Originally Posted by Riffhard

Yeah, but nowadays a lot of it is being grown in labs with conditions that wouldn't occur naturally. That's why weed today is a lot more potent than it was in the past.

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

Yeah I know what rhetorical means but I'll answer anyway.

People always want to justify their own actions by telling everybody something they do or something they have is fantastic. It's only the same as someone who could have bought a £20 phone buying an iPhone - they never shut up about how great it is.

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

And here's another rhetorical question, if we want to get down to it

WHY WOULD YOU EVEN ADVOCATE A USE OF A DRUG?

Am I proud that I almost constantly drank every evening for a period of two years?

I'm seriously ashamed, I never did and never will be advocating that, I take it as a major failure of self control, and I don't look for any alibi, it doesn't matter if I was depressed as hell, if I went through major tragedies, there's no excuse and nothing helped till I cleaned my act.

But why in the world does every marijuana smoker feel the need to advocate its use?

Why do they have to preach the pot evangelium all the time?

Why do they feel the need to memorize hundreds of pages of text just to support the use of a drug?

Why can't they just smoke at home and not TALK about it at every possible occassion?

Just a couple rhetorical questions.

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

What's wrong with it again?

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

It fucks your memory up so you can't remember things

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

The only things i've really seen as a downside to marijuana use are people having 0 money because they have smoked it all (even twats dealing the stuff that can't seem to keep it as a business and consume their own stock) and paranoia. I do think that any mental instability isn't directly caused by it though and is just enhanced loopyness that was already there.

Originally Posted by Coup

Toxic Effects of Marijuana

Tod H. Mikuriya, M.D.



Individual Toxicity

The smoked use of cannabis is not without hazards which should be clearly recognized so as to permit appropriate action to avoid or minimize these untoward effects.

Physical Effects

The smoke of cannabis is irritating to the mouth, throat, trachea, bronchii, and lungs. The level of irritation is comparable to that of tobacco with the level of irritation dependent upon the amount of exposure, heat of the smoke and degree of impurity. Because of it's illegality it is not yet possible to scientifically document the possible connection with actual lung disease.

For similar reasons it is not possible to determine possible adverse effects upon passive exposure to marijuana smoke.

There are some people that are allergic to marijuana smoke and develop hives or asthmatic symptoms when exposed to it.

Mental Effects

Cannabis when smoked may cause confusion and disorientation in the inexperienced or sensitive user.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

How many homeless dirty street bums have you seen with a bottle of Vodka in a paper bag versus how many of the same with a bag of Grade A Maui Wowie?

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

PROS:
heightened mood
hunger
new perceptions
chill out moods
pleasant personality
less anger/hostility
sparks creativity
helps you sleep
helps you think differantly
Inspires loving feelings
males music, art, etc better
makes food taste better
heightens experiences

CONS:
short-term memory loss (what?)
laziness
lethargy
gluttony
paranoia (what?)

OVERALL SCORE:
Hit it

Considering the "cons" above - which can also be caused by other things, BTW - I'll take a puff, thanks.

BONUS EFFECT OF WEED:
It makes already judgemental in-your-business hypocritcal assholes even more obnoxious.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

You forgot a few:

Reduces pain
Helps arthritis
Reduces anxiety
Reduces stress
I have a list here that goes on for four pages listing the actual ailments and conditions it helps with. Anyone that is against this plant, it simply misinformed.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Are we still calling it a drug? It's more natural a plant than the lawn growing in your front yard. Did you know that lawns are only around 100 years old, and that they were created not just for appearances, but because they provide a natural air conditioning cooling effect on the property. Marijuana has been around forever.

Preaching? Well, mostly only when people make retarded statements like this thread, calling it "poison" when it clearly is very beneficial to many, many people, and harmful to none. So here's question for you.... why do people still have to rail against and denounce (and outlaw) a plant that helps people and has killed no one? What is to be gained?

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

... anything that alters your mind or temporarily changes your physiological profile.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

And no one "preaches" anything until someone tries to demonize and outlaw a freaking plant. That's when the "preaching" comes into play, because it's ridiculous and needs balance from rational thinking people.

