goodgirl took me to one. I thought it sucked. Subway's sandwiches are better, IMO.

Damn, that is a rough drop.

I wonder how long it will take for property values to return, if they ever do. A person could make the argument that most homes were overpriced. Million dollar plus homes are in a different league, bu the average home for the average person was even over priced. I had seen where some economist were saying that right now is the first time in the history of this country that the average wage earner can't afford to buy the average home. However, they still do, they just go further into debt to do it and use credit for everything else that people used to use cash for.

Buy your house with cash.

Well, you should feel sorry for this. Because of greedy banking and people buying houses they couldn't afford, a lot of other people are suffering - which is my point. Our industry isn't crap right now because of tubes. My local fucking Wendy's didn't shut down because of tubes. People are losing their jobs and their houses, which is why they aren't buying porn.

The entire point of this thread is to remind our industry that we are in a massive recession, and every industry is hurting. Not just ours.

The same could (should) be said for everything else too. Not just houses.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I think it's the cross sales

I knew it was only a matter of time before you showed up. Yeah, no great fucking loss at all. Until your fucking hungry and ten of the closet restaurants are all fucking closed.

Tell us wise one what it was like during the great depression.

Word.

I'm not that far away from you. There aren't any stores like that around here though, just homes, yachts, and the country club. But the nearest town/city looks a lot like that. Some areas are worse than others though.

When I am hungry I do not find myself resorting to junk food.

My "average" house in Phoenix doubled in value over a three - four year period. That's fucking stupid already.

Some friends of mine - I call them "Bonnie And Clyde" - bought a house here in town in 2004 or so. They couldn't afford it then, and they couldn't afford it now. She's a fucking cashier for costco and he works construction. Yet somehow at the height of everything they took money out against their house, put a down payment on a huge pick up truck, bought a bought, a jeep, a motorcycle, iphones and ipods for everyone in their family, and exotic Mexican vacations. Then they started renting two rooms in their house out to help make ends meet. No dice. The bills were too much - insurance on the truck, the jeep, the bike, the boat, etc. Then he lost his job, and it all crashed. So, instead of doing the proper thing they just stopped paying their mortgage. In fact, they attempted to sue their mortgage company (and failed). Now they are waiting to the bank to foreclose on their house.

In the mean time, Clyde is not working, but has cashed out his 401k and bought brand new trikes. Great. Oh, on top of that, they went on a two week vacation - and used their daughter's credit card to pay for it.

These are the exact people that fueled the economy and then caused it to crash.

not everyone is hurting. only the stupid fuckers that lived beyond their means. dont buy shit you can't pay for if the world goes to shit. if more people lived that way, there wouldn't be this issue in the first place. credit card companies and banks can't give money or loans to people who don't sign for them. there would be no housing crash if people said "hey i can't afford that shit." i'm having the best financial years of my life right now. do you know why? i lived within my means and identified weak spots in the market before it crashed. survival of the fittest. i don't feel sorry for anyone.

Try the bagels in the AM. Good muffins and pastries also.

What about all the people that got proper fucked through zero fault of their own?

Vices thrive during recessions.

Historically whore, alcohol and tobacco use has always increased during recessions and depressions.

Don't worry help is coming. Obama's budget proposal again is to cut out the mortgage tax deduction. Change is what you'll be counting.

Do you have a mortgage?
Why are you staying in the house?

That is absolutely terrible advice. Get a mortgage but get one you can afford.

Take advantage of the low interest rates to buy a home and then invest your money in something with a higher return. Plus use the mortgage deduction on your taxes. Anybody who pays for a house with all cash is a moron.

How would it be through zero fault of their own?

If you're talking about the ones that had a mortgage they could afford but then got laid off or had health issues etc then I agree. But if they knew they couldnt afford the mortgage when they signed the papers or could only afford it if the boom times continued then the blame has to at least partially side with the borrowers.

On a diff subject: What part of Maui did you live? My wife and I love it over there and have considered buying a place. Just curious on your thoughts.

nice theory but 90% of the population would not be home owners

Yeah man, the consequences for debt will never be the same.

I drove by lincoln when i came around sac...I wouldn't live there....why would anyone..i prefer elk grove..roseville..

