How do you innovate or adapt when the product you sell is FREE ???

[RogerV]

JUst curious if anyone has figured out a way to stop the porn ship from sinking?

Everyone always says innovate or adapt but I havnt seen anything new

[WiredGuy]

You pay the surfer to take it for free!
WG

[epitome]

WG, your title of "Pounding Googlebot" conjures up an image in my head that is probably different than you intended.

[Nathan]

You give the surfer a better product than she or he can get for free...

Not really hard to be honest...

[RogerV]

You pay the surfer to take it for free!
WG

LMAO

I'll pay them but not to take it for free. they have to pay it forward

[RogerV]

You give the surfer a better product than she or he can get for free...

Not really hard to be honest...

Check out shaps post.

http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=994812

THe next generation will not pay believe it. the free stuff is way better then the National geographic shit I had to spank too

if they can blow a load for free they will not pay I dont care how good it is.

[RogerV]

I guess fabian is the only one who has ideas

If I had a Few Million+ Views a day Like Fabian I'm sure some will pay just not sure of retention. what is your conversion from free to pay? 1/5,000 if its better then that then I will be shocked

my new site is growing slow but strong and retains amazing but we pay our members dont have anything close to that traffic but we convert under 1/100 easy
and just got all my mainstream keywords approved so traffic is rockin. wish i had the porn traffic like you guys i'd be killing it

[Brujah]

There are a few really good topics here about monetizing "FREE" and usually from an article in Wired.

The article was published in Feb 2008.
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/magazine/16-03/ff_free

[Davy]

You go deeper and deeper into the long tail because you have no other choice.

[KillerK]

I'd try paying the surfers to join your porn site, since they can get it free elsewhere. That would get you a shitton of members if you paid them $10 a month to belong.

[Nathan]

Roger, I can not tell you what the conversion from ad views to paid joins are for our own ads on tubes, but once clicked it's around 1:1000.

Our CPA for tube traffic is around the same if not cheaper than for affiliate joins.

[RogerV]

Roger, I can not tell you what the conversion from ad views to paid joins are for our own ads on tubes, but once clicked it's around 1:1000.

Our CPA for tube traffic is around the same if not cheaper than for affiliate joins.

Damn thats amazing

but how many viewers click an ad? 1/10,000

I know you have the traffic so its a numbers game it doesnt matter right now. but I really think in 5 years it will.

then again you might be the last one standing and then you can censor it all and make them pay lol. either way your in a great position.

once I get to a certain point which should be soon I'm going to hit you up again. and buy some traffic if its for sale? I think I can convert it better then 1/1000

[Brujah]

From the article:

"The huge psychological gap between "almost zero" and "zero" is why micropayments failed. It's why Google doesn't show up on your credit card. It's why modern Web companies don't charge their users anything. And it's why Yahoo gives away disk drive space. The question of infinite storage was not if but when. The winners made their stuff free first."

[will76]

JUst curious if anyone has figured out a way to stop the porn ship from sinking?

Everyone always says innovate or adapt but I havnt seen anything new

since you started a new thread about this i will plant this here too:


The answers are right in front of their faces. No big innovation is needed. It's simple, sites need to become more interactive, there has to be stuff that is live, and there has to be interaction between the members and the content. Members should also have more control over the site. I have tons of great ideas on how to accomplish this, but apparently no one wants to listen.

It's just new to them and for whatever reason some of these old timers don't want to change. I don't understand why. Is it because they are scared to, is it an ego thing and they think they can beat it, do they just not care anymore and they are going to cut costs and ride the ship down living off of the rebills for as long as they can, or are they so big that they think they can't change, or they think they shouldn't have to change, or do they have their heads in the sand and they think nothing is wrong. I totally don't understand it.

it's like trying to talk to your best friend who's gf just cheated on him and he is still hung up on her. You have a non biased opinion looking at it from the outside but he is all tied up into it and can't see clearly what is going on. It's like most of these people are in a fog and you can see crystal clear, but they don't want to hear what you have to say.

