Patriot Act: Slippery slop has begun...
 

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/03/09/14...tid=123&tid=99

http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid...&cat=terrorism

"New Terror Laws Used Against Common Criminals"

And I think that answers Pathfinder's question...

No surprise. He is a ... piece of shit.


FROM ANOTHER ARTICLE:

'...Federal Government Overlords....

Oh wait, we've had them since 1776. DOH!!'

Most lawmakers admit that they never read the bill before voting on it. Put simply, from October 23 to October 26, a massive piece of legislation was rammed through both the House of Representatives and Senate, without public hearings of any sort. The USA Patriot Act was sold as the legal measures required to prevent future terroristic attacks on U.S. soil. In the wake of the September 11, 2001 Massacre, the American people were gripped in fear. Any and all measures of self-protection seemed desirable. But in the hysteria, the people of this country allowed its President, aided and abetted by both houses of the federal legislature, to essentially violate the U.S. Constitution and, in turn, strip away the basic civil liberties embodied in the Bill of Rights. This was done in the name of "national security".

The USA Patriot Act (PA) is composed of many laws already on the books that are designed to counter terrorism in the U.S. What distinguishes the Patriot Act from these pre-September 11 laws is its ENABLING characteristics. Put simply, the criminal statutes, investigative rules and court procedures which safeguarded our constitutionally guaranteed civil liberties in previous anti-terror legislation were stripped away. They have been replaced by a system Executive Branch fiat, now institutionalized in the department of Homeland Security. How did the USA Patriot Act accomplish this feat?

The USA Patriot Act effectively eliminated:

FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious labor, and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigation.

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records requests.

FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.

RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.

FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans' personal records, business documents and telephone/internet activity without probable cause to assist terror investigation.

RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.

RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront the witnesses against them.

While many Americans were led by the Bush administration to believe that the Patriot Act was solely directed at foreign nationals in the U.S. who may pose a military threat to citizens and property (specifically people of Southwest Asian and North African descent--a vulgarian version of racial profiling), it swiftly emerged that the actual day-to-day targets of the Patriot Act were U.S. citizens and legal aliens. Overwhelmingly, they have suffered the abuses of federal police policies which have led to public humiliation, invasion of personal privacy, intimidation, movement control and monitoring, capricious arrest and detention, and denial of legal remedy in the court system.

This makes me quite scared, and indeed ashamed, to be headed back to my Homeland. I hope my vote can do something to help undo this. A patriot is someone who makes their country the place it should be, not someone who lets the government do anything.

It was only a matter of time...

The whole "chemical weapons" thing would be great comedy if it didn't involve some dumb tweaker getting locked up for life.

Bush's Justice Department is using unconstitutional anti-terror laws against gamblers and drug users, who have nothing to do with terror.

I thought right wingers wanted "less government"? :1orglaugh

<center><img src="http://www.whitehouse.org/homeland/images/chaos.gif">
<img src="http://www.whitehouse.org/homeland/images/panic.gif">
<img src="http://www.whitehouse.org/homeland/images/paranoia_anim.gif">
<img src="http://www.whitehouse.org/homeland/images/apathy.gif">
<img src="http://www.whitehouse.org/homeland/images/stupor.gif"></center>

Can the Patriot Act be removed with another president or vote or something?

hehehe...

I am clicking on your link....

Does anyone believe these modifications will actually sacrifice liberties of everyday upstanding, law abiding citizens?

Rare injustices in the system have ALWAYS existed. It's not often that you hear about your normal, middle class, by all association "innocent" neighbor being hauled off to jail and awaiting an indefinite court date... if they didn't do something suspicious or that breaks the law.

You know what they say about not doing the crime, if you can't pay the time.

Were you dropped on your head when you were a child?

I'm not sure how to answer such an intelligent question :helpme

Let me point out your stupidity then.

Imagine someone getting busted for speeding.
Now imagine that person getting sentenced for armed robbery for the speeding thing because of some weird little loophole in the law.
Now, imagine some dumb fuck saying "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time" about the whole thing.

That dumb fuck is you.

Now, if you were dropped on your head as a child, at least you'd have an excuse.

