AVN Show Opinions - GoFuckYourself.com

NETbilling · 08-08-2010, 12:24 PM

Hi All,

It was great seeing and spending time with so many of you.

For those who attended, what did you think of the show?

Thanks, Mitch

notime · 08-08-2010, 12:52 PM

I have never been to the Miami show. I just called Jan from ero-advertising.com and asked him since it's his first time there also.

He and Judy say it's a good show for them and he made some good deals. People tell him less people visited this show this year, but again, he has nothing to compare it to as it's his first time.

So for them it's a good half full glass...not a half empty glass.

baddog · 08-08-2010, 01:48 PM

You would probably get more replies if you let people that never attend any shows weigh in.

LAJ · 08-08-2010, 08:48 PM

The show was great for me all around.

Evil Chris · 08-08-2010, 08:54 PM

Didn't make it this time, but am looking forward to the pics and feedback.

Redrob · 08-08-2010, 10:18 PM

I had a good show.

I made some new business contacts, visited old friends, went out for great meals and partied until time to crash.

Business as usual.

NETbilling · 08-09-2010, 12:57 PM

Any More?

Wizzo · 08-09-2010, 01:03 PM

Great for business, bad for parties...

Also, because many of us are very familiar with that hotel I think a lot of people that attended didn't have to come hang out in the lobby or whatever but instead could meet with who they wanted to meet with or knew where to eat, etc and not be out in the public areas much.

Sharky · 08-09-2010, 01:11 PM

The show is dying. The new format including the retail side of the biz didn't affect things as I thought it would. I didn't see consumers that I know of. I think, to survive, the show needs to be at a much smaller venue in the future. The days of big spenders on shows are gone. I don't see how AVN made money on this one.

mikem123 · 08-09-2010, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizzo

Great for business, bad for parties...

Also, because many of us are very familiar with that hotel I think a lot of people that attended didn't have to come hang out in the lobby or whatever but instead could meet with who they wanted to meet with or knew where to eat, etc and not be out in the public areas much.

Good for Drinking tho right Wizzo. However i do agree i think if it was somewhere unfamiliar people would resort to the Lobby Bar to Network instead of outsourcing.

pornstar2fag · 08-09-2010, 01:41 PM

anyone who went would need to justify their trip to their bosses to keep getting free vacations every three months so i would assume you will not get the truth from anyone who isn't an owner, and any owner, sole proprietor will probably lie to keep looking like a bro and not look like they made a bad decision to attend.

"best show ever"
"i did so much business"

blah blah.

DatingGold · 08-09-2010, 01:53 PM

I thought the show was pretty good. There were alot of heavy hitters there even if they were hiding.

I don't think AVN show is dying, I think its just a sign of the adult industry as a whole.

Vanilla DeVille · 08-09-2010, 01:55 PM

I agree with what most peeps said. The parties weren't really there, but biz was definitely getting done!

Mr. Cool Ice · 08-09-2010, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharky

The show is dying. The new format including the retail side of the biz didn't affect things as I thought it would. I didn't see consumers that I know of. I think, to survive, the show needs to be at a much smaller venue in the future. The days of big spenders on shows are gone. I don't see how AVN made money on this one.

Spoken by a very smart and talented man in this business. If Sharky says it's dead, then you can count on it being dead.

C-Luv · 08-09-2010, 02:35 PM

I said this a couple times in different threads.. I personally got business done. But the show did seem a little died less parties and less talent. Everyone was spread out around the hotel so it seemed like less people. But I really think there was a lot of people there.

I personally was really busy since I was in Florida for 4 days and didn't have time for the pool or beach.

At the end of the day we have to remember we are there for business and not the parties. Personally that is what was missing and the silver cash bikini contest. It seemed empty because there was less talent running around.

Holly Lez! · 08-09-2010, 02:35 PM

We were the only party! but I did good biz and enjoyed it

notime · 08-09-2010, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharky

The show is dying. The new format including the retail side of the biz didn't affect things as I thought it would. I didn't see consumers that I know of. I think, to survive, the show needs to be at a much smaller venue in the future. The days of big spenders on shows are gone. I don't see how AVN made money on this one.

Shows won't die. But I would like to see a separation between consumer, online and offline.
I agree big spending worked in the past but now just may work the opposite way, when modest affiliates who are able to bring serious business are scared off maybe with these big costly parties, that make them feel insignificant and small instead of important?

