AFP: Porn titans come together to expose pirates

Most countries have rules on services like this, they have to store records for a period of time of each logged in ip, which could be another fake ip of course - creating some serious work for someone. Thing is, many don't have to store it long, like 48 hours. So by time the court responds, the records are gone. But American ones, UK, etc I think have to keep them much longer.

In my experience looking - most ip's aren't faked.

THAT is exactly the kind of bullshit that pisses me off about Naughty America. I've begged them since 2007 to do SOMETHING about their content getting stolen. I've had conversations with people there about how and what to do. I've told them to hire removeyourcontent

One of their guys at this years Phoenix Forum assured me that they were FINALLY setting up to start dmca'ing their shit down aggressively.

And yet here it is...all this time later and I can see no reason for anybody to ever have to buy a membership for their sites.

So far this year I am 1:5779 (uniques) in sales for them. Just 3 years ago I was still doing 1:300 with them. And the worst part is...they are shooting some of the best content they ever have shot. I LOVE their stuff. It should be selling like hotcakes. Instead it's just another program that contributes to my dwindling paysite affiliate numbers.

They hired us, for a month, then defaulted on paying.

That hasn't really been addressed yet. But my feeling is that IF millions of people started using an IP anonymizer that the ip range would be identified, the company providing the service identified, and subpoena's sent.

yeah don't know how it works really or how really secure it is.

There has been a lot of publicity of movie and music downloaders being sued.

Has it really made an impact?

The only extra leverage porn has over music or movies is traditionally being a taboo subject - is that really enough to tip the scales? The problem I can see is that what is taboo changes with time.

Wasn't that back when Mark was still in charge?

I THINK what happened is you got caught in a "regime change"

Mark called me when he made the decision to hire ya'll (remember I messaged you back then and told you I had just heard from him)

But then a month later...in news that shocked the hell out of me...Mark left Naughty America. Surprised the fuck out of me. He and Andreas (the owner) were the face of N.A. to me and all affiliates.

Anyway, I seem to remember you telling me that right after that...they reneged on the deal.

Just bad timing I think. But if there was EVER a company that needs you, it's Naughty America. I promoted them since back when they were SoCal Cash and they have always been one of the best. Until piracy pretty much gutted them.

Also.. from what I understand.. infiltrating or sniffing private VPN's/tunnels, etc requires a PI license. Case law has already established that PI licensing is not needed to track on public trackers. It's a common "defense" I read on pirate torrent boards (often) but holds no water.

I can't argue with that. Numbers don't lie.

Point taken.

OK, so there was an effort made to reach out to torrent owners/sharers.

Knowing the type of person who runs in those circles, they probably thought it was a sting op - which is why it likely failed.

I understand what is being said (i.e. content should be as protected against piracy as possible), but I still have some apprehension as to how this will play out over the long term.

The argument could be made that defending adult industry content from being pirated in a court of law does lend the industry legal credibility in terms of the rights for adult content to be distributed. Once the legal system finds itself protecting the adult industry, it thereby has to acknowledge it as normal part of the entire system.

Yeah.. that could be what happened.

That has already been addressed.

And it's the reason that surfers are paying out settlements right now by the thousands for being on pirate sites.

If you are a "normal" guy with a regular job, a wife, kids, you're active in your church, you work with a youth group (maybe coach a baseball team), etc.

The LAST thing you want is to go to court over downloading a movie featuring a guy getting ass fucked by a tranny. lol

Get in trouble for downloading the new Foo Fighters song? Okay. But get BUSTED downloading stolen porn?

That can get your life destroyed.

And that's why people are settling so quickly. And it's what is going to spread by word of mouth and will begin to deter people from going to those sites anymore.

And once enough people stop going to them...their traffic numbers fall. And when they fall low enough...their revenue from pre-paid spots falls (it's based on traffic numbers).

This is an entirely different game here than music and hollywood movies.

As I said earlier...the pirates STRENGTH is now going to become their biggest WEAKNESS. We just had to figure out how to do it. But now that we finally have a weapon...I for one intend to use it in a very, very painful way.

