The Arizona law is really bringing out the uneducated idiots

[SEO Expert]

"If every state had its own laws, we wouldn't be one country; we'd be 50 different countries," said Thomas Saenz, president and general counsel of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund.

[BestXXXPorn]

Holy SHIT that is awesome, hahahahahahhah

And sad as it shows people have no fucking clue as to how this system of government is SUPPOSED to operate...

[xNetworx]

I still can't decide if this AZ law is good or bad

[Fletch XXX]

state rights are good.

and no doubt most here forget what the civil war was fought ACTUALLY over, it was NOT SLAVERY, it was state rights.

It is a crime to be in this country illegally, so it is not a state by state law. AZ is just the first state to actually made a bill on it and actually act on the law. I am disappointed so many people think AZ is bad for trying to fight illegal aliens.

Originally Posted by SEO Expert

"If every state had its own laws, we wouldn't be one country; we'd be 50 different countries," said Thomas Saenz, president and general counsel of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund.

Nice quote from a group that thinks illegals have the same rights as US citizens.

[mgtarheels]

I think you're misinterpreting what he's saying. Just remember federal supersedes state.

[Vendzilla]

I just wish california would be next to have that law

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by mgtarheels

I think you're misinterpreting what he's saying. Just remember federal supersedes state.

But in this case, it's the state passing a law because they are tired of the federal not doing anything

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

But in this case, it's the state passing a law because they are tired of the federal not doing anything

same with calis pot laws!

LEGALIZE IN NOVEMBER!!!

GO CALI!

[cherrylula]

Originally Posted by SEO Expert

"If every state had its own laws, we wouldn't be one country; we'd be 50 different countries," said Thomas Saenz, president and general counsel of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund.

wait, what?

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by SEO Expert

"If every state had its own laws, we wouldn't be one country; we'd be 50 different countries," said Thomas Saenz, president and general counsel of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund.

I guess he never heard of the 10th amendment, what an idiot!

That is classic! Where did you find that quote?





.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

But in this case, it's the state passing a law because they are tired of the federal not doing anything

The Fed rarely takes action until it's far too late. Too much politics are involved.

Think of the vast array of federal laws that were first state laws, the fed fought them. In the current day... think about medicinal marijuana, gay rights, gay marriage, the list goes on and on. Now skip back a few decades and think about civil rights in general. That shit didn't start up in the roots of Alabama, LOL.

How many laws does the federal government trumpet today that it originally fought? I bet that list would never end.

[Sly]

Oh I almost forgot... states rights, for the win.

[SEO Expert]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

That is classic! Where did you find that quote?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36778647..._house/page/2/

[VGeorgie]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

But in this case, it's the state passing a law because they are tired of the federal not doing anything

They don't because they don't want to. The dirty secret is that the cheap labor of undocumented workers alone offsets the added burden to the infrastructure. The cost of a lot of food you get from California (which is substantial for any American) is subsidized by the cheap cost of illegals. A good segment of the Los Angeles economy is driven by sales tax, goods, and services to undocumented aliens.

Everyone thinks this is a simple matter, but in fact remove the illegals and you'd immediately feel the effect in higher costs to business. This is why politicians don't really want to touch this problem. Do you really think these big food corporations want to see a clampdown on immigration?

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by JaneB

Nice quote from a group that thinks illegals have the same rights as US citizens.

As long as they don't step all over the rights of the actual US citizens in the process. That's my problem with it. I don't want to live somewhere where you can be walking down the street and get asked (not a request) by The Man "Papers please."

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

same with calis pot laws!

LEGALIZE IN NOVEMBER!!!

GO CALI!

I'm with you on this.

Smokers aren't profiled here though. Let's hope AZ follows through on that promise.

[MaDalton]

why don't you make all mexicans wear a yellow star on their clothes? or maybe in this case a yellow sombrero...

[Sly]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

why don't you make all mexicans wear a yellow star on their clothes? or maybe in this case a yellow sombrero...

They wouldn't follow that rule either!

[baddog]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

why don't you make all mexicans wear a yellow star on their clothes? or maybe in this case a yellow sombrero...

Because this is not Germany in the 40's

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

why don't you make all mexicans wear a yellow star on their clothes? or maybe in this case a yellow sombrero...

You got something against Mexicans?
You realize "Illegal Immigrant" applies to everyone not born in the US right?
That goes for WHITE Germans, Italians, Danish, French, British and everyone else on the planet.

