Doubts surface on North Korea's role in ship sinking - GoFuckYourself.com

D Ghost · 07-26-2010, 04:09 PM

Some in South Korea dispute the official version of events: that a North Korean torpedo ripped apart the Cheonan.

Quote:

Reporting from Seoul ? The way U.S. officials see it, there's little mystery behind the most notorious shipwreck in recent Korean history.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton calls the evidence "overwhelming" that the Cheonan, a South Korean warship that sank in March, was hit by a North Korean torpedo. Vice President Joe Biden has cited the South Korean-led panel investigating the sinking as a model of transparency.

But challenges to the official version of events are coming from an unlikely place: within South Korea.

Armed with dossiers of their own scientific studies and bolstered by conspiracy theories, critics dispute the findings announced May 20 by South Korean President Lee Myung-bak, which pointed a finger at Pyongyang.

They also question why Lee made the announcement nearly two months after the ship's sinking, on the very day campaigning opened for fiercely contested local elections. Many accuse the conservative leader of using the deaths of 46 sailors to stir up anti-communist sentiment and sway the vote.

The critics, mostly but not all from the opposition, say it is unlikely that the impoverished North Korean regime could have pulled off a perfectly executed hit against a superior military power, sneaking a submarine into the area and slipping away without detection. They also wonder whether the evidence of a torpedo attack was misinterpreted, or even fabricated.

"I couldn't find the slightest sign of an explosion," said Shin Sang-chul, a former shipbuilding executive-turned-investigative journalist. "The sailors drowned to death. Their bodies were clean. We didn't even find dead fish in the sea."

Shin, who was appointed to the joint investigative panel by the opposition Democratic Party, inspected the damaged ship with other experts April 30. He was removed from the panel shortly afterward, he says, because he had voiced a contrary opinion: that the Cheonan hit ground in the shallow water off the Korean peninsula and then damaged its hull trying to get off a reef.

"It was the equivalent of a simple traffic accident at sea," Shin said.

The Defense Ministry said in a statement that Shin was removed because of "limited expertise, a lack of objectivity and scientific logic," and that he was "intentionally creating public mistrust" in the investigation.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul...rpedo-20100724

whoops · 07-26-2010, 04:11 PM

While N.K are fucking crazy, it's not really suprising if this turn out to be true.

erooup · 07-26-2010, 04:18 PM

It's a false flag operation. Hillary want to belive North Korean is the devil, she wants everyone else to think it as well, and she will position every data to make it appear she is right.

Right now you have to wonder who is more out of touch with reality - Clinton or North Korean.

Luscious Media · 07-26-2010, 04:21 PM

"...the Cheonan hit ground in the shallow water off the Korean peninsula and then damaged its hull trying to get off a reef."

MrBottomTooth · 07-26-2010, 04:42 PM

I'm not exactly an experienced sailor, but how would hitting a reef cause an explosion?

sortie · 07-26-2010, 04:59 PM

I think that NK would have been proud to have sunk the ship because they would
have believed it to be warranted and would have never denied it.

The fucking ship ran aground.

WMD all over again.

This is actually one thing about Clinton that I didn't like : she is still beating the
same old drum towards NK and Iran that the Bush team was beating.

The thing is that South Korea is democratic and it is excepted and expected that
democratic governments openly seek the destruction of communist nations.
So how can SK live in peace next to NK when they openly pray for the destruction
of the NK government. Not realistic, but democratic ideologs have problems ever
believing that their policies and rhetoric are antagonistic.

The existence of communism is a reality, like it or not.
We(democratic nations) will either live with that or kill them.
There is no rhetoric whatsoever from democratic nations that we will live
with communism still in the world.

We "make the fight"; because we don't promote changes to communism,
we only promote the destruction of it.

WTF do you expect their leaders to do?

sortie · 07-26-2010, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

I'm not exactly an experienced sailor, but how would hitting a reef cause an explosion?

You're not exactly an attentive reader either :

Quote:

Originally Posted by from above

"I couldn't find the slightest sign of an explosion," said Shin Sang-chul, a former shipbuilding executive-turned-investigative journalist. "The sailors drowned to death. Their bodies were clean. We didn't even find dead fish in the sea."

MrBottomTooth · 07-26-2010, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sortie

You're not exactly an attentive reader either :

I was not referring to that article. Every other news story I have seen on the story said there was an explosion.

such as:
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...puted-waters/1

MrBottomTooth · 07-26-2010, 06:39 PM

even the ship's captain reported an explosion.

The Cheonan split in two and started sinking shortly after an explosion at the stern around 9 p.m., according to the ship?s captain, Choi Won Il, who was among 58 survivors.