This is definitely true in regards to criminal law. I have several contacts, with the FBI, and they do not want the PR of helping adult in any way. We really are "on our own" as opposed to the RIAA/MPAA... who enjoy the benefits of criminal enforcement aspects.

It wasn't so much "reaching out". It was more like desperation on all of our parts. lol

People saw their businesses collapsing and figured: "Hey, why not give this a try"
I mean, we knew in our hearts and every bit of business sense we possessed that it wouldn't work. But you never know until you try.

So we all gave this "new revenue stream" a shot. And the only guy that I know of who has said he made money off of it was Shap. He claimed that he was making over a hundred trial sales a day from an ad he bought on YouPorn.

Don't know if that was true or just exaggeration. And I also don't know the percentage of those sales that converted and rebilled at full price and I don't know how many of THOSE charged back afterwards.

But every other program owner I have spoken to has told me that they had the same results as I did. Miserable.

Oh look the husband of a Pink Visual employee spewing stupidity on gfy, shocking.

Go fuck yourself.

If you use software such as BitTorrent and eDonkey (as well as related clients like Azureus and eMule, respectively), you will automatically be uploading whatever you are currently downloading. In eDonkey, these files may appear in search results and thus become visible to the MPAA and RIAA. In BitTorrent, you must connect to a BitTorrent "tracker" to download a file, and your Internet address is visible to anyone else -- including the MPAA or RIAA -- connected to that tracker. In these instances, you may be at greater risk.

Read more here.

BitTorrent and eDonkey do not work with hidden IP´s. The user is forced to show his actual and real IP, otherwise no data exchange is possible. There are a number of tools that try to 'hide' from copyright organisations by using a blacklist of IP addresses that the software will not be allowed to ask data from. Note that this is not a foolproof solution, because it is only as good as the blacklist is (and as soon as they register a new IP address, it's not perfect any more).

http://superuser.com/questions/12641...n-file-sharing

Oh but you're the one pretending you have any type of clue.... just spouting of random bullshit like you took the time to educate yourself on the subject.





Would you like me to open your mouth a bit wider for your foot?

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My phone rang and I sort of lost my train of thought half-way through so may be a bit like rambling nonsense
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That relies on a large percentage of the downloaders being your specific "normal" guy.

Active in church? Church attendance has been dropping for years.

Youth leader? Already looked at suspiciously by a lot of people anyway for having a desire to work with kids.

Then needing them to have downloaded something extreme.

What is taboo constantly changes.

20 years ago my cousin got divorced and my grandparents never spoke to her again. To my parents generation divorce is just a bit unfortunate. To my generation it doesn't matter at all.

15 years ago me having a load of points on my driving licence was a job restricting rarity. Now there are more people with points for speeding than without. Nobody gives a shit.

10 years ago Napster helped make sharing the acceptable way to amass a huge un-paid-for music collection. Those initial everything-for-free addicts now have kids of their own brought up with an equal expectation of getting things without paying for them.

To people who are exposed to the internet a lot porn is becoming something that is just there for entertainment with less and less feeling of a need to hide it.

It may be quite easy now to get a settlement on someone downloading the guy getting ass fucked by a tranny but less simple to get a settlement on fairly ordinary boy/girl stuff. Wait too long and the fairly ordinary boy/girl stuff won't be enough to scare people into automatically paying up to keep quiet at all.

oh yeah, I totally forgot the top recommendations of things to do when you are in a lawsuit: talk to the media and tell them what goes on in your case and post on gfy to people who desire to create drama.(sense the sarcasm)

If you look back we have offered minimal commentary on all aspects of litigation in every litigation we have been in. Additionally, that is how most companies operate. When there is something to comment about, comments are issued.

More strength to you guys. Let's get this thing organised and automated.

There is no "specific" normal guy. But...for instance, my grandfather ran a big citrus harvesting company. He was just as "naughty" a person as anybody else (mistresses, houses for meeting up with girls he was fucking, etc.)

But every Sunday he was in church with my grandmother. He also sponsored a pee wee football team, was on the chamber of commerce, etc., etc.

And all of his employees were of course associated with all his charities and community service. It's how business is done.