Could it be time to invite loyal or potential affiliates (or any other form of business like suppliers, producers, staff, clients, etc.) for a private dinner, drink, meeting or gathering during a show and get to know them better personally and see how you can get a better relationship and earn/share/grow/discuss more together?

I don't think people travel to a show from around the globe to get a few free beers they can effort themselves and to see titties, they see on their screen anyway 24/7 any day of the week during work.

Redrob · 08-09-2010, 03:14 PM

I did miss the chartered cruise ship with the strippers, bondage show and casino....

davecummings · 08-09-2010, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redrob

I did miss the chartered cruise ship with the strippers, bondage show and casino....

Did you see stuart lawley there, or know anyone who saw him there?

Who was that attorney in the .xxx seminar audience that I understand disagreed with some things the panel opined?

TwinCities · 08-09-2010, 04:23 PM

I personally thought the show was fucking fantastic too. I did SO MUCH business there. I had 15 companies and heavy hitters tell me YES at the show. As we all know, "YES" = TONS of business! How many YESES did you get? Those YESES are SO fucking valuable that I printed them out and paid off my house and car with them this weekend.

Redrob · 08-09-2010, 04:47 PM

Nope, did not see Stuart. I believe the attorney questioning the .xxx panel was Al Gelbard.

I could be wrong.

pornstar2fag · 08-09-2010, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Luv

I said this a couple times in different threads.. I personally got business done. But the show did seem a little died less parties and less talent. Everyone was spread out around the hotel so it seemed like less people. But I really think there was a lot of people there.

I personally was really busy since I was in Florida for 4 days and didn't have time for the pool or beach.

At the end of the day we have to remember we are there for business and not the parties. Personally that is what was missing and the silver cash bikini contest. It seemed empty because there was less talent running around.

aren't you talent?

Yngwie · 08-09-2010, 05:05 PM

I think that the main problem with people saying that the "shows are dying" is all do to the lack of parties. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but shouldn't the main focus be on business? Parties can be made anywhere and getting so drunk that you can't even talk will not help, but for events like this I say it should mainly be about business. Creating new business and helping current business.

NETbilling · 08-10-2010, 02:56 AM

We did a good amount of business, had alot of meetings and had a great time in the Poker suite.

punkpred · 08-10-2010, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharky

The show is dying. The new format including the retail side of the biz didn't affect things as I thought it would. I didn't see consumers that I know of. I think, to survive, the show needs to be at a much smaller venue in the future. The days of big spenders on shows are gone. I don't see how AVN made money on this one.

That Sucks!

GetSCORECash · 08-10-2010, 03:19 AM

The parties were in the suites. You still had naked chics and you still had plenty of free liquor. Looking back At those parties In suites they were more intimate.

Smaller venue but keep the show in Miami.

Chosen · 08-10-2010, 04:04 AM

Haven't been there...

james_clickmemedia · 08-10-2010, 04:31 AM

IMHO shows are only good for getting people all in the same location and setting up meetings with them ahead of time. I don't need parties, seminars, free bar etc.
The only shows I like these days are Xbiz in the summer & Phoenix Forums in the spring.

AK · 08-10-2010, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla DeVille

I agree with what most peeps said. The parties weren't really there, but biz was definitely getting done!

The show was good because I got to see you often this show than any other shows... hahahah

on a more serious note
I thought the show was good for us. Very small compared to last year's and the year before.
But with potential deals that we got from the show, it should pay for itself.

The key is to set up meetings before hand. Less people, less party but more business minded people imho.

We will still sponsor/attend the show.

D Ghost · 08-10-2010, 06:04 PM

https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/981770-avn.html

JFK · 08-10-2010, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK

The show was good because I got to see you often this show than any other shows... hahahah

on a more serious note
I thought the show was good for us. Very small compared to last year's and the year before.
But with potential deals that we got from the show, it should pay for itself.

The key is to set up meetings before hand. Less people, less party but more business minded people imho.

We will still sponsor/attend the show.

great seeing you AK

Elli · 08-10-2010, 06:24 PM

Interesting posts in here. I didn't make it to Miami this year. I think this is the first year I've missed since 2003.

The best strategic spot used to be to sit in the lobby and eventually every single person would walk by and say hullo. Is that not the case anymore? Can you only meet people you already had on your agenda?

Nick-Mindgeek · 08-10-2010, 09:00 PM

The show was pretty decent imo...

Great to see familiar faces and very happy to have met some new ones.

I can't understand why anyone would say a show is 'useless'.

Set your goals. Meet people. Grow your business.