For a justice system to have any justice in it at all, it must treat everyone the same. The assumption has to be that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. This law allows the assumption of certain kinds of guilt to change the process, such that a fair defense is not possible. This affects all of us, because it could affect any one of us.

I forget - what was the difference between the FBI and KGB?

Well if anyone of you want to know if any of this shit is true, let me tell you first hand that it is..

In 1999 my wife was accused of a felony, and due to the fact that our attorneys caught the officers in the case lying, and refusing to take evidence that would hurt the states case,and the assistant state attorney did nothing about it, we decided not to risk what they may have written in the reports. They offered that if she woulf help them in a case, they would offer her probation instead of 5 years. So she took the probation. 340 days.

Now my wife is from Cuba and holds a green card. She has been here for over 10 years.. Well she served her time for what she was accused of.

On the 28th of August 2003, INS came to our house at 6am and took her into custody. She has been sitting in jail since then waiting to see a judge. They took her from here (m Gainesville ) to a county jail 200 miles north of here and told her that she would then be sent to Orlando. They told her that she would only be there 4 days. 14 days later they transported her to Orlande, where she spent one night, and then they moved her to Miami. She has been there for 3 days now, and we think that she may see a judge, by the 30th. We have been told by out attorney that most likely she will do another 90days, because she plead guilty. And then there is a CHANCE that she will be let go. But there have been and still are some cubans that are being held, with no chance to be released until cuba is free. Those people that are being held have already served their sentence. .


This is a sad day in america. Now it looks like the only way that I can get her out is to find another country that will allow the US to deport her there. Which means that I an american citizen by birth am being forced out of the US!

Let me point out your ignorance.

Things like this have already happened, before the Patriot Act. How many people were sentenced to death for murders they didn't commit? What about 50 or 60 years ago, a black man in the south being sentenced to life, for what most would consider to be, petite larceny?

I have heard a lot of cases, where judges and juries have given harsh sentences for minor crimes. I remember one story on Court TV and Dateline once, about a jury that aquitted a young boy and girl for murdering their abusive grandfather, but convicted the boy of a younger charged of armed robbery for taking the few hundred dollars the grandfather had on him, when he was killed. So the judge turned around and gave the guy life in prison for the robbery. Is that fair? You decide. This happened long before 9/11 and the Patriot Act.

Like I said, rare injustices in the system have always existed. I guess you weren't aware of them before or just want something to bitch about now...?

But I am just a dumb fuck... what do I know? :winkwink:

"Does anyone believe these modifications will actually sacrifice liberties of everyday upstanding, law abiding citizens?"

Yes.

Talking shit about the leadership can now lead to your arrest and the seizure of your assets. We used to have the right to speak out but the muzzle is comming on.

Organise a protest and you will be labled something so an invistigation can be made on you. That sound like freedom?

Ehm... what the fuck does that lengthy post have to do with you saying <b>"You know what they say about not doing the crime, if you can't pay the time."</b> about this?

You are attacking something I didn't say a word about... you're a dumb fuck indeed :1orglaugh

The FBI still exists.

The fact that bad things have happened before does not make them okay when they happen now. That's a horrible principle.

Also, I think this goes a lot further than the stuff you are talking about. This is more insidious. Laws are being passed that take away freedoms. The whole system is being changed, and it's getting worse. What makes it worse is that it is all being done in the name of a patriotic war against terror.

Ummm... my post had nothing to do with <b>"You know what they say about not doing the crime, if you can't pay the time."</b> .... It had to do with YOU giving an example of an unfair sentence for speeding. I replied with other examples of how this has already been happening for decades.

I never said it was right that these things happen then or now.

You are the dumb fuck that doesn't even remember what you said in your own post.

I guess in your mind the boats not sinking until YOUR feet are wet.

What I find frightening is the possible scale of this. This being used routinely in regular lawsuits and such could be a great threat to freedom. If it holds up in court, it could mean the end of quite a few constitutional rights.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

You literally said <b>"You know what they say about not doing the crime, if you can't pay the time."</b>. Really, just scroll up.

