Deceptive Marketing in adult and mainstream - GoFuckYourself.com

Pornkings · 12-30-2002, 03:58 PM

Welcome to the real world.. Deceptive marketing tactics
I felt since some of you are so against certain marketing practices in the adult realm It deserved its own thread

Have you ever purshased those great deals from mainstream with rebates.
example:the cell phone deal is only $99 after you send in your $100 rebate which most people don't.

AOL's free 1000 min. CDroms they send out to everyone

these are all forms of deceptive marketing tactics to get you to Purchase there products or use there services.

Examples
http://www.nctimes.net/news/012600/m.html
http://www.stretcher.com/stories/01/010625d.cfm
http://www.krqe.com/Global/story.asp?S=355290
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/Smartshoppin.html

Is it wrong or just part of Marketing

I call this thread welcome to the Real World

what are your thought on this?

Rep · 12-30-2002, 04:02 PM

I'm going to signup to PornKings!

suesheboy · 12-30-2002, 04:07 PM

Great thread.

Deception is deception..cheating is cheating.

It is always wrong!

jimmyf · 12-30-2002, 04:11 PM

I don't care if Jesus A. Christ does it..... Deceptive marketing....
** It's Wrong ** Period..

Scootermuze · 12-30-2002, 04:27 PM

If you get the $100 by sending in the rebate, then it's not deceptive.. it's simply marketing strategy.. nothing misleading or deceptive about it...

If you actually get 1000 free minutes when signing up with aol then it's marketing strategy.. mothing misleading about it..

If they offer one thing, then deliver another, then it's deceptive..

Lots of main stream businesses have their marketing strategies, but the deliver what they offer, or they'd be hung out to dry..

It seems that the adult biz is the only one that seems to think it's ok to screw their customers in one form or another.. primarily because they know that Joe Customer won't go yelling too loud out of fear of people knowing what they've been doing..

greentea · 12-30-2002, 04:30 PM

Deceptive marketing tactics thats what this industry is all about sad to say.. With the exception of a few..

Pornkings · 12-30-2002, 04:31 PM

http://www.thestandard.com/article/d...1,6810,00.html

why are adult companies having to resort to deceptive marketing tactic?

Maybe because all of the free content that is out there who knows

Is our Porn4a buck deceptive because we give them a full month of access for a $1. we clearly state it's 1 month or 30 days that rebills for a full memebership. they have a full month to cancel if they wish to. but it gives them a chance to check us out without having to dish out a full membership price right away.
If a surfer can't afford a dollar trial membership for a month they sure can't afford anything else.
Kinda like Aol's 1000 free min deals.

what do you guys consider deceptive Marketing in the adult realm
the free trials?
what about TGp's with all the free conent Luring surfers in for a tease and trying to upsell them to a full paysite.

what do you guys think is deceptive?

nocostporn · 12-30-2002, 04:33 PM

deception is different than fine print ...On all of the AOL cd's I get it says X amount of hours for free for X amount of days,thats not deceptive...How are rebates deceptive? If you're a grownup with half a brain you already know how a rebate works,if you want it you send in your little coupon and you can expect your money back in a year lol... Deception is like having terms that only a lawyer or person of knowledge of the subject can understand... Face it,people are dumb and the adult industry takes advantage of it more than anybody...Accept THAT as the real world

Pornkings · 12-30-2002, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scootermuze
If you get the $100 by sending in the rebate, then it's not deceptive.. it's simply marketing strategy.. nothing misleading or deceptive about it...

If you actually get 1000 free minutes when signing up with aol then it's marketing strategy.. mothing misleading about it..

If they offer one thing, then deliver another, then it's deceptive..

Lots of main stream businesses have their marketing strategies, but the deliver what they offer, or they'd be hung out to dry..

It seems that the adult biz is the only one that seems to think it's ok to screw their customers in one form or another.. primarily because they know that Joe Customer won't go yelling too loud out of fear of people knowing what they've been doing..

Did you read those links I posted above I'm sure I can find deceptive marketing tactics on AOL and cell phone companies as well.

I understand you can't offer someone something and not deliver what they purchased
but we are talking about deceptive marketing tactics in luring consumers to purshase the product or service then deliver what they were interested in.

FATPad · 12-30-2002, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pornkings

why are adult companies having to resort to deceptive marketing tactic?

Maybe because all of the free content that is out there who knows

Because most of the pay per signup programs sites suck ass. There is no choice but to use tricky billing practices like blaring about a 3 DAY TRIAL then rebilling if the surfer doesn't cancel in 48 hours.

