Undocumented couple leave SB 1070 behind

[brassmonkey]

this country has too many loopholes i feel that congress isnt protecting its people.

A white Ford pickup with Arizona plates is driving north on U.S. 191 headed for the Utah border. Afraid of encountering police, the family inside is traveling at night. The pickup's headlights cut through a sea of darkness.

The family is in a hurry to get out of Arizona, to get away from the state's harsh new immigration law.



The pickup crosses into Utah at 11:59 p.m. Luis Sanchez breathes a sigh of relief as his wife, Marlen Ramirez, keeps driving. Both are undocumented immigrants from Mexico.

"Look," he says. "We are here. We have arrived in Utah."

They have made it safely out of Arizona, past the Maricopa County sheriff's deputy they saw as they were leaving Surprise and past the highway patrol cars they saw along Interstate 17 between Phoenix and Flagstaff.

They still have a long way to their final destination: Pennsylvania. There will be engine troubles along the way. And more police. And frayed nerves.

But the hardest part of the nearly 2,700-mile journey will be the end. Their final destination is where starting their lives over begins.

Feeling like prisoners

Luis and Marlen, both 33, lived in Arizona for more than 15 years. They are from the same small town, Xaltianguis, in southern Mexico, but they met while living at the same West Valley apartment complex.

Luis was 17 when he crossed the border illegally near Douglas. Marlen was 16 when she jumped a fence near Nogales. Both came looking for work.

Their three children are U.S. citizens because they were born in Arizona. The oldest, Luis Jr., is a quiet 13-year-old. Vanessa, 10, wears glasses and loves to talk. The baby, Christian, is 2.

Lawyers have told Luis and Marlen that they do not qualify for legal residency.

Luis has washed dishes at a restaurant on Grand Avenue, at a retirement home in Peoria and at a restaurant in Sun City West. For the past four years, he worked as a landscaper for a company that maintains office buildings in the West Valley. He earned $9.80 an hour. Marlen is a stay-at-home mom.

Luis got his jobs using fake papers. He has managed to keep working despite the recession and Arizona's employer-sanctions law, which have made it much harder for illegal immigrants to get jobs.

The couple started thinking about leaving Arizona when Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio began conducting his crime sweeps two years ago, saturating largely Latino neighborhoods with deputies, stopping vehicles for minor traffic violations and arresting illegal immigrants. The couple said the sweeps made them feel like prisoners. They used to enjoy spending Sundays at the park. But to avoid the police, they started staying home as much as possible.

The day after Gov. Jan Brewer signed Arizona's new immigration law on April 23, Luis and Marlen decided to leave.

They are not alone.

Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of families have fled Arizona, abandoning homes and apartments in already struggling neighborhoods. Many more are planning to leave. Some have returned to Mexico. Many are relocating to neighboring states, many of which may soon try to adopt laws similar to Arizona's.

Luis and Marlen picked Pennsylvania. They have relatives there who say there is plenty of work.

Arizona's new immigration law makes it a state crime to be in the country illegally. It states that an officer engaged in a lawful stop, detention or arrest shall, when practicable, ask about a person's legal status when reasonable suspicion exists that the person is in the U.S. illegally. It takes effect July 29.

Supporters of the law say it does not allow racial profiling. But Luis and Marlen are unconvinced. They think that once the law takes effect, police in Arizona will stop anyone who looks Mexican to check their papers. They fear they would be deported, their children left behind.

They built a life and a family in Arizona, so the thought of leaving brought them and their children to tears. But to them, the alternative was even worse.

"That is why we decided to leave, before something happens," Luis said.

Troubles on the road

Luis and Marlen plan to drive straight through to Pennsylvania, stopping only every so often to sleep a few hours. They want to get there as quickly as possible to avoid being caught by authorities. They also can't afford to stay at motels each night, and every day on the road is money lost because Luis isn't working.

But soon after entering Utah on June 8, there is trouble. Their neighbors, also undocumented immigrants, are following them in a 20-year-old Jeep Cherokee with 183,000 miles. The Jeep's engine is starting to overheat. The driver, Daniel Diaz, 22, pulls over in the darkness and pops the hood. The radiator hisses loudly. A cloud of steam billows out. Daniel thinks his car is overloaded with the belongings of his three passengers, Ruben Rosario, 33, Ruben's wife, Betty Cabrera, 34, and the couple's U.S.-born daughter, Alondra, who will be 2 in September.