When I was in South Carolina I wrote big checks to the downtown reclamation project and to the police charities as well. Had a "get out of jail" sticker on my bumper which pretty much guaranteed you never got pulled over.

Now to the "little guys"...they may not go to church. They may not contribute to their community...but they ARE married and/or have girlfriends. They do have family that does go to church. They do have jobs. And since they aren't at the upper level of income, they can NOT afford to go to court.

I see what you are saying...but your statement is a theory. I'm seeing it happen in real life right now. Yes, porn is more "accepted" if you mean that Ron Jeremy can be on television. But once you are being dragged to court in your hometown for downloading a skinny little teen being gang ass fucked by a basketball team...it suddenly ain't so accepted.

And you can take that from a guy who has had to keep my guard up since the mid 1990's. I simply can't tell most people what I do. The bank will close your account.

My neighborhood is a gated community with a home owners association and since it's in Vegas it's full of Mormons.

I know all of them. Do they pretty much know that Claudia-Marie lives here? Yes. Would I ever confirm that it's really her? Hell no. As long as I keep a low profile and don't rub it in their faces they will TOLERATE it.

Let me get into some kind of legal trouble that brings any kind of negative publicity? I'd be run out on a rail.

You guys don't owe anybody on here anything. You do what you have to do to get legal satisfaction from having your stuff stolen.

The only one who should be issuing any kind of statement would be XBiz for putting out misinformation. Not you.

Maybe there is a more uptight attitude in America than Europe then.

some related reading:

http://torrentfreak.com/leaked-email...scheme-100926/

http://torrentfreak.com/acslaw-gay-p...ed-men-100925/

That doesn't even begin to describe it.

Our countries societal hangups and religious horseshit are insane.

I was amazed at the freedom in Amsterdam for instance. I was looking at a hooker through a window in the shadow of a thousand year old Cathedral.

Meanwhile the town I was living in at the time back here in the U.S. wouldn't even allow a restaurant to serve wine or beer with a meal within a mile of any church. And since that was South Carolina they had "Blue Laws" which said NO alcohol could be served from Satuday night at midnight until Sunday at midnight.

And those same Blue Laws said you couldn't buy anything but food products on Sunday until 1 p.m. when all the churches would let out. Yep, that's right. I went to Walmart one Sunday to buy some chlorine shock for my pool and it was 12:30 and they refused to sell it to me until after 1 p.m.

To say the U.S. has a more "uptight attitude" is an understatement.

I thought pink visual settled ?

I would think at the very least you would have xbiz correct their story if it is inaccurate.

It's along the lines that people should not plagiarize a book to duplicate content.

Prosecute people/surfers for watching a clip at PornHub etc... I dont see that happening any time soon.

The mainstream media is eating this story up! I predict 20/20 or 60 minutes will be talking about this soon. (hint of inside info there maybe?)

I know for a fact that these suits are already scaring people away from torrents. I've personally had a couple people tell me they won't be using torrents for porn anymore.

Steve Lightspeed

Pull up a pornhub clip, in public, somewhere and see how long that lasts

if you think i give a flying fuck what you think, you are mistaken.

Nice... no mistake made on your part this time.

I applause you guys for trying to do something about this, but I don't don't think it will even work. First and foremost, mainstream company have already tired what you are about to attempt and they spend a lot more on lawyer fees and last time I check their stuff is still online. Until they are successful then you should copy. I'm sure they have even smarter people and better lawyers.

Secondly, it unlike you'll catch the biggest fish or the biggest abuser as they are more than likely to mask their identity. Criminal are smart and they know know how to hide behind the screen. Although some people have talk about how they can mask their IP, there is actually a better way to hide your real IP and remain annoymous and I'm pretty sure some of you know what I'm talking about but I rather not discuss it here to encourage people to do illegal things.

Furthermore regardless if you paid your lawyers or not (as I've been hearing lawyer in some case are working for a cut of the settlement) you always have to remember that lawyers do not have their client interest as their number one priority, your interest is second, behind theirs. That is, they will take care of you, but only in a way that will make sure they get the most profit. So no surprising they'll do anything to attempt to get a settlement to make sure they'll get paid first. In fact, if they are successful do you really thing they'll want to really shut down all these site for you? If these site no longer exist they will no longer have you as clients. And don't forget the RIAA have successfully sue some people but that don't solve the problem nor do they have successfully attempt to scare people from stop uploading/downing their music or close down the site.