Spilt in two because it hit a reef? Riiiiight.

docputer · 07-26-2010, 07:03 PM

So the North Korean torpedo fragments they found were planted?

sortie · 07-26-2010, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docputer

So the North Korean torpedo fragments they found were planted?

Got links?

I'd accept that evidence.

Dirty Dane · 07-26-2010, 07:39 PM

Do we even need such excuse to free the people of NK?

sortie · 07-26-2010, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

Do we even need such excuse to free the people of NK?

We haven't freed Palestinians with all the excuses we have so yeah, we need one.

MrBottomTooth · 07-26-2010, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sortie

Got links?

I'd accept that evidence.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news...113_66128.html

Dirty Dane · 07-26-2010, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sortie

We haven't freed Palestinians with all the excuses we have so yeah, we need one.

Two different things. But yes, the Palestinians deserves better than Hamas. Their election was not exactly democratic.

sortie · 07-26-2010, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

Two different things. But yes, the Palestinians deserves better than Hamas. Their election was not exactly democratic.

Oh, so things were great before Hamas?

I guess you got that yarmulke on real tight to be confused about who the fuck
Palestinians need to be liberated from.

L-Pink · 07-26-2010, 08:17 PM

Could it have been a mine? I'm sure they are floating around those waters.

.

bronco67 · 07-26-2010, 08:33 PM

"The critics, mostly but not all from the opposition, say it is unlikely that the impoverished North Korean regime could have pulled off a perfectly executed hit against a superior military power, sneaking a submarine into the area and slipping away without detection. They also wonder whether the evidence of a torpedo attack was misinterpreted, or even fabricated."

Isn't the country impoverished because all of the money goes into its military?

So let me guess -- this is an indirect accusation at the US.

Dirty Dane · 07-26-2010, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sortie

Oh, so things were great before Hamas?

I guess you got that yarmulke on real tight to be confused about who the fuck
Palestinians need to be liberated from.

Well, I do not want to attack Israel because the Palestinian militant leaders refuse to live nextdoor to jews and put their people into suffer instead. That's not going to solve anything. Hamas is the problem and even without jews, they would still force themselves to power.

Similar, the NK leadership abuse their authority. Even more. It's total control and anyone trying to object or escape will be shot or placed in camps. Including families and friends. It's the same as Pol Pot did and it's not acceptable.

sortie · 07-26-2010, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

Well, I do not want to attack Israel

Then please STFU then.

Thanks.

sortie · 07-26-2010, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news...113_66128.html

Can you give me a domain with less motherfucking dots in it.

Dirty Dane · 07-26-2010, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sortie

Then please STFU then.

You gotta work on your reasoning. Your logic is the same as if the man living next to you were beating his family, you wouldn't report it, unless he made some harm to you. That's irrelevant and what's going on elsewhere is also irrelevant.

DaddyHalbucks · 07-26-2010, 08:51 PM

Hillary and I don't agree on much, so this is a cause for celebration.

sortie · 07-26-2010, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

Hillary and I don't agree on much, so this is a cause for celebration.

Dude, you'd celebrate a fart if it had stars and stripes.

sortie · 07-26-2010, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news...113_66128.html

PS: That article listed a "Korean Font" as evidence.

Question :

Does this shit really have an italic :

directfiesta · 07-26-2010, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sortie

Dude, you'd celebrate a fart if it had stars and stripes.

.. and was not black ...

Doug E · 07-27-2010, 03:21 AM

I've said from day 1 it was probably bullshit. North Korea would have claimed doing it had they done it intentionally unless it was some rogue or accident bullshit but theyd probably still claim it after they realized there was no retaliatory bombing/invasion coming, as always.

One guys theory is a US nuclear sleeper sub not involved in the training exercise at the time had sunk it mistaking it for a NK threat. He has good arguments for it but it could have been any number of things and the US moved to capitalize on it. We'll probably never know, there will be so much BS spun once the mainstream media starts printing it that only the genius conspiracy theorists will know 'exactly' what happened. The people involved that actually do know won't even know what to believe at the end of it.

Other than the massive amount of civilian casualties on both sides of the DMZ (a very big other) I've got no problem seeing the NK government fall. It should have been done in 52/53. Had Macarthur had more support from the presidents office the thing would likely have been nipped in the bud and not allowed to drag out for 57-and-who-knows-how-many-more years.

