Originally Posted by Loryn (Post 17160050)

I kinda think he wanted her dead too... I think if she went over there when he asked her to, to exchange cars, it would have been a murder suicide. I could care less about him... I mean I feel bad for him because he is so messed up and I feel bad for people who are messed because life can be so wonderful, but I just care about her... she is a great girl who is so giving. She gave up everything for him. She can play a fucking AMAZING piano and she stopped because he would always put down the way she played and tell her she wasn't good enough. Anyone who heard that girl play would always beg her to keep playing and he just hated that... I tell you when he was a live there were many times he and I almost went to blows but I always put it to me being a bitch haha

Originally Posted by Loryn (Post 17160074)

Thank you for your post. I am going to do everything I can to help her remove guilt. She was feeling so good about herself, and so happy to be who she was again... Last week she told me on the phone, and I could hear her choking up a bit as she said it, how much she actually missed who she was. She literally said the words, I am a great person, who has talent and people like me. (I know that reads gay but if you heard her saying it, it didn't at all) I haven't heard her EVER speak highly of herself. I always had to tell her how funny or talented she was. When she puts her mind to something she does it. She wanted to get into fitness. Within 2 years she won a Miss Fitness pageant in South Dakota. I kept telling her how hot she was and even with that win she didn't believe it and I couldn't believe him. He kept talking about the other girls in the contest. So of course me being a bitch, I kept saying "Damn Stacy you don't think you are hot, look at all these body builders (they were male) checking you out. That last guy was hot." Terry stopped talking about other girls when I said that, and then of course before the end of the night I could tell he didn't want me around anymore.

Thank you guys for your input! I am debating on reading her some of your comments, before she settles in on guilt thoughts. I think I?m just going to stay on her with him being an asshole because I am afraid if she accepts the guilt it will be 100x's harder to get rid of it, than if I just verbally beat it out of her while it's new in her mind that he is just controlling you and trying to take away the life you were starting, not get on the piano, go to the gym let?s do this girls... I also think she should sell the house and move away from there...start over...

Originally Posted by LoveSandra (Post 17160525)

sad news...

Originally Posted by Ayla_SquareTurtle (Post 17160111)

He was an abuser. Just like drug abusers, he needed his daily high. His high was making his wife feel bad and holding control over her.

Someone that crazy, losing his daily fix... I figure it was either him, or her. Looks like he made the right choice.

Originally Posted by CDSmith (Post 17160567)

Blunt, clear, concise, and to the point. Just the way I like it. Well said.


Just a few side thoughts to add...

It's natural for people to try to "understand" why someone commits suicide, yet in many cases there is no understanding why. Could I have helped? Could we have helped? Could she have done more? These are the questions people ask themselves and although common it's usually a waste of time and emotional turmoil and energy. Fact is this guy like many others suffering from that level of depression really do need to seek help themselves.

By this guy's letter it doesn't sound as though he was irrational. He states clearly that he knows full well what an asshole he was to his woman. When you realize your mind is leading you down that kind of path you can either go get help or pull the trigger, it really does come down to that. Some people check themselves into the nut farm, others take the easy more cowardly way out. Hey, if the nut farm doesn't work out at least you tried and are then free to blow that hole through the roof of your mouth, right?

With regard to money, again just a side thought really, but he states early on in the letter that he is leaving her very wealthy, then later he says he's leaving her $500+ K and about $150K from the sale of their house (after the $200K he's in debt is paid). Obviously his idea of what constitutes "very wealthy" and my idea of it are two vastly different things. At least he left her something, in lieu of the many years they spent together. It seems to me that since he took the time to think about and arrange that for her before he did the deed, it says to me that maybe he wouldn't have taken her life too had she gone over there when he asked. But then again I don't know, I don't claim to have any special insight into the workings of the suicidal mind.

I have no idea why women stay with guys like this. Guys too, for that matter. All sorts of people are with and allow themselves to be chained to someone who gets off on putting them down constantly. Living for that many years with a mental abuser baffles me beyond belief. Kudos to this girl for at least finally getting up the gumption to leave. Bonus points for her not going over to see him when he asked her to that final time. May very well have saved her life, but we'll never know.

Lastly, it really strikes me that this could have been his last and final stab, neigh, SHOT, at once again exerting some measure of control over her and others around him. I'm sure he knew that by doing something so tragic and horrific it would cause a lot of people a lot of grief and confusion. That's probably the most selfish aspect of killing oneself in this sort of situation, but with this guy it sounds as though it was a kind of life passion for him. Those that are left behind are left with all sorts of guilt, regrets, what if's, hadda-shoulda-woulda-coulda's. and a lot of mental suffering. In a sick way it's definitely a form of control.