I'm not suggesting not to use lawyers. I'm suggesting use them but you need to guide them to what you want done, in a creative way (i.e go after their host instead of them directly or other methods). Tubes and torrnets have been skimming or finding loop holes to allow them to easy bypass or win cases (i.e DMCA). You need to be creative and do the same and stop suing them by the letter of the law. Creative and indirect method unfortunately will not equal settlement and something lawyers do not like as they will not able to take a cut for profits, but it the best way IMHO. If mainstream does not show any major success after years and years of attempt, I just don't know how these lawyers think they can win when I'm sure the RIAA have more tools and lawyers.

Finally people always have to remember that even cases where the RIAA wins, it doesn't always translate into money as you probably see why as an average Joe can't pay back $100K or so that they were order to pay. Furthermore, many people who are internet/tech savvy are college students or young adult. Try even sue a college student for just $10K and see if they have the money. So even collecting the dough is tough. And sooner or later you'll find out (and these lawyers will find out if they are working for a cut of the settlement) that the cost to sue these son of a bitches by the letter of the law is more costly than they think if they aren't collecting. A Sony or BMG executive stated something like this when he or she was call to testify in a recent case. I'm sure you guys know what case I'm talking about. That's why I'm suggesting go after them indirectly and it will be more cost effective and more likely successful - although your lawyers will not like this and attempt to steer you away from such method because they know they'll earn much less.

Either way, as I've said before, I hope you can prove I'm wrong but I'm sure some people here would agree with what I'm saying.

Then they'll just watch it on Tube, or they can google how to mask their identity and make it harder for your lawyers to catch them. I do agree it scare them, in a bad way, because it will make them be more careful and hide their identity. I very much doubt they'll stop. Not sure how this will solve the problem.

RYC is great, I will second this.

PXN I don't know you. And I'm not sure what you do or what your skill sets in this biz or experience is...but you are so far off on this subject that it's not even funny. It's already been spelled out to you several times in several threads as to why this is already working. But you just keep acting like you don't see what is already being done by many people.

Do you own a paysite? Have you ever owned a freesite? Do you have a lot of interaction with people who are customers and/or potential customers of online adult? Have you tried working with tubes, torrents, and surfer forums with your content and saw first hand that it's a dead end street too?

If the answer to those questions is "no"...then you have to realize how much weight, or lack thereof your constant posting of how "this won't work" over and over carries.

It already HAS worked. It is working at this very moment. The effects are already being felt and word of mouth is starting to spread about what is happening to people on pirate sites.

If you have any vested interest in the porn business at all...then you should be damn happy at what is happening.

As has already been pointed out time and again in these threads..this is NOT the movies or music industry. This is a whole different ballgame with an entirely different sociological impact. What is being done is a re-education to three years worth of freeloading and people thinking that they didn't have to pay for porn anymore.

Instead of your constant negativity...why don't you just sit back and watch what happens instead of posting over and over how it won't work in hopes of discouraging people from standing up for what's right.

PXN I'm not attacking you, though after reading what I wrote it came out that way.
I'm just saying...people who are actually doing this right now are telling you over and over that they are seeing results and yet you keep ignoring that and saying "it won't work"

It just makes it seem like you support piracy, even if you don't. For instance...I am 100% ANTI-Piracy and you will never see or hear me say anything supportive of thieves or negative towards efforts to nail their ass. That is MY agenda and I show it by what I say and do.

If you have a vested interest here then by all means give your opinion and thoughts. But you are sort of coming off like you have the opposite of my agenda the way you're posting. Does that make sense? I'm not trying to be a jerk or have a personal issue with you.

answers.com/topic/titan

1. Greek Mythology. One of a family of giants, the children of Uranus and Gaea, who sought to rule heaven and were overthrown and supplanted by the family of Zeus.

