Dirty F

The debris that falls faster than the building collapses...what speed is that exactly? Free fall +? Please explain.
Also please tell us how slow exactly the building should have pancaked. I mean you have an answer to that right? It would be totally fucking dumb of you if you wouldn't.
I'm waiting.

BFT3K

The story stinks to high heaven. You have to be an Idiot to believe the government's official story...



https://youtube.com/watch?v=NHJHAp49Lh8

Dirty F

Yes, because it's way more likely 100's if not 1000's Americans were involved in planning the biggest attack on their country in the history of the US. Ofcourse without 1 of them ever coming out. Just to invade some other country. Because that was the most easy solution.
I mean come on, muslims planning an attackon the US? No way. That's just stupid.
A tower falling down because a huge fucking plane full of fuel flew in it? IMPOSSIBLE, i tell you, impossible!
It is way more likely that a group of Americans planted bombs in a huge public building for weeks without getting noticed. And then managed to keep the wiring and bombs intact one the plane destroyed i don't know how many levels. And then they managed to detonate the bombs starting right under the floor where the plane entered. That's is WAAAY more likely ofcourse.
I agree, the official story that muslims hijacked planes and used to it to destroy buildings stinks. The above is way more plausible. Anybody can see that.

BFT3K

I like that you can watch and comment on a 9 minute video, in just 5 minutes.

How about you ask the people that were actually there...



https://youtube.com/watch?v=8zyjY05wzao



https://youtube.com/watch?v=G1zED8dy63w



https://youtube.com/watch?v=PfxkcBmZfK0

Rochard

I'm not gonna watch all of the videos because I don't have that kind of free time this morning. I watched the first one, and he says "It seems like a bomb went off in the lobby". You think?

It's an established fact that fireballs raced down the elevator shafts and exploded in the lobby seconds after impact. This is well known.

So yeah, it sure did look like a bomb went off in the lobby.

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Rochard

Yeah, because Ventura is a trusted source... Who had a TV show about conspiracy theories....

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mayabong

Witnesses? who listens to those these days? I'm sure they were all interviewed and their testimony was put in the 911 report.

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MediaGuy

What about the claims that each building could take more than one plane hit?

It wouldn't be the first time that a false flag attack occurred or was allowed to occur.

Military grade explosive or steel-cutting material was found in the dust and debris. Solidified iron droplets which can only occur in foundries and thermite applications were found, in all the samples collected, by any agencies who investigated. (There was no forensic analysis or investigation by government with the exception of FEMA following the destruction of the towers, unlike every other disaster in modern world history - the debris was just shipped off).

You don't need bombs that explode per se to cut steel; and you don't need 100% of your charges to react to take down a building; as we saw the first two buildings weren't classical, 100% clean destructions. It was their speed of fall and utter pulverization that point to more than building floors giving way and slamming into those below, at the rate of ten per second.

It amazes me that we could be expected to believe even expertly trained soldiers, let alone the group of physically unimposing, unarmed guys could evade or actually just be allowed to fly in on their plane-bombs and do what they did four times in one day, yeah.

The terrorist organizations that were blamed actually had nothing to gain from what resulted compared to many other people and organizations that are supposedly on our side.

Depending on the materials, especially those supposedly found, it would not have to be done in the time frame that traditional demolitions are setup.

By the way the buildings were entirely shut down and powered down weeks prior to 9/11, for a week at a time, and much now-undocumented renovation and other infrastructure work was taking place in the six months prior as well. There were opportunities.

The pieces in the video can also be seen to go out and up, and too far out to be driven by downward momentum.

Where has this been shown? There's no logic or physical reason a top one-fifth of the building/s could have driven down and pulverized the structureally sound bottom four-fifths - espcially in so short a time, as though that bottom 4/5th part wasn't even there.

Especially the government version.

Sure, but for random shit to happen at every corner on 9/11 is beyond astronomical. For impossible or extremely improbable and absolutely unprecedented shit like steel structures to collapse from office fires not once, not twice but three times in one day is impossible to ascribe to "random shit".

Actually the theory of what happened on that flight doesn't have much to support it. It's a great story, but there's nothing to substantiate it.

I'm just saying three buildings in one day for the first time in history couldn't have collapsed from fires and planes in such a symmetrical fashion and so quickly. Pancaking on the two towers is absurd especially considering the central, vertical columns also disappeared.

