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-   -   Ok. The term "Oriental" is bad when applied to an Asian person. (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=457629)

Cory W 04-19-2005 12:11 PM

Ok. The term "Oriental" is bad when applied to an Asian person.
 
I noticed the other thread a debate on this arose. I did not write this. But it is what I have always understood.

Quote:

Many Asians find the term "oriental," when used in reference to people, to be offensive. The reasons for this sensitivity are manifold, but some of the most important ones are listed below.

* It brings up unfortunate chapters in our global history. The terms "Orient" and "oriental" were popularized in the heyday of Western colonialism, when nations to the South and East of Europe were seen as ripe for subjugation and exploitation. As a result, usage of the term is an automatic cue for references to the British Raj, the Opium War, the occupation of the Phillipines, and other events and periods in which the inhabitants of Asian countries were enslaved, victimized, or otherwise mistreated by Europeans (and later, Americans).

* It has problematic racial and political connotations. While "Orient" translates simply as "The East," over time, an ideological paradigm emerged that spun itself around the term: The Orient was seen as the farthest point from civilization (i.e. Europe) and thus a region of barbarism, exotic custom, and strange delight. "Orientals" were conceived of as mysterious and inscrutable, with traditions and beliefs so different as to be inhuman - and thus requiring of either speculative study or religious evangelism. As social historian Edward Said detailed in his seminal book of that name, the intent and result of orientalism was the objectification of cultures in Asia and the Middle East, providing a rationale for colonial subjugation, missionary conversion, and military adventure, it later also created a context for domestic racism and xenophobia.

* It's nonspecific. As perceived by Western Europeans, "The Orient" included all of Turkey, the Middle East, Asia and to a lesser extent the Pacific Islands. An Iranian was therefore just as "Oriental" as a Chinese person, though in contemporary times, the term is never used in that manner. While "Asian" is not much more specific, it at least is a term bounded by geography, rather than paradigm. It would be difficult to argue that "Orientals" shared anything in common, other than in the feverish minds of European orientalists.

* It doesn't have an appropriate counterpart. The most subtle yet invidious problem with the term "Oriental" is that it stands alone: No one refers to Europeans as "Occidentals." Consider the term "Orient" only has meaning in the West; in the East, it is the Americas and Europe that are foreign and "outside," and most Asian cultures have similar but inverted conceptions referring to "The West." Hemispheric definitions are always problematic, since the world is, after all, round; but at least the terms East and West don't come loaded with imagery and history of "Orient" and "Occident."

* It's more appropriately used for inanimate objects. The establishment of trade routes linking the nations of Asia and the Middle East (which occurred long before the opening of Asia to the West) meant that commodities and other goods were regularly transmitted between cultures. As a result, when one refers to Oriental spices or rugs, one has a stable rationale from which to speak: spices and rugs are among the only things that the mixed bags of peoples known as "Orientals" actually had in common. In general, the use of the adjective in relation to inanimate objects or abstract concepts has largely been considered acceptable, if not embraced (there are people who still prefer speaking of Asian spices, or breaking down rugs into Persian, Indian, and Chinese carpets).

* Some people don't like it. Many Asians find the term distasteful; the term has also been eliminated from usage in journalism and entertainment. The rule of thumb is simple: rather than risk offending, just don't bother - the term "Asian" is neutral, widely accepted - and safe.

Cory W 04-19-2005 12:12 PM

Pay attention to the last one.

"Some people don't like it. Many Asians find the term distasteful; the term has also been eliminated from usage in journalism and entertainment. The rule of thumb is simple: rather than risk offending, just don't bother - the term "Asian" is neutral, widely accepted - and safe."

thaifan99 04-19-2005 12:13 PM

I know many who prefer to be known as oriental.

GOM as opposed to GAM. They dont wanna be mistaken for our darker skinned friends.

Sarah_Jayne 04-19-2005 12:14 PM

the only problem I have in the UK is that when I say Asian over here it means people from India or Pakistan. A lot of people over here use Oriental in reference to people from China, Korea, Japan, etc but since I have always been told the same thing as what you posted says I have mental blocks of using the term in regards to a human being. So, I have had to go with 'far eastern' or Japanese, etc if I know the nationality.

Then it all goes reverse when I go back home.

CheeseFrog 04-19-2005 12:14 PM

I've used "Oriental" in the past, and I don't see what the big deal is. I didn't realize I was offending myself :(

Cory W 04-19-2005 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaifan99
I know many who prefer to be known as oriental.