Anyone who can't do that...should really reconsider his business plan.

iheartbucks · 08-10-2010, 09:07 PM

I thought the show was a lot more dead this year verses last year...a lot less going on overall, I still met some great contacts and saw old friends, but if I didn't live here and had to spend as much as this show costs, I don't think it would've really need worth it, I hope it changes/turns around somehow because I do like I show in Miami

TheSenator · 08-10-2010, 09:14 PM

What is an AVN?

Anyway, I hear the biggest business being done, is done in New Jersey and its happen next week.

Im bringing cheesecake.

GotGauge · 08-10-2010, 10:13 PM

Was there even a Bikini Contest?? HA

KillerK · 08-11-2010, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NetBilling

Hi All,

It was great seeing and spending time with so many of you.

For those who attended, what did you think of the show?

Thanks, Mitch

You are a billing company, and everyone knows you suck AVn's cock.

The show is dying like paysites are to tube sites.

If someone wants content, billing or to trade traffic/crosssales, you can pick up some business i'm sure. But if a company wants affiliates they aren't attending anymore.

Paul Markham · 08-11-2010, 12:56 AM

You will find out how good the show was in 2010 in 2011. The number who rebook will show how well they did last year.

As for all those who say they did great. You'll not be finding out how good you did for at least 3 months. A meeting and a YES is not money in the bank. If you paid off your house and car with a yes, let me know how. ;)

Black Ops · 08-11-2010, 05:33 AM

Each year you can see the attendance and sponsors drop. That means the previous show was not as good as they said it was.

Top sponsors will always blow smoke up your bum to justify the money they spent to be part of it. NO ONE who is a show sponsor will tell you they lost money and will never return. Some continue for the tax write-offs. Some due it just to keep up the illusion that they are kicking ass.

GotGauge · 08-11-2010, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

You will find out how good the show was in 2010 in 2011. The number who rebook will show how well they did last year.

As for all those who say they did great. You'll not be finding out how good you did for at least 3 months. A meeting and a YES is not money in the bank. If you paid off your house and car with a yes, let me know how. ;)

Exactly!!!

Vanilla DeVille · 08-11-2010, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK

The show was good because I got to see you often this show than any other shows... hahahah

Haha - That's true, we actually did see each other more than once this show! It was really great seeing you, AK!

mpahlca · 08-11-2010, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neeko

The show was pretty decent imo...
Great to see familiar faces and very happy to have met some new ones.
I can't understand why anyone would say a show is 'useless'.
Set your goals. Meet people. Grow your business.
Anyone who can't do that...should really reconsider his business plan.

I heard you guys were half the show so of course you were busy had to watch those expense accounts ;)

NETbilling · 08-11-2010, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerK

You are a billing company, and everyone knows you suck AVn's cock.

The show is dying like paysites are to tube sites.

If someone wants content, billing or to trade traffic/crosssales, you can pick up some business i'm sure. But if a company wants affiliates they aren't attending anymore.

I don't suck cock sorry, loser. And you are wrong. We have not had an ad in AVN for some time because it was no longer worth it for us since they consolidated the magazines. We dp support the shows that we feel are worth it for us. We are much pickier now then we were several years ago.

NETbilling · 08-11-2010, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neeko

The show was pretty decent imo...

Great to see familiar faces and very happy to have met some new ones.

I can't understand why anyone would say a show is 'useless'.

Set your goals. Meet people. Grow your business.

Anyone who can't do that...should really reconsider his business plan.

100% agreed. It was great seeing you guys too.

Anthony · 08-11-2010, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSenator

What is an AVN?

Anyway, I hear the biggest business being done, is done in New Jersey and its happen next week.

Im bringing cheesecake.

I doubt most people heard about the BBQ. I've been meaning to get out there one of these years for this party.

08-08-2010, 12:24 PM	#1
NETbilling Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 8,589	AVN Show Opinions Hi All, It was great seeing and spending time with so many of you. For those who attended, what did you think of the show? Thanks, Mitch __________________ Mitch Farber CEO - NETbilling, Inc. Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456 Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

08-08-2010, 08:48 PM	#4
LAJ Gingerific Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Austin Posts: 5,567	The show was great for me all around. __________________ YNOT.com - The original industry resource email jay at ynot dot com or skype LAJConsulting

08-08-2010, 08:54 PM	#5
Evil Chris OG Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: 3rd from the Sun Posts: 13,235	Didn't make it this time, but am looking forward to the pics and feedback. __________________ It PAYZE to post on GFY chris at payze.com \| Skype chriswrp