Daniel and Ruben try lightening the load. They toss a suitcase stuffed with clothes and a cooler filled with food. Daniel even chucks the spare tire before reconsidering and putting it back.

Luis takes a hard look at the engine. Then he scoots under the Jeep to get a better look. The water pump is busted, he thinks. So the men start twisting off caps from bottles of drinking water and pouring them into the radiator. A moment passes. Then the water just leaks out.

It is past 1 a.m. The highway is empty. Luis and the others worry that if they stay here, they might draw the attention of the police.

They decide to take their chances and keep driving, broken water pump and all.

Need to travel light

Luis and Marlen prepared for the trip for weeks. They took the pickup to a mechanic and spent $450 on new tires. They held a yard sale to winnow their belongings and make some money. They boxed some belongings and mailed them ahead. Their plan was to travel as light as possible. A pickup overflowing with televisions and furniture might draw the attention of police.

But the yard sale was a bust. The first day, they made just $30. Luis and Marlen chalked it up to the new law. Many of their neighbors were in the same situation, undocumented immigrants either leaving or planning to leave. So no one was buying anything. Luis and Marlen ended up throwing away most everything they owned. Televisions, VCRs, a stereo system, bedroom furniture, mattresses, dressers, a leather sofa, kitchen table - all dumped in the trash bins at their apartment complex.

Preparations were difficult for the children, as well.

On the last day of school, Luis Jr. and Vanessa told everyone they would not be coming back. Some of their classmates cried. Others said they were leaving Arizona, too.

At home, the tears continued.

Luis and Marlen had told Vanessa that they would bring their Chihuahua, Brandy, and her puppies. On moving day, the 10-day-old puppies were still nursing. They hadn't opened their eyes.

Just before leaving, Luis and Marlen broke the news: The dogs would have to stay and would be given to another family. Vanessa turned her head. Tears ran down her face.

Journey resumes

The caravan heads north on U.S. 191, stopping finally at a Mobil in White Mesa, a tiny community of Ute Indians. It is 1:30 in the morning. The gas station is closed. Luis and the others decide there is nothing to do but sleep.

At 6 a.m., the station opens. The cashier says there is a repair shop 10 miles away in Blanding, a Mormon settlement. But the mechanic there is too backed up to work on the Jeep. He suggests a shop on the other side of town.

By 10:30 a.m., the water pump is fixed. The bill is $252.60. Daniel hands the mechanic $253 in cash, money pooled with help from Luis and Ruben.

Will the Jeep make it to Pennsylvania?

"I don't see why not," the mechanic says, tightening the last bolt. "I've seen much worse cars make it that far."

Last goodbyes

The Friday before they left, Luis picked up his last paycheck. On Saturday, he also cut three lawns, the last of the weekend side business he ran with the help of Marlen and the children. They informed their clients they would not be returning. One of the houses had a sign on the front lawn, an award from a homeowner's association for having the best-kept yard. The sign made Luis and Marlen proud. So they took photos of themselves and the kids in front of it.

[brassmonkey]

2nd part


That Sunday, they had one last cookout. Luis grilled carne asada in the dirt courtyard outside their apartment while neighbors and friends grabbed sodas and Coronas from a cooler. Luis and Marlen tried to look happy. But it was times like these they were going to miss.

Of the eight apartments that share the courtyard, one was already empty. It belonged to Luis' brother and Marlen's sister, who are married to each other, and their two children. They moved to Pennsylvania two months ago. Soon, three more apartments would be empty. One belonging to Luis and Marlen, one belonging to Ruben and Betty, and one belonging to Daniel, the owner of the Jeep.

Luis and Marlen decided to leave at 5 p.m. As the hour approached, neighbors and friends stopped by to say goodbye.

Just before they left, Luis gathered his family in the kitchen, empty except for the santitos on a little altar. They said a short prayer and crossed themselves on the forehead. Luis and Marlen handed out the Catholic saints and, one by one, the travelers filed out of the apartment in tears. Daniel wrapped his arms around his father, Gilberto, 48. The father and son stayed locked in embrace for a long time. Daniel was heading to Pennsylvania, his father back to Mexico, way south to Chiapas. They had no idea if they would ever see each other again.