So if these companies are the "titans", I guess brazzers is from the Zeus family. Somehow I have a feeling the "titans" better apply for a dayjob flipping burgers, since historically they sucked ass in the long term.

So what do you think the pirate's side is?

So far all I've heard is a few of the people who see the free content will sign up. By a few they mean a tiny %. Conversion ratios, to paysites, on Tubes suck. Most would sink without ads for dating sites and webcams to support the costs. So let the Dating and Cam sites provide the content.

And 100 companies closing and 1 company picking up 50% of the lost revenue is not an advancement in my opinion. When it's done illegally it should be targeted.

Yes I do, it's you that doesn't get understand me. Maybe a lack of clarity. The social issue of pirating on the Internet goes way beyond the porn business. It covers all things that can be downloaded. They cover it up with excuses like "It's public domain." or "If it's on the Internet, it should be free."

So come up with a solution that does not lead to a loss of revenue.

Capitalise HOW?

T%hey have no respect for anyone who owns content. Any suggestions how we teach them to respect content owners? Suing them into bankruptcy works better than anything else I've seen.

A statement that says nothing. Come up with concrete ideas rather than "It will turn out all right in the end."

Maybe suing them for a profit is the opportunity you talk about. Ever thought of it like that?

This will gain some respect I bet.

Could someone with more knowledge of this correct me and educate others if I'm wrong.

If a surfer uses a company that hides their IP address, wouldn't the company do it by allowing him to use an IP address they own. So if a subpoena comes up with an IP address owned by such a company it would be easy to issue one to that company demanding they release the IP address of the original users?

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I guess I can answer that question. Depending on the set up, most "Anonymous VPN" providers wouldn't keep any logs at all. I've set up pop top servers before, for example. And by default they have no logging. It's a lot easier not to keep logs. Some of the providers of VPNs out there may have thousands of clients per server and it's simply not possible to keep logs of activity.

So really, there could be thousands or tens of thousands of people using the one IP address, and determining which one downloaded the torrent wouldn't be easily possible. Add to this the complexity of the law systems that the servers may exist in. A lot are in euro countries, asian countries etc.

Yup my same thought.

Duh,

It's not that you don't want to talk about it that bothers me, it's the better than thou attitude you've been displaying instead of a professional statement to the same effect.

I know you are WAY more professional than this but you have chosen to be defensive instead of PC.

Stop bitching and snapping at people and write a decent response like you normally would.

Damm Im starting to think that you guys should have kept this of the boards and out of the media. The same kind of action is blowing up in both lawyers faces and companys faces over here in the UK both for mainstream and porn it seems

http://torrentfreak.com/judge-warns-...emands-100922/

http://torrentfreak.com/high-profile...-farce-100926/

http://torrentfreak.com/acslaw-gay-p...ed-men-100925/

torrentfreak is hardly an "unbiased" news source

The day it was posted she came out and said it was inaccurate and wouldn't comment more.

Anyone, and I do mean anyone that has been through any type of real legal proceeding knows without question, you do not make public comments and if you do you get full permission from the courts/other side, first. And without question, you would NEVER make that statement on a Friday. Either way, anything you say WILL be used against you.


Logically we should all be demanding xbiz updates saying they made a mistake and are totally clueless on the subject.

Steve this was on the news last year which I told you about in another thread with the game companys. I thought it had all blown over and been forgotten about by now over here in the UK

TBH if I was doing the same thing I would not have made it public I would have kept it under my hat

Didn't all this happen already in Europe with it ending with egg on the faces of the company doing the chasing and the porn companies paying the pursuit? I have a recollection of some large companies in porn already trying this and the London-based firm going to town sending out shitloads of demands and receiving bad press as grandma's and shit were involved?

Similar to to how the RIAA did it, but much more agressive, less checking....

Tubes can be controlled.... Masking doesn't work, VPN's have to log IP's and records can and have been subpoenaed before.

So now we're talking about a person, skilled enough to first find VPN's that can chain, then chain them, and be doing this to actually get porn and not something of actual value. At that, if they're this skilled Torrents isn't were they get shit from.

Yes it did and it ended up being on TV, thats why I think it was rather stupid to make all of this so public