<<<ASACP.. Simple Question. Why do you accept MONEY from people associated with CP?
 

You won't answer in icq, or in e mail. And your stance here by Tim said that basically if it was on a user submitted site it's different.

At the end of the day ASACP is accepting money from people as sponsors. These people who give ASACP money are on torrent sites where if you look you will find CP, and CP terms.

So basically for example AFF is on many torrent sites, I can go there search and find CP, and things labeled as CP. Aff has banners on these sites and refuses to remove them. So AFF makes money from pages with CP, and then pays money to torrent sites who traffic CP. AFF then gives money to ASACP and gets a high bro status.

So my question is simple. Why when you say you have a ZERO tolerance policy do you accept money that is 2 degrees away from CP?

Thanks for your answer...

is this seat taken?

:batman :batman

can I squeeze in ?:Oh crap

Tim posted in a thread before their stance, and said they had a Zero Tolerance policy.

But, if I go to piratebay, or torrentz I can find CP, and I also see AFF banners there.

Here is how it works for those who are slow.

AFF banner on torrent site, CP on same page.

Surfer clicks AFF banner, joins AFF. The torrent site and AFF make money from this sale.

Torrent site as the affiliate, and AFF as the site owner. Keep in mind this person was on a page where you can download CP.

AFF then takes money from their bank account and makes a donation to ASACP.

How is this ZERO tolerance?

this doesnt mean AFF is associated with CP

are you really this stupid?

I like calzones.

Associated, this can be argued.

If you pay money to people who provide a service that traffics CP around the net, what exactly does that make you?

If they are advertising on a site that traffics in CP, I'd have to say they are associated.

As I asked in another thread and was ignored

Where I am from ZERO tolerance means there is no grey area, no fence to walk on. If you are in any way shape or form affiliated with something my ZERO tolerance rule would say sorry I refuse to work with you until you clean up your act.

But, with ASACP it appears they have a different view on ZERO tolerance. For them it appears that as long as you are not the one trafficking CP then your money is good, if people you pay money do that's ok, as long as your not the one touching it.

So this means I can open a site and people can trade videos and pictures on it, some of those pictures and videos will in fact be CP, but everything on the site is submitted by end users, I don't actually touch it. I just give people a place to trade CP and other types of media. And this would not be against their Zero Tolerance policy and they would accept me as a sponsor and allow me to put the ASACP logo on my site.

Who cares that I am single handedly helping traffic and spread CP around the net, and giving a place for people to do it. As long as I'm not actually uploading it to the server, but letting others do-so it's all within their ZERO tolerance policy as something that is acceptable.

Actually, I would have to agree. If they know about it and still refuse to deal with the issue, then they are the issue.

you might get banned for this thread.....

The truth gets you banned?

What exactly is ban able here?

I dont care what anyone says there is a conflict of interest on this issue:2 cents:

They seem more occupied with raising money these days. Just take a look at their press releases over the last couple years compared to the years before. It used to be press releases about how many sites they shut down, now it's who donted money and where you can donate more.

http://www.asacp.org/page.php?content=press

Well that and what shows they will be at sharing drinks with the bros.

ASACP is much more a political organization at this point, and really not much about CP per se, IMHO. They are more about pushing a certain group of people's agenda than actually making things better. Again, one of the reasons why they aren't part of the "solution" at this point.

Good point. I think we are truly missing a group that actively targets CP and does everything they can to get it off the web. From contacting authorities, contacting hosts, contacting registrars, as well as other advertisers listed on their sites.

I'm sure the ASACP does some nice stuff. They spread some information and are a professional face to the cause. But I think something more aggressive is needed to combat it.

What is needed as simple. Someone who will fight CP at all costs, and help bring more credibility to our industry.

The US gov is trying to limit the online porn world day and night, and no matter what law they pass, or try to pass they do it in the name of protecting children.

I can say that "MOST" of us in adult want nothing to do with CP, and what's going on and the pussy footing around it is fucking just sad.