Marlen placed the Santo Niño de Atocha, a little pilgrim depicting the boy Jesus, on the front seat and started the pickup. The courtyard was filled with neighbors and friends. They were all crying. Luis climbed in the passenger seat and turned on the stereo. He cranked up an upbeat Mexican corrido to lighten the mood.

'Stay calm'

The pickup and the Jeep make it through the Rocky Mountains without trouble. On Wednesday night, the families stop at a little motel 30 miles past Denver and rent rooms for $60 a night. They sleep until 3:30 a.m. and are back on the highway by 4.

The trip is going smoothly now.

But in Iowa they have a scare. Driving east on Interstate 70, a blue Ford Crown Victoria pulls alongside the Jeep. Daniel's heart is pounding. The state trooper in the unmarked car is looking over at him and talking on his radio. The patrol car zooms ahead, pulling alongside the pickup. It's obvious the trooper is running the Arizona plates. The trooper seems like he is about to turn on his lights any second. But instead he speeds away.

At the next rest area, the pickup and the Jeep get off the highway.

Daniel tells Luis how nervous he was.

"It's best to stay calm," Luis tells him.

Plenty of work

One of Luis' brothers moved to Pennsylvania eight years ago. He has his own landscaping business. Another brother works with him. Luis was told there would be plenty of work for all three.

Marlen's sister cleans houses in Pennsylvania. She told Marlen there is plenty of work for her, too.

Luis' brothers told him they are less afraid of being turned over to immigration authorities by the police in Pennsylvania. But the state may not be as welcoming as they think.

In 2006, the mayor of Hazelton, in eastern Pennsylvania, declared that he wanted to make the city the toughest place on illegal immigrants in America. That year, the city passed an ordinance aimed at barring illegal immigrants from working or renting homes. A federal judge struck down the ordinance the following year.

Then, in 2008, a group of youths beat to death a 25-year-old illegal immigrant from Mexico in the town of Shenandoah.

Now, some Pennsylvania lawmakers say they want to pass an immigration law similar to Arizona's.

No one knows how many undocumented immigrants will eventually leave Arizona. But anecdotal evidence suggests that many families are going to other parts of the United States, not returning to their own countries.

"If things are bad here, they are much worse in Mexico," said Salvador, an undocumented immigrant who has lived in Arizona for 18 years. He is the godfather of Luis' daughter, Vanessa.

"There is no work in Mexico," Salvador said. "And then you have to deal with the sicarios," he said, referring to the hit men who carry out assassinations for the drug cartels. Salvador knows Mexican families moving to Oregon, California, Texas, Chicago, New York.

Despite the lack of jobs and the violence, Luis and Marlen say they considered returning to Mexico. But their children balked.

"They cried," Marlen said. "They got mad."

The children consider the United States their country. Not Mexico, she said.

Bittersweet reunion

The caravan reaches Pennsylvania at 3:56 p.m. on Friday. The two families have traveled 2,254 miles in 68 hours through nine states and three time zones. But Pennsylvania is a huge state. They still have hours of driving. There are rolling hills and dense forests. Instead of desert brown, everything is emerald green.

Arriving in Pennsylvania is bittersweet. Luis and Marlen have been crying a lot in the car. They are excited to see their relatives. But they know there is little chance of going back to Arizona. And soon the hard part will begin. Beginning new jobs. Getting an apartment. Making new friends. Starting over. Marlen makes a vow. If she ever gets her green card, she will return to Arizona.

At 9:45 p.m., Luis pulls into a rest area. He calls his brother, who says he should keep driving. Marlen thinks that is a bad idea. For the past half hour, Luis has been dozing off behind the wheel. She wants him to sleep. Luis is so tired he can hardly think. He spreads his map on the hood of the pickup. His brother tells him they are only 40 minutes away. But Luis' GPS, a going-away gift from a friend, and the map say they are more like 90 minutes away. Against Marlen's wishes, Luis keeps going.

The last hour and a half seem like an eternity. But they finally reach the exit. They make a few turns then drive through the center of a quaint town lined with mom-and-pop stores. This is their new home.

It is now 12:25 Saturday morning. Luis makes a final left turn, entering a sprawling apartment complex with green lawns, three-story brick buildings, and a community swimming pool, a vast improvement from the complex they left in Arizona.