The amount of free porn has nothing to do with the fact that most paysites suck balls.

greentea · 12-30-2002, 04:36 PM

A nice example would be Crescent Publishing

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2001/11/crescentstlmt.htm

Pornkings · 12-30-2002, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nocostporn
deception is different than fine print ...On all of the AOL cd's I get it says X amount of hours for free for X amount of days,thats not deceptive...How are rebates deceptive? If you're a grownup with half a brain you already know how a rebate works,if you want it you send in your little coupon and you can expect your money back in a year lol... Deception is like having terms that only a lawyer or person of knowledge of the subject can understand... Face it,people are dumb and the adult industry takes advantage of it more than anybody...Accept THAT as the real world

Show me an example of an adult company that is cheating surfers that doesn't have the fine print.

Sufers are grown up and most people understand nothing is free
so they read the fine print if they don't who's fault is it.

nocostporn · 12-30-2002, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FATPad

Because most of the pay per signup programs sites suck ass. There is no choice but to use tricky billing practices like blaring about a 3 DAY TRIAL then rebilling if the surfer doesn't cancel in 48 hours.

The amount of free porn has nothing to do with the fact that most paysites suck balls.

don't forget the check box routine,"want some more porn?! leave this box checked" BAM $50 extra charge... whats the new word for it? ah yes crossbilling

Rep · 12-30-2002, 04:39 PM

Step 5:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Congradulations! You just signup up to the best affiliate program on the net!

congratulations.

Kimmykim · 12-30-2002, 04:41 PM

Roger, why did you start this thread, the other one was handling it pretty well.

I posted on page 4 of that thread, and I'm not going to re-post it here.

There's a vast difference between deceptive marketing and a lazy consumer.

nocostporn · 12-30-2002, 04:42 PM

Roger I don't understand you on topics like these,are you defending yourself?,the industry? shady business tactics? or all 3?...It's hard to see where you're coming from

Pornkings · 12-30-2002, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FATPad

Because most of the pay per signup programs sites suck ass. There is no choice but to use tricky billing practices like blaring about a 3 DAY TRIAL then rebilling if the surfer doesn't cancel in 48 hours.

The amount of free porn has nothing to do with the fact that most paysites suck balls.

the surfer understands its a trial so whats the problem?

It's supply and demand
cut off the free air or (porn) and surfers will pay without trials

so you think sites should just have a full price membership no trials?

personally when i buy a car I like to test drive it first

greentea · 12-30-2002, 04:42 PM

Without deceptive marketing, the whole ball game would be changed and LESS money would be made by porn site owners.

Xpics another fine example

jimmyf · 12-30-2002, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nocostporn
deception is different than fine print ...On all of the AOL cd's I get it says X amount of hours for free for X amount of days,thats not deceptive...How are rebates deceptive? If you're a grownup with half a brain you already know how a rebate works,if you want it you send in your little coupon and you can expect your money back in a year lol... Deception is like having terms that only a lawyer or person of knowledge of the subject can understand... Face it,people are dumb and the adult industry takes advantage of it more than anybody...Accept THAT as the real world

Very true.. Some porn companies won't understand what they did wrong when Visa say's NO more for you. You see they have done it so long they really believe it.... nothing wrong with it.. So what does the DUMB surfer do... Charge back.., So what does Visa do... Get's pissed... So what does the pay porn site do..... go's down the street and start's all over, doing the same old same old... So what does Visa do.... fuck the porn business... we don't need'm... This is not AOL... AT&T...SBC.... or Pacbell... it's the porn business.... you know shows people fucking.... And guess what? There are one hell of a lot of people that really don't like us *** AT ALL *** and that's a fact...

Pornkings · 12-30-2002, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by greentea
Without deceptive marketing, the whole ball game would be changed and LESS money would be made by porn site owners.

Xpics another fine example

Same deal with all the mainstream companies offering there red tag sales etc.
and uping the price so you think your getting a good deal.

do you pay full price for everything or do you shop around for a good deal. either way you pay

Kimmykim · 12-30-2002, 04:46 PM

Oh jimmyf, jimmyf, believe me when I tell you the truly bad guys are more than aware of what they are doing wrong. They don't fall down in disbelief when Visa kills their merch accts, they laugh at how long it took and go find another one... *sigh*

FATPad · 12-30-2002, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pornkings

the surfer understands its a trial so whats the problem?

It's supply and demand
cut off the free air or (porn) and surfers will pay without trials

so you think sites should just have a full price membership no trials?

personally when i buy a car I like to test drive it first

Wouldn't it be funny if the car dealership told you you could test drive the car for 24 hours...