Your post is proof that the profiling has already begun.

[Loryn]

Originally Posted by BestXXXPorn

Holy SHIT that is awesome, hahahahahahhah

And sad as it shows people have no fucking clue as to how this system of government is SUPPOSED to operate...

It's amazing how many people do not understand how our government is SUPPOSE to work. One law for New York is not going to work for CA or Florida. They are all different. Each state makes the laws that fit for that state. The executive branch should not be making 1 tell all law for the whole country. That is not how the system was set up...but thanks to so many clueless idiots the topic is coming up in the front so we can educate people on how it is suppose to be...

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by baddog

Because this is not Germany in the 40's

actually in the 40's most jews were already deported and dead

but if you make all hispanic looking people have their papers on them all them time - or get arrested if (god forbid) they might forget them at home - then you're not far from what Germany did to the jews.

[Gerco]

Hooray for AR.!

I mean, I grew up in North Dakota and I vividly remember all the problems we had from all those illegals crossing the boarder for our cheap prices. They would cross in buss loads, buy all our crap and do god knows what with it. This of course required us to restock our shelves with more stuff... it was a vicious circle.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

You got something against Mexicans?
You realize "Illegal Immigrant" applies to everyone not born in the US right?
That goes for WHITE Germans, Italians, Danish, French, British and everyone else on the planet.

Your post is proof that the profiling has already begun.

Especially the Germans.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

actually in the 40's most jews were already deported and dead

but if you make all hispanic looking people have their papers on them all them time - or get arrested if (god forbid) they might forget them at home - then you're not far from what Germany did to the jews.

Not even close.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

You got something against Mexicans?
You realize "Illegal Immigrant" applies to everyone not born in the US right?
That goes for WHITE Germans, Italians, Danish, French, British and everyone else on the planet.

Your post is proof that the profiling has already begun.

actually i don't understand what's going on there anyways - i don't know any other country where it's legal to be there without permit. when you enter the EU without visa or residency permit and they catch you, you are going to be arrested and deported. game over

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

but if you make all hispanic looking people have their papers on them all them time - or get arrested if (god forbid) they might forget them at home - then you're not far from what Germany did to the jews.

ya know the ignorance around here never ceases. My wifes grandmother told us stories of waving flags so they German soldiers didnt shoot her as a child crossing street to go get food or something, and she always said, when you see people compare America to what the nazis did realize they are ignorant and never actually went though it. She told us how all her childhood friends were killed etc... when we start shooting hispanic kids in the street then we will be nazis, your country is prolly harsher than we are!

if you people really understood the nazi stuff you wouldnt throw accusations like this around.

Amazing. America is nothing like Nazi germany, god damn some of you people reach for anything to throw at America when you dont like what is happening here.

heres some advice, go talk to people who went through nazi treatment and ask them if we treat people like that.

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by Sly

Oh I almost forgot... states rights, for the win.

Careful what you ask for, you just might get it.

The reason I say this is that there are plenty of states (offhand, I'd say 50 of them) that would very much like to have their own independent obscenity standard, their own policies with regard to violent video games, their own policies regarding what materials can and can't be transported across their state, etc. etc. etc.

(Yes, I know: each state has its own obscenity laws, but if they make their standard more restrictive than the Miller Test, then that standard is invalid. Just ask the state of Georgia, which is currently without an enforceable state obscenity law by virtue of the This That and The Other case....)

There are areas where the supremacy clause and the dormant commerce clause are very, very good things. There's also unintended consequences to consider: what happens if/when one of the states that borders Mexico, Canada, or a coastal state, passes a law that says "we aren't going to enforce our border at all. It's WIDE open.... come on in." ?

Granted, in this case, Arizona is arguably just saying "me too!" on the enforcement of existing federal laws, and that might prove the difference between this law and my hypothetical of a state opening its border. I haven't done compare/contrast on this new state law and the relevant federal statutes involved (I'll leave that to the courts), but IME, state legislators ALWAYS believe their laws are perfectly written and legally sound, even if/when the legislation in question is flawed to the core.

