what's the opposite of a socialist? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

theking · 04-21-2010, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Anyway....

This seems to be the root cause of most of the paranoia (that I've witnessed) displayed by extreme right "Socialism!" finger pointers. They seem to think that providing affordable health care to everyone is somehow going to cause Stalin to rise up from the grave and put us all in forced labor camps, and it's simply ludicrous. And then the conversation usually devolves into blaming illegal immigrants for everything and goes to hell from there.

That is the general gist of it...and it is indeed ludicrous...but understandable since the conservatives want to demonize the current Congress and Administration in the hopes that it will help them to regain power.

dyna mo · 04-21-2010, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Anyway....

This seems to be the root cause of most of the paranoia (that I've witnessed) displayed by extreme right "Socialism!" finger pointers. They seem to think that providing affordable health care to everyone is somehow going to cause Stalin to rise up from the grave and put us all in forced labor camps, and it's simply ludicrous. And then the conversation usually devolves into blaming illegal immigrants for everything and goes to hell from there.

hah, i spent the day yesterday at a 420 gathering and a couple peeps there did this very line of thinking.

EZRhino · 04-21-2010, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Here's what I have to say to the nutcase right wingers that have been running around flailing their arms crying "Socialism!"....

If you're going to be against socialism, then that's fine... but BE against it all the way.
Give up your Medicare. Give up your Social Security. Stop driving on publicly funded roads. Pull your kids out of public schools. Don't be a hypocrite.... socialism is an evil product of the Devil, right?

So be against it. Denounce everything that has socialist leanings.... not just the ones you decide to cherry pick.

Or get over yourselves, shut up, and move the fuck on with your lives.

Come on, a tax payer can take advantage of tax payer funded programs and still be against socialism.

Liberals should stop crying about big business and the church and give up all their income for the greater good and all become atheists.
So be against it. Denounce everything that has right wing leanings.... not just the ones you decide to cherry pick.

Or get over yourselves, shut up, and move the fuck on with your lives.

_Richard_ · 04-21-2010, 12:23 PM

probably should figure out if the definition of socialism is the same

$5 submissions · 04-21-2010, 12:38 PM

The opposite... If a socialist believes in the STATE providing everything, then the opposite would be someone who doesn't want a state. I would guess an ANARCHIST?

TheDoc · 04-21-2010, 01:00 PM

To me socialism in gov and libertarianism are vastly different in nature - if you have one you must have the other. You could have a major socialist gov and still have mostly libertarian values towards the people as they are the ones in control over the social agendas.

Every successful gov in the world has had social agendas. But the most simple idea of libertarianism has proven to already fail, time and time again - without control, the places rip itself apart and open the door for dictators.

sperbonzo · 04-21-2010, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

To me socialism in gov and libertarianism are vastly different in nature - if you have one you must have the other. You could have a major socialist gov and still have mostly libertarian values towards the people as they are the ones in control over the social agendas.

Every successful gov in the world has had social agendas. But the most simple idea of libertarianism has proven to already fail, time and time again - without control, the places rip itself apart and open the door for dictators.

Sorry doc, but I'm going to have to disagree here.... Libertarianism has NEVER been tried. The closest we have come on a large scale, was the earliest days of the USA.... and that has quickly evolved far away from it, but not resulting in dictatorship.

It has never been tried in Europe. All European governments evolved from dictatorships, sometimes called monarchies.

As for people being "involved in social agenda's", there is no room in Libertarianism for people to have the right to tell someone else ANYTHING regarding "social agenda's" without the persons voluntary co-operation. As soon as you legistlate the use of force to control a "social agenda", you go away from actual Libertarianism.

TheDoc · 04-21-2010, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Sorry doc, but I'm going to have to disagree here.... Libertarianism has NEVER been tried. The closest we have come on a large scale, was the earliest days of the USA.... and that has quickly evolved far away from it, but not resulting in dictatorship.