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

If those will be "rational thinking people" I won't ever protest, but in 99 pct. cases it's rather "massively pot smoking people"

That's my only point, there's nothing more annoying in my book than a pot messiah selling me his success story.

Nothing against drugs in general - they are here, nothing against pot - it's here, but boy if there's one thing extremely annoying in this world it's people - and some people shouldn't smoke pot AND open their mouth.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Well now I don't understand at all.

You're not against weed, but you're against people's success stories? Why? Are they harassing you at home, trying to sell it door to door like vacuum cleaner salesmen? Are you against success stories of any kind, or just those that involve weed? What about success stories of people helped by prosthetic limbs, cancer treatments, or surgeries? Against those too?

Your opposition makes no sense to me.

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

I mean it in a sarcastic way - referring to the fact that people who abuse pot do typically spend a lot of time just advocating and agitating their pot abuse.

I have even observed this is the most common and a major symptom of smoking pot.

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

It's a drug to me, TLC, the same as alcohol, nicotine, coffeine, anything that alters your mind or temporarily changes your physiological profile.

For example you can't drive under the influence of TLC and lots of people become extremely annoying after consuming it, although I'm sure there are also those where you barely notice they've been smoking.

Same thing with any drug or my alcohol abuse, I was able to come and talk to people after consuming what would get most totally drunk and annoying and no one could tell that I'm not sober, but it doesn't make it any better - it's just advanced abuse.

It alters one's mind, obviously if it had no effect on one's mind we wouldn't have millions of manic pot preachers around, we wouldn't have repeat abusers.

I don't see people preach around to others that they should drink milk or eat bananas with the same passion as they try to support smoking marijuana, I also don't see millions of people abusing bananas on a daily basis, yet I see millions smoking marijuana daily, and the only thing they have in common is a complete and utter denial they live in.

Hell I don't even see myself preaching "healthy lifestyle", although I'm almost an "expert" in that now, yet I don't care, I don't interfere with what's important to other people or what they do. I only wish others do the same.

I'm not in disagreement and totally agree that it has medical effects too, just making a point here.

Originally Posted by raymor

arguing that "alcohol is worse" or "battery acid is worse" only makes sense to stoned people.

Originally Posted by raymor

But arguing that "alcohol is worse" or "battery acid is worse" only makes sense to stoned people.

Originally Posted by stickyfingerz

I agree fuck TLC. I have no idea what TLC can do to someone. I mean TLC... honestly why SHOULD TLC be legal? TLC is bad bad bad.....



THC though is da shiz yo!!

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

TLC =
Tender Loving Care

Think about it.....

<////////////////?~~~

Or The Learning Channel...

Again, think about it...

<////////////////>~~~

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

I think that only happens because it's still under prohibition. If it were not illegal, you'd probably hear a lot less of it. I think the main drive behind people telling stories of the benefits is to spread awareness that this plant is not the anti-christ or a communist plot to control us, and get the prohibition repealed. I know speaking for myself, if it weren't illegal, I'd smoke happily and quietly and go on living my life, and let the rest of the world decide for themselves if they want to use it or not. Just like anything else.

I think lots of pharmaceuticals have their place in this world too, but I don't wave flags for Vicodin, because it's not illegal. (yet.) The government has no business telling me what I can do with my own body. They never have. They never will.

Originally Posted by raymor

I use to be involved with the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML),
ad I'd go around saying the same things this professor used to say - "it's not as bad as alcohol",
"it's not as bad as heroine", etc. Then it occurred to me that was the same logic as saying
"shooting yourself in the hand isn't as bad as shooting yourself in the head". So, what's your
point? Just because there's something worse doesn't mean you should do it.

According to that kind of thinking, you SHOULD find someone with herpes and sleep with them.
Why? Because it's not as bad as finding someone with AIDs to sleep with.

