Deceptive Marketing in adult and mainstream - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

UnseenWorld · 12-31-2002, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scootermuze
If you get the $100 by sending in the rebate, then it's not deceptive.. it's simply marketing strategy.. nothing misleading or deceptive about it...

Those rebate things piss me off. For example, while traveling recently, I bought an MP3 player with a $20 mail-in rebate. Since I was on the road, I didn't hang on to the packaging. Now I read the fine print and they want part of the packaging as a "proof of purchase." My receipt apparently isn't enough. Now, I'm sure someone when figuring out the cost of the program figured in putting in some bullshit so that they could refuse a certain percentage of the rebates. Is that honest? It's not what I call honest. Trickery isn't honest.

theking · 12-31-2002, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by UnseenWorld

Those rebate things piss me off. For example, while traveling recently, I bought an MP3 player with a $20 mail-in rebate. Since I was on the road, I didn't hang on to the packaging. Now I read the fine print and they want part of the packaging as a "proof of purchase." My receipt apparently isn't enough. Now, I'm sure someone when figuring out the cost of the program figured in putting in some bullshit so that they could refuse a certain percentage of the rebates. Is that honest? It's not what I call honest. Trickery isn't honest.

I had something happen along those lines. I bought a printer a few years ago and it came with a $50.00 rebate (If i remember the amount correctly). I sent in for the rebate only to learn that they would not send the rebate to a P.O. Box.

TheDoc · 12-31-2002, 12:57 AM

Don't use the sites listed on a password site to judge 'most' paysites. Most of the sites on a password lists are created for that purpose, most don't even have a front end.

Yes, their are paysites that rip off the visitor once they signup. At the same time their are paysites that give more than the value of the site.

This really is no worse than the non adult business world. Lies, cheating, scams, ect.. Just about every major company in the US has been caught up in some kind of scam. I'm sure millions of little ones do it every day as well.

It's business, shitty way to look at it but it's true.

The only issue at hand though is pointing fingers at sites/companies that you 'think' might be creating some kind of deception. The terms of a site or what a person thinks he knows is what get's things started. It's what really hurts us most. Don't assume.

Matt 26z · 12-31-2002, 01:47 AM

1. Free trials and low-cost trials are great. The problem is sites not making it PERFECTLY CLEAR that a full charge is on the way if they don't cancel. Simply having the billing screen say "$4.95 3 days access - Rebills at $30 monthly" isn't enough. Educate the surfer what rebills are, and the exact cancelation process before they hit the sign-up screen.

2. This SHIT of offering something "free" (requiring a CC for "age verification"), saying it's TOTALLY FREE 1,000 times, and then in the fine print at the bottom saying a seperate $40 paysite goes along with it has got to stop too.

3. And the biggest scam going is the screwjob members areas. You truly don't get what you pay for. Many sub-$20 sites kick the ass of $40 sites. When people see that $40 price, they are expecting to get one hell of a site. Give it to them.

Mutt · 12-31-2002, 02:29 AM

i agree. if you're charging 30 or 40 bucks a month give the people something at least decent. If MaxCash and CE can do it so can you. You don't have to shoot or buy exclusive content and spend a fortune. The prices for leased plugins and other licensed content are very reasonable. You can put together a nice members area.

there's a very large program, they don't advertise here, they were charging $49.95 a month. I checked out the inside of their sites once - my jaw dropped. Nothing! Nothing but the Holio package, that was it. Then they went even further, at the top of the members content page was a notice that if the customer stayed on after the trial or a second month they would have access to the live feeds and get a free videotape. The live feeds were just free upsell feeds and the free videotape was a link to Videoage.

that's just thievery.

kevinl · 12-31-2002, 02:40 AM

A good indication of how a sponsor is likely to treat you is how they treat the surfer. If they are out of fuck him why wouldn't they fuck you.
Kinda like when you go to a titty bar and one of the girls says your cute and she wants to dance for you. If you think she really gives a fuck what you look like then you pay the price.
My mom gave me some good advice when I left home-Don't do business with crooks.

greentea · 12-31-2002, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mutt
i agree. if you're charging 30 or 40 bucks a month give the people something at least decent. If MaxCash and CE can do it so can you. You don't have to shoot or buy exclusive content and spend a fortune. The prices for leased plugins and other licensed content are very reasonable. You can put together a nice members area.

there's a very large program, they don't advertise here, they were charging $49.95 a month. I checked out the inside of their sites once - my jaw dropped. Nothing! Nothing but the Holio package, that was it. Then they went even further, at the top of the members content page was a notice that if the customer stayed on after the trial or a second month they would have access to the live feeds and get a free videotape. The live feeds were just free upsell feeds and the free videotape was a link to Videoage.

that's just thievery.

Mutt would that program be run by australians?