...and then you found out that if you still had the car in 16 hours you were going to be charged $30,000?

Kimmykim · 12-30-2002, 04:48 PM

Gee in this state we have what's called buyers remorse. You buy something major or something in certain categories (like people that come to your home and sell you vacuum cleaners), you have three days to get your money back, no questions asked.

One could say that's a three day trial with a cancellation option.

Pornkings · 12-30-2002, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by greentea
A nice example would be Crescent Publishing

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2001/11/crescentstlmt.htm

Good example LOL
I don't think anything like that would happen again.
at least not with companies using 3rd party billing

jimmyf · 12-30-2002, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Oh jimmyf, jimmyf, believe me when I tell you the truly bad guys are more than aware of what they are doing wrong. They don't fall down in disbelief when Visa kills their merch accts, they laugh at how long it took and go find another one... *sigh*

Yip Kimmykim I've seen you post it soooooooo many time's.... Visa will get tried one day...

Pornkings · 12-30-2002, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nocostporn

don't forget the check box routine,"want some more porn?! leave this box checked" BAM $50 extra charge... whats the new word for it? ah yes crossbilling

Its a free trial and they can cancel it before they get billed
and they are notified thru email about it.

Or if they could read they can just uncheck it or check it

can you read?
Special Offer to New Members!!!
Click here to signup for Membership to File Safe Guard software that hides your files for you. Free Popup Stopper software included! - PC Download for $59.18. This is a One Time Purchase and Does NOT Renew Automatically.

or

Special Offer To New Members!!!
Click here to signup for a 5 day No Charge Membership to Mega Porn - No Charge Five Day Trial Membership. After 5 days, Membership renews automatically at $6.95 every 1 month.
Click here to signup for a 4 day No Charge Membership to Adult Flics No Charge Four Day Trial Membership. After 4 days, Membership renews automatically at $36.19 every 1 month.

whats miss leading about this I know I can read?

greentea · 12-30-2002, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pornkings

Good example LOL
I don't think anything like that would happen again.
at least not with companies using 3rd party billing

It probably is happening, we just are not hearing about it.
they were using there own merchant account at the time.

That was one of the biggest scams if not the biggest in online porn.

FATPad · 12-30-2002, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Gee in this state we have what's called buyers remorse. You buy something major or something in certain categories (like people that come to your home and sell you vacuum cleaners), you have three days to get your money back, no questions asked.

One could say that's a three day trial with a cancellation option.

Credit card users have chargebacks. *shrugs*

I no longer feel bad for sites that have high chargeback ratios since it's very possible to run a site with low chargebacks.

Paysite owners have been doing shit things for years and blaming the crappier and crappier conversions on all sorts of things from evil consumers who chargeback to TGP's and the "TOO MUCH FREE PORN!" whining.

Not once have the paysites looked at themselves and said, "ya know...our sites are shit and with all our fine print we've done nothing but teach surfers that signing up for a site is a good way to get fucked."

*shrugs* Oh well. One day all the tricks will be gone or VISA will just dump the whole industry and the people who caused the problems will be the first ones whining about how mean VISA is.

Pornkings · 12-30-2002, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by greentea

It probably is happening, we just are not hearing about it.
they were using there own merchant account at the time.

That was one of the biggest scams if not the biggest in online porn.

I doubt it will happen again and if it were we would know about it.

nocostporn · 12-30-2002, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pornkings

Its a free trial and they can cancel it before they get billed
and they are notified thru email about it.

Or if they could read they can just uncheck it or check it

can you read?
Special Offer to New Members!!!
Click here to signup for Membership to File Safe Guard software that hides your files for you. Free Popup Stopper software included! - PC Download for $59.18. This is a One Time Purchase and Does NOT Renew Automatically.

or

Special Offer To New Members!!!
Click here to signup for a 5 day No Charge Membership to Mega Porn - No Charge Five Day Trial Membership. After 5 days, Membership renews automatically at $6.95 every 1 month.
Click here to signup for a 4 day No Charge Membership to Adult Flics No Charge Four Day Trial Membership. After 4 days, Membership renews automatically at $36.19 every 1 month.

whats miss leading about this?

again,with these threads are you defending yourself? the industry? shady practices? or all 3? ... seems like anytime somebody has something negative to say about questionable "moves", you snap back with a smartass response

Pornkings · 12-30-2002, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FATPad
Credit card users have chargebacks. *shrugs*

I no longer feel bad for sites that have high chargeback ratios since it's very possible to run a site with low chargebacks.