In your original post, you said you thought this wouldn't be dangerous for "everyday upstanding, law abiding citizens". After that, you made the "You know what they say about not doing the crime, if you can't pay the time." remark.

My example shows how ridiculous the "You know what they say about not doing the crime, if you can't pay the time." remark is in this case. The fact that that has been happening for decades has nothing whatsoever to do with that. And, the remark would've been ridiculous in any of those examples you gave as well.

So, what was your point exactly with the "You know what they say about not doing the crime, if you can't pay the time" thing?

Yes I know I said that, but my previous post didn't pertain to my comment about that. My previous post was just an example of how inappropriate sentences have already been happening.

My point with <b> "You know what they say about not doing the crime, if you can't pay the time"</b> is simply don't deliberately put yourself in a position, that the consequences could ultimately be more than you are willing to face.

The new laws, are for extreme cases. Your speeding with armed robbery sentence for a loophole, could have already happened long before these new laws againgst terrorism came about. Ever hear of racial profiling? I just don't see extreme things like you said, happening on a regular basis, to ordinary people, that aren't affiliate with any type of major crime. This country is too civilized and advanced for that to float. Like I said, it ALREADY DOES happen though and that's what the system is for. There's countless people already in prison, appealing their convictions. This is nothing new, to me at least. I've read and seen so many cases of unfair treatment and abuse of loopholes, I completely understand what you are saying, but I am also saying, as a whole, this will not be much different than rare instances that already occur.

When I actually feel my freedoms have been taken away, then I will say "Ok I was wrong"... but as of now, it doesn't effect me and I don't plan on organizing any protests anytime soon, so I am STILL grateful for all the freedoms I utilize everyday.

People are quick to point out the rare instances of injustice when it comes to a harsh sentence, but how many people commit felonies and get away with a slap on the wrist? Murderers and rapists serving less time than people writing bad checks etc. There are unfair loopholes that go both ways.

If I fucked you up the ass with my big hard dick, would you still say that there is nothing up your poop shoot???? just by denial of getting butt fucked?

huh? :1orglaugh

Do you even live in the US?

All we need now is Colin pointing to a few statistics (usually Government statistics ;-) that reveal that everything is actually 'a okay and always will be'.

:1orglaugh

Very well said.

Yes, 5 months out of 12. US corp, US taxes ( probably more in a year than you in a lifetime), US bank accounts and I love the americans. I do despise their actual administration.

But you seem to need help onn the question: Do you fucking feel it??? Yes or no ?

Analogy: you are getting ass fucked by your gov and you are in constant denial in ALL threads... Or maybe you like getting butt fucked.....

Yes, it has happened in the past, and probably will continue to happen in the future. That doesn't mean much though... murders, racism, child molestation, rape - all have happened and will probably continue to happen in the future. That doesn't mean people shouldn't care about it or shouldn't fight it.

"Don't do the crime if you can't do the time" becomes a very odd expression if you also use it for random, unjust sentences. Makes it sound like you support random, unjust sentences.

As for the "It doesn't affect me, so I won't protest" thing:

i just got my telescreen today. came ups priority. ashahahahaha says it's gotta be installed in the wall next week. and i got a letter from the ministry of love too..... this doesn't look good.

Another "it's never affected me personally so it must be ok" loser. Fucking clueless.

i think republicans believe in ideology enforcement

kinda reminds of things from history

Uh...hello. Are you truly that ignorant? And people wonder why the rest of the world think Americans are stupid.

Read and try thinking:

"When they came for the Catholics I said nothing because I was not a Catholic.

When they came for the Jews I said nothing because I was not a Jew.

When they came for the union members I said nothing because I was not a union member.

When they came for me no one said anything because they all had already been taken."

Lutheran minister Neumeuller

The Patriot Act was brought into effect to help fight the enemy within...terrorists...inside the USA...and outside the USA.

Some of you do not like the Patriot Act. Specifically what measures would you employ to help fight the enemy within and outside the USA...none?

I understand that being pro-Bush and Republican isn't trendy to a lot of you ignorant and paranoid assholes, but I am not trying to win your votes. Flame away :1orglaugh

shut up faggot.

we ain't got no space for white trash here. :1orglaugh