Aaaanywayy and however, in conclusion it really does sound -- and I hate to say this about someone I've never met but I'll say it anyway -- like the world is better off without him.


Loryn my love, as always if ever you want to talk you know I'm always around. Give Lars a pat for me.

Originally Posted by KillerK (Post 17160622)

one less asshole to get in my way on the freeway

Originally Posted by Loryn (Post 17159855)

I thought that was strange too he didn't say anything to her, just the friends?

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho (Post 17160822)

Let me try to examine that - a couple of points stand out:

- the letter is directed to "friends" - this is extremely unnatural and shows intensions we can examine later in the body of the letter

- from the second line on, his is already pointing at Stacy, while trying to mention "objective reasons" like admitting he's trouble - this is just a reverse psychology trying not to make the "I blame you for my death you bitch, look how dedicated I am" too obvious

- lines such as "I have left her very wealthy" just show the complete and pathological insecurity

- lines such as "Don't be mad at her" "I've left quite a checklist" are extreme displays of sick psyche, a control freak and abuser at its best

- guns and ammo - the motive is to make the situation more dramatic and look like a "man" - a pathetic display of male idiocy

Note there's not one kind word about a person that was apparently crazy enough to spend ten years with the writer

Resume:

This whole theater is just inscenation, that has only one single motive - to put the blame for his personal lifetime fuck up to Stacy

This guy was a very sick personality that relied with his entire existence, all his inferior complexes and insecurities on one person to cope with it, but in the worst possible way

The only important thing now is to make the lady understand, that everyone is responsible for his actions, and that by doing this, certain person just showed his total and complete inability to cope with himself,

extreme cowardness - not even in the last minute of his life was he able to take responsibility for his own actions and played a victim

This man failed on all levels - no guts, no balls, no courage, no responsibility, no virtue, no dignity, no common sense, no cut the bullshit detector

some people are better left alone or dead

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell (Post 17160500)

Some people think that I'm sick, too.
I don't want or need any help. A real man has the balls to get his brain under fucking control and be decent human being. Period.

Originally Posted by Loryn (Post 17159637)

Last night a good friend of mines husband shot himself. They were together for almost 20 years. He was a chiropractor and they had moved to a small town in South Dakota, because he believed in a lot of government conspiracies. She had only been around him and worked in his office for the last 10 years. They had a lot of friends and he was a funny guy. But you could feel a lot of arrogance stemming from insecurities and because of that he was always belittling her. Sometimes to the point where you almost wanted to say something to him, but then he would settle down and say something nice or funny to change the subject and it felt like he was trying to push the people around him and/or show control or power over her or something.

Anyway his office slowed down so she decided to go out and get a side job. When she got out there everyone loved her, thought she was funny, thought she was great and had great ideas? then she would come home and he, being who he was, would behave a certain way, she realized what he was like and what he was doing to her. It really opened her eyes to how much he had put her down and how much she had lost her self esteem. She hadn't noticed it before... you know how that can be when you are use to someone and you don't know until you get away from them how they really are. After thinking about it for a while, she decided to leave him but she was scared of how he would handle it. Everyone she talked to, which was myself and couple other girlfriends, were also worried about how he would react... She hurried, packed a bag, left a Dear John note and left. They talked on the phone a few times the next day and he told her that he had been thinking about ending it too, and asked her to come by the house and exchange cars. He wanted the car she took. I told her not to go... it sounded like he was looking to fight and I don't believe he was thinking of ending things too. She made an excuse and said she couldn't get out there due to work and 2 days later he sent this email out to his friends in CA and shot himself.

When I read it I can't help but to wonder what he meant by certain things like:

Leaving her the gun he used?

Telling his friend not to be mad at her?

Saying he left her rich, when they were on hard times and were close to broke?

Also hidden money? None of his friends, or her, have heard him talk about hidden money.

It sounds to me like he is trying to make her feel bad or something. I feel bad for the guy. It breaks my heart to think about that pain. I feel really bad for her. She is going through insane thoughts, blaming herself for everything. It horrible to see the pain in her over this and it makes me so mad that he did this too her. Then I feel like I am wrong for thinking like that because he is dead. I don?t know?

I know a few of you have dealt with suicide. I have never, and I thought maybe I could get a few opinions about this letter so when I talk to her I can make help her out...I have a few assumptions myself... It is just sad all around... :(


The Letter

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX (Post 17161428)

no offense but using somsones suicide letter for a fucking thread on public forum seems to be a bit in bad taste, none of us know these people and its none of our business.

geez.

Originally Posted by sperbonzo (Post 17159919)

God Loryn, I'm sorry.


I have known several people that took their own lives, and several that attempted it. The only advice I can give you and her is not to dwell on the "why's" too much.... and yet saying that, I know how very difficult it is not to go over those questions over and over in your head.