We need someone who will shut down sites plain and simple.

for the aggravation that these sites cause everyone, the torrent community and leech sites should be blackballed from adult interaction period.

this isn't going away. much more drama is coming over these torrent sites. to me they are just one giant liability to everyone involved.

just get rid of them. everyone.

they should be thrown out on their asses to fend for themselves in mainstream. let them play solely with the mpaa and riaa and see how that ends up working out for them.

That was ASACP's original goal (when it was adult sites against child porn), but when ti became Association of Sites Advocating Child Protection, they shifted 180 degrees away from working to stop child porn and over to trying to install adult meta tags and filtering. Being "Association of Sites Advocating Child Protection" is a much more politically acceptable concept, I guess, and gives them the apparent latitude to work on various things. It also means that CP isn't their only priority.

As a donation based non profit organization, they are beholden to their large contributors. That is just a sad fact of the setup.

In a word . . . yes.

My biggest disappointment with ASACP is the lack of progress they've made. Meta tags are cute and all, but anyone promoting CP doesn't give two shit about meta tags and whether kids come across their sites.

A true group looking to stop CP needs to team up with hosts and registrars. Being able to have a direct line into a registrar like GoDaddy to let them know of potential CP would be great. They would request verification from the offending party within a week or so and then close the account down or let it stay. These groups can work in conjunction with law enforcement to provide them with more information.

We need a group that represents the adult community and is very aggressive. It will help stop the comparisions that all porn is child porn and so on. The industry needs to take a zero tolerance approach to CP so that the government and public knows that we fight harder against it than anyone.

you ever heard the term guilty by association?


you are proving to be quite the ignorant waste of human flesh

The burden of proof for copyrights should be on the site operators not on the copyright owners.

To monitor every site out there would take night and day, and still they would ignore/stonewall you.

If you can't prove you own the copyright or have the rights to host/link a copyrighted product, it shouldn't be posted (except for acceptable use).

If you do own the copyright and other sites are illegally posting/profiting from it, they should be forced to shut down and pay back their ill gotten gains.

Thieves suck...

ADG

I feel ya, man... but one issue at a time. :winkwink:

I think you need to lookup the definition of associated before you make your next post :2 cents:

Ok if I am so stupid, please CLEARLY explain why this is ok?

if I go to piratebay, or torrentz I can find CP, and I also see AFF banners there.

Here is how it works for those who are slow.

AFF banner on torrent site, CP on same page.

Surfer clicks AFF banner, joins AFF. The torrent site and AFF make money from this sale.

Torrent site as the affiliate, and AFF as the site owner. Keep in mind this person was on a page where you can download CP.

AFF then takes money from their bank account and makes a donation to ASACP.

How is this ZERO tolerance?

I dont forsee AFF or ASACP posting in this thread so I don't think it is going to go far.

ASACP has made their postion very clear.....

It is ok to be a donor and member of their organization if you advertise on sites with user submitted CP but it is not ok to advertise on a site where the owner puts the cp on the page.

Like if it matters who put the cp on the page, isn't still cp and exploiting children?

And Tim's comparison of Torrents sites to other sites with user submitted content like Myspace, Youtube, Facebook was laughably at best. Those sites I mentioned do not commonly have CP on them and in the rare cases they do the site admin deletes is and notifies the authorities. Where as Torrents are known for cp, scat, animal sex, etc... and try to contact them about it and see what they do, lol. nothing.

100&#37; no tolerance policy except when it is user generated cp. I though 100% no tolerance had no " excepts" followed behind it... i guess it depends on the site donating the money.

It's a shame when an organization like ASACP turns a blind eye to CP just because a company like AFF makes donations, I wonder what the media would have to say about it? ZERO Tolerance should mean ZERO Tolerance!

You know..... Now your starting to get into the realm of "crazies"... There are far more "targets" to go after than ASACP at this point.. As much as some people bitch about them, they're doing good and need support of other companies to carry on that work... Going after ASACP when there are more truly dirty companies out there to go after is just going to make you seem like nutjobs... Focus on the top level important things... ASACP should be at the bottom of the list of groups to pull into this issue right now.

But hey.. whatever... the mob mentality is not known for having brains.

Tempest, have you considered that because AFF is paying at least some of the bills over there that they may end up being "lighter" on torrent sites, say deciding not to report them to the FBI because "torrent sites don't host the content"?