You're forgetting whole bunches of groups of people. People that lost jobs, people that lost value because their neighborhoods became desolate, people that got fucked by wall street and swindled by Madoff's, people who lost retirement savings.... whole banks went down. Big ones. Mortgage companies went belly-up by the hour. Do you remember any of this? It was brutal. The carnage on Maui was horrific. Pre-collapse there were 1700+ realtors on Maui. That herd got thinned out quickly.

Pinning all this on the few people that gamed the system or whatever is an easy cop-out. The factors that led us to today are more complex than that.


We lived on South Maui in Wailea. It's gorgeous, but it's also ultra super-fuckin-duper expensive. The entry used to be $1 million, not sure what it is today, but you can find whatever you want between Wailea and Makena all the way up to $50 million dollar homes. Only thing that matters is how much you want to spend. Most communites inside Wailea have their own HOAs specific to that particular gated community, but then all are under the WCA HOA as well. So be prepared to live under an iron HOA fist. (I mean it.)

Kihei town on South Maui is cool. It's a happenin' little beach town. I miss Kihei. You can get a place much cheaper in Kihei, in all different styles, without HOAs.... but it's not Wailea. Kihei doesn't have private security patrols or gates.

Maui is expensive all around as well. Consider this: Every single thing they have on that island, with the exception of pineapples & coconuts, comes in on a ship. Everything. Ships cost money. Ships burn oil. Dock workers are susceptible to strikes. If the California dock workers strike, Hawaii runs out of stuff. The first thing to go is toilet paper, so don't stop, head straight to Costco and grab as much as you can.

That's just it. Because of the recession people are loosing their jobs. It's a downward spiral.

"Bob" invests all of his money into opening up a Wendy's restaurant in a town that saw a 200% population increase in the past six years. Easy money to be made there because everyone except for Baddog has a fast food burger every now and then. Two years later the housing market crashes, no one is buying his burgers, and restaurants are closing faster than porn programs. Suddenly he's out of business.

But that's just the beginning.

He had a modest house with a small mortgage payment, but he lost everything he invested into the business, and on top of that he's unemployed. No one is interested in hiring a failed business man, not to mention he is competing with everyone else in the job market. Through no fault of his own, he's out of work and now loosing his house.

What about "Kenny" the guy who flipped the burgers at Wendy's? He barely made minimum wage, but now he's out of a job. For every restaurant in town that closed, twenty people joined unemployment and he's trying to compete against them for their jobs. More people looking for jobs and less jobs to be had.

In the mean time, both Bob and Kenny have less disposable income to buy fast food burgers from Burger King or the Mexican restaurant or whatever. And because so many other people can't afford to buy burgers or whatnot, now other businesses are at risk.

And this is typical. A friend of mine named Ricky got the same. He had a job, and his wife had a job, and though they both had jobs they really couldn't afford their house. They had no payments for the first six months, and had some introductory interest rate that kept their payment low for the first two years. Second year kicked in and bam, they were fucked. They walked away from their house.

@ Atticus:

When the mortgage industry melted down, my wife worked in the mortgage industry. Her career, her company (Countrywide), her income.... all gone, just like that. Wasn't our fault. Nothing we did caused that to happen. But it certainly had an impact on us.

When NUMMI shut down in Fremont over here, all those workers.... that were probably multi-generation career workers..... done. What are they supposed to do? Are there auto manufacturing plants opening up that are going to rehire them? No. So if you've worked on a factory line for 22 years, where do you go apply for a job now? Also, not their fault.

That's why in my post I said "other than people who lost their job or had health issues..." However the excuse that the other houses in the neighborhood dropped in value isnt really valid. Yes, it makes your house drop in value but that doesnt affect whether or not you can make the mortgage payment you agreed on. You either can afford it or you cant.

I love Kihei Town. We always stay in Wailea but end up spending most of our nights at the dive bars in Kihei. Looked at a few places but anything near the beath is currently out of the price range.

When Maui Land & Pineapple shut down production of their fields, and fired everyone.... what are those people supposed to do now? If all you've ever done is work in a pineapple field, and the only pineapple employer within several thousands of miles shuts down, who do you take your resume to? How do you even begin to try find other work when you're stuck on a rock in the middle of the ocean.... on the most remote island chain on Earth.