Everyone piles out in the parking lot. They hug each other and their relatives and cry.

Inside the apartment, Luis finds his mother, who moved to Pennsylvania two months ago. She puts her arms around Luis and hugs him for a very long time. Then she whispers in his ear: "Gracias a Dios, llegaron seguros."

Thanks to God, you made it safely.

[DEA - banned for life]

way too long of a read....cliff notes?

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by DEA

way too long of a read....cliff notes?

its about illegals fleeing Az and taking their mess to bordering states obama needs to address this shit!

[DEA - banned for life]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

its about illegals fleeing Az and taking their mess to bordering states obama needs to address this shit!

lol what should he do? build a fence up around arizona like bush did with mexico?

Deport every single un-documented illegal alien and not only will the price of basically everything go up by ALOT.. but there will be an assload of shitty jobs that americans wont want to fill....not that i want em all here but just stating the facts.

[Amputate Your Head]

Clearly they are hardened criminals that are draining our system. You know, like the same way our actual American criminals drain our system. Wait....

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by DEA

lol what should he do? build a fence up around arizona like bush did with mexico?

Deport every single un-documented illegal alien and not only will the price of basically everything go up by ALOT.. but there will be an assload of shitty jobs that americans wont want to fill....not that i want em all here but just stating the facts.

so what are you saying? turn a blind eye and continue to let illegals collect medical,welfare,income tax returns, using the school system and never really pay into it because, their working a minimum wage job. and take out way more than they will ever put in. kind of like having a blank check.

[TheDoc]

Wow, that actaully made me weap tears the consitantancy of flat black krylon spraypaint.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Clearly they are hardened criminals that are draining our system. You know, like the same way our actual American criminals drain our system. Wait....

american criminals have a choice. a criminal is a criminal hardened or not. its a class 4 felony and this guy in this article is in deep shit he admitted that he used someones i.d. what a dumb ass.

[DEA - banned for life]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

so what are you saying? turn a blind eye and continue to let illegals collect medical,welfare,income tax returns, using the school system and never really pay into it because, their working a minimum wage job. and take out way more than they will ever put in. kind of like having a blank check.

i didnt say that lol..you did all i said was watch the prices go up and dont be surprised if you cant get somone to clean the shit off the bottom of your toilet bowl once a week..i can easliy admit i dont have a solution to the problem..can you?

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Wow, that actaully made me weap tears the consitantancy of flat black krylon spraypaint.

You're actually weeping tears of sticky, toxic paint? With the fumes and all? Get the camera out man! This shit will be worth a fortune! We could get you signed on with one of the traveling freak shows... I'll be your agent... think you can do it on command? Never mind, not important.... we'll get you fitted for a cool SprayPaint Tear Man costume, loosely based on an Elvis jumpsuit... maybe a mask.... hmmm.... no, fuck the mask, we don't want to block any of the paint tears spectacle. Maybe we can get you set up next to the Yak Woman... she'd be a great biz booster..... we can offer to split the cost of new signage with her.... does it look kind of like oil? We could clean up right now doing side gigs if it looks like oil. Does it look like it could be oil? Answer me! You're gonna have to be a little more forthcoming with the answers if I'm going to be your agent any longer.

[PurrrsianPussyKat]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

They still have a long way to their final destination: Pennsylvania.

Good luck with that. Here in PA, we just beat our illegals to death!

http://unitedstatesean.blogspot.com/...henandoah.html

Then the town cops cover it up and the kids who did it get a slap on the wrist!

[Amputate Your Head]

sorry, no coffee or smokes this morning... I'm a little bit amped up.

[Brent 3dSexCash]

I am all for legal immigration; we should actively encourage good people to come to this country. We need more of that.

However, I have never understood how anyone can defend "illegal immigration"

Even on a moral level, why should someone from down South be allowed to come over here and not go through the legal process? You have people from all over the world going through the process correctly, and these people suffer when others do it illegally. Just because some guy in Vietnam is separated by an ocean he shouldn't be allowed the same chance to come here?

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by PurrrsianPussyKat

Good luck with that. Here in PA, we just beat our illegals to death!

http://unitedstatesean.blogspot.com/...henandoah.html

Then the town cops cover it up and the kids who did it get a slap on the wrist!

that's 2 cops how is that the whole state. thats a weird way of thinking. playing devil's advocate if he wasn't here illegally he would probably be alive today.