It has never been tried in Europe. All European governments evolved from dictatorships, sometimes called monarchies.

It's tried in every city, neighborhood, block, group of people in the world, every day, all day... it fails every day, all day.

People aren't just going to leave people alone - even in the most respectable countries people wise. And as soon as you can vote you will have rules that others don't agree with, the entire thing breaks down... it's impossible to have a libertarian system but you can have the values.

u-Bob · 04-21-2010, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

And as soon as you can vote you will have rules that others don't agree with, the entire thing breaks down...

A true libertarian world is incompatible with democracy. So even if a majority voted one way, they wouldn't have the right to impose their will on the rest.

dyna mo · 04-21-2010, 02:51 PM

well, it doesn't seem then that in the real world librarians are the opposite of socialism eh?

from my view, i am trying to see these peeps that are calling people socialists. who are these guys buying the socialist propaganda?

while it does seems for the sake of arguing, that libertarians are the opposite.

u-Bob · 04-21-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

who are these guys buying the socialist propaganda?

follow the misses.org link I posted

dyna mo · 04-21-2010, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u-Bob

follow the misses.org link I posted

thank you for the link, good info.

my question is more specific though-

who are these people?

leedsfan · 04-21-2010, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theking

No...pure Socialism hasn't worked.

did you try it out in your basement?

And for the record neither has pure capitalism. Not that I am a proponent of either.

u-Bob · 04-21-2010, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leedsfan

did you try it out in your basement?

And for the record neither has pure capitalism. Not that I am a proponent of either.

pure capitalism = laissez-faire capitalism = anarcho-capitalism.

And it has never been tried. The only thing that came close was the Icelandic Free State from 930 to 1262.

The Demon · 04-21-2010, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyandin

It's absolutely amazing to see how abysmally uneducated 90% of the people who try to debate politics are. This is not at all a partisan post, but since the topic of Socialism is at hand, I must say as a general message:

1. Stop confusing Socialism with Communism. They are NOT the same thing.

2. Stop branding anything you don't like as <insert a party name or epithet for that party here>, and really take the time to understand those who you think are your political opponents as much as those that you think you support. You might be surprised at the results.

I love healthy debate, but come on people.

Never seen a better post on this forum, looks like you'll offend a lot of these queers.

The Demon · 04-21-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waddymelon

The USSR was an example of a socialist government. He who hurries can not walk with dignity.

Are you braindead? The USSR was purely communist.

The Demon · 04-21-2010, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u-Bob

pure capitalism = laissez-faire capitalism = anarcho-capitalism.

And it has never been tried. The only thing that came close was the Icelandic Free State from 930 to 1262.

The idea is great though. How I miss the Austrian School of Economics' influence.

TheDoc · 04-21-2010, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

well, it doesn't seem then that in the real world librarians are the opposite of socialism eh?

from my view, i am trying to see these peeps that are calling people socialists. who are these guys buying the socialist propaganda?

while it does seems for the sake of arguing, that libertarians are the opposite.

Libertarian is a social aspect of the people.. (yes I know they have a political party, but...). it's not a way you can manage how the gov provides or doesn't provide for the people.

I don't know if people are buying the socialist idea, more than they are to stupid to realize we are already and have been a socialist republic for a long time.

The opposite would be a 3rd world country, no gov/providing.. or maybe a dictatorship.

Amputate Your Head · 04-21-2010, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EZRhino

Come on, a tax payer can take advantage of tax payer funded programs and still be against socialism.

No. You cannot be against socialism as long as your hand is still in the social cookie jar reaping the benefits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EZRhino

Liberals should stop crying about big business and the church and give up all their income for the greater good and all become atheists.
So be against it. Denounce everything that has right wing leanings.... not just the ones you decide to cherry pick.

Or get over yourselves, shut up, and move the fuck on with your lives.

I've actually done just that. I gave up everything for the greater good. Donated all I had to the vets programs. I am an atheist. I have, and continue to denounce everything right-wing leaning.