GOM as opposed to GAM. They dont wanna be mistaken for our darker skinned friends.

Yes, but where do they live?

wdsguy 04-19-2005 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaifan99
I know many who prefer to be known as oriental.

GOM as opposed to GAM. They dont wanna be mistaken for our darker skinned friends.


Maybe its different over there in Europe.

I've grown up in california and never in my life have I heard the term oriental being used. If someone said that, I don't think it would be taken too well.

Trixxxia 04-19-2005 12:14 PM

Thanks Cory - I never knew it was offensive - I'm guilty of using it when someone asks 'what nationality are they?' and I don't know for sure. I'll sleep less ignorant tonight for sure :)

Cory W 04-19-2005 12:15 PM

The term is what it is really, if it offends, it is offensive .... like everything.

I do not mind being called a cracka' :)

Tipsy 04-19-2005 12:16 PM

If people find it offensive then it probably shouldn't be used simply because of that. However - what a load of total bollocks much of the stuff in the first quote is. The guy who originally wrote it is obviously desparate to prove a point that's shakey at best.

Cory W 04-19-2005 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdsguy
Maybe its different over there in Europe.

I've grown up in california and never in my life have I heard the term oriental being used. If someone said that, I don't think it would be taken too well.


Also, they may not get offended, but will automatically assume you are not worldly.

For example, if you are in an interview and use the term "oriental," they may conclude you are not sophisticated.

Fletch XXX 04-19-2005 12:17 PM

race threads are ALWAYS good for affiliate sign ups!

:thumbsup

Anthony 04-19-2005 12:17 PM

There's a saying.

Oriental is used when describing a thing.

Asian when describing a person.

Hope that helps.

Cory W 04-19-2005 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tipsy
If people find it offensive then it probably shouldn't be used simply because of that. However - what a load of total bollocks much of the stuff in the first quote is. The guy who originally wrote it is obviously desparate to prove a point that's shakey at best.


Actually, I think that one is the original fuel. That is the big one.

cherrylula 04-19-2005 12:18 PM

My asian friends and korean relatives always say "oriental is a rug."

Cory W 04-19-2005 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony
There's a saying.

Oriental is used when describing a thing.

Asian when describing a person.

Hope that helps.

Exactly.

Cory W 04-19-2005 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherrylula
My asian friends and korean relatives always say "oriental is a rug."

Again Exactly!

I have always been told that.

Tipsy 04-19-2005 12:20 PM

Also worth saying as someone mentioned above it's often different in different countries. In the UK for instance the term 'Asian' very rarely if ever gets used to describe Chinese etc, whereas 'Oriental' does. The term 'Asian' in the UK is almost exclusively used for the Indian, Pakistani and similar communities. As far as I'm aware many Chinese in the UK (certainly all that I've known) are happy to be described as Oriental, although usually even happier to be called Chinese :)

mardigras 04-19-2005 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaifan99
I know many who prefer to be known as oriental.

Probably a similar pecrentage as people who preferred to be called negro.

webgurl 04-19-2005 12:21 PM

Hmmm to me the only offensive word I don't like is "chink" anything else i don't really care

koreanbbque 04-19-2005 12:22 PM

I hate all fucking orientals.

LOL


j/k

I don't really care. just call me korean and it's all good.

Sly 04-19-2005 12:22 PM

I know black people that don't mind being called "colored". I know others that find it absolutely disgusting and will totally flip out.

I believe in intent more than wordage. It's too hard to play the PC game in hopes of not offending others. Someone will ALWAYS be offended no matter how PC you think you are. Hell, we sell porn online, that is VERY offensive to a decent chunk of the country.

Cory W 04-19-2005 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly
I know black people that don't mind being called "colored". I know others that find it absolutely disgusting and will totally flip out.

I believe in intent more than wordage. It's too hard to play the PC game in hopes of not offending others. Someone will ALWAYS be offended no matter how PC you think you are. Hell, we sell porn online, that is VERY offensive to a decent chunk of the country.

Remember when we were being forced to say "African-American" in all cases?

That was terrible. I don't mind being PC but there should be a word and syllable limit on these things.

Cory W 04-19-2005 12:26 PM

I prefer "white-boy."

That is what the "African-Americans" call me on the basketball court.