08-09-2010, 12:57 PM	#7
NETbilling Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 8,589	Any More? __________________ Mitch Farber CEO - NETbilling, Inc. Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456 Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

08-09-2010, 01:03 PM	#8
Wizzo 2011 GFY Hall of Fame! Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Back in Texas! Posts: 15,224	Great for business, bad for parties... Also, because many of us are very familiar with that hotel I think a lot of people that attended didn't have to come hang out in the lobby or whatever but instead could meet with who they wanted to meet with or knew where to eat, etc and not be out in the public areas much. __________________ Looking for Opportunity! Last edited by Wizzo; 08-09-2010 at 01:09 PM.. Reason: to make you wonder

08-08-2010, 12:52 PM	#2
notime Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: cyberspace Posts: 8,022	I have never been to the Miami show. I just called Jan from ero-advertising.com and asked him since it's his first time there also. He and Judy say it's a good show for them and he made some good deals. People tell him less people visited this show this year, but again, he has nothing to compare it to as it's his first time. So for them it's a good half full glass...not a half empty glass.

08-08-2010, 01:48 PM	#3
baddog So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: the beach, SoCal Posts: 107,089	You would probably get more replies if you let people that never attend any shows weigh in.

08-08-2010, 10:18 PM	#6
Redrob Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In a refrigerator box by the tracks. Posts: 4,791	I had a good show. I made some new business contacts, visited old friends, went out for great meals and partied until time to crash. Business as usual.

08-09-2010, 01:11 PM	#9
Sharky Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 4,938	The show is dying. The new format including the retail side of the biz didn't affect things as I thought it would. I didn't see consumers that I know of. I think, to survive, the show needs to be at a much smaller venue in the future. The days of big spenders on shows are gone. I don't see how AVN made money on this one. __________________ Sharky

08-09-2010, 01:41 PM	#11
pornstar2fag So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 544	anyone who went would need to justify their trip to their bosses to keep getting free vacations every three months so i would assume you will not get the truth from anyone who isn't an owner, and any owner, sole proprietor will probably lie to keep looking like a bro and not look like they made a bad decision to attend. "best show ever" "i did so much business" blah blah.

08-09-2010, 01:53 PM	#12
DatingGold $6 PER EMAIL JOiN Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: California Posts: 13,185	I thought the show was pretty good. There were alot of heavy hitters there even if they were hiding. I don't think AVN show is dying, I think its just a sign of the adult industry as a whole. __________________ 9 Years of SOLID payouts and conversions! ADULT DATING - $100 PPS LIVE CAMS - $214 PPS WWW.DATINGGOLD.COM ICQ: 27442303

08-09-2010, 01:55 PM	#13
Vanilla DeVille Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona! Posts: 8,097	I agree with what most peeps said. The parties weren't really there, but biz was definitely getting done! __________________ Kisses, Vanilla DeVille SKYPE: vanilladeville DeVilleDigital Twitter

08-09-2010, 02:35 PM	#15
C-Luv Confirmed User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 3,025	I said this a couple times in different threads.. I personally got business done. But the show did seem a little died less parties and less talent. Everyone was spread out around the hotel so it seemed like less people. But I really think there was a lot of people there. I personally was really busy since I was in Florida for 4 days and didn't have time for the pool or beach. At the end of the day we have to remember we are there for business and not the parties. Personally that is what was missing and the silver cash bikini contest. It seemed empty because there was less talent running around. __________________ C-Luv [email protected] ICQ- 461280620 - Skype- C-luvi

08-09-2010, 02:35 PM	#16
Holly Lez! She's back Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,480	We were the only party! but I did good biz and enjoyed it __________________ [email protected] Skype: hollyruprecht

08-09-2010, 03:14 PM	#18
Redrob Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In a refrigerator box by the tracks. Posts: 4,791	I did miss the chartered cruise ship with the strippers, bondage show and casino....

08-09-2010, 04:23 PM	#20
TwinCities Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 492	I personally thought the show was fucking fantastic too. I did SO MUCH business there. I had 15 companies and heavy hitters tell me YES at the show. As we all know, "YES" = TONS of business! How many YESES did you get? Those YESES are SO fucking valuable that I printed them out and paid off my house and car with them this weekend.

08-09-2010, 04:47 PM	#21
Redrob Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In a refrigerator box by the tracks. Posts: 4,791	Nope, did not see Stuart. I believe the attorney questioning the .xxx panel was Al Gelbard. I could be wrong.

