Tip for affiliates on CCBill/Verotel/Zombaio programs. - GoFuckYourself.com

signupdamnit · 09-09-2010, 09:23 AM

Don't forget to type in the regular url and see what the default billing choice is. If it isn't the same one that you are sending traffic to there is a good chance that the cookie which gets set is pretty much worthless. You'll often only get credit if they buy immediately after they click your link in that case.

Example:

1. You send the surfer to the site using a ccbill refer link.
2. They don't buy but they bookmark the page.
3. One hour later they use the bookmark and come back to the page.
4. The default billing option is Zombaio from the bookmark. So it never sees your CCbill cookie. No credit for you. Sponsor takes 100% of the sale. You get nothing.

It's getting more popular for programs to use many different billing systems and this could be another reasons why you are seeing your conversion rates get worse.

Note that the above is not true in all cases. It's possible to put in a system which handles this but from my experience few programs bother. Obviously something like NATS would be a different case if properly configured.

What % of surfers would you estimate do not buy immediately? Perhaps somewhere between 10% - 30% ? That could be a lot of money.

Dirty Dane · 09-09-2010, 09:38 AM

Some sponsors use cascade, all paid by ccbill

signupdamnit · 09-09-2010, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

Some sponsors use cascade, all paid by ccbill

Check the example again. I think it's different than what you are thinking of. We're talking about ccbill cookies being set but the surfer never getting sent to ccbill again at all. Instead to Zombaio. Zombaio (and others) doesn't read ccbill cookies and unless it's initially going through ccbill first then I don't believe a cascade actually applies.

This seems like a clever way to skim affiliates. Under such a setup you may as well not even have cookies.

Barefootsies · 09-09-2010, 09:48 AM

Crafty devil....

TheDA · 09-09-2010, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Don't forget to type in the regular url and see what the default billing choice is. If it isn't the same one that you are sending traffic to there is a good chance that the cookie which gets set is pretty much worthless. You'll often only get credit if they buy immediately after they click your link in that case.

Example:

1. You send the surfer to the site using a ccbill refer link.
2. They don't buy but they bookmark the page.
3. One hour later they use the bookmark and come back to the page.
4. The default billing option is Zombaio from the bookmark. So it never sees your CCbill cookie. No credit for you. Sponsor takes 100% of the sale. You get nothing.

It's getting more popular for programs to use many different billing systems and this could be another reasons why you are seeing your conversion rates get worse.

Note that the above is not true in all cases. It's possible to put in a system which handles this but from my experience few programs bother. Obviously something like NATS would be a different case if properly configured.

What % of surfers would you estimate do not buy immediately? Perhaps somewhere between 10% - 30% ? That could be a lot of money.

Can you show an example? In fact, never mind an example, have you got a list of anyone that's doing it already?

TheDA · 09-09-2010, 09:54 AM

Does CCBill even cascade to Verotel or Zombaio? Anyone know?

signupdamnit · 09-09-2010, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDA

Can you show an example? In fact, never mind an example, have you got a list of anyone that's doing it already?

I've ran into quite a few recently. It seems very popular now.

I'm not convinced that many doing it are doing it to be thieves, I'm thinking a few just didn't think or it.

I'll wait a few weeks before listing the ones I have ran into.

Hopefully I'm missing something here but I don't believe that I am.

Dirty Dane · 09-09-2010, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDA

Does CCBill even cascade to Verotel or Zombaio? Anyone know?

Some do with epoch. The sale is credited into ccbill stats. I don't know about verotel or zombaio. And it's not by default you should check with the program before assuming it.

signupdamnit · 09-09-2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDA

Does CCBill even cascade to Verotel or Zombaio? Anyone know?

In relation to this I believe in order to cascade with say ccbill in a way that you'd get credit for sales the surfer needs to first be sent to ccbill. If ccbill could not process it might hand off to verotel. I believe it uses a return code/post back from verotel to figure out whether or not the affiliate should get credit then.

So if you set a ccbill cookie but send the surfer directly to Verotel then there's no way for ccbill to credit the affiliate because it never sees the transaction or a result.

This is my understanding of it. I don't know if ccbill cascades to verotel or not. This actually seems different than a normal cascade.

Dirty Dane · 09-09-2010, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Check the example again. I think it's different than what you are thinking of. We're talking about ccbill cookies being set but the surfer never getting sent to ccbill again at all. Instead to Zombaio. Zombaio (and others) doesn't read ccbill cookies and unless it's initially going through ccbill first then I don't believe a cascade actually applies.

This seems like a clever way to skim affiliates. Under such a setup you may as well not even have cookies.

It depends on the browser settings. I don't know about zombaio but some use epoch for cascade.

I think rejected ccbill signup -> redirect to alternative sponsor , is greater "skim" than the one you mention.

But it's one of the things to look for. Always check the sites before promoting and do checks later if sales decrease.

Stephen · 09-09-2010, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDA

Does CCBill even cascade to Verotel or Zombaio? Anyone know?

You can cascade-to-URL using CCBill, but I believe it's only a single pass-off (you can't use the system to send to processor B then C then D, just from A to B)

signupdamnit · 09-09-2010, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

It depends on the browser settings. I don't know about zombaio but some use epoch for cascade.