Paysite owners have been doing shit things for years and blaming the crappier and crappier conversions on all sorts of things from evil consumers who chargeback to TGP's and the "TOO MUCH FREE PORN!" whining.

Not once have the paysites looked at themselves and said, "ya know...our sites are shit and with all our fine print we've done nothing but teach surfers that signing up for a site is a good way to get fucked."

*shrugs* Oh well. One day all the tricks will be gone or VISA will just dump the whole industry and the people who caused the problems will be the first ones whining about how mean VISA is.

Do you work for Scores cash? just curious

Kimmykim · 12-30-2002, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmyf
Yip Kimmykim I've seen you post it soooooooo many time's.... Visa will get tried one day...

Yep, they will, and as I see it there's only one way for them to put an end to it. Well, two perhaps...

One is to can all high risk on the internet, gambling and such is just as much of an issue as adult, and it's in the same high risk, just a different SIC code.

Or make everyone use a couple of third parties, that are policed basically by Visa and stand to lose everything if they allow any nonsense. This is a pretty viable option I would say, given that audiotext went thru the same shakedown and that's how it came out...

FATPad · 12-30-2002, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pornkings

Do you work for Scores cash? just curious

Nope.

Pornkings · 12-30-2002, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nocostporn

again,with these threads are you defending yourself? the industry? shady practices? or all 3? ... seems like anytime somebody has something negative to say about questionable "moves", you snap back with a smartass response

Just trying to figure out if you guys understand what you bitch about all the time.

I don't need to defend myself or our business we do everything above board we offer $1 trial for a month nothing shady

as far as the industry goes I sure there are some shady people
but so are some surfers and most know they can get away with not paying 0 tolerence rule and no sig.

Its not a smart ass remark you should think about what you say before you post it. that's all some will see your side to things and some will agree with me. Most of the big sponsors use cross sales
and if it wasn't for them you would have no where to bitch because they advertise on these boards
No biggy it's a free forum

Pornkings · 12-30-2002, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FATPad
Wouldn't it be funny if the car dealership told you you could test drive the car for 24 hours...

...and then you found out that if you still had the car in 16 hours you were going to be charged $30,000?

I don't get it?

If someone did a trial on a site and got billed before the time allowed they can just chargeback or credit it.

what your point

I'm trying to figure out where you guys get all this false information from about all this deceptive marketing
don't you think the sponsors have more to lose if they did illegal activities
the 3rd party processors monitor the sites for deceptive marketing
or they could lose there merchant acount.

and yes I think surfers are alot more savvy and because of all the free shit sales are down. it's not the sponsors who are shaving
you can easily test them out in many ways to see if they shave.
just use your credit card

FlyingIguana · 12-30-2002, 05:50 PM

rebates piss me off. i never base my buying decisions on rebates. i consider them a bonus if i do buy the product.

Pornkings · 12-30-2002, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FlyingIguana
rebates piss me off. i never base my buying decisions on rebates. i consider them a bonus if i do buy the product.

Damn a bonus

I think I might have to try the rebate thing out on a site
charge them $50 for a membership then give them a rebate
of $49 if they send us a signiture of the purchase

I wonder how many people would send in for there rebate or just chargeback?

It would still cost them a $1 for a membership but I get $50 up front to invest before I send them a rebate check 6 months later.

And they will just consider it a bonus

I wonder if it would work what do you guys think?

VIP · 12-30-2002, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by greentea
Deceptive marketing tactics thats what this industry is all about sad to say.. With the exception of a few..

and its only a few who make it to the top of the mountain

Pornkings · 12-30-2002, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VIP

and its only a few who make it to the top of the mountain

Nice sig

What's the use of fighting when you're not willing to learn...

jimmyf · 12-30-2002, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim

Yep, they will, and as I see it there's only one way for them to put an end to it. Well, two perhaps...

One is to can all high risk on the internet, gambling and such is just as much of an issue as adult, and it's in the same high risk, just a different SIC code.

Or make everyone use a couple of third parties, that are policed basically by Visa and stand to lose everything if they allow any nonsense. This is a pretty viable option I would say, given that audiotext went thru the same shakedown and that's how it came out...

Kimmykim have you noticed.. your post have gone RAT over someones head.

2 funny

UncleJimmy · 12-30-2002, 08:11 PM

I'm a fucking existentialist

so if you believe it's deceptive then it is, if you don't then it's not

lots of grey in this world... what shade you wanna be is your choice, but again very a subjective area

WiredGuy · 12-30-2002, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pornkings
I wonder if it would work what do you guys think?

