atkins is build on premises that with enough carb restriction, the body would burn fat for energy, instead of burning carbs for energy... is it making sense now?

carbs = glucose.. energy =/ glucose

again, i'm not here to argue. i honestly couldn't care less what you understand or don't understand about it all. your comment about fruit sugar leads me to believe you don't have a good understanding of the topic though, on top of not understanding how a keto diet or atkins diet works.

sorry to the OP for going off topic, congrats again on the fat loss and i would not change anything up with your diet, it's working.

Congrats on your weight loss that great

right.. my comment is on point.. wild fruits have a lot less sugar than our modern day fruits..

and also fat cannot be converted to glucose in the body.. those 2 statements are true..

enjoy the weight loss OP

naaaa. Just work out hard for couple hours a day and eat whatever you want.

how does the "KETO" diet affect muscle tissue? Im in pretty good shape with years of muscle building behind me. Have some fat around the belly that I just seem to have problems getting rid of. But do not want to burn muscles.

Anyone know? Also, is there a good site anyone can recommend with the KETO diet on?

Thanks in advance.

Dyno Mo, is that you in your avatar?

If so, I'll take your advice on this topic any time.

thanks man!

yup, that me, i should post my before pic, lol.

btw, if you are interested in a super healthy food, please sign up for a free package of my superfoods cereal at www.facebook.com/takechargefood or hit up your buddy j$tyles for some.

Can you point me to some articles on it?

Dude you are in Costa Rica,
bang 4 whores a night thats your cardio.

Eat only meat and drink moderate scotch/tequila.

Winstrol V and Clenbutrenol.

Weights in afternoon.

When I first discovered I had an issue with Gluten, I slid in and out of keto due to finding issues with other foods and struggling to find the right foods. In my findings, I function my absolute best (mood, energy, focus) with around 30 to 50 grams of carbs a day. I usually eat a banana or two and sometimes black beans. I also eat a lot of spinach. Sometimes I have corn chips. But mostly I have found that if you will just stay away from processed foods (namely go paleo), you will lose weight and feel 100 times better.

The gluten is what my springboard was, but now its actually secondary to issues with processed foods.

I like this article, I have found I relate my struggle and eventual resolutions to it. I lost 35lbs. But its way more about how I feel, my skin, my general mood, and my focus.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?id=5021601

And congrats on the weight loss.

You didn't lose "mostly fat" - when you deplete glucose stores because you stopped to eat carbohydrates, you become dehydrated because you retard you ability to store water (with glucose). You lost mostly water. Going forward, you will lose mostly fat.

And fat is not converted to glucose.

thank you for confirming that statement.. ive been preaching it and dynamo keeps doubting me.. this is nutrition 101.. u cant convert fat to glucose..

exactly what i said one page back.. i eat raw paleo and do best on around 30-50g of carbs a day.. do u eat raw paleo?

i eat raw meat/back fat/marrow..

how about u?

Atkins Research Center has discovered that aspartame inhibits your body from converting stored fat into glucose.

75,000 results
http://www.google.com/search?q=Atkin...ient=firefox-a

The body can convert 10% of dietary fat into glucose
About 194,000 results
http://www.google.com/search?q=The+b...9c82155c57878e

Fat to Glycerol to Glucose
500,000 results

http://www.google.com/search?q=+Fat+...ient=firefox-a

Well, mine is sort of a mess, but since we are talking about it, I will break it down : )

I started learning that many processed foods really beat me up, so it was never really a weight loss thing. It was bloating, rashes, irritability, lack of focus. Those were the main issues I sought to remedy.

So I did an elimination diet. I did meat, veg, fruit. Nothing more, nothing less. Knowing Gluten was already the mother of all my issues, meaning, when I eat it, everything goes to hell, I learned that the following effected me: Soy (pretty much knew that already), Dairy (knew that), Fructose (this was the wildcard), anything that's super processed with high reined sugars....