For those laughing off the notion and calling everybody who believes this statute has some potential Supremacy Clause related problems with it "idiots".... well, what can I say? Knowledge is not purely a function of intelligence, and you might not know as much about these things as you think.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

actually i don't understand what's going on there anyways - i don't know any other country where it's legal to be there without permit. when you enter the EU without visa or residency permit and they catch you, you are going to be arrested and deported. game over

It's the same here.
But it's one thing for an illegal to get caught if they're pulled over or whatever, and something else for police to ask every Hispanic person they see in Arizona for their "papers" to prove they are US Citizens.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by baddog

Not even close.

when even Jeb Bush and McCain are worried about anti hispanic feelings i dont think i'm that far off

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

. when you enter the EU without visa or residency permit and they catch you, you are going to be arrested and deported. game over

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

lol, man, you still did not get the point

but anyways, i got work to do

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

lol, man, you still did not get the point

as I said your country is harsher than we are, we try not to split families from kids etc, you guys arrest and deport.

some nazi shit dude, check your own backyard before pointing the finger.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by SEO Expert

"If every state had its own laws, we wouldn't be one country; we'd be 50 different countries," said Thomas Saenz, president and general counsel of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund.

Do you have a link for this? LMAOOOOOOOOO

Edit: read over the post

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36778647

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by JaneB

It is a crime to be in this country illegally, so it is not a state by state law. AZ is just the first state to actually made a bill on it and actually act on the law. I am disappointed so many people think AZ is bad for trying to fight illegal aliens.

who gives a shit what their saying lets just make sure it stays law phil gordan tried to hit up city councel they said no also theres provisions in the bill that protect it.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by VGeorgie

They don't because they don't want to. The dirty secret is that the cheap labor of undocumented workers alone offsets the added burden to the infrastructure. The cost of a lot of food you get from California (which is substantial for any American) is subsidized by the cheap cost of illegals. A good segment of the Los Angeles economy is driven by sales tax, goods, and services to undocumented aliens.

Everyone thinks this is a simple matter, but in fact remove the illegals and you'd immediately feel the effect in higher costs to business. This is why politicians don't really want to touch this problem. Do you really think these big food corporations want to see a clampdown on immigration?

2% of Illegal immigrants actually work on farms
over 750,000 illegal immigrants have anchor babies a year in the US
average cost of a birth about 10,000
you do the math
And thats not counting welfare
so yes we would really feel it, LMAO

[baddog]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

when even Jeb Bush and McCain are worried about anti hispanic feelings i dont think i'm that far off

I will be sure to mark this on my calendar as the one day you were in agreement with a Republican. Very selective, aren't you?

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

2% of Illegal immigrants actually work on farms
over 750,000 illegal immigrants have anchor babies a year in the US
average cost of a birth about 10,000
you do the math
And thats not counting welfare
so yes we would really feel it, LMAO

Where did those stats come from? I'd like to see a more detailed breakdown if they have it.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

2% of Illegal immigrants actually work on farms
over 750,000 illegal immigrants have anchor babies a year in the US
average cost of a birth about 10,000
you do the math
And thats not counting welfare
so yes we would really feel it, LMAO

I had to look it up

The nation's school system faces the economic burden of providing services to the millions of children born to illegal immigrants. In a 2004 United States General Accounting Office report, three states submitted their annual cost estimates of educating illegal children. The estimates provided ranged from 50 million dollars to 87.5 million in Pennsylvania and 932 million to 1.04 billion dollars in Texas.[i]

FAIR estimates there are currently more than 425,000 children born to illegal aliens each year. This figure is based on the crude birth rate of the total foreign-born population (33 births per 1000) and the size of the illegal alien population (13 million in 2008). In 1994, California paid for 74,987 deliveries to illegal alien mothers, at a total cost of $215.2 million (an average of $2,842 per delivery). Illegal alien mothers accounted for 36 percent of all Medi-Cal funded births in California that year and now count substantially more than half.

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServe...ecenters460 8

[VGeorgie]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

2% of Illegal immigrants actually work on farms
over 750,000 illegal immigrants have anchor babies a year in the US
average cost of a birth about 10,000
you do the math
And thats not counting welfare
so yes we would really feel it, LMAO

The vast bulk of these "statistics - many of them quoted from a Lou Dobbs show in 2006 and then repeated in endless emails - have been long debunked. Or found to have no or inflated facts backing them up to begin with.

This is a good place to start if you're really serious about having a well-rounded education on the subject:

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/cos...al-immigrants/

NONE of this means the US should turn a blind eye to others breaking the law, but the subsidy of the undocumented worker class as a way to keep down production costs has long been fact. Unavoidable reality.

If it were not the case, there is really no reason the government would not have acted sooner. It would be to their benefit. Instead, they are protecting corporate profits. Not that I'm against that, but it's the gist of the matter.