If you want to smoke pot and zone out staring a thumb tack in the wall, OK, go ahead.
But arguing that "alcohol is worse" or "battery acid is worse" only makes sense to stoned people.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

No, it makes sense to people who argue and understand it in the right context. The idea behind it is that most people shouting that "weed is bad for you!" are hypocritical at best because they partake in many other activities themselves that are far worse than any amount of weed ever could be. Your "seeking out herpes" analogy doesn't apply. But it's a funny thing, hypocrites can never see their own hypocrisy, even when it's presented to them right in front of their eyes.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

For the people still stuck in lockstep with the "weed is bad for you!" manifesto, I ask only one thing of you:

Alcohol has been proven to be bad for you.
Cigarette Tobacco has been proven to be bad for you.
(insert mile long list of other examples here)

So prove to me that Marijuana is bad for me, AND that the negative effects outweigh the benefits (as is done with anything we ingest). And then I will give some consideration to the thought of discontinuing its use and warning people against it. Seeing as how it's been used by humans for thousands of years with no attributable deaths, you've got a big challenge ahead.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

So prove to me that Marijuana is bad for me, AND that the negative effects outweigh the benefits (as is done with anything we ingest). And then I will give some consideration to the thought of discontinuing its use and warning people against it. Seeing as how it's been used by humans for thousands of years with no attributable deaths, you've got a big challenge ahead.

Originally Posted by Coup

Toxic Effects of Marijuana

Tod H. Mikuriya, M.D.



Individual Toxicity

The smoked use of cannabis is not without hazards which should be clearly recognized so as to permit appropriate action to avoid or minimize these untoward effects.

Physical Effects

The smoke of cannabis is irritating to the mouth, throat, trachea, bronchii, and lungs. The level of irritation is comparable to that of tobacco with the level of irritation dependent upon the amount of exposure, heat of the smoke and degree of impurity. Because of it's illegality it is not yet possible to scientifically document the possible connection with actual lung disease.

For similar reasons it is not possible to determine possible adverse effects upon passive exposure to marijuana smoke.

There are some people that are allergic to marijuana smoke and develop hives or asthmatic symptoms when exposed to it.

Mental Effects

Cannabis when smoked may cause confusion and disorientation in the inexperienced or sensitive user.

Dr. Mikuriya's Credentials

For the past twenty five years Dr. Mikuriya studied the effects of marijuana professionally in capacities of drug abuse treatment program director, research psychiatrist for the federal government, visitor to endemic areas of use, general clinician treating acute psychiatric in-patients and outpatients.

Politically, he was on the board of directors of the California Marijuana Initiatives of 1972 - 74, Amorphia and an advisor to its successor, the National Organization to Reform the Marijuana Laws (NORML).

A graduate of Reed College, Mikuriya completed his medical education at Temple University Medical School, Philadelphia. He received his psychiatric specialty training at Oregon State Hospital in Salem and Mendocino State Hospital in northern California. After serving at the New Jersey Neuropsychiatric Institute at Princeton, Mikuriya was appointed first director of marijuana research at the National Institute of Mental Health, Chevy Chase, Maryland in 1967. Since then he has been in private psychiatric practice in San Francisco, Oakland and Berkeley. Mikuriya has published numerous papers on marijuana and is the editor and publisher of Marijuana Medical Papers.

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

you might have a point that plenty of pot abusers feel like "crusaders" who "fight" against establishment, and it's "hip"

Although in 99 pct. cases they in fact mainly can't keep themselves under control

But we're in total agreement - everyone has the right to fuck themselves up any way they want, and while I believe that smoking weed is a terrible waste of time, you have all the right in the world to do it

As Montesqieu or Voltaire or some other of those French philosophical pricks said "I might disagree with your opinion, but I'll always fight for your right to have it"

It's just it really gets so annoying and odd to see so many people who could live a much better life fucking themselves up with the "miracle drug" and praising "the holy herb" "harmless" "so nice" "so healthy" "so cool that I can't stay without it for a day"

I should start a new Church - like the "Church of the holy leaf" - everyone stoned, everyone happy, brother red eyes preaching today..

but DON'T YOU EVER SAY ANYTHING AGAINST THE HOLY LEAF it's a SIN and we're gonna extradict you!