08-09-2010, 05:05 PM	#23
Yngwie I am an Alien from space Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 11,118	I think that the main problem with people saying that the "shows are dying" is all do to the lack of parties. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but shouldn't the main focus be on business? Parties can be made anywhere and getting so drunk that you can't even talk will not help, but for events like this I say it should mainly be about business. Creating new business and helping current business. __________________ ICQ: 16544251 - Skype: gator37 @ eastlink.ca - email: yngwie @ isys.ca Last edited by Yngwie; 08-09-2010 at 05:07 PM..

08-10-2010, 02:56 AM	#24
NETbilling Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 8,589	We did a good amount of business, had alot of meetings and had a great time in the Poker suite. __________________ Mitch Farber CEO - NETbilling, Inc. Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456 Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

08-10-2010, 03:19 AM	#26
GetSCORECash Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 5,527	The parties were in the suites. You still had naked chics and you still had plenty of free liquor. Looking back At those parties In suites they were more intimate. Smaller venue but keep the show in Miami. __________________ \| skype: getscorecash \| ICQ: 59-271-063 \| New Sites: \| SCORELAND2 \| Roku Channel SCORETV.TV \| 60PLUSMILFS \| \| Big Tit Hooker \| Tits And Tugs \| Big Boobs POV \| Karla James \| \| Naughty Foot Jobs \| Linsey's World \| Busty Arianna Sinn \| Get SCORE Cash \|

08-10-2010, 04:04 AM	#27
Chosen VIPPay.com \| AdultWebSponsors.com Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 63,151	Haven't been there...

08-10-2010, 04:31 AM	#28
james_clickmemedia Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Texas / London Posts: 2,204	IMHO shows are only good for getting people all in the same location and setting up meetings with them ahead of time. I don't need parties, seminars, free bar etc. The only shows I like these days are Xbiz in the summer & Phoenix Forums in the spring. __________________ $ CLICKMEMEDIA.COM $ CONVERTING ETHNIC TRAFFIC SINCE 1998 ~ $30+PPS BLACK-X.COM - NEW BLACK EX-GF SITE CLICKMEMEDIA.COM ~ ICQ - 8788771

08-10-2010, 06:04 PM	#30
D Ghost null Industry Role: Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,820	https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/981770-avn.html

08-10-2010, 06:24 PM	#32
Elli Reach for those stars! Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 17,991	Interesting posts in here. I didn't make it to Miami this year. I think this is the first year I've missed since 2003. The best strategic spot used to be to sit in the lobby and eventually every single person would walk by and say hullo. Is that not the case anymore? Can you only meet people you already had on your agenda? __________________ email: [email protected]

08-10-2010, 09:00 PM	#33
Nick-Mindgeek Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Montreal Posts: 700	The show was pretty decent imo... Great to see familiar faces and very happy to have met some new ones. I can't understand why anyone would say a show is 'useless'. Set your goals. Meet people. Grow your business. Anyone who can't do that...should really reconsider his business plan. __________________ Senior Director nick @ Adultforce.com

08-10-2010, 09:07 PM	#34
iheartbucks Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 637	I thought the show was a lot more dead this year verses last year...a lot less going on overall, I still met some great contacts and saw old friends, but if I didn't live here and had to spend as much as this show costs, I don't think it would've really need worth it, I hope it changes/turns around somehow because I do like I show in Miami Last edited by iheartbucks; 08-10-2010 at 09:08 PM..

08-10-2010, 09:14 PM	#35
TheSenator Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 13,337	What is an AVN? Anyway, I hear the biggest business being done, is done in New Jersey and its happen next week. Im bringing cheesecake. __________________ ISeekGirls.com since 2005

08-10-2010, 10:13 PM	#36
GotGauge Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: USA Posts: 3,072	Was there even a Bikini Contest?? HA __________________ ICQ 22264474 [email protected]

08-11-2010, 12:56 AM	#38
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	You will find out how good the show was in 2010 in 2011. The number who rebook will show how well they did last year. As for all those who say they did great. You'll not be finding out how good you did for at least 3 months. A meeting and a YES is not money in the bank. If you paid off your house and car with a yes, let me know how. ;) __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

08-11-2010, 05:33 AM	#39
Black Ops Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 292	Each year you can see the attendance and sponsors drop. That means the previous show was not as good as they said it was. Top sponsors will always blow smoke up your bum to justify the money they spent to be part of it. NO ONE who is a show sponsor will tell you they lost money and will never return. Some continue for the tax write-offs. Some due it just to keep up the illusion that they are kicking ass. __________________ If you can read this sig, you're already dead.