In the end no one can every really know the total universe inside of the mind of another person; and one short letter, written in pain, is not enough to truly understand the lifetime of experiences, thoughts and feelings that eventually lead someone to make this choice. In the end, you must simply accept it.

:(

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX (Post 17161428)

no offense but using somsones suicide letter for a fucking thread on public forum seems to be a bit in bad taste, none of us know these people and its none of our business.

geez.

Originally Posted by justinsain (Post 17161668)

The way I see it is she's not " using " the suicide letter " just " to start a thread. She has a close friend with a real, big time problem and she wants to help her. She doesn't have the answers so she's reaching out for them. A very quick method is discussing it intelligently online with people that know or have had similar experiences. I think in a short time she got a lot of really good feedback in this thread.

It wasn't done in bad taste. It was done because someone cared.

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX (Post 17162369)

This thread could have easily been made WITHOUT the letter.

My opinion isnt always the most popular one but thats how I see it, this shit is in bad taste, period. The guy is dead, he obviously was depressed enough to pull the trigger, then someone goes posting his letter on public forum asking other to analye it??? COme on. I know you guys wanna fuck loryn but the truth is the truth.

Not to mention the thread is titled surrounding the letter not the events or her friend. In my opinion, that is pretty low.

Originally Posted by fatfoo (Post 17161584)

Suicide is a sin. Contemplate, but do not commit. Good luck.

- Fatfoo

Originally Posted by justinsain (Post 17161668)

The way I see it is she's not " using " the suicide letter " just " to start a thread. She has a close friend with a real, big time problem and she wants to help her. She doesn't have the answers so she's reaching out for them. A very quick method is discussing it intelligently online with people that know or have had similar experiences. I think in a short time she got a lot of really good feedback in this thread.

It wasn't done in bad taste. It was done because someone cared.

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho (Post 17160822)

Let me try to examine that - a couple of points stand out:

- the letter is directed to "friends" - this is extremely unnatural and shows intensions we can examine later in the body of the letter

- from the second line on, his is already pointing at Stacy, while trying to mention "objective reasons" like admitting he's trouble - this is just a reverse psychology trying not to make the "I blame you for my death you bitch, look how dedicated I am" too obvious

- lines such as "I have left her very wealthy" just show the complete and pathological insecurity

- lines such as "Don't be mad at her" "I've left quite a checklist" are extreme displays of sick psyche, a control freak and abuser at its best

- guns and ammo - the motive is to make the situation more dramatic and look like a "man" - a pathetic display of male idiocy

Note there's not one kind word about a person that was apparently crazy enough to spend ten years with the writer

Resume:

This whole theater is just inscenation, that has only one single motive - to put the blame for his personal lifetime fuck up to Stacy

This guy was a very sick personality that relied with his entire existence, all his inferior complexes and insecurities on one person to cope with it, but in the worst possible way

The only important thing now is to make the lady understand, that everyone is responsible for his actions, and that by doing this, certain person just showed his total and complete inability to cope with himself,

extreme cowardness - not even in the last minute of his life was he able to take responsibility for his own actions and played a victim

This man failed on all levels - no guts, no balls, no courage, no responsibility, no virtue, no dignity, no common sense, no cut the bullshit detector

some people are better left alone or dead

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell (Post 17160462)

I can't read everything that was said because my eyes aren't straight enough right now.. I've had enough alcohol to kill any regular person and I'm real sick, so if I say something irrelevant, allwo me to apologize in the advance

I mean to not post for the end of the year, but, you I've spoken with before and I think something of you, and I'd like to explain some things.

For one thing, this guy, all in all he was just a complete pussy. A real bitch of a male. Alot of us cannot stand being alive. Alot of us cannot dstand losing someone we're close to.

There are several types of a suicide.

1. Fuck it, what the hell, to hell with it..

2. Whine, cry, wahhh wahhhhh omg I have to die

3. Whine, cry, wahhh, wahhh, omg I have to die and hurt everyone around me as much as possible for what they did to me

This guy was a 3.

You know, alot of the most intelligent people in the world cannot stand being human.. I certainly can't. I've been truly loved by a woman. That was the wealthiest I've ever been in my life. Ms. Angela. I've enjoyed more blowjobs than 90% of the men I'm aware of. I've enjoyed more steak dinners than 90% of males I'm aware of. I've also had tougher times than 90% of the males I'm aware of.

Now I find that I can get onto a plane at my will and enjoy some of the most attractive and accomplished females in the states. All at no cost or expense to me. Any time I like. Still, I never have liked being a human being. I never have liked being alive. I never will.