So while I do paleo, I have to watch the fructose. Bananas, Grapefruit, oranges, certain veg, are fine. But at the end of the day, I found myself slightly below my carb bar. So I tried out black beans. I don't think black beans are on the paleo list? I also will eat the corn chips (the 3 ingredient ones).

I do not eat any sauces, I eat plane chicken breast. I eat salmon. I eat boiled eggs. Bananas. Spinach. Black beans. And an array of modest veggies.

So yeah, that's pretty much where I stand. I'd say its paleo, but maybe not by exact specification. Everyone speaks of carbs, but I always try to tell people that things like gluten will keep weight on way more than carbs. Refined sugars, as well. I believe its way more about what you are putting in your body, more than its about how much.

The times I went keto was due to lacking a food I could eat because I was forced to eliminate it. I felt better once I was able to put the bananas back in. I felt even better when I was able to add in some black beans.

And when you say "raw," are you speaking to the cooking process?

I lightly cook all veg. I have wanted to try it without, but have not went that road yet.

Anabolism and catabolism of glucose


Glucose metabolism involves both energy-producing (catabolic, shown in orange) and energy-consuming (anabolic, shown in green) processes.

a picture-

http://oi54.tinypic.com/209n9lx.jpg

yeah.. i actually eat raw muscle meats/ fats/ eggs.. i dont cook anything at all.. feel so much better with raw meat then cooked meat..

just make sure if u r gonna go this route u buy 100% grassfed beef and pasture raised eggs.. and google raw paleo and read up before attempting..

and dynamo ok u win.. :1orglaugh im not gonna waste hours arguing.. our body converts all the fat/alcohol/sperm/ to glucose.. happy?

anyway raw paleo is the shit

I have heard this before, I undercook pork if I buy it at Whole Foods.

What is the idea behind this? You just get more vitamins? As opposed to heating the meat up? And isn't it tough to chew?

I'd like to find anyone who went to grade school, who knows this piece of information, nevermind the fact that it's false.

there is a lot of bad/mis information out there, from fruit being bad for you to where glucose comes from. being diabetic for 26 years, i've spents a lot of time trying to understand glucose through my meetings with nutritionists, doctors, nurse practitioners and reading. so i'm up for learning everything i can, this isn't an argument from my point of view, i'd hoped it to be a discussion where peeps, including me can learn.


i have no issues with being wrong/updating my knowledge. but i've yet to have any info presented to me that shows the info i've provided, that the body can and does convert fat to glucose, is incorrect.

For sure you're right Dynamo. I've heard the "broscience" behind xxweekxx's posts numerous times and there's no real evidence for it.

This guy eats a ton of carbs daily:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/91/25...1475ee.jpg?v=0

broscience? i said protein CAN be converted to glucose in the absence of carbs if your muscles need it and u said its bro science..

at least dynamo can confirm that one is true.. PROTEIN is converted to glucose at an efficiency of 50%~ish

broscience, that's good! lolz.

we all should be able to get along, obviously we have the same interests. we're talking about some pretty complicated science.

I love exercise/diet threads on gfy :1orglaugh

they're a bit nutty.

http://www.itsabitnutty.com/austinnutty.jpg

Really? Search engine much? ;) You just searched for "Fat" and "glycerol" and "glucose" and "to" and brought up 500,000 random result which do not match your query.

If do it correctly and put the phrase in " " - you see only 2 result.

Fat is not converted to glucose and burned as glucose for energy. Glycerol is not glucose. They are both forms of sugar but glycerol only exists for a brief part of the WHOLE process and the final result is not glucose.

This is one argument against ketogenic diets - that your brain run on glucose and fat oxidation does not create glucose which is the prefered food for your brain. This is why when you starting ketogenic diets, it takes usually 2 weeks to adjust and you get foggy and cant think well... becuase you brain adapts to new fuel type (ketones)

100% on point.. thats how i felt when i went ketogenic.. so i added a few carbs everyday and i feel much much better. thanks for chiming in man....

glucose is the ONLY food for the brain- period.


if what you are saying is correct + your mad se skills, then you should be able to provide a link refuting the science of what is graphically explained in this picture

http://oi54.tinypic.com/209n9lx.jpg

i'm going to let you slide on your comment stating ketones are energy for the brain.