Theorizing who did it can be fun but not really productive in any critical sense. Asking why Saudi Arabia wasn't brought into the investigation when most of the supposed hijackers were Saudis can be, for example, but then you're moving out of the realm of religious fanaticism and ridiculous stories of "they hate our freedom" and into a much more rarefied geo-political, follow-the-money trail that can't be substantiated beyond pointing to corporate and government affiliations past and present that on the surface are perfectly "normal".

But looking at corner-columns exploding as the buildings come down, or seeing hunks of building hundreds and even thousands of tonnes flying laterally in the air while the concrete around them is blowing off in dust plumes tells me there's more than gravity or anything we've been told so far going on there...

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Dirty F

Can you back this up somehow? Or is it just some uneducated guessing of an uneducated truther because he wants to believe?
Can't wait for your answer.

Dirty F

Waiting for answers from Wehateporn and Mediaguy. Please no copy and paste crap. for conspiracy sites. Just a straight answer in 1 or 2 sentences

scarlettcontent

this thread rocks

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wehateporn

Firstly, Free Fall is not a speed, it's the motion of a body when the only force acting on it is gravity. (often neglecting the effect of air resistance). So two bodies both falling at Free Fall do not necessarily have the same speed; it depends on how long each has been falling for.

If a Pancake Collapse were really to have taken place on September 11th, the building would not have been falling at free fall, as there would have been a resistance force exerted from each floor, meaning the buildings would have taken noticeably longer to collapse than they actually did.

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Dirty F

Wait, let's try again. Exactly how slow should the building have been collapsing instead. As you are so sure how fast it fell isn't right you must have the right answer?? Once again, it would be totally fucking stupid if you don't.

So come on dude. Post it.

BFT3K

Hey Dirty F, can you PROVE you are really alive? I'm serious.... how do you know you are not dreaming right now? The universe is estimated at 16+ BILLION years. We live maybe 70 or 80. That's like less than the blink of an eye in a day.

So, how do you know if you're living in a fantasy, or a dream, or just a thought in someone else's mind? When you see blue, is it the same color I see as blue?

There are hundreds of theories about 911. Maybe 90% can be debunked. Does that mean it's now time to believe everything else we are told by 6 media conglomerates?

If a spaceship lands in nowheresville Nebraska in 1955, and 500 people witness space aliens and all evidence getting dragged off by government officials, you would think that's proof enough. But if the government finds and/or plants a few guys into the story (maybe drunks, maybe criminals, etc.) who then tell the press that they saw pink elephants and purple aliens fighting in the field that night, then the story becomes ridiculous.

Even if the story was true, the narrative has been stolen, and the fake information about crazy people witnessing pink elephants and purple aliens steals the headline. Now it never happened. Think about it...

wehateporn

That would take many calculations (which I'm sure someone has performed), all that can be said without those is that it would be noticeably slower, and certainly not close to free fall rate

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mayabong

The buildings were so heavy that they bent the laws of physics that day. You want to see a pancake collapse, check out what the buildings look like in cities after huge earthquakes.

Are you jewish, still testing my theory. lol

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Dirty F

Wow...what are you saying? You actually have no fucking clue and you're talking out of your ass??? Noooo....a truther talking out of his ass...who would've expected that!

Dirty F

Can you back this up somehow? Or is it just some uneducated guessing straight out of your ass because you want it to be a conspiracy?

WarChild

Franck, you're wasting your time arguing with lunatics. Get on with your day. Go to the gym, work on your business, hang out with friends or do something else that will actually have meaning. Just a suggestion.

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Dirty F

I don't have friends but other than that i'm doing it all.
Just had dinner and in 2 hour hours i'm gonna do some Billy Bootcamp abs work out

Dirty F

Amazing how things work in the fantasyworld of a truther. Just throw around some claims and no need to back it up.

porno jew

jonnyclips thinks the world is controlled by aliens who live in the hollow earth. wehateporn promotes the theories of those who think vaccines are a jewish conspiracy to poison gentiles. these guys are low iq idiots why even bother with them?

mayabong

The israeli's have attacked american targets more than once trying to pin it on arabs. This is a fact, of course facts are antisemetic. You are more than happy to keep people fighting over how a building collapsed for 10 years instead of looking at who was really involved and who actually benefited from this situation.

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MediaGuy

Actually they didn't, I meant FEMA. You couldn't have because NIST never investigated or analysed anything past the initiation of collapse. They denied free fall until they were blue in the face and still have nothing to say on the presence of molten iron in the debris. Actually they deny that outright.