Make sure you wait a good 6 months to make sure the surfer doesn't get the rebate check AND chargeback.

On the other hand, getting the surfer's address to mail the rebate check to would be nice to have, can start sending them some junk mail spam to other programs and add some value. Put in some more deceptive marketing again and you can say that to claim the rebate they have to be willing to receive some junk mail. A nice way to pump those surfers for all they're worth...

WG

Rep · 12-30-2002, 08:21 PM

roger if you're online could you please contact me on icq

ICQ:157711456

Thanks

49thParallel · 12-30-2002, 08:37 PM

Pornking...you just don't get it, do you. There is a whole world of business that is conducted each and every day with honesty and integrity. Here, again are my real world comparisons to how the world would work if all business was operated like the adult industry...

Here's just a few examples...

You join a site because it's a "Mature" site. You pay your fee...go to the members area..and 99% of the content is anything but mature....Mainstream equivelent...You pay to go see the movie Harry Potter...they play Star Trek instead...both good movies, but I can guarantee that you will walk out or demand your money back. It doesn't matter if the second movie is good. That's not what you wanted to see.

Trials that need to be cancelled before end of trial: A mainstream equivelent: This would be similar to going to a ski hill and taking out some demos for 3 hours. But in the contract, somewhre on the 3rd page, after a bunch of other legal mumble jumble, there is a clause that says if you don't return them in 2 hours, you are charged full price for the skis. And the contract is not automatically given to you. You need to knock on a door at the back of the shop that says contract.

You rent a car for 2 days. Before the car is given to you, they clearly explain to you that the car needs to be back at XX time, or else you are charged for another day. On adult sites, not even in the T & C's does it ever state if a day is based on 24 hours or end of day...For example, Hustler's sites 1 day trials end at midnight. Try to find that anywhere in their terms. This goes completely against common sense.

Dialers...well there is a mainstream equivelent. It's called lottery scams. You know, the ones that say "dial this number to collect your prize". Unfortunately the number is an overseas number which bills you an outrageous amount per minute.

This arguement is pointless..no matter what, you will find ways to justify your actions...

TheDoc · 12-30-2002, 10:25 PM

Oh lord....

AOL = scam... They do give you 1000 minutes free, but to get the service you have to put your CC number in. If you do not cancel the account it will auto rebill. Ever read the terms, 6 month min bill time as soon as you put the CD in.

49thParallel, you need to learn about trials before you post theories on them. The only time the trial cancel rule comes into play is for people with their own merchant accounts. If the paysite owner uses epoch/ccbill/ibill ect the person can cancel up to the last second. You can signup for any LargeCash or PornKings site and you can cancel both minutes before it renews, even though our terms say 24 hours ahead of time.

Go rent a car, read the terms, ever see the part that says if you get a scratch or a dent they can make you BUY the car if you didnt get insurance? They don't tell ya that do they it's on the 3rd page after a ton of legal shit.

As for paysites that advertise 'mature' and don't give ANY mature I would need to see an example. I have not found a site that does this in a very long time. I do find sites that are mature, have mature content in the members area but as well offer other content. Why wouldnt you? Most people like more than one niche.

"MOST" money programs are not deceptive, for sure not in the ways most people think. Some offer better quality, more content, more updates but that isnt deceptive. That is the same as buying a Sony DVD player for $100 or an off brand pile of shit DVD player for $100 bucks. You take your chances when you spend your money at the store or online. You can't test the members section and you can't test the DVD player in the store in most cases.

Fact is, everyone turns to the other for an excuse as to why conversion ratios still arnt 1:200, trial to converts for most arnt 50%+ anymore.. What goes up must come down. Traffic is still the same as it was 3 years ago, just now people know their is more so as a webmaster you have to figure out how to satisfy each persons different needs, much like walmart does, which is why they are so fuggin huge. Prices are a tad lower but the selection is just huge. If an adult site could offer that type of selection, while being easy to surf it would do the same thing. Much like the Hustler store in LA did.

Relax some, Roger isnt doing deceptive marketing tatics, most programs arnt. About as stupid as half the guys thinking every money program shaves, when most have no clue what the traffic is doing once it's on the paysite anyway.

mpegposter · 12-30-2002, 10:29 PM

Pot, meet kettle.

Pornkings · 12-30-2002, 10:58 PM

the amount of webmasters who signed up today from this thread is over whelming.