Mutt · 12-31-2002, 02:48 AM

g'day mate!

and not ScottPB or Intergal.

andrew1009 · 12-31-2002, 04:17 AM

.... so say I was at a strip club and I was into, say Blondes. So i pay a blonde GIRL to give me a lapdance. then "she" turns around and has a GIANT boner... 'BONUS CONTENT"... woo..hoo?

... I'm just babeling almost 6:30am, havn't slept yet.

i have some more examples but i can't even see the text on my screen my vision's so blurry right now, maybe tommorow folks. When I'm sober and awake

AOLGuy · 12-31-2002, 08:34 AM

There are values to be had and many porn enthusiasts aren't stupid. If you have a good site with a quality tour, you can win savvy surfers over. And they are less likely to charge back--not like Joe Average who wants "free porn" and gives out his CC, then freaks when his wife sees the bill.

Clearly though, the numbers game favors people not making a stink--hell, I still need to make time to contest $300 in rebates that were arbitrarily denied on first try... it's a pain, and the companies know it.

But there are other ways to play ball:

I convert at 1 in 25 with my own site that is on a quality, smaller AVS where the charge is $24.95 for a year's worth of access to EXCLUSIVE original young amateur content I shot. Members also get access to hundreds of other quality amateur sites that beat your average adult site.

http://erotic.redclouds.com/latenightgirl/

Much better than many sites charging $24.95 a month, that is for sure...

As long as hidden charges and thin sites leave a bad taste in surfer's mouths, I will make my living selling a straightforward no bullshit value with no rebills or hidden charges.

Fuck, I need to start an affiliate program--anyone who wants to help set it up, run it, or promote me--email me to [email protected]. I am comfortable as is, and am only marketing to a miniscule slice of our very large pie.

AKFK

theking · 12-31-2002, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kevinl
A good indication of how a sponsor is likely to treat you is how they treat the surfer. If they are out of fuck him why wouldn't they fuck you.

Good logic.

UnseenWorld · 12-31-2002, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Matt 26z
1. Free trials and low-cost trials are great. The problem is sites not making it PERFECTLY CLEAR that a full charge is on the way if they don't cancel. Simply having the billing screen say "$4.95 3 days access - Rebills at $30 monthly" isn't enough.

I think some webmasters think the layman surfer understands our business jargon. Instead of saying "rebill" EXPLAIN that they will be billed every month until they cancel. If this kills your profits, it means you have a crap site.

mpegposter · 12-31-2002, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kevinl
A good indication of how a sponsor is likely to treat you is how they treat the surfer. If they are out of fuck him why wouldn't they fuck you.
Kinda like when you go to a titty bar and one of the girls says your cute and she wants to dance for you. If you think she really gives a fuck what you look like then you pay the price.
My mom gave me some good advice when I left home-Don't do business with crooks.

Exactly. Notice how (I believe) all of the sponsors save LargeCash defending deceptive marketing practices don't buy ad space on GFY? But they have hundreds of posts, getting plenty of 'free' exposure. But unfortunately they are followers too, for many years large adult companies have deceived and ripped off customers and webmasters alike. These new folks are just much worse at it, and doing it on a smaller budget.

Carol@Pixipay · 01-02-2003, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Have you ever checked out the sites when password lists are posted? I have. If 90% of the sites say anything other than "If you join my site you are going to see the same overused plug-ins and content that you have seen on the other ten sites you have joined" they are practicing deception. In addition some of them of them are just terrible in every aspect, from content, to navigation, to 404's, to blind links that lead to popup hell. Just pure crap. I have wondered how so many sites still remain in business at all as I would assume that the chargeback percentage is very high. I also suspect that with the new Visa and Master Card rules the majority of these types of sites will not exist after 2003. There is not anyone that can seriously argue that the Adult Entertainment business is not filled with deception and outright fraud. As for those that run affiliate programs, that are not currently cheating their Webmasters, I have no doubt in my mind if the figures begin to go south they will cheat their Webmasters and we all know that the scripts exist to easily do this. The porn business is filled with the amoral, the unprincipled, the sleazy, the shady and the outright dishonest, whose only concern is the buck. There will probably be those that say the same thing exists in the brick and motar world of business and of course it does, but not near to the extent that it does in the porn business.

I dont typically post here but this thread caught my eye.

I've heard tale of deception in the adult industry since the day I walked in, I've heard about shitty members sections, free trials not being free yada yada...it's no secret what the world thinks of this industry - and frankly many of the people actively in the industry show it little respect but that's a different thread - it is always assumed that the online porn industry must be fucking both it's consumers and it's supporters, by in large I think this assumption comes from past practices not current ones.