My thinking is US intelligence has seen a big opportunity with the upcoming transition of power, has made contacts within the military/government there and has the chance to push the current administration to collapse and has maybe enough support for a coup or at least support to help stabilize the country soon after what ever may happen happens. There's no way with the money the US is bleeding with two inherited wars that Obama would allow these stiff sanctions right after this very possible mocked up incident. It's a huge provocation by the US gov and wouldn't be done if they didn't have good reason to believe the Kim Jong Il government is folding or will fold if they give it a little push over. A huge provocation assuming I and others are correct in believing the SK vessel was not sunk by NK. But fuck it, I'm probably wrong and this shit will drag out for another 50 years with some retard running North Korea, sipping cognac or whatever he drinks these days in his harem of slave whores while his people eat dirt and starve all the while as South Koreans rightfully live the good life in what is quickly becoming one of the most advanced countries in the world on what should be one of the most advanced peninsulas in the world.

Mr. Cool Ice · 07-27-2010, 03:27 AM

Looks like another Golf Of Tonkin to me.

False Flag all the way. There needs to be a reason for war.

MrBottomTooth · 07-27-2010, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sortie

Can you give me a domain with less motherfucking dots in it.

Can you use google? It was a well known news story. I thought maybe you'd like to see what they are saying in Korea as well, so that is why I used that link. Sorry if the korean domain extention somehow invalidates the story for you.

Sly · 07-27-2010, 06:10 AM

I'm not so sure that North Korea would have claimed it.

Have they claimed bombs? Yes, sure. Did people die during those bomb tests and missile tests? No, they did not.

North Korea needs China very much. Without China, they are fucked. If North Korea simply came out and said "hey guys, we claim that submarine attack!" China would be put in a very difficult position and would quite possibly be forced to squeeze North Korea. That would be a very, very bad situation for China.

Claiming the attack would also put North Korea at odds with its own people. Don't forget that North Koreans and South Koreans still have family and friends across the border. I don't think publicly admitting "hey guys, we killed your cousins" would go over the greatest. Of course, they could lie to their own people about it while bragging to the rest of the world... but I'm not so sure that would stay under wraps very long.

Who knows. North Korea is nuts. One of these days they will finally push too hard and their people will suffer even more because of it. I hope the high-ranking officials are enjoying their iPods today, they might not have them much longer.

PR_Glen · 07-27-2010, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

Spilt in two because it hit a reef? Riiiiight.

Titanic split in two and it just hit some ice...

False claims of attacks by the US have been documented to have happened in the not so distant past so denying the possibility is pretty ignorant...

I'm not saying it did or it didn't happen here, i'm just saying believing everything you are told by government and newspapers and never asking questions is something that would have ALL our forefathers and founders of our countries rolling in their graves...

JA$ON · 07-27-2010, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Cool Ice

Looks like another Golf Of Tonkin to me.

_Richard_ · 07-27-2010, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

I'm not exactly an experienced sailor, but how would hitting a reef cause an explosion?

it could

07-26-2010, 04:21 PM	#4
Luscious Media Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Foxwoods Posts: 785	"...the Cheonan hit ground in the shallow water off the Korean peninsula and then damaged its hull trying to get off a reef." __________________ Luscious Media ICQ: 293-550-859 CFNM Cash

07-26-2010, 04:59 PM	#6
sortie Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 7,771	I think that NK would have been proud to have sunk the ship because they would have believed it to be warranted and would have never denied it. The fucking ship ran aground. WMD all over again. This is actually one thing about Clinton that I didn't like : she is still beating the same old drum towards NK and Iran that the Bush team was beating. The thing is that South Korea is democratic and it is excepted and expected that democratic governments openly seek the destruction of communist nations. So how can SK live in peace next to NK when they openly pray for the destruction of the NK government. Not realistic, but democratic ideologs have problems ever believing that their policies and rhetoric are antagonistic. The existence of communism is a reality, like it or not. We(democratic nations) will either live with that or kill them. There is no rhetoric whatsoever from democratic nations that we will live with communism still in the world. We "make the fight"; because we don't promote changes to communism, we only promote the destruction of it. WTF do you expect their leaders to do? __________________

07-26-2010, 08:33 PM	#18
bronco67 Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 29,032	"The critics, mostly but not all from the opposition, say it is unlikely that the impoverished North Korean regime could have pulled off a perfectly executed hit against a superior military power, sneaking a submarine into the area and slipping away without detection. They also wonder whether the evidence of a torpedo attack was misinterpreted, or even fabricated." Isn't the country impoverished because all of the money goes into its military? So let me guess -- this is an indirect accusation at the US. __________________

07-26-2010, 08:51 PM	#23
DaddyHalbucks A freakin' legend! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada USA Posts: 18,975	Hillary and I don't agree on much, so this is a cause for celebration. __________________ Boner Money

07-27-2010, 03:27 AM	#28
Mr. Cool Ice Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,289	Looks like another Golf Of Tonkin to me. False Flag all the way. There needs to be a reason for war. __________________ One Love NUR COOL UND GEIL

07-26-2010, 04:11 PM	#2
whoops Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 22	While N.K are fucking crazy, it's not really suprising if this turn out to be true.