I think rejected ccbill signup -> redirect to alternative sponsor , is greater "skim" than the one you mention.

But it's one of the things to look for. Always check the sites before promoting and do checks later if sales decrease.

Both are definitely bad. The one you mention is bad if there is no cascade in place which gives credit to affiliates. But the one you mention only comes into play for declines.
The one I mention here comes into play whenever the surfer does not immediately buy. IOW, the affiliate cookie is worthless.

I definitely concur with your advice though. It's shocking how common this seems to be. I know of a few program owners who post here that have things set up this way. Personally I wonder if they are even aware of it. They seem like honest people, this is why I'm hesitant to call them out. Hopefully some will see this and consider other choices.
I'll offer some suggestions soon. One for instance might be to set an extra cookie on your site. If that cookie is read automatically direct the surfer to the affiliate processor first.

signupdamnit · 09-09-2010, 10:20 AM

Keep in mind we aren't talking about a rejected signups here or even a regular cascade

We're talking about the affiliate program using one processor and the sponsor using another processor by default when a surfer enters their site other than through an affiliate code.

Ideally if the program has a cookie length set at say 30 days and any surfer comes back by typing in the sponsor's root url (or bookmark) then that affiliate should be getting credit as intended. For that to happen in the most simple way that surfer should be sent to the affiliate processor. But if the surfer isn't being sent to say CCbill in the first place, then the affiliate isn't getting credit for that return visitor.

CCBill Paul · 09-09-2010, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDA

Does CCBill even cascade to Verotel or Zombaio? Anyone know?

We certainly can.

If a sponsor is using our cascading system CCBill will payout on sales through Epoch and SegPay regardless of the processor order. However the customer must go through our cascading link in order for this to work correctly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

You can cascade-to-URL using CCBill, but I believe it's only a single pass-off (you can't use the system to send to processor B then C then D, just from A to B)

This is correct, CCBill sponsors can cascade to any other processor using our system and with a bit of work on the sponsors end we can even payout on those sales.

signupdamnit · 09-09-2010, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCBill Paul

We certainly can.

If a sponsor is using our cascading system CCBill will payout on sales through Epoch and SegPay regardless of the processor order. However the customer must go through our cascading link in order for this to work correctly.

This is what I thought as well. So in the example case an affiliate does not get credit when the ccbill affiliate cookie is set unless the sponsor sends the user through the ccbill cascade. Thus if they simply send the user to verotel without first going through ccbill's cascade again the webmaster will not get credit. Is that correct?

chronig · 09-09-2010, 02:21 PM

Makes perfect sense that the affiliate would NOT get credited, if they are referring through ccbill affiliate link, surfer returns to site at later date, and the default biller is zombaio/etc. Worth checking into I guess...

garce · 09-09-2010, 02:33 PM

After reading this thread I checked a CCBill program that i had just added new links and content to. Literally, this was the last CCBill site I linked to before reading this post.

Clicking my CCBill link (on my website) and arriving at their tour, I clicked on their join page link and got this page: www.***************.com/tour/join.php. Clicking the "Join Now By Credit Card" link, I'm directed to https://bill.ccbill.com/jpost/signup.cgi

Typing the website's url without my affiliate code lands me at (after clicking the "Join Now" link): http://www.***************.com/join.php. Subtle difference.

Clicking the "Join Now By Credit Card" link, I'm directed to: https://bill.ccbill.com/jpost/billingCascade.cgi

I'm gonna guess that my cookie gets carried over to the different join form, but its easier for me to delete the links than it is to check my cookies.

Site deleted.

signupdamnit · 09-09-2010, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garce

After reading this thread I checked a CCBill program that i had just added new links and content to. Literally, this was the last CCBill site I linked to before reading this post.

Clicking my CCBill link (on my website) and arriving at their tour, I clicked on their join page link and got this page: www.***************.com/tour/join.php. Clicking the "Join Now By Credit Card" link, I'm directed to https://bill.ccbill.com/jpost/signup.cgi

Typing the website's url without my affiliate code lands me at (after clicking the "Join Now" link): http://www.***************.com/join.php. Subtle difference.

Clicking the "Join Now By Credit Card" link, I'm directed to: https://bill.ccbill.com/jpost/billingCascade.cgi

Well that's your choice but that's not so much what I am concerned about.

I'm gonna guess that my cookie gets carried over to the different join form, but its easier for me to delete the links than it is to check my cookies.

Site deleted.

It's your choice but that's not so much what I mean. If there's a working cascade then if it's set up correctly you should get credit. But I suppose I could understand how it might make you worry.

Hold on, I'll post an example of what I mean in a few minutes using an actual program that seems to be doing this.

DWB · 09-09-2010, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Don't forget to type in the regular url and see what the default billing choice is. If it isn't the same one that you are sending traffic to there is a good chance that the cookie which gets set is pretty much worthless. You'll often only get credit if they buy immediately after they click your link in that case.

Example:

1. You send the surfer to the site using a ccbill refer link.
2. They don't buy but they bookmark the page.
3. One hour later they use the bookmark and come back to the page.
4. The default billing option is Zombaio from the bookmark. So it never sees your CCbill cookie. No credit for you. Sponsor takes 100% of the sale. You get nothing.