Boobzooka · 04-21-2010, 08:14 PM

People who want to cram the whole world into one word philosophies are being overly simplistic and intellectually lazy. Different social tools work better for different problems. If you want the best television, you need capitalism. If you want the best fire service, you need socialism. Every country experiments with which tools work best for which job, and eventually the optimal balance becomes obvious; America becomes more socialist, China becomes more capitalist. Absolutists who try to turn one tool into a religion always end up defending unrealistic positions to the point of absurdity.

EZRhino · 04-21-2010, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

No. You cannot be against socialism as long as your hand is still in the social cookie jar reaping the benefits.

I've actually done just that. I gave up everything for the greater good. Donated all I had to the vets programs. I am an atheist. I have, and continue to denounce everything right-wing leaning.

Congrats hope its working out for you. Extreme left sounds like a great place to be. Let us know when you give up your computer for the greater good.

u-Bob · 04-22-2010, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

The idea is great though. How I miss the Austrian School of Economics' influence.

http://mises.org/about/3249

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard-lib.html

Amputate Your Head · 04-22-2010, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EZRhino

Congrats hope its working out for you. Extreme left sounds like a great place to be. Let us know when you give up your computer for the greater good.

I've donated several computers as well over the last ten years. No point in them sitting in a closet collecting dust, and why sell them when I can give them to someone who needs one and is unable to buy one. I donate stuff constantly throughout the year. Food, clothing, furniture, computers, printers, my time, my help.... If that's not 'giving it up to the greater good' then I don't know what is.

I have 13 bags of clothing that's being picked up today for donation.

I also do not claim a tax credit for my donations.

What have you done lately for 'the greater good'?

Dirty Lord · 04-22-2010, 07:10 AM

smarts
bye

Serial Pervert · 04-22-2010, 07:14 AM

a realist person?

pornguy · 04-22-2010, 07:42 AM

Not that long ago I was driving though down town Havana, I passed by thousands of people walking, riding bikes or pushing carts made from various things.. we happened to stop in front of a building. I looked at it and realized that at one time it had been a department store but it was now chained up and empty of anything that would make it so. I then looked a little higher and could see the outline of the letters that had once formed the store name.

Sadly this store would have been able to sell the people on the streets the bikes that they need. The tools to fix them and not have to tie them with rope or rubber.

But that store was taken when Castro took over. He " Spread the Wealth ". I also happened to notice that the people that work in government have nice clothes, Not uniforms like most employees but VERY nice clothes. Armani etc..

The schools are GREAT and no one goes without an education. Medical is great. when they have the tools to treat you. Wonderful thing this socialism

By the way. I was able to read that the store had once been a Sears.

Amputate Your Head · 04-22-2010, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornguy

Not that long ago I was driving though down town Havana, I passed by thousands of people walking, riding bikes or pushing carts made from various things.. we happened to stop in front of a building. I looked at it and realized that at one time it had been a department store but it was now chained up and empty of anything that would make it so. I then looked a little higher and could see the outline of the letters that had once formed the store name.

Sadly this store would have been able to sell the people on the streets the bikes that they need. The tools to fix them and not have to tie them with rope or rubber.

But that store was taken when Castro took over. He " Spread the Wealth ". I also happened to notice that the people that work in government have nice clothes, Not uniforms like most employees but VERY nice clothes. Armani etc..

The schools are GREAT and no one goes without an education. Medical is great. when they have the tools to treat you. Wonderful thing this socialism

By the way. I was able to read that the store had once been a Sears.

And yet here... the Sears stores remain open so you can get bike parts & tools.
But our education is nearly flat lined, and millions can't afford health care.
So at least we have functioning bicycles to ride while we look for minimum wage jobs because our education system failed us and we can't afford a functioning car.

CDSmith · 04-22-2010, 08:59 AM

The Socialist or "socializer" or "socialite" is a very social person, otherwise described as a "people person".