I just turned my ICQ off to take a break and I'm out for drinks

I'm glad the guys with traffic understand

Doc Drop some more Knowledge

and educate some foo's

Glad to see other sponsors on boards becoming more active with webmasters

theking · 12-30-2002, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pornkings

I'm trying to figure out where you guys get all this false information from about all this deceptive marketing

Have you ever checked out the sites when password lists are posted? I have. If 90% of the sites say anything other than "If you join my site you are going to see the same overused plug-ins and content that you have seen on the other ten sites you have joined" they are practicing deception. In addition some of them of them are just terrible in every aspect, from content, to navigation, to 404's, to blind links that lead to popup hell. Just pure crap. I have wondered how so many sites still remain in business at all as I would assume that the chargeback percentage is very high. I also suspect that with the new Visa and Master Card rules the majority of these types of sites will not exist after 2003. There is not anyone that can seriously argue that the Adult Entertainment business is not filled with deception and outright fraud. As for those that run affiliate programs, that are not currently cheating their Webmasters, I have no doubt in my mind if the figures begin to go south they will cheat their Webmasters and we all know that the scripts exist to easily do this. The porn business is filled with the amoral, the unprincipled, the sleazy, the shady and the outright dishonest, whose only concern is the buck. There will probably be those that say the same thing exists in the brick and motar world of business and of course it does, but not near to the extent that it does in the porn business.

Sambuka · 12-31-2002, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by suesheboy
Great thread.

Deception is deception..cheating is cheating.

It is always wrong!

It might be wrong but without it most people here would earn 1/2 of what they do today.

Money is king, if your morality gets in the way of business go with for Mac Donalds.

Sammy

Sambuka · 12-31-2002, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by theking

Have you ever checked out the sites when password lists are posted? I have. If 90% of the sites say anything other than "If you join my site you are going to see the same overused plug-ins and content that you have seen on the other ten sites you have joined" they are practicing deception. In addition some of them of them are just terrible in every aspect, from content, to navigation, to 404's, to blind links that lead to popup hell. Just pure crap. I have wondered how so many sites still remain in business at all as I would assume that the chargeback percentage is very high. I also suspect that with the new Visa and Master Card rules the majority of these types of sites will not exist after 2003. There is not anyone that can seriously argue that the Adult Entertainment business is not filled with deception and outright fraud. As for those that run affiliate programs, that are not currently cheating their Webmasters, I have no doubt in my mind if the figures begin to go south they will cheat their Webmasters and we all know that the scripts exist to easily do this. The porn business is filled with the amoral, the unprincipled, the sleazy, the shady and the outright dishonest, whose only concern is the buck. There will probably be those that say the same thing exists in the brick and motar world of business and of course it does, but not near to the extent that it does in the porn business.

ALL TRUE.... Not everyone has bad members sections, but many have suck ass members areas quite true.

Sammy

12-30-2002, 03:58 PM	#1
Pornkings Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Roger V Posts: 5,334	Deceptive Marketing in adult and mainstream Welcome to the real world.. Deceptive marketing tactics I felt since some of you are so against certain marketing practices in the adult realm It deserved its own thread Have you ever purshased those great deals from mainstream with rebates. example:the cell phone deal is only $99 after you send in your $100 rebate which most people don't. AOL's free 1000 min. CDroms they send out to everyone these are all forms of deceptive marketing tactics to get you to Purchase there products or use there services. Examples http://www.nctimes.net/news/012600/m.html http://www.stretcher.com/stories/01/010625d.cfm http://www.krqe.com/Global/story.asp?S=355290 http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/Smartshoppin.html Is it wrong or just part of Marketing I call this thread welcome to the Real World what are your thought on this? __________________ Pornkings.com

12-30-2002, 04:02 PM	#2
Rep Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 991	I'm going to signup to PornKings! __________________ who \| grep -i blonde \| date; cd ~; unzip; touch; strip; finger; mount; gasp; yes; uptime; umount; sleep

12-30-2002, 04:07 PM	#3
suesheboy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: FL - TN/NC Posts: 5,211	Great thread. Deception is deception..cheating is cheating. It is always wrong! __________________ Adult Web Site Domain Names For Sale Adult Sex Toy Domain Names For Sale Tantric Delights, Sex Toys Blog, Tantric Sex Toys

12-30-2002, 04:11 PM	#4
jimmyf OU812 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: California Posts: 12,651	I don't care if Jesus A. Christ does it..... Deceptive marketing.... It's Wrong Period.. __________________ Epic CashEpic Cash works for me Solar Cash Paysite Plugin Gallery of the day freesites,POTD,Gallery generator with free hosting

12-30-2002, 04:30 PM	#6
greentea Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: South Florida Posts: 6,580	Deceptive marketing tactics thats what this industry is all about sad to say.. With the exception of a few.. __________________ blunts