It's getting more popular for programs to use many different billing systems and this could be another reasons why you are seeing your conversion rates get worse.

Note that the above is not true in all cases. It's possible to put in a system which handles this but from my experience few programs bother. Obviously something like NATS would be a different case if properly configured.

What % of surfers would you estimate do not buy immediately? Perhaps somewhere between 10% - 30% ? That could be a lot of money.

If they bookmark a page that an affiliate sent them to, then they come back to THAT page. Why would they be sent to a different biller if they bookmarked a page an affiliate sent them to?

DWB · 09-09-2010, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garce

After reading this thread I checked a CCBill program that i had just added new links and content to. Literally, this was the last CCBill site I linked to before reading this post.

Clicking my CCBill link (on my website) and arriving at their tour, I clicked on their join page link and got this page: www.***************.com/tour/join.php. Clicking the "Join Now By Credit Card" link, I'm directed to https://bill.ccbill.com/jpost/signup.cgi

Typing the website's url without my affiliate code lands me at (after clicking the "Join Now" link): http://www.***************.com/join.php. Subtle difference.

Clicking the "Join Now By Credit Card" link, I'm directed to: https://bill.ccbill.com/jpost/billingCascade.cgi

I'm gonna guess that my cookie gets carried over to the different join form, but its easier for me to delete the links than it is to check my cookies.

Site deleted.

Jesus Christ, either I am a total retard and am missing the point, or.... anyway, if you send your traffic to a ccbill tour (sites choose where that traffic goes in the ccbill admin) then your traffic NEVER will see their index page or any other tour they use unless they type it in directly. If they do that, you've lost them anyway.

Who cares what biller they use on NON affiliate tours? Those tours are none of your business.

signupdamnit · 09-09-2010, 03:11 PM

Disclaimer: I'm not accusing Xpromote of doing this on purpose or being cheaters. I'm only using them as an example. I posted about the apparent problem I noticed with them a week ago: http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=985066 and do not believe they even know of it. They are by no means the only ones doing this.

1. Sign up at http://www.xpromote.com

2. Sign up to promote "Bushy Females"

3. The link code you get will be like:

Code:

http://links.verotel.com/cgi-bin/showsite.verotel?vercode=29524:XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

(you must change XXXXXXXXXX to your verotel code)

---

If you'd rather not sign up and want to see it in action perhaps use the link from Rabbit's Reviews:

http://www.rabbitsreviews.com/bushyfemales-5923.html

Then click "Join BushyFemales" from that page and proceed below.

4. Now once the surfer clicks that code it directs them to Verotel, which then directs them to:

http://bushyfemales.com/tour.html

5. Click "JOIN NOW". Then Click "INSTANT ACCESS".

6. Note that it's Verotel.

7. Now go to http://bushyfemales.com (type it in manually)

8. Click "ENTER HERE". (Notice you are at http://bushyfemales.com/main.html and NOT http://bushyfemales.com/tour.html as was default with your affiliate code). Now click "JOIN NOW" and then "INSTANT ACCESS"

9. Notice you are likely at a CCBILL Join form.

Ponder whether you get credit for a customer doing this. It's my understanding that you don't. In this case if they bookmarked the page "http://bushyfemales.com/tour.html" you might still get credit, but not if they say type-in "http://bushyfemales.com/".

This is correct to the best of my understanding. There is a possibility that I am incorrect about something. Form your own conclusions.

signupdamnit · 09-09-2010, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

unless they type it in directly.

There lies the issue. People do type it in after visiting once. Especially if it's all over the promotional material. Normally an affiliate with say a 30 day cookie would get that credit but with this set up they do not since it uses the other processor. It can be a hit anywhere from 10% - 30% very easily for the affiliate. Normally affiliates think that cookie should credit them if the surfer they sent 1 hour ago comes back via a type-in -- but apparently not in this case.

If Bushyfemales used Verotel as their default processor (or set up something to handle this, OR switched the affiliate program to ccbill) then I WOULD normally get credit for the sale as referenced above in the step by step. As it is now, apparently I don't.

signupdamnit · 09-09-2010, 03:27 PM

For anyone confused consider that the effect is basically the same as being an affiliate for a NATS program that overwrites affiliate cookies for all type-in traffic.

Although it isn't the same problem technically, the result seems to be the same. No credit for type ins. So whether the cookie is 3 days, 30 days or 365 days, it matters little for type ins.

DWB · 09-09-2010, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

There lies the issue. People do type it in after visiting once. Especially if it's all over the promotional material. Normally an affiliate with say a 30 day cookie would get that credit but with this set up they do not since it uses the other processor. It can be a hit anywhere from 10% - 30% very easily for the affiliate. Normally affiliates think that cookie should credit them if the surfer they sent 1 hour ago comes back via a type-in -- but apparently not in this case.

If Bushyfemales used Verotel as their default processor (or set up something to handle this, OR switched the affiliate program to ccbill) then I WOULD normally get credit for the sale as referenced above in the step by step. As it is now, apparently I don't.

Type it in, yes, some will. But a bookmark will send them right to where you left them.

I don't really see this as a problem. They can just as easily find another link and get a new cookie from someone else, or Google the site name and find another tour to yet another biller and you're in the same boat.