Thus the opposite of socialist would be antisocialist, as in one who is anti-social.

One described as a loner. AKA: hermit.

"Look at that house. Does that guy that lives there ever come out of it? What an anti-socialist. Something's not right with a guy like that. We should round up the neighbors, light some torches and go burn him out."

Class dismissed.

pornguy · 04-22-2010, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

And yet here... the Sears stores remain open so you can get bike parts & tools.
But our education is nearly flat lined, and millions can't afford health care.
So at least we have functioning bicycles to ride while we look for minimum wage jobs because our education system failed us and we can't afford a functioning car.

Medicaid and Medicare. sounds like socialized medicine to me.

Pay the teachers the money they deserve and kids will get a better education and turn off the fucking idiot box.

Amputate Your Head · 04-22-2010, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornguy

Medicaid and Medicare. sounds like socialized medicine to me.

Pay the teachers the money they deserve and kids will get a better education and turn off the fucking idiot box.

But wait....

Why should I have to pay for teacher's salaries? Why should my tax dollars be used to pay for education? I'm not going to those schools. I don't have kids in those schools.
Isn't that socialism? You expect ME to pay for teacher's salaries so YOUR kids can get a better education?

Fuck that. That's socialism. Every man for himself. The strong will survive and the weak will just fucking lose.

See how retarded that sounds?

The Demon · 04-22-2010, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

But wait....

Why should I have to pay for teacher's salaries? Why should my tax dollars be used to pay for education? I'm not going to those schools. I don't have kids in those schools.
Isn't that socialism? You expect ME to pay for teacher's salaries so YOUR kids can get a better education?

Fuck that. That's socialism. Every man for himself. The strong will survive and the weak will just fucking lose.

See how retarded that sounds?

Hilarously flawed logic. Thanks for the laugh. While you're at it, why should you have to pay taxes? You don't use most of the government programs(do you?) Fuck them! what you make you should be able to keep. Because that's the same thing as socialism!!(rofl)

Amputate Your Head · 04-22-2010, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

Hilarously flawed logic. Thanks for the laugh. While you're at it, why should you have to pay taxes? You don't use most of the government programs(do you?) Fuck them! what you make you should be able to keep. Because that's the same thing as socialism!!(rofl)

Indeed. It IS flawed logic. That's the point.
The very same flawed logic used by right-wing nutballs when they bitch & moan about passing an affordable healthcare bill WHILE they collect Social Security & Medicare benefits.

So why do I have to pay in to SS & Medicare? I'm not getting EITHER one of those. Probably some old bag with a bad hip in Ohio somewhere is reaping the rewards of MY hard work & money. I don't want to hear her whining about "socialism" when she (or anyone else) is actively reaping the benefits of the work of others.

TheDoc · 04-22-2010, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

Hilarously flawed logic. Thanks for the laugh. While you're at it, why should you have to pay taxes? You don't use most of the government programs(do you?) Fuck them! what you make you should be able to keep. Because that's the same thing as socialism!!(rofl)

I think Amp supports socialist ideas being that we use them every day, his comment sounded a bit sarcastic.

However with his comment, I do agree that if I have no kids or my kids are done with school, I don't feel it's right to keep paying taxes on it when I'm not using it. Charter schools which are the #1 ranked schools in America - prove you don't need 2x the money per student and a life time of taxes to create a great education for everyone.

TheDoc · 04-22-2010, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Indeed. It IS flawed logic. That's the point.
The very same flawed logic used by right-wing nutballs when they bitch & moan about passing an affordable healthcare bill WHILE they collect Social Security & Medicare benefits.

So why do I have to pay in to SS & Medicare? I'm not getting EITHER one of those. Probably some old bag with a bad hip in Ohio somewhere is reaping the rewards of MY hard work & money. I don't want to hear her whining about "socialism" when she (or anyone else) is actively reaping the benefits of the work of others.