[PurrrsianPussyKat]

Didn't mean it was the whole state.. it was more a tongue in cheek post.

But the fact is, in these small towns they don't like the illegal immigrants and they make their lives difficult. There is so much animosity, teenagers beat a guy to death.

Oh and 90% of the calls into the local tv stations "talk back" section afterwards basically said what you did.. that if he was in mexico where he belonged, he wouldn't be dead.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

if he wasn't here illegally he would probably be alive today.

Doubt it. Racists that have so much hate that they actually beat a guy to death, probably aren't checking their immigration status before the beatings begin. To think that they would have said, "Oh, you have a Green Card, you're okay buddy." is a lame assumption made by many many people.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

You're actually weeping tears of sticky, toxic paint? With the fumes and all? Get the camera out man! This shit will be worth a fortune! We could get you signed on with one of the traveling freak shows... I'll be your agent... think you can do it on command? Never mind, not important.... we'll get you fitted for a cool SprayPaint Tear Man costume, loosely based on an Elvis jumpsuit... maybe a mask.... hmmm.... no, fuck the mask, we don't want to block any of the paint tears spectacle. Maybe we can get you set up next to the Yak Woman... she'd be a great biz booster..... we can offer to split the cost of new signage with her.... does it look kind of like oil? We could clean up right now doing side gigs if it looks like oil. Does it look like it could be oil? Answer me! You're gonna have to be a little more forthcoming with the answers if I'm going to be your agent any longer.

Hehe... this is without the nic and caff? Damn!



The statement I made isn't on this video, but on the full song at the end a radio dj cuts in for some calls, his comment about the song above is: "Wow, that actaully made me weap tears the consitantancy of flat black krylon spraypaint."

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Hehe... this is without the nic and caff? Damn!



The statement I made isn't on this video, but on the full song at the end a radio dj cuts in for some calls, his comment about the song above is: "Wow, that actaully made me weap tears the consitantancy of flat black krylon spraypaint."

LOL

I was just being a wise ass. There's no way we'd ever give the Yak Woman a piece of our action.

[BlackCrayon]

you must build a turtle fence!

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

you must build a turtle fence!

this isnt about the border. we need to cut off free benefits and make sure that everyone working here has a guest workers card green card or something. and if you employ an illegal they send you to prison minimum 6 months hard time. no trial.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

this isnt about the border. we need to cut off free benefits and make sure that everyone working here has a guest workers card green card or something. and if you employ an illegal they send you to prison minimum 6 months hard time. no trial.

So, what about the people that hire illegals that aren't aware of it? Do they get to do 6 months prison time too? Let's suppose you hire a maintenance company to keep up the landscaping in your yard, or a cleaning company to perform maid services in your house. The company you hire employs illegals, but you don't know about it of course, because you are just the customer. But you are the one that ultimately hired them. The money is coming from you. Do we ship you off to Federal-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison without a trial too?

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

So, what about the people that hire illegals that aren't aware of it? Do they get to do 6 months prison time too? Let's suppose you hire a maintenance company to keep up the landscaping in your yard, or a cleaning company to perform maid services in your house. The company you hire employs illegals, but you don't know about it of course, because you are just the customer. But you are the one that ultimately hired them. The money is coming from you. Do we ship you off to Federal-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison without a trial too?

man ignorance isnt an excuse but, you are a customer not an employer. you know that. if i hire a company to clean my house im not their employer. im buying a service from their company

[Quagmire]

Every burden they are carrying is from their own doing. It is hard to have sympathy for people who are breaking the law.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

man ignorance isnt an excuse but, you are a customer not an employer. you know that. if i hire a company to clean my house im not their employer. im buying a service from their company

So then, what if you suspect they are illegals but don't say anything? Doesn't that then make you a part of the crime? Should you call the Feds or get your house cleaned first?

[Loch]

Man i feel for those people, tough life!

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

So then, what if you suspect they are illegals but don't say anything? Doesn't that then make you a part of the crime? Should you call the Feds or get your house cleaned first?

im not calling the feds im calling sheriff joe under the employee sanctions law. if i did hire someone to clean my home i would be there to oversea the process. I speak spanish and english ill know believe me.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

this isnt about the border. we need to cut off free benefits and make sure that everyone working here has a guest workers card green card or something. and if you employ an illegal they send you to prison minimum 6 months hard time. no trial.

america needs illegals. i don't want to pay more than 2 bucks for a pint of strawberries.