Lots of people use Google to type in domain names. www.site.com and hit GO. No telling what will show up there.

I don't think this small issue is one to pull links over. The amount of guys who may do this is going to be very, very small, and there is a better chance someone else's cookie will replace yours before anyway.

Some programs run NATS and CCbill side by side. One of them is going to get the type in sale. That's just the way it is.

signupdamnit · 09-09-2010, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Type it in, yes, some will. But a bookmark will send them right to where you left them.

I don't really see this as a problem. They can just as easily find another link and get a new cookie from someone else, or Google the site name and find another tour to yet another biller and you're in the same boat.

Lots of people use Google to type in domain names. www.site.com and hit GO. No telling what will show up there.

I don't think this small issue is one to pull links over. The amount of guys who may do this is going to be very, very small, and there is a better chance someone else's cookie will replace yours before anyway.

Some programs run NATS and CCbill side by side. One of them is going to get the type in sale. That's just the way it is.

If I type "Bushyfemales" in Google the #1 result for me is bushyfemales.com.

Under the old way they had the program (Verotel only) I would have received credit for such a sale if I had referred them within the lifetime of the Verotel cookie (which I think is 30 days by default).

I HAVE definitely seen a difference with it.

You have to realize that if we're talking about microniches the odds of someone else's cookie replacing yours is considerably smaller.

In Xpromote's case I'd prefer to switch to the CCbill program, if they will offer it. I'm hesitant to pull links but I will switch to a competitor for future promotion over this. Why wouldn't I? We could easily be talking 30% of sales. Even 10% would be noticeable. I won't say which sponsor it is but one that I send to like this typically gets $1000 - $1500 in sales per month from me. 30% of $1,500 is $450 per month just because you switched the default processor.

Remember that in a micro niche they probably never heard of the sponsor before me....

DWB · 09-09-2010, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

For anyone confused consider that the effect is basically the same as being an affiliate for a NATS program that overwrites affiliate cookies for all type-in traffic.

Although it isn't the same problem technically, the result seems to be the same. No credit for type ins. So whether the cookie is 3 days, 30 days or 365 days, it matters little for type ins.

As a site owner, I don't feel affiliates are entitled to type-in traffic. I'm not going to be forced into one biller for my internal traffic and risk putting all my eggs in one basket for such a small, small percentage of people who MAY type it in and still have your cookie, so I can get 50% of a sale. No thanks. No offense, but I'd rather lose the affiliate than risk losing it all by putting every sale in the same basket.

That is where site owners send their own traffic and build tours to try to get better SEO placement. Affiliates get their own tour and their biller. For that 0.001% who type it in later and actually still had your cookie, yea, you lost them. That's the breaks, you can't have it all. Type-in tours are not for affiliates to begin with.

DWB · 09-09-2010, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

If I type "Bushyfemales" in Google the #1 result for me is bushyfemales.com.

Under the old way they had the program (Verotel only) I would have received credit for such a sale if I had referred them within the lifetime of the Verotel cookie (which I think is 30 days by default).

I HAVE definitely seen a difference with it.

You have to realize that if we're talking about microniches the odds of someone else's cookie replacing yours is considerably smaller.

In Xpromote's case I'd prefer to switch to the CCbill program, if they will offer it. I'm hesitant to pull links but I will switch to a competitor for future promotion over this. Why wouldn't I? We could easily be talking 30% of sales. Even 10% would be noticeable. I won't say which sponsor it is but one that I send to like this typically gets $1000 - $1500 in sales per month from me. 30% of $1,500 is $450 per month just because you switched the default processor.

I *think* I understand what you are trying to say.

You're not talking 30% in sales. Not even 10%. What you have is a very small percent (probably less than 1%) who would A) still have to have your cookie, B) actually return via a type-in, and C) He would have to return before the cookie expired.

Even with a micro niche site the odds are not in your favor. You have to line up three things in order to get that sale. Not an easy task. Possible? Of course, but odds are against you on this I believe. It's probably not worth pulling links over if you're already making money with them.

Other things to consider: Maybe they rotate the biller for their internal traffic. Maybe they overwrite your cookie anyway should you have everything line up for a type-in sale. Maybe the percent is so small and the odds are so slim, that it's not worth worrying about.

signupdamnit · 09-09-2010, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

As a site owner, I don't feel affiliates are entitled to type-in traffic. I'm not going to be forced into one biller for my internal traffic and risk putting all my eggs in one basket for such a small, small percentage of people who MAY type it in and still have your cookie, so I can get 50% of a sale. No thanks. No offense, but I'd rather lose the affiliate than risk losing it all by putting every sale in the same basket.

That is where site owners send their own traffic and build tours to try to get better SEO placement. Affiliates get their own tour and their biller. For that 0.001% who type it in later and actually still had your cookie, yea, you lost them. That's the breaks, you can't have it all. Type-in tours are not for affiliates to begin with.

You can easily set an additional cookie and then when the user clicks the join link from the type-in you would send them to the correct affiliate processor.

You would set this cookie to be equal in length to to the length of the 3rd party affiliate cookie.

Thus for people not previously referred by affiliates within X days they would still go to the preferred processor.