NIST contradicts FEMA on several points as well, but FEMA was taken off the investigation apparently after it found improbably corroded and melted steel that it admitted was a complete mystery.

Depends who is testifying. FAA reports contacting NORAD (I believe, or some other military branch) before 9:00 AM, the military itself contradicted its own 9/11 commission testimony several times... what you're saying is apparently one version, and not at all what I've read.

Nah, this was much more explicit and obvious than that. There were several operations and investigations that were shut down. If you read certain recent reports and interviews with Richard Clarke and senators who were on the initial joint inquiry, you'll see this.

[QUOTE=**********;18811909]You are implying that because they they are embedded into the ground, that at worst they would oscillate in an earth quake. [/quite]
Actually what I meant to imply was that they are designed to withstand things like earthquakes and progressive damage caused by high winds because of the flexibility and ability to oscillate and "go with the flow" as it were.

Of course the didn't fall due to oscillation. That's what I wrote. Oscillation prevents the effects of structural stress by absorbing and dispersing it.

This has been laughed at by more educated minds than yours or mine. Pancake theory is simply refuted by the lack of pancake collapse debris, and the utter destruction of the "spindle" or core columns, in the case of the two towers.

The absence of evidence in the official story and it's physical improbability if not impossibility makes their theorizing and computer models pretty much less substantial than molten iron in the debris, iron spheres in the dust of adjacent buildings (found by independent as well as government investigators) and what has been found to be residue of thermite and/or thermate in the dust. That isn't zero proof, that is physical, documented proof.

The government provides no proof except carefully worded explanations of events "leading to" collapse initiation, without the physical proof to back it up. It's theory, coupled with inaccurate and speculative computer simulations and proves nothing to me except that you can produce enough scientific jargon to prove that rabbits can fly and water isn't wet.

:D

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DWB

Very valid point. He probably is dreaming and can't prove it otherwise.

Do what they do in Inception and shoot yourself in the head. That's one sure way to find out.

porno jew

proves nothing except you have become a sad and pathetic racist and bigot. congrats.

mayabong

Haha typical response. Whoops we got caught! HURRY PULL THE ANTISEMITE RACIST CARD! Don't you guys ever learn?

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porno jew

no. you have poisoned your mind with conspiracy theories and became the thing you used to despise. a hateful, small minded, bigot. congrats your de-evolution to a low grade moron.

mayabong

Which conspiracy theories? The one where the Israeli's attacked american targets in Egypt dressed like arabs called the Lavon affair

The 2 hour long bombing of an american ship in international waters?

The fact that 5 israeli's were arrested on 911 reported with explosives and sent home?

Show me the conspiracy theory? lol

Thanks for proving my point that facts are racist and antisemetic.

wehateporn

For Dirty F, let's use the Billiard Ball example.

Case 1
If we were to drop it from the same height as WTC1 in a vacuum (i.e. no air resistance) it would take 9.22 Seconds to hit the pavement. It would take a bit longer if we did include air resistance. Notice how the billiard ball speeds up throughout the fall


Case 2
‘Progressive Collapse’ in ten-floor intervals - Let's imagine that 9 out of every 10 floors were already damaged, and provided no resistance at all, so only every 10th floor is resisting the fall (very generous I'm sure you'll agree). Every 10 floors the collapse would slow down temporarily. Remember that no floor below the collapse can begin moving until the pancake collapse reaches it. In total the collapse would take a minimum of 30.6 seconds.


Case 3
‘Progressive Collapse’ in one-floor intervals - Now we'll consider the case where every floor provides resistance in the collapse. The time for collapse is now 96.7 Seconds.


Case 4
‘Progressive Collapse’ at near free-fall speed - If we were to start collapsing each floor below the 'pancaking' before the 'pancaking' reaches it. Here we get 9.22 Seconds! For the entire building to be on the floor in 9.22 Seconds, each floor below the 'pancaking' must start moving before the 'pancaking' reaches it i.e. it would require a detonation or destruction sequence.


Conclusion
The explanations in the 9/11 Commission Report and NIST are not physically possible, a new investigation is required

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porno jew

read what you just wrote. yeah. you are a fucking moron. congrats on being a brainwashed hateful idiot. your family must be proud.

wehateporn

mayabong,

I wouldn't waste time with the forum semi-bots/coffee bitches; they're only doing their job of annoying people to ensure you keep on posting. Also watch out for when they pop in disguised as a genuine poster spouting complete junk

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Phoenix

it is amazing to see how far off both sides are on this issue.
i see people from both camps making statements which just aren't true. Either, they are spouting the popular belief, or even what they thought is the official explanation.