To quote House of Pain: "Yo, the time has come for everyone to clean up their own backyard Before they go knocking on their neighbour's door" - ASACP is suppose to be for the industry and for the good of the industry. If that isn't our backyard, I would like to know where it is.

Gotta love these organizations and thier blind eyes

Tempest here is the main issue, and there are many more after this.

ASACP is supposed to represent the adult industry as our police and show that we are VERY serious about fighting CP, and not being associated with it in no way shape or form.

It's very hard to be considered a legitimate industry as it is, when we show that we have our own way of policing it, it shows a lot.

When the person we all put a lot of money into is found to be 2 degrees away from what their entire organization stands for it makes it very hard to take them serious, and it's a big negative for our entire industry in itself.

I love what I do, and want to continue what I do for a long time, we already looked down upon by many people, and the more fuel we give them the bigger the fire is going to be.

RawAlex, VG.Content:

My point is that now is not the time to include ASACP in the "witch hunt" mentality that occurs on GFY... Discussions (not "why are you allowing this" type of accusations etc.) with them about this issue should be happening behind the scenes while all the other stuff plays out in the spotlight.. Allow them to get informed about this issue (clearly inform them about all the issues and how it makes them look etc. etc. etc.) and make a policy decision and statement.. We've already seen Fleshlight take the first step with their policy (enforcement will be key and something everyone needs to keep an eye on). AFF will either follow suit or there will be lawsuits at which time they will have made their intent perfectly clear in everyone's eyes and ASACP could drop them at that point.

As you stated yourself, ASACP is suposed to represent the adult industry. By dragging them into this in the spotlight, all you do is give people outside this industry ammunition to use against it, saying ASACP turns a blind eye etc. and thus there needs to be tougher laws. Just as much as ASACP needs to represent us, we also need to "protect" them from being dismissed as nothing more than a token organization. As much as they're not "perfect", they're all we have at this point.

Anyway, I've said my :2 cents:.. carry on..

Tempest obviously you have no paid attention.

ASACP made a statement on here a few days ago saying they saw nothing wrong with what AFF was doing. That a torrent site was like myspace, or facebook etc. And that AFF had nothing to do with the CP.

When questioned about it they blew a lot of smoke and said nothing else really.

Basically saying they saw nothing wrong with torrent sites for the most part.

I have also e mailed Joan and Tim a number of times about the issue, asking what they thought and etc and they went with no reply.

Why ignore a number of e mails from someone with concern?

Tempest, no matter the circumstances, it isn't to our interest to allow the companies that support torrents (and torrent sites that link and aid the download of CP) to be in positions of influence.

ASACP isn't getting witchhunted - they are being asked to clarify their position on these things, and to explain why they see no contridiction in receiving their funding from a company that (in at least some small part) profits indirectly from the distribution of CP.

It would be really nice if ASACP would say "We have formally asked AFF to examine it's policies regarding torrent and file trading sites, as there is apparently no way to control where and when their ads appear, and that at times, these sites provide clear links to CP. ASACP is an organization against CP, and cannot have any of it's key sponsors involved in any way in the the plague we are trying to obliterate".

All they have to do is grow some attachments.

Do you have the link or remember some words from the title so I can search for that.. I missed seeing it.

fucking-around-and-business-discussion/760124-look-supporting-funding-child-porn-bestiality-guess.html

The site shown here does have CP on it, and has stuff that is VERY questionable.

Well I read their response and found it to be nothing more than the typical boiler plate stuff from an organization that doesn't understand that Torrent sites, file sharing sites, p2p etc. will always contain CP and other illegal content and are used to break the law and so should fundamentally be off limits.. In fact.. according to AFFs own terms they are supposed to be. Given the responses in that thread.. the "fuck you" by libertine etc., I'm sure ASACP has talked to AFF and been "spun" as opposed to any level headed discussions from the other side. Who would you "believe".. the organization that you have a relationship with and that reports CP etc. to you on a consistent basis or a bunch of people you don't know calling you names etc.

I doubt I'll change anyones mind about how they approach this... I just would like to see something good come out of all the hype as opposed to it just blowing up because it turns into just a bunch of crazy people