Flame away

Originally Posted by emjay

Perhaps this forum will help. As you can see, it is a general addictions forum but, perhaps surprisingly, the vast majority of contributions are made by those who are or have been weed smokers. OK, so no deaths per se, more of a case of blocking out life whilst alive...

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

It should be decriminalized, it can even be legal, but all I'm asking in exchange is to ADMIT that smoking weed is a personal fail, it's a drug abuse, people need drugs, I need drugs, but it's a fail.

I admit, very frankly, that I frequently engaged (and occassionaly still engage, I'm not a tea drinker) in drinking alcohol in the circle of my closest friends, shoot shit, act wildly and vicariously

But this game is really dangerous, cause you're always balancing on the edge where the "enjoyable" and "amazing" can become a "habit" a "burden" and "annoying"

The only proof that this applies to pot as well is to walk the streets and keep one's eyes open

Originally Posted by Coup

Marijuana dulls the senses allowing the corporatist scum to oppress them all the more easier

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

Did I misspell THC?

I guess I did, feel free to post some more about it..

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

Did I misspell THC?

I guess I did, feel free to post some more about it..

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

It fucks your memory up so you can't remember things

Originally Posted by emjay

Perhaps this forum will help. As you can see, it is a general addictions forum but, perhaps surprisingly, the vast majority of contributions are made by those who are or have been weed smokers. OK, so no deaths per se, more of a case of blocking out life whilst alive...

Originally Posted by candyflip

My family and girlfriend are constantly amazed by the things I remember and the detail of which they are remembered.

Marijuana has never had this effect on me.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Not everything works for every one. It's interesting you should use words like "blocking out life whilst alive" because that's exactly what all the prescription life-long (intended) pills the doctors put me on were doing to me. MJ helped free me from that and get my life back. But again, not all things work for all people. Some people with manic depression praise Lithium as their miracle substance. Lithium doesn't work for me. Nothing is universal.

I did take a look at that forum, and it's fine if they want to discuss their horror & success stories. If someone is smoking weed all day long every day just for recreation, then yeah... maybe they have a problem with it.

Originally Posted by Coup

Toxic Effects of Marijuana

Tod H. Mikuriya, M.D.



Individual Toxicity

The smoked use of cannabis is not without hazards which should be clearly recognized so as to permit appropriate action to avoid or minimize these untoward effects.

Physical Effects

The smoke of cannabis is irritating to the mouth, throat, trachea, bronchii, and lungs. The level of irritation is comparable to that of tobacco with the level of irritation dependent upon the amount of exposure, heat of the smoke and degree of impurity. Because of it's illegality it is not yet possible to scientifically document the possible connection with actual lung disease.

For similar reasons it is not possible to determine possible adverse effects upon passive exposure to marijuana smoke.

There are some people that are allergic to marijuana smoke and develop hives or asthmatic symptoms when exposed to it.

Mental Effects

Cannabis when smoked may cause confusion and disorientation in the inexperienced or sensitive user.

Dr. Mikuriya's Credentials

For the past twenty five years Dr. Mikuriya studied the effects of marijuana professionally in capacities of drug abuse treatment program director, research psychiatrist for the federal government, visitor to endemic areas of use, general clinician treating acute psychiatric in-patients and outpatients.

Politically, he was on the board of directors of the California Marijuana Initiatives of 1972 - 74, Amorphia and an advisor to its successor, the National Organization to Reform the Marijuana Laws (NORML).

A graduate of Reed College, Mikuriya completed his medical education at Temple University Medical School, Philadelphia. He received his psychiatric specialty training at Oregon State Hospital in Salem and Mendocino State Hospital in northern California. After serving at the New Jersey Neuropsychiatric Institute at Princeton, Mikuriya was appointed first director of marijuana research at the National Institute of Mental Health, Chevy Chase, Maryland in 1967. Since then he has been in private psychiatric practice in San Francisco, Oakland and Berkeley. Mikuriya has published numerous papers on marijuana and is the editor and publisher of Marijuana Medical Papers.