You act as if it is asking for more to receive credit in this case but it isn't. It's been the expectation for a decade. Most webmasters think that once their affiliate cookie is set they will get credit for type-ins. Otherwise the cookie is almost worthless. It's largely just ignorance that others don't consider it.

You're also correct that some have overwritten the cookie before doing this. Many years ago I caught one CCbill program which used their own ccbill affiliate link as the main join link (for all type ins) so that the affiliate would never get credit after a typein (it would always see the program owners special affiliate code). I thought it was a pretty crummy thing to do and of course never sent them traffic.

As I said in this case I doubt many sponsors have even considered it.

signupdamnit · 09-09-2010, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

I *think* I understand what you are trying to say.

You're not talking 30% in sales. Not even 10%. What you have is a very small percent (probably less than 1%) who would A) still have to have your cookie, B) actually return via a type-in, and C) He would have to return before the cookie expired.

Even with a micro niche site the odds are not in your favor. You have to line up three things in order to get that sale. Not an easy task. Possible? Of course, but odds are against you on this I believe. It's probably not worth pulling links over if you're already making money with them.

Other things to consider: Maybe they rotate the biller for their internal traffic. Maybe they overwrite your cookie anyway should you have everything line up for a type-in sale. Maybe the percent is so small and the odds are so slim, that it's not worth worrying about.

I used to own a paysite before the processor went belly up long ago. I know it's a lot more than 1%. Remember it also applies to the Google situation you mentioned earlier.

I've also noticed the difference as an affiliate with programs. It probably happens a lot but affiliates write it off as being something else.

It's *definitely* something I advise affiliates take into consideration when choosing sponsors.

DWB · 09-09-2010, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

I used to own a paysite before the processor went belly up long ago. I know it's a lot more than 1%.

Key words are USED TO, LONG AGO, and PROCESSOR WENT BELLY UP. It's a different game now.

Just in the past 1 - 2 years, the numbers on pay sites have changed on a MASSIVE level. Whatever numbers you got several years back don't apply anymore. If it was 10% back then, you will be lucky if it's 0.01% today.

Now also imagine if you would have not put all your eggs into that one processor basket. You may still be in business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

You act as if it is asking for more to receive credit in this case but it isn't. It's been the expectation for a decade. Most webmasters think that once their affiliate cookie is set they will get credit for type-ins. Otherwise the cookie is almost worthless. It's largely just ignorance that others don't consider it.

The cookie is for bookmarks. Even NATS programs put a code on their index page for all type in traffic. It's a code given to them from TMM to assign the type-in. Affiliates don't get credit on type-ins on a lot of programs, especially NATS based programs.

Whatever has happened in the last decade is OVER. Everything has changed. People are not even bookmarking like they used to.

As an affiliate, I see where you are coming from (though I never expect type-in sales as an affiliate), but these days I don't think it's enough of an amount to drop a program over. Whatever numbers you had a long time ago are nowhere even close to the same today. I'm sure any site owner will back me up on that one. I had sites 10 years ago too and I'd suck dicks for those kinds of numbers again, but it ain't gonna happen. From bookmarks to sales to rebills to traffic in general... it's a different game.

signupdamnit · 09-09-2010, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Key words are USED TO, LONG AGO, and PROCESSOR WENT BELLY UP. It's a different game now.

Just in the past 1 - 2 years, the numbers on pay sites have changed on a MASSIVE level. Whatever numbers you got several years back don't apply anymore. If it was 10% back then, you will be lucky if it's 0.01% today.

Now also imagine if you would have not put all your eggs into that one processor basket. You may still be in business.

The cookie is for bookmarks. Even NATS programs put a code on their index page for all type in traffic. It's a code given to them from TMM to assign the type-in. Affiliates don't get credit on type-ins on a lot of programs, especially NATS based programs.

Whatever has happened in the last decade is OVER. Everything has changed. People are not even bookmarking like they used to.

As an affiliate, I see where you are coming from (though I never expect type-in sales as an affiliate), but these days I don't think it's enough of an amount to drop a program over. Whatever numbers you had a long time ago are nowhere even close to the same today. I'm sure any site owner will back me up on that one. I had sites 10 years ago too and I'd suck dicks for those kinds of numbers again, but it ain't gonna happen. From bookmarks to sales to rebills to traffic in general... it's a different game.

Well I sort of took a break from the industry as well (~ 2 years) so it wasn't all just the processor going bellyup.

I hear what you are saying but personally I see a difference and I will take it into account. I still expect credit for type-ins and will react negatively to not receiving them when my valid affiliate cookie is set.

Besides, if it really is only 1% why not just code in the cookie I describe to make me happy.

It's pretty simple in theory. I can even provide some sample code to do it if any sponsors are willing to implement it. If it potentially means $450 a month for me as your affiliate, hell I'll even custom install it for you if you'd like.

But I think therein lies the issue. A lot of sponsors will lose money for doing this as the affiliate gets their cut.

I get that as an affiliate I won't get credit for everything. But there's a boundary and I think this is pushing it.

DWB · 09-09-2010, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Besides, if it really is only 1% why not just code in the cookie I describe to make me happy.