Ahh see, I typed to slow...

The Demon · 04-22-2010, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Indeed. It IS flawed logic. That's the point.
The very same flawed logic used by right-wing nutballs when they bitch & moan about passing an affordable healthcare bill WHILE they collect Social Security & Medicare benefits.

So why do I have to pay in to SS & Medicare? I'm not getting EITHER one of those. Probably some old bag with a bad hip in Ohio somewhere is reaping the rewards of MY hard work & money. I don't want to hear her whining about "socialism" when she (or anyone else) is actively reaping the benefits of the work of others.

I support some kind of help to the poor which is why I'm fine with medicare. I support the elderly because they spent their lives working their asses off mostly, and you'll be getting the same benefits when you're old, if you have a real job. Adding a health care bill that nobody understands+another trillion dollars, is pure overkill. There's no hypocrisy or double standards here, just you ranting on about the right.

theking · 04-22-2010, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

I support some kind of help to the poor which is why I'm fine with medicare. I support the elderly because they spent their lives working their asses off mostly, and you'll be getting the same benefits when you're old, if you have a real job. Adding a health care bill that nobody understands+another trillion dollars, is pure overkill. There's no hypocrisy or double standards here, just you ranting on about the right.

News flash...Medicare is for the aged and disabled that has paid into SS.

Tom_PM · 04-22-2010, 11:01 AM

The people holding those signs dont rely on their own brains to define it. Thats the problem. Thats why the opposite of socialist is maverick.

Amputate Your Head · 04-22-2010, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

I support some kind of help to the poor which is why I'm fine with medicare. I support the elderly because they spent their lives working their asses off mostly, and you'll be getting the same benefits when you're old, if you have a real job. Adding a health care bill that nobody understands+another trillion dollars, is pure overkill. There's no hypocrisy or double standards here, just you ranting on about the right.

Sorry, but I do see it as hypocrisy and double-standard.
If you don't understand the bill, try reading.
You say you support help for the poor, well who do you think the people are that can't afford health insurance? Clue: It ain't the rich people.
Only the elderly deserve socialized medical treatment?

And when the poor have no insurance, can't pay, or go to a "free" clinic, who do you think is paying for that anyway? Clue: it ain't the non-tax paying, non-premium paying poor people. It's the rest of us.

And since we are already paying for it, why not attempt to eliminate all the red-tape & headaches and hoop-jumping and at least make an effort to give everyone a shot at reasonably priced basic human health care, and maybe even fix the ridiculously fucked up insurance system and the madness that is health care cost. 2 Tylenols at the hospital should NEVER cost $1200, but they do.

Yeah, I'm ranting on a bit about the right. But who are the ones with the damaged brain stems that can't see past themselves for two seconds to acknowledge simple logic, because of some unjustified leftover fear propaganda from the "He's a commie!"" era. Clue: It ain't the left.

Overkill?

Overkill to me is funneling trillions of dollars into mortgage companies and Wall Street, bailing out giant corporations that deserve to fail for their mistakes, while Joe "The Idiot" Plumber and everyone else is losing their homes & jobs, STILL.

Allowing people the opportunity to NOT die from pneumonia because they can't afford the "price" of living, is never overkill.

Word to your mother.

The Demon · 04-22-2010, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theking

News flash...Medicare is for the aged and disabled that has paid into SS.

GRRR I meant medicaid.

04-21-2010, 12:38 PM	#55
$5 submissions I help you SUCCEED Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Pearl of the Orient Seas Posts: 32,195	The opposite... If a socialist believes in the STATE providing everything, then the opposite would be someone who doesn't want a state. I would guess an ANARCHIST? __________________ Need a NON-ADULT income stream? We build your YOUTUBE CHANNEL for only $20 per video! For Hire: $3/hour or $400 per month Marketing Specialist Virtual Assistants

04-21-2010, 01:00 PM	#56
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	To me socialism in gov and libertarianism are vastly different in nature - if you have one you must have the other. You could have a major socialist gov and still have mostly libertarian values towards the people as they are the ones in control over the social agendas. Every successful gov in the world has had social agendas. But the most simple idea of libertarianism has proven to already fail, time and time again - without control, the places rip itself apart and open the door for dictators. __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation Last edited by TheDoc; 04-21-2010 at 01:02 PM..