[VGeorgie]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Where did those stats come from? I'd like to see a more detailed breakdown if they have it.

Just the "2% work on farms" is a lot of baloney. First off, some of the livestock industry stats I've read have pegged it at 25-50%. An AP story just last year talked about how Vermont dairy farmers count on illegal immigrants to hold down costs - even though noting they are anything but "cheap" (they are cheaper than documented workers).

Second, farm work itself is only a small portion of the labor required to bring food from its origination to your table.

Third, the Arizona bill comes at a time when illegal immigration is on the downswing. This past year there was a drop of some 800,000 illegals. The reason: the US economy is down all around so they're not being hired.

In review: ILLEGAL ALIENS COME TO THE US BECAUSE BUSINESS HERE HIRES THEM. THEY ARE HIRED BECAUSE THEY ARE CHEAPER THAN LEGALIZED WORKERS. THIS SAVES FOOD CORPORATIONS HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS, IF NOT BILLIONS, OVERALL. EVEN THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION DOESN'T WANT TO STEP ON THOSE TOES.

Don't see how it could be any clearer than that.

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

actually in the 40's most jews were already deported and dead

but if you make all hispanic looking people have their papers on them all them time - or get arrested if (god forbid) they might forget them at home - then you're not far from what Germany did to the jews.

I'm sure you hear this all the time, but you're an idiot.


Also, glad this law is passed. You'll hardly find moronic liberals in this thread.

[VGeorgie]

Originally Posted by The Demon

Also, glad this law is passed.

Let's look at the law:

1. Federal law already makes it illegal to be in the US without documentation. It merely adds an Arizona statue that doesn't actually do anything Federal law doesn't already provide for.

2. The Arizona law only allows police to validate a person's documentation during the regular course of some other lawful investigation - a citation for jaywalking maybe, or responding to a domestic dispute at some apartment. It doesn't allow police to just stop people for looking Mexican.

3. The law STILL doesn't address the root issue, which is business hiring illegal immigrants.

Ron Reagan understand the complex issues involved when he pushed the immigration amnesty in '86. The man wasn't dumb. He was a very shrewd politician. In the end, other pieces of the law actually increased illegal immigration, but the overall intent was to strike a balance between the tax subsidy of illegals and the cost benefits to corporations (and hopefully the American public).

The Arizona law is just as useful as 2257 is to us. Politicians trying to make a name for themselves. In the end it won't make a lick of difference.

[Allison]

I think the obvious controversy with this law is the implementation and the costs for implementation as well:

Flaws:
-There are plenty of LEGAL residents of the US/AZ in AZ. Many of them have accents and are not white. What are the costs associated with wrongly arresting legal residents? What are the costs associated with all the lawsuits associated with that occurring?

-How come EVERYONE is not required to be carrying their proof of citizenship? Their social security card, birth certificate or what have you? That would then be fair game that anyone could be asked and not profiled. However, proof of citizenship is an important document that you don't want to have lost or stolen. So now Legal residents need to carry around very important, valuable, and private documentation that if lost or stolen is extremely difficult and costly to replace.

-What is this solving for? I live in AZ and have not been negatively impacted by anyone whether legal or illegal. Healthcare in AZ costs less then in other states that have less illegal immigrants. Whenever I go to the Dr. or hospital, I get in, it's not full of illegal immigrants (Actually, I'm pretty sure for the most part they'd prefer to get medical treatment in their own country). I have not met a single person who said they couldn't find a job b/c illegal immigrants were applying for the job they had. Maybe the only valid thing could be border drug violence, but this law does nothing with that, so I'm still at a loss.

[2012]

if we didn't give them a job they wouldn't be here

[The Demon]

-How come EVERYONE is not required to be carrying their proof of citizenship? Their social security card, birth certificate or what have you? That would then be fair game that anyone could be asked and not profiled. However, proof of citizenship is an important document that you don't want to have lost or stolen. So now Legal residents need to carry around very important, valuable, and private documentation that if lost or stolen is extremely difficult and costly to replace.

Because the flood of illegal immigrants consists primarily of Hispanics, therefore everyone shouldn't need to carry proof of citizenship. Flawed argument.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

Holy shit who came up with that term? anchor babies

anchor babies has been in use for very long time

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchor_babies

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by 2012

if we didn't give them a job they wouldn't be here

Or free health care, free food, and their children free citizenship....