It's pretty simple in theory. I can even provide some sample code to do it if any sponsors are willing to implement it. If it potentially means $450 a month for me as your affiliate, hell I'll even custom install it for you if you'd like.

But I think therein lies the issue. A lot of sponsors will lose money for doing this as the affiliate gets their cut.

I get that as an affiliate I won't get credit for everything. But there's a boundary and I think this is pushing it.

For me personally, it isn't an issue of giving you 1% or even 10% more, it is more of not putting all of my eggs in the same basket. I lost a processor before that we used about 95% of the time, it put me out of business at the time and I'm just now starting to recover from that blow. Never again. Affiliates will get one processor, with a cascade (which they get credit) to another. My internal traffic will get another 1 - 2 processors that I juggle. Nothing personal against affiliates, but I can't afford to lose big like I did before.

If someone smarter than me could write a code that would read a ccbill cookie and then redirect my ccbill affiliates to a ccbill tour should someone do a type-in, I'm all for it. Otherwise, I can't take that risk. Actually, that would be a cool thing for ccbill to offer site owners for those who wish to use it.

You do what you gotta do man. We all have to do that to get by these days.

signupdamnit · 09-09-2010, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

For me personally, it isn't an issue of giving you 1% or even 10% more, it is more of not putting all of my eggs in the same basket. I lost a processor before that we used about 95% of the time, it put me out of business at the time and I'm just now starting to recover from that blow. Never again. Affiliates will get one processor, with a cascade (which they get credit) to another. My internal traffic will get another 1 - 2 processors that I juggle. Nothing personal against affiliates, but I can't afford to lose big like I did before.

If someone smarter than me could write a code that would read a ccbill cookie and then redirect my ccbill affiliates to a ccbill tour should someone do a type-in, I'm all for it. Otherwise, I can't take that risk. Actually, that would be a cool thing for ccbill to offer site owners for those who wish to use it.

You do what you gotta do man. We all have to do that to get by these days.

I'll see what I can do about writing some code for this. I believe there are issues reading the ccbill cookie due to browser security. It would likely be easier to just set a separate cookie under your domain that is read. Your site would then look for the cookie and act appropriately.

Quick Example:

User sent from ccbill link:

1. User hits ccbill landing page.
2. Special cookie is set with expiration equal to the ccbill cookie under your domain.
3. Proceed normally to ccbill signup

Type-in:

1. Render main page as normal.
2. If join link is clicked, attempt to locate cookie and read it.
a. If no valid cookie, do not set and proceed as normal (e.g. Zombaio).
b. If valid cookie set proceed to ccbill signup form/cascade (so affiliate gets credit)

This should work rather well I'm thinking. It would just need to be written.

Note: we could make it more complex to handle multiple affiliate backends too. Such as if you had verotel, ccbill, and zombaio affiliate programs so that the affiliate always gets credit for their typeins.

Gotta go for the night!

Andreas · 09-09-2010, 05:37 PM

I would be very interested in this. Thats one of the reason i do not have 2 processors

DWB · 09-09-2010, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

I'll see what I can do about writing some code for this. I believe there are issues reading the ccbill cookie due to browser security. It would likely be easier to just set a separate cookie under your domain that is read. Your site would then look for the cookie and act appropriately.

Quick Example:

User sent from ccbill link:

1. User hits ccbill landing page.
2. Special cookie is set with expiration equal to the ccbill cookie under your domain.
3. Proceed normally to ccbill signup

Type-in:

1. Render main page as normal.
2. If join link is clicked, attempt to locate cookie and read it.
a. If no valid cookie, do not set and proceed as normal (e.g. Zombaio).
b. If valid cookie set proceed to ccbill signup form/cascade (so affiliate gets credit)

This should work rather well I'm thinking. It would just need to be written.

Note: we could make it more complex to handle multiple affiliate backends too. Such as if you had verotel, ccbill, and zombaio affiliate programs so that the affiliate always gets credit for their typeins.

If it would work, that would be a great little code to have and would solve a lot of problems, making everyone happy.

I think finding a solution like this is 100x better than having to drop affiliates or push them into being cornered with one processor.

TheDA · 09-10-2010, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCBill Paul

We certainly can.

If a sponsor is using our cascading system CCBill will payout on sales through Epoch and SegPay regardless of the processor order. However the customer must go through our cascading link in order for this to work correctly.

This is correct, CCBill sponsors can cascade to any other processor using our system and with a bit of work on the sponsors end we can even payout on those sales.

Thanks for clearing that up Paul. I wasn't aware it was set up for all processors now.

Fenris Wolf · 09-10-2010, 02:30 AM

Excellent info thank you.

MishaOLS · 11-22-2011, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

I'll see what I can do about writing some code for this. I believe there are issues reading the ccbill cookie due to browser security. It would likely be easier to just set a separate cookie under your domain that is read. Your site would then look for the cookie and act appropriately.

Quick Example:

User sent from ccbill link:

1. User hits ccbill landing page.
2. Special cookie is set with expiration equal to the ccbill cookie under your domain.
3. Proceed normally to ccbill signup

Type-in:

1. Render main page as normal.
2. If join link is clicked, attempt to locate cookie and read it.
a. If no valid cookie, do not set and proceed as normal (e.g. Zombaio).
b. If valid cookie set proceed to ccbill signup form/cascade (so affiliate gets credit)

This should work rather well I'm thinking. It would just need to be written.