[DamianJ]

JUst curious if anyone has figured out a way to stop the porn ship from sinking?

Everyone always says innovate or adapt but I havnt seen anything new

www.iwantitlikethis.com has recently launched. It is - as far as I know - unique and new. Takes interactive porn DVD idea and puts it online.

So you can instantly skip to the part you want to see, and can put together custom playlists with (for example) no anal if you don't like anal. Or all cumshots. etc etc.

Not saying for one second it will fix all the problems in the world, but it's at least something that is new.

[RogerV]

since you started a new thread about this i will plant this here too:


The answers are right in front of their faces. No big innovation is needed. It's simple, sites need to become more interactive, there has to be stuff that is live, and there has to be interaction between the members and the content. Members should also have more control over the site. I have tons of great ideas on how to accomplish this, but apparently no one wants to listen.

It's just new to them and for whatever reason some of these old timers don't want to change. I don't understand why. Is it because they are scared to, is it an ego thing and they think they can beat it, do they just not care anymore and they are going to cut costs and ride the ship down living off of the rebills for as long as they can, or are they so big that they think they can't change, or they think they shouldn't have to change, or do they have their heads in the sand and they think nothing is wrong. I totally don't understand it.

it's like trying to talk to your best friend who's gf just cheated on him and he is still hung up on her. You have a non biased opinion looking at it from the outside but he is all tied up into it and can't see clearly what is going on. It's like most of these people are in a fog and you can see crystal clear, but they don't want to hear what you have to say.

I'm going to bed now. hope GFY has innovative threads tomorrow. cause I'm getting bored of the same shit..

Some day we need to talk and pick eachothers brains.

[papill0n]

work it out yourself

[tonegawa]

since you started a new thread about this i will plant this here too:

I have tons of great ideas on how to accomplish this, but apparently no one wants to listen.

for example?

[Nathan]

Damn thats amazing

but how many viewers click an ad? 1/10,000

I know you have the traffic so its a numbers game it doesnt matter right now. but I really think in 5 years it will.

then again you might be the last one standing and then you can censor it all and make them pay lol. either way your in a great position.

once I get to a certain point which should be soon I'm going to hit you up again. and buy some traffic if its for sale? I think I can convert it better then 1/1000

trafficjunky.com

Go and bid...

[AdultKing]

I have a great idea, it's bleeding obvious and has been done in mainstream. I just wish I had the cash flow to implement it.

The idea is simple, an iTunes for porn. If it was successful it's the nightmare scenario for all traditional webmasters, a simple app which makes mountains of porn available with integrated billing and one click ease of access. It also removes the issues of filtering etc in countries that might try to impose porn filters (read Australia).

I have ideas on the strategy for implementation and various modifications to the iTunes paradigm which would make it work for porn, but I'm not going to share those more detailed ideas here, you'll need to hire me to get those.

[DamianJ]

I have a great idea, it's bleeding obvious and has been done in mainstream. I just wish I had the cash flow to implement it.

The idea is simple, an iTunes for porn. If it was successful it's the nightmare scenario for all traditional webmasters, a simple app which makes mountains of porn available with integrated billing and one click ease of access. It also removes the issues of filtering etc in countries that might try to impose porn filters (read Australia).

I have ideas on the strategy for implementation and various modifications to the iTunes paradigm which would make it work for porn, but I'm not going to share those more detailed ideas here, you'll need to hire me to get those.

Everyone has been talking about that for years. It's obvious.

What it needs to happen is not with someone doing clever implementation, imho. Anyone can do that. What needs to happen is someone as charismatic and bullish as Jobs to get 5/10/20 of the largest studios/producers to all agree to give iPorn.com (or whatever) the content. And to persuade them to stop charging 30 bucks a month to xxxx people and start charging $2.99 per download to xxxxxxx people.

