century.
Only time can cause that religion will have less influence over there.

I also think electric fences around middle-east could work. Especially if all of their airports and harbors would get bombed too.

civil war is the only chance

Hummmm. Maybe they would like that: would keep the " infidels " out!

As long as the US tries to convert everyone to christianity, we all lose.

That's what I thought too. Not to prevent them from leaving, but to preven us infidels entering.

That's exactly what the followers of Qutb and their kind want. They want to be disconnected from the word - free to live in their 7th century fantasyland.

i think the biggest problem they have is religion. they cannot take apart religion from politics. they need a secular state.

i dont think that the solution is bombing them or invading them... that simply would make them more lunatics!!

I have wondered why we, in the west, assume that democracy is something others value.

American history is filled with the slaughter of the undemocratic heathen native peoples.

Why must this be repeated in the middle east?

LOL... sounds like America....


They had one ... now it is fucked up and religion is on the up and coming... ( remember how proud Georgie was when the Shiites demonstrated in the street... He said sort of: look, theuy are free... what an idiot)

Agreed. And BTW, I think it would make anybody more " lunatic" ....

That's the same question people posed about the citizens of the Soviet Union throughout the whole Cold War. Statements such as "they obviously don't want Democracy. If they did, they would have it" were common and also - in the end - wrong.

The real answer to your question. Some do, some don't and some don't understand the question. In that big poll conducted last year inside Iraq, 60% of Baghdad residents said that a "European version" government would be acceptable. Only 17% said a goverment "like Saudi" would be acceptable. No one ever asks the basic question - how would you prefer your government to be chosen?

I think the question we should be asking is whether the world will be a better place if the holdout countries of the world who are ruled by nonconsensual governments at gunpoint and who have illiberal law systems and economic policies become democracies.

The facts of history are totally plain. The ONLY places and times that have seen anything approaching peaceful co-existance have been counrties that are not only democracies, but also are trading with each other.

It has been proven over and over again that when people are free to chose their own goverment on a regular basis, and that they are doing business with their neighbors, then wars tend not to happen.

The only hope that the middle east has is to go that route IMO, and the world is TOO small of a place these days to allow an area of medieval feudelism to fester and (inevitably) spill out into the rest of the planet.:2 cents:

democracy is tyranny in the hands of the people. the correct answer is the construct a constitutional republic.



51% of the people should not be alowed to dictate what the other 49% does.

your right... what they need is another Saddam Hussein. He also got 100% of the vote in the last election his government held.

This thread reminds me i should be working now on my masters degree, lol.

There is no direct democracy at the level of nations anywhere in the world. I assumed most people understand "democracy" to mean a pretty wide range of representational governments.

baaaaahhhh

holy shit you make me laugh sometimes

I think it says something that dictators try to make their countries look like democracies.

So in your opinion, what would be the " proper acceptable" figure?

What you find over and over again when dictatorships seize power is that they ban elections and outlaw dissent. In which countries ruled by dictatorships is one permitted to publicly criticize their government?

Look at what happened in the USSR. it took a whole 6 years from glasnost until the Communists were out of power.

Incidentally, with the advent of the internet it becomes feasible that one day there could be direct democracies.

You are far away from the truth when You say that

hahaha!

good point!

wrong. not much correlation at all between trade and piece

Probably when the Saudi's get off the fence and fall on one side or the other. They walk the line better than anyone.

The only chance is education.

why do you care?

they shall do their own thing..

You know, that makes me think about what Bush recently said about it's being Iraq's choice if they wanted to bring Sadr into the government, the reason being he has a support base over there. I think if an honest poll were conducted you'd still find a large Saddam support base, if so it's only fair he gets on the ballot too...:evil-laug

Which Democracies in the 20th century that were big trading partners have gone to war directly against each other?

haha.

too late for that my friend. you are aware that there is an invention called "news" and with this invention you can keep up with current events such as things like "war", "invasion", "bombing' and "occupation"?

Give peace in Iraq a chance!

FREE SADDAM!

yeah its really too late... but we've to think about WHY terror exists.. they've a reason... i don't think they all want to die for fun...

why do they hate america / europe etc?
somebody said.. hey wassup its a lame day.. what about we're hating some countries... ?

We're not Muslims.

why?

why?

why?


why did a bunch of thugs in about the 6th century suddenly decide to follow a little respected flake who was run out of Mecca and start slashing, hacking and murdering their way through most of europe to spread "the truth"

who cares?

some of my friends are muslims.. and they're living next door...
np with that... most of them are cool.. its just a religion.. nothing different..

god is called allah and they don't eat pig...

some of them are in america.. running restaurants, paying taxes ( that are spend for stupid wars) ..

Just put up windmill's and other energy producing items on your homes, and get some alternate fuel vehicles. Beat the rush.
Your kids will thank you, hehe.

Bonus: In many states, the prevailing electrical company is required to purchase all of your surplus energy.

off topic? I doubt it :winkwink:

uh.. well.. its just a religion except for the "behead all the infidels", "your duty is to die in Jihad" and "you will be greeted in paradise by a gaggle of virgins to fullfil your every erotic desire" parts.

Muslims living in a Democracy. See!

In my opinion, I think we gotta respect each others custom, beliefs, traditions & religions and things will be okay... the key word RESPECT