If I have a loving wife, all of the food and blowjobs and money I can stand, I still don't want to be alive. What's kept me alive is knowing how much my loved ones need me and what it'd do to them if I checked out. If I did go out that way I'd be a number 1. But look what it'd do to everyone. So I've made being alive as livable as possible, and I plan to live as long as I can. I'm predisposed to not living a long time, but, I will fight death all I can and survive to the best of my ability.

This man sounds to me like someone who was a Christian man.. No one else will figure this out, so bear with me, but her probably believed that his death would cause his woman to also take her own life. He left the firearm there so she'd have a way to die and "join him". And it was very twisted because he was trying to cut her as deeply as he possibly could.. maybe to get that done, maybe just out of hatred ..... but he did his best to hurt her human emotions in his death, and, this is a despicable thing that ehs's done.

This woman should feel nothing more than resentment and hatred for that man.
What she will feel could and prorobabbly will be very different
But all you can do is stand with her and support her through the initial shock and again once it hits he r..,. and this could be weeks or months, later, so .. you or someone has to be there for her


I'me far too drunk to explain anything else at this point but I also wanted to say there alwas could be some truth to the hidden money thing (it's otbably a psychotic delusion) so be sure and run their names

One last thing i'll say
There is no such thing as gov***ment co*****acies these days
They do their dirt way the fuck out in the , open
No use for "conspircies" anymore
They just do their horrible acts right on the table for all to see
And no one moves to stop any of it

The only radicals are those who truly understand
I know things thatd curl the toes on your head I've had an understanding from a young age .. now days we have fucking DOCUMENTARIES about it all and people STILL have no idea
Maybe because so many crazy people jumped up and started babbling far fetched bullshit?
Who knows

any way I hope I said something coherent

:error

Originally Posted by Loryn (Post 17162573)

WOW if she starts to fall to far to the victim side of this, and it appears like none of us are going to stop her from feeling 100% at fault, I think I am going to memorize this completely and tell it to her... thank you... the more I think about it the more pissed I get... the extremes a person will go to to hurt someone else is just astonishing...

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho (Post 17162629)

That's what I'd do if I had to cope with this, best of luck Loryn

Originally Posted by Loryn (Post 17162588)

I feel really bad for her.

Originally Posted by Loryn (Post 17162588)

Removing guilt should be the main focus and she doesn't deserve to be saddled with it.

Originally Posted by Loryn (Post 17162588)

So of course me being a bitch, I kept saying "Damn Stacy you don't think you are hot, look at all these body builders (they were male) checking you out. That last guy was hot.

Originally Posted by Ayla_SquareTurtle (Post 17160111)

He was an abuser. Just like drug abusers, he needed his daily high. His high was making his wife feel bad and holding control over her.

Someone that crazy, losing his daily fix... I figure it was either him, or her. Looks like he made the right choice.

Originally Posted by andrej_NDC (Post 17160991)

NO! Everyone needs help sometimes, its no shame to talk with someone about problems. Thats what real men do. The guys who play tough and pretend they don't need anyone are mostly the biggest pussies inside and need the most help from others.

Originally Posted by Loryn (Post 17162588)

Thank you so much... you should come out more often sir... always love your post...

You're so right about the documentaries... I watch so many of those things weekly and yet so many people walk around clueless... it amazes me...

Originally Posted by MDCQ (Post 17163093)

What a load of shit. He wasn't physically beating her.

Verbal abuse occurs in all relationships.

In this pussified, politically correct bullshit culture, you open your mouth, and your wife accuses you of abuse, and uses that excuse for divorce. You make a joke, and a female employee accuses you of sexual harrassment, and sues the company for millions of dollars.

The guy made some belittling comments. That's hardly abuse. If you want to see abuse, let me shove my fist up your anus. That's abuse.

You retards have to read between the lines.

- Understand that the original post is from a biased clucking cunt. The description of "verbal abuse" can be completely subjective.

- What we do know is that the husband's business had "slowed down", which meant less money. I'm sure if his career & earning potential increased, she would not have left.

- So the woman started looking elsewhere. Her female friends tell her that her husband is now a loser, and that she can do better.

- You can read the suicide letter. He loved her with all her heart. That was a big mistake, because American women are vicious animals who love divorce court ass-rapings.


I'll put it in a simpler way..

1) He loved her with all his heart.

2) His business slowed down, and he started making less money.

3) She left him for greener pastures.

4) He was devastated, and committed suicide.

That's the real story. Happens all the time. People will read too much into the situation, with talk of insecure controlling behavior, verbal abuse, etc. But the above cuts through all the bullshit, and lays it out in real world terms.

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX (Post 17161428)

no offense but using somsones suicide letter for a fucking thread on public forum seems to be a bit in bad taste, none of us know these people and its none of our business.

geez.