Originally Posted by MetaMan (Post 17691886)

OHHHH ok so it is ok to do things you dont believe in because you are ordered to them? now i get it.

So you must think that the nazis who took orders to put millions of people into ovens were just "taking orders". ya those nazis were sure the ones making the sacrifice.

dont ever mistake tossing a flag or a different uniform on makes it 2 different things. :2 cents:

Originally Posted by - LOL - (Post 17691130)

You may have served heroically, but really you died protecting the economic interests of the rich.

Originally Posted by sarettah (Post 17691923)

When you join the military (doesn't matter what country) you are saying that you are willing to do what the country (represented by the government of that country, which in my case is "we, the people") says must be done and place it as a higher priority then your own wants and beliefes.

So, yes, when you are serving "the many" it is not only ok but expected that you will do things that you do not personally believe are the right thing to do, because you are ordered to.

Originally Posted by MetaMan (Post 17691934)

answer my question. was the nazi solider putting bodies in the oven making a sacrifice or not?

then i already have a post written to respond to this one. but until then i wont respond because you choose to ignore my point.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 17691901)

facts are facts. the dude wants to rip on the u.s.a. and call our troops pussies and murderers and point his finger. turn about is fair play.

he needs a mirror and several history lessons.

Originally Posted by _Richard_ (Post 17691946)

i heard bush admitted ok'ing torture in his new memoir

maybe some of our soldiers would rather go to prison as murderers than live lives as torturers.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 17691956)

i am not sure what your point is.

Originally Posted by _Richard_ (Post 17691960)

my point is you should have gone after cdn colonel sir.stranglesalot, rather than a solider who made a hard decision

Originally Posted by sarettah (Post 17691945)

I did not ignore your point. Read what I wrote. I stated "any country".

That you have appear to have limited reading comprehension is not my problem.

Originally Posted by _Richard_ (Post 17691946)

i heard bush admitted ok'ing torture in his new memoir

maybe some of our soldiers would rather go to prison as murderers than live lives as torturers.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 17691972)

soldiers make hard decisions in the fog of war. some right some wrong, that has nothing to do with what i am doing here.

you might of had a point if you addressed the original post that i was replying to instead of pointing your finger at me.

Originally Posted by theking (Post 17691992)

No...you did not hear President Bush admit to "ok'ing torture". What you heard was him stating that after legal consultation he agreed to allow certain enhanced interrogation methods...namely "water boarding".

Originally Posted by _Richard_ (Post 17691994)

i apologize if you feel i'm pointing a finger at you. I stated that since it was your president who ok'd torture, allowing this soldier to come to a decision to kill a prisoner rather than turn him over to god knows what, i thought it was a lowblow calling our soldier the murderer.

Originally Posted by theking (Post 17691992)

No...you did not hear President Bush admit to "ok'ing torture". What you heard was him stating that after legal consultation he agreed to allow certain enhanced interrogation methods...namely "water boarding".

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 17692015)

i was simply proving a point to your fellow countryman who feels the need to denigrate u.s. soldiers by calling them pussies and murderers for their participation in wwII

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 17692015)

i was simply proving a point to your fellow countryman who feels the need to denigrate u.s. soldiers by calling them pussies and murderers for their participation in wwII

Originally Posted by moeloubani (Post 17692027)

I was saying dropping the atomic bomb was a pussy move, the soldiers that killed people were murderers and that hold true for both sides. But let's just say that the ones who waited the longest to get into the war and then when they actually faced something tough just went and killed 100,000 innocent people like fucking barbaric vikings are the REAL pussies. Isn't killing 100,000 innocent people in a way where they couldn't possibly defend themselves while they did nothing wrong a pussy move?

Originally Posted by _Richard_ (Post 17691999)

that's right, because they had batteries laying around abu ghraib for the space heaters they provided the prisoners.

and speaking of your 'ok'd waterboarding'.. didn't you guys execute a bunch of japanese pows for 'waterboarding'?

yes.. yes... http://epicanthus.net/2010/02/22/jap...american-pows/

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 17692057)

that's where your history fails you. it was hardly a pussy move to drop those bombs. what you don't realize is the bombing of japan was killing far more civilians than the bombs did.

revisionary history tells you nukes are bad and in 2010, they are. in fact, they are an anomoly of civilization. But at that time, it was a much different story. civilians were THE target of all sides at that time. the fire bombing of london, the fire bombing of dresdon are 2 classic examples. civilians were fair targets. no such thing as smart/precision bombs at that time.

Originally Posted by theking (Post 17692089)

It was estimated that an invasion of Japan would have cost us alone 1,000,000 million casualties.

Originally Posted by MetaMan (Post 17692105)

Im not getting involved but for my own personal info.