12-30-2002, 04:27 PM	#5
Scootermuze Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 4,513	If you get the $100 by sending in the rebate, then it's not deceptive.. it's simply marketing strategy.. nothing misleading or deceptive about it... If you actually get 1000 free minutes when signing up with aol then it's marketing strategy.. mothing misleading about it.. If they offer one thing, then deliver another, then it's deceptive.. Lots of main stream businesses have their marketing strategies, but the deliver what they offer, or they'd be hung out to dry.. It seems that the adult biz is the only one that seems to think it's ok to screw their customers in one form or another.. primarily because they know that Joe Customer won't go yelling too loud out of fear of people knowing what they've been doing..

12-30-2002, 04:31 PM	#7
Pornkings Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Roger V Posts: 5,334	http://www.thestandard.com/article/d...1,6810,00.html why are adult companies having to resort to deceptive marketing tactic? Maybe because all of the free content that is out there who knows Is our Porn4a buck deceptive because we give them a full month of access for a $1. we clearly state it's 1 month or 30 days that rebills for a full memebership. they have a full month to cancel if they wish to. but it gives them a chance to check us out without having to dish out a full membership price right away. If a surfer can't afford a dollar trial membership for a month they sure can't afford anything else. Kinda like Aol's 1000 free min deals. what do you guys consider deceptive Marketing in the adult realm the free trials? what about TGp's with all the free conent Luring surfers in for a tease and trying to upsell them to a full paysite. what do you guys think is deceptive? __________________ Pornkings.com

12-30-2002, 04:33 PM	#8
nocostporn Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 5,228	deception is different than fine print ...On all of the AOL cd's I get it says X amount of hours for free for X amount of days,thats not deceptive...How are rebates deceptive? If you're a grownup with half a brain you already know how a rebate works,if you want it you send in your little coupon and you can expect your money back in a year lol... Deception is like having terms that only a lawyer or person of knowledge of the subject can understand... Face it,people are dumb and the adult industry takes advantage of it more than anybody...Accept THAT as the real world __________________ CashTheChecks.com -coming soon- "Exclusive sites for Exclusive Webmasters" ICQ-119966868,add me first don't message

12-30-2002, 04:36 PM	#11
greentea Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: South Florida Posts: 6,580	A nice example would be Crescent Publishing http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2001/11/crescentstlmt.htm __________________ blunts

12-30-2002, 04:39 PM	#14
Rep Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 991	Step 5: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Congradulations! You just signup up to the best affiliate program on the net! congratulations. __________________ who \| grep -i blonde \| date; cd ~; unzip; touch; strip; finger; mount; gasp; yes; uptime; umount; sleep

12-30-2002, 04:41 PM	#15
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Roger, why did you start this thread, the other one was handling it pretty well. I posted on page 4 of that thread, and I'm not going to re-post it here. There's a vast difference between deceptive marketing and a lazy consumer.

12-30-2002, 04:42 PM	#16
nocostporn Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 5,228	Roger I don't understand you on topics like these,are you defending yourself?,the industry? shady business tactics? or all 3?...It's hard to see where you're coming from __________________ CashTheChecks.com -coming soon- "Exclusive sites for Exclusive Webmasters" ICQ-119966868,add me first don't message

12-30-2002, 04:46 PM	#21
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Oh jimmyf, jimmyf, believe me when I tell you the truly bad guys are more than aware of what they are doing wrong. They don't fall down in disbelief when Visa kills their merch accts, they laugh at how long it took and go find another one... sigh

12-30-2002, 04:48 PM	#23
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Gee in this state we have what's called buyers remorse. You buy something major or something in certain categories (like people that come to your home and sell you vacuum cleaners), you have three days to get your money back, no questions asked. One could say that's a three day trial with a cancellation option.

12-30-2002, 05:50 PM	#36
FlyingIguana aspiring banker Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: toronto Posts: 10,870	rebates piss me off. i never base my buying decisions on rebates. i consider them a bonus if i do buy the product.