[Hank_Heartland]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

So then, what if you suspect they are illegals but don't say anything? Doesn't that then make you a part of the crime? Should you call the Feds or get your house cleaned first?

Amp, you are going too far on this one...I know the devil is making you do it

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

america needs illegals. i don't want to pay more than 2 bucks for a pint of strawberries.

you just dont get it do you. you pay $2 for the strawberries, but then you pay their medical bills, their children going to school which they are not paying for, collecting welfare while their mate is out earning tax free income i can go on and on but fuck that.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by Hank_Heartland

Amp, you are going too far on this one...I know the devil is making you do it

I'm being serious.... I've had more than a few maid services, and more than a few landscaping services. They've all pretty much been Hispanic for the most part. So, should I call the police out of some paranoia that they might be illegals and potentially ruin their lives, and the businesses that employ them, whether or not they are actually illegal? Or do I carry on like a normal functioning adult and let them do their jobs?

[Nikki_Licks]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

you just dont get it do you. you pay $2 for the strawberries, but then you pay their medical bills, their children going to school which they are not paying for, collecting welfare while their mate is out earning tax free income i can go on and on but fuck that.

If people don't live here and see the mess caused by illegal immigrants, then they will never get it

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

you just dont get it do you. you pay $2 for the strawberries, but then you pay their medical bills, their children going to school which they are not paying for, collecting welfare while their mate is out earning tax free income i can go on and on but fuck that.

How is this any different from the legal American citizens that are doing the exact same things? Aside from a piece of paper that states they are here in the country legally, what other difference is there? There are plenty of white Americans here, not paying their medical bills, children going to school which they are not paying for, collecting welfare while their mate is out earning tax free income by working under-the-table, or selling drugs, or not reporting, or collecting unemployment, or I could go on and on and on too.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

I'm being serious.... I've had more than a few maid services, and more than a few landscaping services. They've all pretty much been Hispanic for the most part. So, should I call the police out of some paranoia that they might be illegals and potentially ruin their lives, and the businesses that employ them, whether or not they are actually illegal? Or do I carry on like a normal functioning adult and let them do their jobs?

talk to them most dont bother trying to learn the language they let their kids do the talking.

[VHNet]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

america needs illegals. i don't want to pay more than 2 bucks for a pint of strawberries.

unfortunately....that's why we have illegals -- you and me both.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

talk to them most dont bother trying to learn the language they let their kids do the talking.

Yeah... most of the ones that have worked for me either couldn't speak English at all, or very limited broken English. What is that supposed to mean other than Spanish is their first language? Spanish = Illegal now?

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

How is this any different from the legal American citizens that are doing the exact same things? Aside from a piece of paper that states they are here in the country legally, what other difference is there? There are plenty of white Americans here, not paying their medical bills, children going to school which they are not paying for, collecting welfare while their mate is out earning tax free income by working under-the-table, or selling drugs, or not reporting, or collecting unemployment, or I could go on and on and on too.

you just like to talk. their CITIZENS I dont have any idea why anyone would want illegals here. i just sent pierce an email i want to know if the persons caught here illegally and pickup a felony are denied future citizenship.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

you just like to talk. their CITIZENS I dont have any idea why anyone would want illegals here. i just sent pierce an email i want to know if the persons caught here illegally and pickup a felony are denied future citizenship.

So what if they're "citizens"... they're still a massive drain on our resources aren't they? Isn't that the primary argument for rounding up Mexicans? How's this... how about if we just take everyone that's on welfare or can't pay their medical bills, regardless of race or country of origin, and just ship them all out to somewhere else.... anywhere else. Columbia or Honduras will do.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Yeah... most of the ones that have worked for me either couldn't speak English at all, or very limited broken English. What is that supposed to mean other than Spanish is their first language? Spanish = Illegal now?

no its not my father in law doesnt speak much english just spanish. he's here legally like over 25 years. you might want to hit the library or google read up on "naturalization process".

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

no its not my father in law doesnt speak much english just spanish. he's here legally like over 25 years. you might want to hit the library or google read up on "naturalization process".