07-26-2010, 04:18 PM	#3
erooup Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 512	It's a false flag operation. Hillary want to belive North Korean is the devil, she wants everyone else to think it as well, and she will position every data to make it appear she is right. Right now you have to wonder who is more out of touch with reality - Clinton or North Korean.

07-26-2010, 04:42 PM	#5
MrBottomTooth Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,802	I'm not exactly an experienced sailor, but how would hitting a reef cause an explosion?

07-26-2010, 06:39 PM	#9
MrBottomTooth Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,802	even the ship's captain reported an explosion. The Cheonan split in two and started sinking shortly after an explosion at the stern around 9 p.m., according to the ship?s captain, Choi Won Il, who was among 58 survivors. Spilt in two because it hit a reef? Riiiiight.

07-26-2010, 07:03 PM	#10
docputer Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,103	So the North Korean torpedo fragments they found were planted?

07-26-2010, 07:39 PM	#12
Dirty Dane Sick Fuck Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: www Posts: 9,491	Do we even need such excuse to free the people of NK?

07-26-2010, 08:17 PM	#17
L-Pink working on my tan Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida/Kentucky Posts: 39,151	Could it have been a mine? I'm sure they are floating around those waters. .

07-27-2010, 03:21 AM	#27
Doug E Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 511	I've said from day 1 it was probably bullshit. North Korea would have claimed doing it had they done it intentionally unless it was some rogue or accident bullshit but theyd probably still claim it after they realized there was no retaliatory bombing/invasion coming, as always. One guys theory is a US nuclear sleeper sub not involved in the training exercise at the time had sunk it mistaking it for a NK threat. He has good arguments for it but it could have been any number of things and the US moved to capitalize on it. We'll probably never know, there will be so much BS spun once the mainstream media starts printing it that only the genius conspiracy theorists will know 'exactly' what happened. The people involved that actually do know won't even know what to believe at the end of it. Other than the massive amount of civilian casualties on both sides of the DMZ (a very big other) I've got no problem seeing the NK government fall. It should have been done in 52/53. Had Macarthur had more support from the presidents office the thing would likely have been nipped in the bud and not allowed to drag out for 57-and-who-knows-how-many-more years. My thinking is US intelligence has seen a big opportunity with the upcoming transition of power, has made contacts within the military/government there and has the chance to push the current administration to collapse and has maybe enough support for a coup or at least support to help stabilize the country soon after what ever may happen happens. There's no way with the money the US is bleeding with two inherited wars that Obama would allow these stiff sanctions right after this very possible mocked up incident. It's a huge provocation by the US gov and wouldn't be done if they didn't have good reason to believe the Kim Jong Il government is folding or will fold if they give it a little push over. A huge provocation assuming I and others are correct in believing the SK vessel was not sunk by NK. But fuck it, I'm probably wrong and this shit will drag out for another 50 years with some retard running North Korea, sipping cognac or whatever he drinks these days in his harem of slave whores while his people eat dirt and starve all the while as South Koreans rightfully live the good life in what is quickly becoming one of the most advanced countries in the world on what should be one of the most advanced peninsulas in the world.

07-27-2010, 06:10 AM	#30
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,349	I'm not so sure that North Korea would have claimed it. Have they claimed bombs? Yes, sure. Did people die during those bomb tests and missile tests? No, they did not. North Korea needs China very much. Without China, they are fucked. If North Korea simply came out and said "hey guys, we claim that submarine attack!" China would be put in a very difficult position and would quite possibly be forced to squeeze North Korea. That would be a very, very bad situation for China. Claiming the attack would also put North Korea at odds with its own people. Don't forget that North Koreans and South Koreans still have family and friends across the border. I don't think publicly admitting "hey guys, we killed your cousins" would go over the greatest. Of course, they could lie to their own people about it while bragging to the rest of the world... but I'm not so sure that would stay under wraps very long. Who knows. North Korea is nuts. One of these days they will finally push too hard and their people will suffer even more because of it. I hope the high-ranking officials are enjoying their iPods today, they might not have them much longer. __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Windows VPS now available Great for TSS, Nifty Stats, remote work, virtual assistants, etc. Click here for more details.