Note: we could make it more complex to handle multiple affiliate backends too. Such as if you had verotel, ccbill, and zombaio affiliate programs so that the affiliate always gets credit for their typeins.

Gotta go for the night!

Guys, how is to going? Have anyone created such script already? Or do you have any other solution? I am very much interested in this issue as right now I am using only CCBill and would like to add Zombaio and let them work in a cascade. Do you know if I would have to set up an affiliate program for Zombaio as well? Probably yes, my worst fear then is that I would loose my affiliates if I wouldn't manage to let them get their share... Is there any way how to merge two different affiliates programs (like CCBill and Zombaio) into one? Does MPA3, NATS or some cheaper solution do that? I am sorry if it is a stupid question but I am totally inexperienced in this and really want to start some serious affiliate program...

I really doubt what CCBill Paul has posted here "CCBill sponsors can cascade to any other processor using our system and with a bit of work on the sponsors end we can even payout on those sales." as I have just talked to CCBill guy who told me that so far this works only for Sagpay and Epoch. I will ask about it some guys from Zombaio today. Does anyone has experience with this?

Hentaikid · 11-22-2011, 05:25 PM

typeins are a lot easier with autocomplete nowadays, I notice myself visting a site often because I put in a letter and happen to see it in the dropdown. Firefox's autocomplete doesn't even use the first letter so you can end up with something completely different than you were typing.

Fenris Wolf · 11-22-2011, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andreas

I would be very interested in this. Thats one of the reason i do not have 2 processors

I do believe it's possible to use multiple billers and and still give your affiliates credit when applicable. It would be necessary for you to offer an affiliate program using both billers. For example I will use Verotel and Zombio. In the example bellow I would override the default landing page of the Verotel affiliate link and send to my Zombio affiliate url. By using the following code the surfer would get two cookies placed, one for Verotel and one for Zombaio. In this instance it doesn't matter what biller the surfer gets processed with the affiliate will still get credit.

hXXp://links.verotel.com/cgi-bin/showsite.verotel?vercode=SITE:XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX&URL =http://tracker.zombaio.com/?XXXXXXXX.SITE

If you notice the "&URL=" appended to the Verotel url overriding the surfers destination.

I don't think it would be feasible to go beyond two processors using this method. But I do think it is a viable option.

livexxx · 11-22-2011, 07:27 PM

If it was something like CCBill, then all you'd need would be
<?
@session_start();
if ($_GET['CA'] || $_GET['PA']) {
$_SESSION['affiliate_traffic'] = 1;
}
?>

Set that for a month and then you can cover type ins as well. If you see that cookie, show the aff billers, otherwise use the SEO ones etc.

MishaOLS · 11-25-2011, 07:33 AM

Hello guys,

thank you very much for your replies and suggestions! Yet I m very inexperienced coder and this might be quite difficult for me to implement. I have however found a for me easier solution, which will at the same time solve my problem with affiliate backend and alternative payment methods. It is called Sliiing. Have you heard about that? It seems perfect to me.

09-09-2010, 09:48 AM	#4
Barefootsies Choice is an Illusion Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Land of Obama Posts: 42,635	Crafty devil.... __________________ Should You Email Your Members? Link1 \| Link2 \| Link3 Enough Said. "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

09-09-2010, 10:20 AM	#13
signupdamnit Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,697	Keep in mind we aren't talking about a rejected signups here or even a regular cascade We're talking about the affiliate program using one processor and the sponsor using another processor by default when a surfer enters their site other than through an affiliate code. Ideally if the program has a cookie length set at say 30 days and any surfer comes back by typing in the sponsor's root url (or bookmark) then that affiliate should be getting credit as intended. For that to happen in the most simple way that surfer should be sent to the affiliate processor. But if the surfer isn't being sent to say CCbill in the first place, then the affiliate isn't getting credit for that return visitor. Last edited by signupdamnit; 09-09-2010 at 10:22 AM..

09-09-2010, 03:11 PM	#21
signupdamnit Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,697	Disclaimer: I'm not accusing Xpromote of doing this on purpose or being cheaters. I'm only using them as an example. I posted about the apparent problem I noticed with them a week ago: http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=985066 and do not believe they even know of it. They are by no means the only ones doing this. 1. Sign up at http://www.xpromote.com 2. Sign up to promote "Bushy Females" 3. The link code you get will be like: Code: http://links.verotel.com/cgi-bin/showsite.verotel?vercode=29524:XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX (you must change XXXXXXXXXX to your verotel code) --- If you'd rather not sign up and want to see it in action perhaps use the link from Rabbit's Reviews: http://www.rabbitsreviews.com/bushyfemales-5923.html Then click "Join BushyFemales" from that page and proceed below. 4. Now once the surfer clicks that code it directs them to Verotel, which then directs them to: http://bushyfemales.com/tour.html 5. Click "JOIN NOW". Then Click "INSTANT ACCESS". 6. Note that it's Verotel. 7. Now go to http://bushyfemales.com (type it in manually) 8. Click "ENTER HERE". (Notice you are at http://bushyfemales.com/main.html and NOT http://bushyfemales.com/tour.html as was default with your affiliate code). Now click "JOIN NOW" and then "INSTANT ACCESS" 9. Notice you are likely at a CCBILL Join form. Ponder whether you get credit for a customer doing this. It's my understanding that you don't. In this case if they bookmarked the page "http://bushyfemales.com/tour.html" you might still get credit, but not if they say type-in "http://bushyfemales.com/". This is correct to the best of my understanding. There is a possibility that I am incorrect about something. Form your own conclusions.