Oh, and the real thing that kicked off the iTMS was the iPod. It was the integration between software and hardware. Tablets are perfect for viewing porn. Can be secret on your own, can be in bed with your partner. And is not your PC.

Walmart are selling $100 tablets. (ok, they are shit compared to ipads, but still)

So maybe the real answer is some VERY cheap or subsidised tablet PLUS an iTMS for porn with lots of very cheap and easy to download porn.

[AdultKing]

Everyone has been talking about that for years. It's obvious.

Absolutely obvious, however the way to make it work is less obvious and those ideas I am not sharing for free.

[CIVMatt]

JUst curious if anyone has figured out a way to stop the porn ship from sinking?

Everyone always says innovate or adapt but I havnt seen anything new

Solo girl models are now releasing their content on torrents and back building fanbases that way - it's actually working quite well.

[gaffg]

how about free no deposit bonuses with online casinos

[DamianJ]

Absolutely obvious, however the way to make it work is less obvious and those ideas I am not sharing for free.

Good luck with selling your awesome ideas!

Do you accept epass?

[stocktrader23]

Everyone has been talking about that for years. It's obvious.

What it needs to happen is not with someone doing clever implementation, imho. Anyone can do that. What needs to happen is someone as charismatic and bullish as Jobs to get 5/10/20 of the largest studios/producers to all agree to give iPorn.com (or whatever) the content. And to persuade them to stop charging 30 bucks a month to xxxx people and start charging $2.99 per download to xxxxxxx people.

Oh, and the real thing that kicked off the iTMS was the iPod. It was the integration between software and hardware. Tablets are perfect for viewing porn. Can be secret on your own, can be in bed with your partner. And is not your PC.

Walmart are selling $100 tablets. (ok, they are shit compared to ipads, but still)

So maybe the real answer is some VERY cheap or subsidised tablet PLUS an iTMS for porn with lots of very cheap and easy to download porn.

You are always looking to talk shit to someone and this kind of shit is as dumb as it gets.

a) Putting your shit on iPorn or whatever does not mean you have to quit selling it elsewhere. Record companies still sell CD's and television folks still sell their fucking seasons on DVD.

b) Tablets can be used by anyone. Software can be created by anyone. There is no need to make your fucking own when there is already a market base of millions.

c) Selling porn in this way does not rely on tablets in the first place. Most people use it for useful things, not fucking porn.

d) Stop being a fucking dick.

[stocktrader23]

I'm going to bed now. hope GFY has innovative threads tomorrow. cause I'm getting bored of the same shit..

Some day we need to talk and pick eachothers brains.

The problem with talking on GFY is that the first to market is often the winner. As long as there are people here with more resources than me I'll just sit on it.

[DamianJ]

You are always looking to talk shit to someone and this kind of shit is as dumb as it gets.

Well I am sure you can post a really intelligent reponse, detailing my points, explain why they are "dumb" and "shit" and then come up with a counterpoint. Let's see...

a) Putting your shit on iPorn or whatever does not mean you have to quit selling it elsewhere. Record companies still sell CD's and television folks still sell their fucking seasons on DVD.

Where do I suggest differently? Please quote examples.

b) Tablets can be used by anyone. Software can be created by anyone. There is no need to make your fucking own when there is already a market base of millions.

Where do I suggest tablets cannot be used by anyone?

The market place is very small at the moment, like then mp3 players came out.

c) Selling porn in this way does not rely on tablets in the first place. Most people use it for useful things, not fucking porn.

Please show where I suggest selling porn in anyway relies on a tablet

d) Stop being a fucking dick.

Brilliant closing argument. Name calling really helps you cement your point which was...

Um...

I really can't see any point here apart from you calling me a dick.

Well done!

Another really well thought out, intelligent contribution from you.

I can now see why you get the big bucks.

[PR_Glen]

Check out shaps post.

http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=994812

THe next generation will not pay believe it. the free stuff is way better then the National geographic shit I had to spank too

if they can blow a load for free they will not pay I dont care how good it is.

water is free.. or practically free anyway. bottled water is a gigantic industry.. why? Marketing and salesmanship...