Why do I need to hit the library or google to read up on "naturalization process"? You're the guy that just told me to...

"talk to them most dont bother trying to learn the language they let their kids do the talking. "

which, without any further instruction leads me to assume that by talking to them and learning that English isn't their first language that they must be illegal? Yes? No?

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

So what if they're "citizens"... they're still a massive drain on our resources aren't they? Isn't that the primary argument for rounding up Mexicans? How's this... how about if we just take everyone that's on welfare or can't pay their medical bills, regardless of race or country of origin, and just ship them all out to somewhere else.... anywhere else. Columbia or Honduras will do.

the issue let mexico absorb its poor like the united states does for it citizens i dont give a shit where their from.

[Alky]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

So what if they're "citizens"... they're still a massive drain on our resources aren't they? Isn't that the primary argument for rounding up Mexicans? How's this... how about if we just take everyone that's on welfare or can't pay their medical bills, regardless of race or country of origin, and just ship them all out to somewhere else.... anywhere else. Columbia or Honduras will do.

Amps illegal immigrant arguments summed up... he lives in hawaii... he doesn't see it on a daily basis.

You're comparing legal citizens to ILLEGAL. How can you even begin to compare the two?

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Why do I need to hit the library or google to read up on "naturalization process"? You're the guy that just told me to... which, without any further instruction leads me to assume that by talking to them and learning that English isn't their first language that they must be illegal? Yes? No?

im not in law enforcement im a damn webmaster call your local sheriff.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

you just dont get it do you. you pay $2 for the strawberries, but then you pay their medical bills, their children going to school which they are not paying for, collecting welfare while their mate is out earning tax free income i can go on and on but fuck that.

there will always be leeches on the system no matter if they are legal or illegal. i don't know how they could get welfare if they are no citizens though.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

the issue let mexico absorb its poor like the united states does for it citizens i dont give a shit where their from.

LOL, yes the United States does SO much for its poor.

They kick them out of the places they sleep (on the street) and enact laws forbidding them to sit down anywhere in public (San Francisco) because you know, the white people will have to see them and might get upset. The US is clearly leading the field in medical care for the poor too. It's a stellar system that should be modeled 'round the globe. Go to the ER when you're dying in the gutter, and get dumped right back in the gutter when they find out you can't pay.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by Alky

Amps illegal immigrant arguments summed up... he lives in hawaii... he doesn't see it on a daily basis.

You're comparing legal citizens to ILLEGAL. How can you even begin to compare the two?

1. I don't live in Hawaii any more.
2. I saw homeless all the time on Maui. They kick them out of one area, so they have to move to another, which infuriates the police so they kick them out of there, and they have to move to another place, etc.... because the police can't seem to figure out what homeless means. They have nowhere else to go.
3. I currently live in the Bay Area again, and there are Hispanics all around me. I am the minority here.
4. The only differences between a white homeless guy and an illegal Mexican guy....
The Mexican guy wants to work and be a part of the citizenry.
The white homeless citizen dude is a 100% drain on society and doesn't want to work.
The white homeless citizen guy is cool because he has (somewhere) a record of being born here somewhere. The Mexican guy does not.

Which one is the bigger "drain on society" again?

If you hand that Mexican guy from the OP a fresh Green Card, he instantly becomes a working, productive, tax-paying citizen. Hand the homeless white citizen guy a Green Card, he will sell it on the street within 10 minutes to buy another bottle of Thunderbird.

[dav3]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

Every burden they are carrying is from their own doing. It is hard to have sympathy for people who are breaking the law.

[Amputate Your Head]

I have a friend that was once an illegal alien, from Italy. He eventually got married to a US girl and is now legit, but before that, I asked him... "What are you gonna do if you get caught?"

He said, "I'll get deported. But until then, I'm not going anywhere." And he didn't.

What does this tell us? Well, for starters, telling illegals they "shouldn't be here", or "you're taking your chances", or "you should respect the law", etc.... is utterly pointless. No one is listening to you. Especially not the illegals. They are fully aware of the consequences of getting caught, and they have no intention of leaving.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

there will always be leeches on the system no matter if they are legal or illegal. i don't know how they could get welfare if they are no citizens though.

im guessing you dont live in the south west

[DBS.US]

If they have no bread, let them eat cake