09-09-2010, 03:27 PM	#23
signupdamnit Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,697	For anyone confused consider that the effect is basically the same as being an affiliate for a NATS program that overwrites affiliate cookies for all type-in traffic. Although it isn't the same problem technically, the result seems to be the same. No credit for type ins. So whether the cookie is 3 days, 30 days or 365 days, it matters little for type ins. Last edited by signupdamnit; 09-09-2010 at 03:30 PM..

09-09-2010, 05:37 PM	#34
Andreas Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Heaven Posts: 728	I would be very interested in this. Thats one of the reason i do not have 2 processors __________________ _______________

09-09-2010, 09:23 AM	#1
signupdamnit Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,697	Tip for affiliates on CCBill/Verotel/Zombaio programs. Don't forget to type in the regular url and see what the default billing choice is. If it isn't the same one that you are sending traffic to there is a good chance that the cookie which gets set is pretty much worthless. You'll often only get credit if they buy immediately after they click your link in that case. Example: 1. You send the surfer to the site using a ccbill refer link. 2. They don't buy but they bookmark the page. 3. One hour later they use the bookmark and come back to the page. 4. The default billing option is Zombaio from the bookmark. So it never sees your CCbill cookie. No credit for you. Sponsor takes 100% of the sale. You get nothing. It's getting more popular for programs to use many different billing systems and this could be another reasons why you are seeing your conversion rates get worse. Note that the above is not true in all cases. It's possible to put in a system which handles this but from my experience few programs bother. Obviously something like NATS would be a different case if properly configured. What % of surfers would you estimate do not buy immediately? Perhaps somewhere between 10% - 30% ? That could be a lot of money.

09-09-2010, 09:38 AM	#2
Dirty Dane Sick Fuck Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: www Posts: 9,491	Some sponsors use cascade, all paid by ccbill

09-09-2010, 09:54 AM	#6
TheDA Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,665	Does CCBill even cascade to Verotel or Zombaio? Anyone know?

09-09-2010, 02:21 PM	#16
chronig Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,653	Makes perfect sense that the affiliate would NOT get credited, if they are referring through ccbill affiliate link, surfer returns to site at later date, and the default biller is zombaio/etc. Worth checking into I guess...

09-09-2010, 02:33 PM	#17
garce Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 7,103	After reading this thread I checked a CCBill program that i had just added new links and content to. Literally, this was the last CCBill site I linked to before reading this post. Clicking my CCBill link (on my website) and arriving at their tour, I clicked on their join page link and got this page: www.*************.com/tour/join.php. Clicking the "Join Now By Credit Card" link, I'm directed to https://bill.ccbill.com/jpost/signup.cgi Typing the website's url without my affiliate code lands me at (after clicking the "Join Now" link): http://www.*************.com/join.php. Subtle difference. Clicking the "Join Now By Credit Card" link, I'm directed to: https://bill.ccbill.com/jpost/billingCascade.cgi I'm gonna guess that my cookie gets carried over to the different join form, but its easier for me to delete the links than it is to check my cookies. Site deleted.

09-10-2010, 02:30 AM	#37
Fenris Wolf Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,038	Excellent info thank you. __________________ Email: fenris_wolf3000 (a t ) yah00 . c 0 m

11-22-2011, 05:25 PM	#39
Hentaikid Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,249	typeins are a lot easier with autocomplete nowadays, I notice myself visting a site often because I put in a letter and happen to see it in the dropdown. Firefox's autocomplete doesn't even use the first letter so you can end up with something completely different than you were typing.

11-22-2011, 07:27 PM	#41
livexxx Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts: 1,201	If it was something like CCBill, then all you'd need would be <? @session_start(); if ($_GET['CA'] \|\| $_GET['PA']) { $_SESSION['affiliate_traffic'] = 1; } ?> Set that for a month and then you can cover type ins as well. If you see that cookie, show the aff billers, otherwise use the SEO ones etc. __________________ http://www.webcamalerts.com for auto tweets for web cam operators

11-25-2011, 07:33 AM	#42
MishaOLS Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Prague and Delhi Posts: 91	Hello guys, thank you very much for your replies and suggestions! Yet I m very inexperienced coder and this might be quite difficult for me to implement. I have however found a for me easier solution, which will at the same time solve my problem with affiliate backend and alternative payment methods. It is called Sliiing. Have you heard about that? It seems perfect to me. __________________ Check Out our Interactive Sex Diary - Real Personal and Intimate Yan and Misha are a couple of students, who travel the world, shoot sexy videos and juicy photos, seek how to change the world to be a better place and run their intimate sex blog about it. Their OpenLoveSite is perhaps the hottest site on the internet, entirely about one couple being in love. We use Sliiing as the best known backend!