We all know the water they are selling isn't any better for you than that stuff coming out of your tap...

[stocktrader23]

Sir, you were being a dick. Your followup is even more retarded than the original dickish behavior.

"And to persuade them to stop charging 30 bucks a month to xxxx people and start charging $2.99 per download to xxxxxxx people."

They don't have to stop any fucking thing.

"So maybe the real answer is some VERY cheap or subsidised tablet PLUS an iTMS for porn with lots of very cheap and easy to download porn."

This is irrelevant since you can easily get your content on both of them. Whether or not they take off means fuck all as long as people are still browsing on their PC.


I'm sorry if I'm not wasting time with long, drawn out arguments. I'm not on GFY to partake in proper debates. When I speak, it is for those that will understand what I'm talking about. You obviously don't.

Oh, and I called you a dick because you are. I see you making smart ass comments in way too many threads here. Nice contributions yourself!

[stocktrader23]

water is free.. or practically free anyway. bottled water is a gigantic industry.. why? Marketing and salesmanship...

We all know the water they are selling isn't any better for you than that stuff coming out of your tap...

I'm glad you brought this up because while it may appear to support your argument on the surface it actually does the opposite.

$0.59 to $1.99 is an impulse buy price. Nobody gives a shit about a buck.

Water in bottles is convenient. It takes something you already use and gives it to you in a better way. The only other shit in bottles is fizzy drinks and other stuff that is bad for you.

[Wizzo]

how about free no deposit bonuses with online casinos

As much as I like to gamble, not really into beating off to it...

[seeandsee]

build legal tubes, and show to illegal tubes you are the boss

[willwank]

There are a few really good topics here about monetizing "FREE" and usually from an article in Wired.

The article was published in Feb 2008.
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/magazine/16-03/ff_free

This is a great article and every time I "loose my way" I read it over and over again. The problem arises when you add "theft" to the concept of freenomics. I quote unquote "theft" simply because I blame rights owners just as much as the "thieves" Rights holders need to provide legal access to not all but large parts of their libraries. Why? Because the market is already pricing it as close to zero as it can get. Today it can only serve as a tool to extract value in other areas in the chain. Question is, who's gonna extract that value? The producers and owners themselves? Sure, many will try to go down that path but they will fail. Isolating yourself on the net will not work, you need partners in the value chain. If, or rather when, you put your content into the public domain expect it to be picked up and used by whoever. If that whoever John Doe controls valuable resources in terms of fresh organic traffic you are loosing out not partnering with him on some level. What about those who control no organic resources? Well, the admission fee is getting higher by the day. Your friend is a relative democracy, just don't expect it to be easy.

[DamianJ]

I'm sorry... I called you a dick

That's OK.

You coming to vegas? Wanna make out?

[BlackCrayon]

Roger, I can not tell you what the conversion from ad views to paid joins are for our own ads on tubes, but once clicked it's around 1:1000.

Our CPA for tube traffic is around the same if not cheaper than for affiliate joins.

1:1000 today but as time passes they will demand more and more for free as the status quo won't cut it for long. eventually the ads you put up, they will want these services for free and someone will offer it and do just what you guys are doing with the movies. then what?

[BlackCrayon]

water is free.. or practically free anyway. bottled water is a gigantic industry.. why? Marketing and salesmanship...

We all know the water they are selling isn't any better for you than that stuff coming out of your tap...

tap water is far from free. if you own a home, you pay for it in multiple ways. one, directly via your water bill. two, via property taxes for water lines, water filtration plants, etc. you also pay for the disposal of it as well.

[Fabien]

Yep like the free web cam SHIT !

[Tom_PM]

tap water is far from free. if you own a home, you pay for it in multiple ways. one, directly via your water bill. two, via property taxes for water lines, water filtration plants, etc. you also pay for the disposal of it as well.