When Molokai Ranch shut down and fired everyone.... those people got it even worse! They're stuck on Molokai! Now what? Molokai Ranch was like, 1 of the 2 employers on the island. Not their fault.

nice pics man, hope you are well

It doesn't affect mom & pop who intend to stay in their home until they go to the grave. But for those not emotionally attached to their properties, trying to make a little profit, it is a very big deal. Especially when you can't get people interested even at a half million dollar loss price. It is a very big deal.

You better hope shit turns around there Rochard, or you're going to wish the mexican neighbors running a business out of their home came back.

the whole system is designed to fail, the entire chain is commission based and assuming the value of a property will always increase. I just hope lessons will be learned this time but so far I have several indications it will be same old same old

you pretty much nailed it here :)

and since bob can't pay his mortgage, among thousands of people in the same situation, suddenly the bank gets in trouble as the bundled mortgages they sold or lend out to other financial institutions are now worthless.

Bob also cannot afford his insurance, suddenly AIG is in big trouble (stocks went from $18 to $0,35 NO KIDDING !), the US government needs to put a stunning 170 billion into AIG to keep it alive

And it goes on and on.

I see a lot of people in this thread who did not save during the boom expect those who did to foot the bill for bailing them out. "Because it was no fault of their own".

Yes it is their fault. They did not save for the rainy day.
Yes it is their fault they lived beyond their means.
Yes it is their fault they chose a debt they did not COMPLETELY plan for.
Yes it is their fault for buying on the top side of the bubble.

So do not come crying to the tax payer for your bail out. Do not come crying to those who saved, those who did not buy on the bubble, and those who prepared. Those who go crawling to the government for any help only make this country weaker and this recession deeper.

You can either afford to pay your mortgage or you cant. The value of the home now doesnt matter. Just because the homes in the neighborhood have all dropped by half doesnt change the fact that you could still afford the mortgage that you agreed to.

If you purchased the home 3 years ago with the intention of flipping it for a profit than boohoo. Doesnt give you the right to get a handout because your investment didnt turn out. What disgusts me are the "strategic defaulters". The borrowers who can still afford to make the payments but choose to walk away instead because the home has dropped in value. Then that home either becomes a short sale or gets foreclosed on, becoming an eyesore, and lowering the property values of other peoples homes, who chose to stick it out and do the right thing.

Do not hate the player hate the game.

stfu fox news moron.

You must have the biggest shit eating grin on your face right about now.

You've been trying to tell these fools about the economic destruction that was about to go down for years now, but all they wanted to do was pass out tin foil hats. Now that we are IN the GREATEST DEPRESSION (not recession), it must be bitter sweet to be vindicated.

For those of you that are now interested in the truth, and for those of you that are staring to understand how badly you've been mislead by the media and the puppets in government, please understand, THIS HAS ALL BEEN "PLANNED FOR YOU" AND IS GOING TO GET FAR worse! Be prepared for a complete economic melt down in 6-18 months. Get your money out of the markets and converted to GOLD, SILVER, FOOD, SUPPLIES, and DEFENSIVE WEAPONS. Start researching, get reading, ..learn WHAT has been planned for you, and WHO is doing this to you. The time for denial is over. ...Don't walk, RUN!

This single phrase is the cause of many many problems. The "right thing" is to treat it like a business asset or liability, and not attach some sort of warped moral code to a piece of property or a debt. Too many people are brow-beaten and pressured into continuing to make payments they cannot afford because someone gave them the mental image that unless they "honor" the note, they're some sort of scumbag. It's simply not true. But the banks would sure love for everyone to stay signed onto that program.

There are people living without electricity or running water, just so they can try to keep paying their mortgage. It's insanity.

If your asset becomes an anchor, cut it loose. :2 cents:

You love to take things people say and twist them to suit your views dont you? It's called a strategic default. Meaning the person has the means to pay the mortgage but because it is no longer a good business decision they cut it loose and stop paying. I thought I made that pretty clear. This has nothing to do with people who "live without electricity" not being able to pay. Talk about bringing emotion into the discussion.

I also have a sneaking suspicion that if you signed a contract with someone else and they just up and decided they didnt want to "honor" it and went on a vacation instead you might have an issue. If they proceeded to tell you to fuck off, you might even deem them a "scumbag".

And on a side note, since when is borrowing money from someone and telling them you'll pay it back a "warped moral code"?