I'm drifiting my apologies

Big business - medium business - small business - any business has one goal, to make money - this being the case all business is fraight with deception and "marketing tactics" that are less than up front. Every industry out there participates in trying to "fool" it's customers. This is not to say that it's a good practice, this is not to imply that it will result in anything less than a big old bite in the ass when someone nails you about the "trickery", whatever it may be. I am constantly amazed that people in this day and age are not actively trying to protect themselves from scams and the like not to mention the naïveté required to express shock when they actually fall for something stupid like "mail this in by Jan 4th and be the Next Big Winner"

12-31-2002, 12:57 AM	#53
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	Don't use the sites listed on a password site to judge 'most' paysites. Most of the sites on a password lists are created for that purpose, most don't even have a front end. Yes, their are paysites that rip off the visitor once they signup. At the same time their are paysites that give more than the value of the site. This really is no worse than the non adult business world. Lies, cheating, scams, ect.. Just about every major company in the US has been caught up in some kind of scam. I'm sure millions of little ones do it every day as well. It's business, shitty way to look at it but it's true. The only issue at hand though is pointing fingers at sites/companies that you 'think' might be creating some kind of deception. The terms of a site or what a person thinks he knows is what get's things started. It's what really hurts us most. Don't assume. __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation

12-31-2002, 02:29 AM	#55
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	i agree. if you're charging 30 or 40 bucks a month give the people something at least decent. If MaxCash and CE can do it so can you. You don't have to shoot or buy exclusive content and spend a fortune. The prices for leased plugins and other licensed content are very reasonable. You can put together a nice members area. there's a very large program, they don't advertise here, they were charging $49.95 a month. I checked out the inside of their sites once - my jaw dropped. Nothing! Nothing but the Holio package, that was it. Then they went even further, at the top of the members content page was a notice that if the customer stayed on after the trial or a second month they would have access to the live feeds and get a free videotape. The live feeds were just free upsell feeds and the free videotape was a link to Videoage. that's just thievery. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

12-31-2002, 02:40 AM	#56
kevinl Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: US Posts: 261	A good indication of how a sponsor is likely to treat you is how they treat the surfer. If they are out of fuck him why wouldn't they fuck you. Kinda like when you go to a titty bar and one of the girls says your cute and she wants to dance for you. If you think she really gives a fuck what you look like then you pay the price. My mom gave me some good advice when I left home-Don't do business with crooks. __________________ kevinl

12-31-2002, 02:48 AM	#58
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	g'day mate! and not ScottPB or Intergal. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

12-31-2002, 01:47 AM	#54
Matt 26z So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: ¤ª"˜¨๑۩۞۩๑¨˜"ª¤ Posts: 18,481	1. Free trials and low-cost trials are great. The problem is sites not making it PERFECTLY CLEAR that a full charge is on the way if they don't cancel. Simply having the billing screen say "$4.95 3 days access - Rebills at $30 monthly" isn't enough. Educate the surfer what rebills are, and the exact cancelation process before they hit the sign-up screen. 2. This SHIT of offering something "free" (requiring a CC for "age verification"), saying it's TOTALLY FREE 1,000 times, and then in the fine print at the bottom saying a seperate $40 paysite goes along with it has got to stop too. 3. And the biggest scam going is the screwjob members areas. You truly don't get what you pay for. Many sub-$20 sites kick the ass of $40 sites. When people see that $40 price, they are expecting to get one hell of a site. Give it to them.

12-31-2002, 04:17 AM	#59
andrew1009 Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 801	.... so say I was at a strip club and I was into, say Blondes. So i pay a blonde GIRL to give me a lapdance. then "she" turns around and has a GIANT boner... 'BONUS CONTENT"... woo..hoo? ... I'm just babeling almost 6:30am, havn't slept yet. i have some more examples but i can't even see the text on my screen my vision's so blurry right now, maybe tommorow folks. When I'm sober and awake

12-31-2002, 08:34 AM	#60
AOLGuy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Nebraska Posts: 1,261	There are values to be had and many porn enthusiasts aren't stupid. If you have a good site with a quality tour, you can win savvy surfers over. And they are less likely to charge back--not like Joe Average who wants "free porn" and gives out his CC, then freaks when his wife sees the bill. Clearly though, the numbers game favors people not making a stink--hell, I still need to make time to contest $300 in rebates that were arbitrarily denied on first try... it's a pain, and the companies know it. But there are other ways to play ball: I convert at 1 in 25 with my own site that is on a quality, smaller AVS where the charge is $24.95 for a year's worth of access to EXCLUSIVE original young amateur content I shot. Members also get access to hundreds of other quality amateur sites that beat your average adult site. http://erotic.redclouds.com/latenightgirl/ Much better than many sites charging $24.95 a month, that is for sure... As long as hidden charges and thin sites leave a bad taste in surfer's mouths, I will make my living selling a straightforward no bullshit value with no rebills or hidden charges. Fuck, I need to start an affiliate program--anyone who wants to help set it up, run it, or promote me--email me to [email protected]. I am comfortable as is, and am only marketing to a miniscule slice of our very large pie. AKFK