Consider that the equivalent of the server company (water company) making money from the delivery of the porn (water). They make money if the product being delivered is free or a million bucks.

[Redrob]

Most people forget that in most situations FREE = STOLEN.

Due to production and marketing costs, you can not give your content away for free and stay in business.

Turn off the STOLEN content and the FREE will dry up or be very old and lame with no value.

Just my opinion.

[fusionx]

water is free.. or practically free anyway. bottled water is a gigantic industry.. why? Marketing and salesmanship...

We all know the water they are selling isn't any better for you than that stuff coming out of your tap...

Don't forget convenience.

When I buy a bottle of water I cringe at the price, but I don't want to run home and fill a jug with filtered tap water. The ability to grab it, drink it, and throw the bottle away is what I'm paying for.

Kind of sad, really..

[stocktrader23]

Most people forget that in most situations FREE = STOLEN.

Due to production and marketing costs, you can not give your content away for free and stay in business.

Turn off the STOLEN content and the FREE will dry up or be very old and lame with no value.

Just my opinion.

What in the fuck are you talking about? Facebook is free, so is Google, so is Yahoo, etc. This is not a new fucking business model.

[BlackCrayon]

Don't forget convenience.

When I buy a bottle of water I cringe at the price, but I don't want to run home and fill a jug with filtered tap water. The ability to grab it, drink it, and throw the bottle away is what I'm paying for.

Kind of sad, really..

you can still get it pretty cheap. i buy 35 packs at costco for like 3 bucks. thats less than 10 cents per bottle. its still cheaper coming from the tap but it tastes like chlorine, so..

[BlackCrayon]

What in the fuck are you talking about? Facebook is free, so is Google, so is Yahoo, etc. This is not a new fucking business model.

facebook and google is a service. these tube sites are giving away a product. its a bit different.

[fusionx]

I'm glad you brought this up because while it may appear to support your argument on the surface it actually does the opposite.

$0.59 to $1.99 is an impulse buy price. Nobody gives a shit about a buck.

Water in bottles is convenient. It takes something you already use and gives it to you in a better way. The only other shit in bottles is fizzy drinks and other stuff that is bad for you.

I should have read further before I replied to PR_Glen. You got it first

I also see people continuing to pay for site memberships based on quality and convenience.

I can download MP3s from all over. Then I have to make sure the MP3 is what it's supposed to be. Then I delete all the low bit rate stuff. Then I organize into albums, and search for missing songs. It's a huge waste of time.

I'd MUCH rather buy a DVD, rip it, and move on, or buy the MP3's directly online, assuming they don't have rights management. That's a huge pain in the ass.

IMHO, it's the same thing with porn. Yeah - I can search and find movies, but I'd rather not waste time. I'd much rather use a VOD site on PPM and watch what I want, when I want, then move on. Or hit a pay-site, whatever.

Your customer base shrinks drastically with this view, but your paying customer base has a much lower cost of sales. If you can target that guy, you win.

[dyna mo]

Don't forget convenience.

When I buy a bottle of water I cringe at the price, but I don't want to run home and fill a jug with filtered tap water. The ability to grab it, drink it, and throw the bottle away is what I'm paying for.

Kind of sad, really..

the saddest part is the pollution nightmare of water bottles.

[fusionx]

you can still get it pretty cheap. i buy 35 packs at costco for like 3 bucks. thats less than 10 cents per bottle. its still cheaper coming from the tap but it tastes like chlorine, so..

if I could reliably and consistently plan my purchases I'd agree

[fusionx]

the saddest part is the pollution nightmare of water bottles.

Agreed. In a few years we'll have plastics (or similar) that degrade gracefully, so that *should* become less of a problem. "Few" being relative. Maybe "several"?

[stocktrader23]

facebook and google is a service. these tube sites are giving away a product. its a bit different.

It's not different at all. Yahoo and Google have many products, they just have no cash pricetag. Call it a product or service if you want but tubes are doing the same exact thing as Google.

[Alprazolam]

offer a better product.