12-30-2002, 08:11 PM	#41
UncleJimmy Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: ariZONA Posts: 855	I'm a fucking existentialist so if you believe it's deceptive then it is, if you don't then it's not lots of grey in this world... what shade you wanna be is your choice, but again very a subjective area __________________ <a href="http://www.redpartners.com/?r=100278"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img src="http://britney-spears.blewme.com/wm.gif" width="120" height="60" border="0"></font></a><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Promote the web's hottest adult personals website, <a href="http://www.redpartners.com/?r=100278" target="_blank">Red Personals</a>.</font>

12-30-2002, 08:21 PM	#43
Rep Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 991	roger if you're online could you please contact me on icq ICQ:157711456 Thanks __________________ who \| grep -i blonde \| date; cd ~; unzip; touch; strip; finger; mount; gasp; yes; uptime; umount; sleep

12-30-2002, 08:37 PM	#44
49thParallel So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,197	Pornking...you just don't get it, do you. There is a whole world of business that is conducted each and every day with honesty and integrity. Here, again are my real world comparisons to how the world would work if all business was operated like the adult industry... Here's just a few examples... You join a site because it's a "Mature" site. You pay your fee...go to the members area..and 99% of the content is anything but mature....Mainstream equivelent...You pay to go see the movie Harry Potter...they play Star Trek instead...both good movies, but I can guarantee that you will walk out or demand your money back. It doesn't matter if the second movie is good. That's not what you wanted to see. Trials that need to be cancelled before end of trial: A mainstream equivelent: This would be similar to going to a ski hill and taking out some demos for 3 hours. But in the contract, somewhre on the 3rd page, after a bunch of other legal mumble jumble, there is a clause that says if you don't return them in 2 hours, you are charged full price for the skis. And the contract is not automatically given to you. You need to knock on a door at the back of the shop that says contract. You rent a car for 2 days. Before the car is given to you, they clearly explain to you that the car needs to be back at XX time, or else you are charged for another day. On adult sites, not even in the T & C's does it ever state if a day is based on 24 hours or end of day...For example, Hustler's sites 1 day trials end at midnight. Try to find that anywhere in their terms. This goes completely against common sense. Dialers...well there is a mainstream equivelent. It's called lottery scams. You know, the ones that say "dial this number to collect your prize". Unfortunately the number is an overseas number which bills you an outrageous amount per minute. This arguement is pointless..no matter what, you will find ways to justify your actions...

12-30-2002, 10:25 PM	#45
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	Oh lord.... AOL = scam... They do give you 1000 minutes free, but to get the service you have to put your CC number in. If you do not cancel the account it will auto rebill. Ever read the terms, 6 month min bill time as soon as you put the CD in. 49thParallel, you need to learn about trials before you post theories on them. The only time the trial cancel rule comes into play is for people with their own merchant accounts. If the paysite owner uses epoch/ccbill/ibill ect the person can cancel up to the last second. You can signup for any LargeCash or PornKings site and you can cancel both minutes before it renews, even though our terms say 24 hours ahead of time. Go rent a car, read the terms, ever see the part that says if you get a scratch or a dent they can make you BUY the car if you didnt get insurance? They don't tell ya that do they it's on the 3rd page after a ton of legal shit. As for paysites that advertise 'mature' and don't give ANY mature I would need to see an example. I have not found a site that does this in a very long time. I do find sites that are mature, have mature content in the members area but as well offer other content. Why wouldnt you? Most people like more than one niche. "MOST" money programs are not deceptive, for sure not in the ways most people think. Some offer better quality, more content, more updates but that isnt deceptive. That is the same as buying a Sony DVD player for $100 or an off brand pile of shit DVD player for $100 bucks. You take your chances when you spend your money at the store or online. You can't test the members section and you can't test the DVD player in the store in most cases. Fact is, everyone turns to the other for an excuse as to why conversion ratios still arnt 1:200, trial to converts for most arnt 50%+ anymore.. What goes up must come down. Traffic is still the same as it was 3 years ago, just now people know their is more so as a webmaster you have to figure out how to satisfy each persons different needs, much like walmart does, which is why they are so fuggin huge. Prices are a tad lower but the selection is just huge. If an adult site could offer that type of selection, while being easy to surf it would do the same thing. Much like the Hustler store in LA did. Relax some, Roger isnt doing deceptive marketing tatics, most programs arnt. About as stupid as half the guys thinking every money program shaves, when most have no clue what the traffic is doing once it's on the paysite anyway. __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation

12-30-2002, 10:29 PM	#46
mpegposter Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Tri-State Posts: 483	Pot, meet kettle. __________________ The voice of the Moral Minority. New Sponsor Converting Like Hell!

12-30-2002, 10:58 PM	#47
Pornkings Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Roger V Posts: 5,334	the amount of webmasters who signed up today from this thread is over whelming. I just turned my ICQ off to take a break and I'm out for drinks I'm glad the guys with traffic understand Doc Drop some more Knowledge and educate some foo's Glad to see other sponsors on boards becoming more active with webmasters __________________ Pornkings.com