I tend to like it.

thaifan99 04-19-2005 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WEG Cory
I prefer "white-boy."

That is what the "African-Americans" call me on the basketball court.

I tend to like it.

Crunk wigga!

JUSTB 04-19-2005 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WEG Cory
Remember when we were being forced to say "African-American" in all cases?

That was terrible. I don't mind being PC but there should be a word and syllable limit on these things.


That's about the same time I stopped saying oriental.

Sly 04-19-2005 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WEG Cory
Remember when we were being forced to say "African-American" in all cases?

That was terrible. I don't mind being PC but there should be a word and syllable limit on these things.

Actually, I absolutely refuse to say "African-American". I don't think I've ever used the term. I am NOT European-American, German-American, Irish-American, Dutch-American, or English-American. A black man in France is not African-French. A black woman in Germany is not African-German.

Some people don't like being called black either. WTF am I supposed to do? Poll every person I ever meet to find out acceptable terms? My solution: I don't make friends with those people. I don't expect others to walk on egg shells with me, I expect the same in return.

Meta Ridley 04-19-2005 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony
There's a saying.

Oriental is used when describing a thing.

Asian when describing a person.

Hope that helps.


Why don't they call "Russians" Asians?

smack 04-19-2005 12:35 PM

people need to stop getting offended by words. words are nothing but a collection of sounds. the only thing that makes them offensive is the conotation. but if you do not acknowledge the conotation, the word has no power.

Jace 04-19-2005 12:37 PM

why do I have an oriental restaurant right down the road from me if they hate that term so much?

Jace 04-19-2005 12:38 PM

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...tal+restaurant

they must not hate it that much to create so many restaurants and companies with the term oriental in the name

Fletch XXX 04-19-2005 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaceXXX
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...tal+restaurant

they must not hate it that much to create so many restaurants and companies with the term oriental in the name

rappers have not abandoned the N word either.

its called exploitation of suffering.

the concept equates to more profit than most are willing to recognize, but its why events such as Tsunamis and Holocausts make people so much money.

fact. suffering and exploitation of suffering = profit

RedShoe 04-19-2005 12:42 PM

I'm Oriental. So.
And yes whoever said that "things are oriental, people are asian" is correct.

And as far as the russians go. (someone mentioned it) If they want their stuff to be known as russian and the people to be known as U.S.S.R.ian I'm cool with that.

So, does anyone here know any U.S.S.R.ians?

eroswebmaster 04-19-2005 12:43 PM

I'm a cracker.

CDSmith 04-19-2005 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly
Actually, I absolutely refuse to say "African-American". I don't think I've ever used the term. I am NOT European-American, German-American, Irish-American, Dutch-American, or English-American. A black man in France is not African-French. A black woman in Germany is not African-German.

Some people don't like being called black either. WTF am I supposed to do? Poll every person I ever meet to find out acceptable terms? My solution: I don't make friends with those people. I don't expect others to walk on egg shells with me, I expect the same in return.

Perfect post. :thumbsup

All the newage politically correct bullshit is just that... bullshit. I can remember a time when many Canadians felt offended when called "Canuck", yet nowadays most of us couldn't give two shits about it. But SOME still get offended by it for some reason, and I say the problem is with them, not those saying "Canuck".

If someone says someone is "oriental" big deal. Get over it. Look to the intent of how someone's using a word. If the intent is malicious, THEN it's time to get offended. Used in casual conversation is no cause for someone getting all stupid about a word.

CDSmith 04-19-2005 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony
There's a saying.

Oriental is used when describing a thing. Asian when describing a person.

Good. Since content is a thing, I'm okay in describing my Asian content as Oriental. :D

Thanks.

thaifan99 04-19-2005 12:48 PM

Im white.....sometimes grey/blue.......other times very red..........if in lucky a deep brown.

AdultInsider Cloner 04-19-2005 12:50 PM

everyone is offended by something. you can't please everybody all the time

sumphatpimp 04-19-2005 12:52 PM

so did you ever notice, when a Chinese take out food place moves into the neighborhood you don't seem to see the usual dead dogs and cats lying on the roads?
funny how that works isn't it?

Cory W 04-19-2005 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaceXXX
why do I have an oriental restaurant right down the road from me if they hate that term so much?

The restaraunt is inanimate. Not a person. So they are refering to the place which host food of the orient.

Not the staff...


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