(ketones are by-products of converting stored fat for energy)

I have read every book on the subject from Dan Douchaine to Lyle Mcdonald to every study i could find. There is a lot of bad information out there. Few people really understand (even nutritionists or bodybuilder) what is actually happening.

Best book on the subject is The Ketogenic Diet by Lyle McDonald for explaining the real science of it, backed by peer reviewed medical studies... not just random and wrong opinions of "bros". Even if you go to big bodybuilding forums, you get as much shitty and wrong info as you would get if you asked how to rank number 1 in google for "porn" on this forum. 1,000,000 people has opinions but only 10 people are doing it... of those 10, only 3 did it on purpose ;)

listen, all i know is that if i eat 100g of fat today, my body cant take it to make glucose to feed my brain.. simple and short.... and your brain can use ketones in addition to glucose

Question for you all. I eat alot of spinich, mostly as a salad. Chicken breast on top of baby spnich. However I buy the baby spinich that comes in those bags, is that OK or should I buy the stuff not in bags?

this?

http://www.homestyle.com.au/Images/h...pinach-bag.jpg

it's perfectly fine.

:thumbsup

Dyna mo you are the man! Been learning alot from you. I dont need to lose alot, about 10lbs but you've helped me alot. Cheers

any links backing this?

no worries, btw, even frozen spinach is loaded with nutrients.

a quick search does reveal that the brain can get energy from ketones, good to know!

The brain gets its energy from ketone bodies when glucose is less available (e.g., when fasting). In the event of low blood glucose, most other tissues have additional energy sources besides ketone bodies (such as fatty acids), but the brain does not. After the diet has been changed to lower blood glucose for 3 days, the brain gets 30% of its energy from ketone bodies.[4] After about 40 days, this goes up to 70% (during the initial stages the brain does not burn ketones, since they are an important substrate for lipid synthesis in the brain). In time the brain reduces its glucose requirements from 120g to 40g per day.[5]

yeah.. looks like u found it :thumbsup

hence why you dont die if u stop eating carbs.. if all u ate from today was 100% fat, u would still survive and ur brain wont just shut off

I am too tired to get into a long discussion and look up and verify the name of every acid and every step of every process etc. amino acids and other compounds involved just to be accurate. I am telling you that i have seen these points argued 1000 times already. I have no real interest in being 1001.

Again, you wrong about glucose. It is only a myth/misunderstanding that your brain only runs on glucose. One that is argued non-stop anytime someone attacks the idea of ketogenic diets as being harmful using the wrong logic that your brain can only run on glucose. There is only some parts of your brain that needs fuel from glucose and that is made in this case of ketogenic diets from amino acids.


So, with that, I leave you with a quote from wikipedia:

On the ketogenic diet, carbohydrates are restricted and so cannot provide for all the metabolic needs of the body. Instead, fatty acids are used as the major source of fuel. These are used through fatty-acid oxidation in the cell's mitochondria (the energy-producing part of the cell). Humans can convert some amino acids into glucose by a process called gluconeogenesis, but cannot do this for fatty acids. Since amino acids are needed to make proteins, which are essential for growth and repair of body tissues, these cannot be used only to produce glucose. This could pose a problem for the brain, since it is normally fuelled solely by glucose, and fatty acids do not cross the blood?brain barrier. Fortunately, the liver can use fatty acids to synthesise the three ketone bodies β-hydroxybutyrate, acetoacetate and acetone. These ketone bodies enter the brain and substitute for glucose

keto is not very healthy, try something like p90x

before and after pics?

I guess wiki quote said it better. Under NORMAL conditions, you brain ONLY runs on glucose. So lets agree we are both right ;)

should we hug it out?

lololololololol!!!