Who estimated this?

or do you just post any number that sounds large?

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 17692120)

some argue those bombs saved closer to 30,000,000 lives.

Originally Posted by theking (Post 17692127)

The planners of Operation Downfall.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall

Originally Posted by MetaMan (Post 17692140)

dont post me wikipedia links.

give me a direct quote.

Originally Posted by - LOL - (Post 17691325)

I want to thank you for sitting your dumbass in the bowels of a supercarrier during Gulf War I. I want to honor your sacrifice. Thank you so fucking much.


Congrats on being a cog in the death machine, asshole.

Originally Posted by theking (Post 17692159)

I will post what I choose to post...thank you very much...sport. The educated guess on casualties was made by the planners of Operation Downfall...feel free to research who all of the planners were and then feel free to search for quotes from any of them.

Originally Posted by MetaMan (Post 17691555)

A) point out where i said they should not be honored and do not deserve a day?

you need to be able to separate issues and really understand that human greed and interests are the backing of every decision ever made.

they indeed were fighting for money and greed and nothing else. that is why it is so sad.

i will honor those whos fought bravery but i will not honor the reasons. if people want to throw around "my grandpa did this or that" both my grandpas were in the WW2. and i personally am against war and the reasons. and so were they.

Americans are built up on this thing called "freedom". but your freedom is purely facade.

The country with power always teaches its citizens that the leadership is the best and most suited. that is pure politics.

so please tell me if they didnt fight for money and greed then what did they fight for?

america fights wars that benefit them. The american army is purely a proxy army and is 100% for hire by the highest bidders.

"The difference between fighting for your country and fighting for your countries best interests is merely semantics"

If you are lied to about what your countries best interest are then no you are not really fighting for the best interest.

Originally Posted by MetaMan (Post 17692105)

Im not getting involved but for my own personal info.

Who estimated this?

or do you just post any number that sounds large?

Originally Posted by MetaMan (Post 17692212)

why would i research planners' names in which you obviously have no idea what the names are in the first place?

is that how you normally win an argument.

"GO LOOK IT UP IN WIKIPEDIA! I WIN"

brilliant!

how about the guys that said there were WMDs in Iraq. Do you still believe them?

brilliant old chap simply brilliant!

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 17692185)

i want to say this again, i will rephrase-

america did not invent war.

the decision to use war as a way to achieve an objective was made thousands of years ago. wars then,and since, just like now, were fought for a myriad of reasons, not the least of which was/is economic gain.

this thread is stupid and moot for that simple reason.

Originally Posted by theking (Post 17691992)

No...you did not hear President Bush admit to "ok'ing torture". What you heard was him stating that after legal consultation he agreed to allow certain enhanced interrogation methods...namely "water boarding".

Originally Posted by PR_Glen (Post 17692231)

Is it the government and politicians that fight these wars? Of course not, so ask any soldier why they fight and I promise you you wont find one that says it is for the greed of their government, they fight because they believe in what they are doing. Even if they change their minds in the aftermath if they truly believed they were killing to make their government rich they would have abandoned their post in a heart beat...

Nobody is condoning war here, I don't like it either, but stating that soldiers are only fighting for money and greed IS in fact an act of dishonouring them, whether you think it does or not, especially on a day like today.

Originally Posted by MetaMan (Post 17692212)

why would i research planners' names in which you obviously have no idea what the names are in the first place?

is that how you normally win an argument.

"GO LOOK IT UP IN WIKIPEDIA! I WIN"

brilliant!

how about the guys that said there were WMDs in Iraq. Do you still believe them?

brilliant old chap simply brilliant!

Originally Posted by PR_Glen (Post 17692231)

Is it the government and politicians that fight these wars? Of course not, so ask any soldier why they fight and I promise you you wont find one that says it is for the greed of their government, they fight because they believe in what they are doing. Even if they change their minds in the aftermath if they truly believed they were killing to make their government rich they would have abandoned their post in a heart beat...

Nobody is condoning war here, I don't like it either, but stating that soldiers are only fighting for money and greed IS in fact an act of dishonouring them, whether you think it does or not, especially on a day like today.

Originally Posted by Bryan G (Post 17692255)

A couple years ago I was sitting in the bar at Schiphol airport in Amsterdam and an American soldier walked in and sat next to me. We started talking about a ton of different things, one being the war in Iraq. He was on leave from Iraq to go see his sick son at home. He hated the fact he was in Iraq, he did not believe they were there for the right reason. He was suppose to only do 1 tour, he was currently on his 4th I believe he said. He said they were fighting a war that can never be one and the only reason they were there was for greed. He had some incredible stories let me tell you.

Originally Posted by scuba steve (Post 17692130)

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/9002/35175177.jpg

read the patch

came across this today.