04-21-2010, 08:14 PM	#70
Boobzooka Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: BOOBZOOKA.COM Posts: 626	People who want to cram the whole world into one word philosophies are being overly simplistic and intellectually lazy. Different social tools work better for different problems. If you want the best television, you need capitalism. If you want the best fire service, you need socialism. Every country experiments with which tools work best for which job, and eventually the optimal balance becomes obvious; America becomes more socialist, China becomes more capitalist. Absolutists who try to turn one tool into a religion always end up defending unrealistic positions to the point of absurdity. __________________ BOOBZOOKA: Amateur Affiliate Program featuring SellYourSexTape: Real couples document their lovelife for one week. HerBedroomWindow: Girls recording themselves alone at home. \| DareRing: "Truth Or Dare?" themed adult party games. Last edited by Boobzooka; 04-21-2010 at 08:19 PM..

04-22-2010, 07:10 AM	#74
Dirty Lord Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,681	smarts bye __________________

04-22-2010, 07:14 AM	#75
Serial Pervert Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,666	a realist person? __________________

04-21-2010, 12:23 PM	#54
_Richard_ Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 30,985	probably should figure out if the definition of socialism is the same

04-21-2010, 02:51 PM	#60
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 64,340	well, it doesn't seem then that in the real world librarians are the opposite of socialism eh? from my view, i am trying to see these peeps that are calling people socialists. who are these guys buying the socialist propaganda? while it does seems for the sake of arguing, that libertarians are the opposite.

04-22-2010, 07:42 AM	#76
pornguy Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Homeless Posts: 62,911	Not that long ago I was driving though down town Havana, I passed by thousands of people walking, riding bikes or pushing carts made from various things.. we happened to stop in front of a building. I looked at it and realized that at one time it had been a department store but it was now chained up and empty of anything that would make it so. I then looked a little higher and could see the outline of the letters that had once formed the store name. Sadly this store would have been able to sell the people on the streets the bikes that they need. The tools to fix them and not have to tie them with rope or rubber. But that store was taken when Castro took over. He " Spread the Wealth ". I also happened to notice that the people that work in government have nice clothes, Not uniforms like most employees but VERY nice clothes. Armani etc.. The schools are GREAT and no one goes without an education. Medical is great. when they have the tools to treat you. Wonderful thing this socialism By the way. I was able to read that the store had once been a Sears. __________________ PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online! TChicks.com \| Angeles Cid \| Mariana Cordoba \| MAILERS WELCOME!

04-22-2010, 08:59 AM	#78
CDSmith Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: My network is hosted at TECHIEMEDIA.net ...Wait, you meant where am I located at? Oh... okay, I'm in Winnipeg, Canada. Oops. :) Posts: 51,460	The Socialist or "socializer" or "socialite" is a very social person, otherwise described as a "people person". Thus the opposite of socialist would be antisocialist, as in one who is anti-social. One described as a loner. AKA: hermit. "Look at that house. Does that guy that lives there ever come out of it? What an anti-socialist. Something's not right with a guy like that. We should round up the neighbors, light some torches and go burn him out." Class dismissed. __________________ *Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!* ALWAYS THE HIGHEST PAYOUTS: Big Bux/ImLive SIGNUP ON NOW!!! Put some PUSSYCA$H in your pocket. ICQ me at: 31024634

04-22-2010, 11:01 AM	#87
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	The people holding those signs dont rely on their own brains to define it. Thats the problem. Thats why the opposite of socialist is maverick. __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.