People are not able to remember all the details, or it seems that they perhaps never knew the details, and just piece it together.
One thing is for sure. Alex jones is making bank...lol

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porno jew

you think vaccines are a jewish plot to kill gentiles. think about that and how fucked in the head you are. your opinions are worthless.

Dirty F

WarChild

That's just one of the crazy things that idiot believes. He also thinks the United Nations is an autonomous organization controlled by world bankers and bent on the destruction of society.

What do you want to bet he's a young guy living at home, has no real education to speak of, has no real world experience and making somewhere around minimum wage?

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BFT3K

Weird how once all of the dust settled, the man who was blamed for this is now dead, and the one who supposedly had nothing to do with it has made BILLION$ in an insurance pay out.

wehateporn

Proof or Ban

This is a classic example of the kind of crap the coffee bitches come up with

This will be my last reply to them

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WarChild

You're not in the position to ban anybody you fucking lunatic.

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porno jew

gimmie a sec. i'll dig up your old posts.

wehateporn

Now look closely at who got annoyed after my 'Coffee-Bitch' post #671, even though I didn't name names, it's clear who was insulted at being exposed. Now they'll even try to get some type of forum revenge by making stuff up e.g.

- "WeHatePorn once quoted a guy who once said something really nasty!"

- "Did WeHatePorn quote the nasty bit?"

- "No, he didn't know about that, and it wasn't relevant anyway"

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Vjo

Ok. Well the jury is still out for me then. I don't know. I try and get my head around all that weight and concrete VS a steel frame structure that really shouldn't collapse that easily.

I'd like to see a model put together based on the ratios of frame strength vs concrete and overall weight supported. Then pick up the top 20 floors (or whatever it was) of the model and drop it two floors free fall.

My instincts say the frame holds up but Wiki and many others say diff.

I don't know yet.

I do admire folks who argue for truth. And you all have a thicker skin than me. I get way too sensitive when Frank calls me "retardo boy" lol

Anyhow kudos to "truthers" who are only doing what they believe is correct.

2MuchMark

CurentlySober likes poo!

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Frisky Sparrow?

OY

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Rochard

I don't believe in everything the government tells me. I have no idea what happened at Roswell (And I've read a lot about it), no clue about the Gulf of Tonkin incident, and I think JFK and the magic bullet is pure fantasy.

But when it comes to 9/11, we all saw two airplanes hit two towers and then watched two towers fall. Nothing that the so called "truth movement" has shown me as even made me consider anything else. "They" can't even come up with are valid reason why we are want to invade Afghanistan - there isn't a good reason. And if this was some kind of false fag attack, why use airplanes at all?

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mayabong

3 buildings.

Ann-Angelcom

Eh no point in continuing this. You're not going to be able to explain physics to someone who's only education consists of making a porn gallery and putting it online. The whole free fall theory is disregarded because it's too complicated to understand. It involves science and the people who defend the govt Answers on 9-11 live in a bubble and no matter what facts you throw at them they will continue to say show me proof. If you have Silverstein the owner of the entire site, in an interview, 2 days after the whole event, telling you that they decided to pull building 7, what more proof do you need that building 7 was demolished? The owner is telling you it was done!!! Holy shit!

I lost friends there tha day. My grandfather was also on his way home from work in manhattan that day. Another friend got off the bus outside of the tunnel that comes out right at the site moments before the collapse took place. Her and her twin sister almost lost their lives as they ran from the falling building. I watched every moment unfold on NYC news. Not Arizona news or whatever. I have friends who were firemen there that day who are alive still (thank god) who saw way more than you long distance experts ever did.

Your ignorance is doing a disservice to people like this. It's not a bad thing to ask for answers! For you to attack truthers because you think you just know it all just because you do is arrogant and ignorant. Because you live in a bubble makes you think that a govt can in no way take part in something like this or to think that no one else in the world was really behind this because the world is made of pink fluffy bunnies and clouds.

Silverstein increased his insurance policy on the site just days before 9-11. Then he tells you they decided to pull the buildings. Connect the dots if you can't understand physics at least! In any other crime investigation motive leads to the killer. Use your brains for two seconds people!

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